Ep 249: The TikTok Algorithm
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SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello, welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me.
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl, that's me, Kayla.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, the TikTok algorithm.
SARAH AND KAYLA: Sounds Fake But Okay!
(theme music plays)
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: Live – Not live, but in person. But only for us.
SARAH: Not only are we in person, but we're sitting in the same chair.
KAYLA: Yeah, we couldn't find it in ourselves to bring an extra chair up from downstairs.
SARAH: And Kayla has a very wide chair.
KAYLA: I have one of those... why is it doing that? Okay, it's trying to back up my iPhone. I have one of those wide chairs that you can sit cross-legged on, so now we each have one cheek.
SARAH: You have a cheek and a half.
KAYLA: Yeah, I guess I would give it a solid cheek and a half.
SARAH: Perfect.
KAYLA: Here we are today.
SARAH: Here we are, podcasting, live and in concert from Boston.
KAYLA: It's actually Cambridge.
SARAH: I... but there is no fun way to say came... came... came to Bridge.
KAYLA: Come to Bridge.
SARAH: No, no.
KAYLA: Came... come to Bridge.
SARAH: Nope.
KAYLA: Anyway, we're together because book came out yesterday. Today for us is… Wednesday?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: What happened to my rock?
SARAH: That's not important.
KAYLA: Anyway, book came out yesterday, event is tomorrow. It already happened by the time you're listening, but for us it hasn't.
SARAH: I hope you all have received the book, have been enjoying reading the book. It's on backorder for some people.
KAYLA: Yeah, so if you haven't gotten it yet and you were trying to order it online or find it at your local bookstore, it might be on backorder right now. Our publisher told us it was too popular
SARAH: We’re just too popular
KAYLA: so they had to print more.
SARAH: Well, Kayla was like, oh my God, why is it on backorder? And I was like, I don't know, maybe we're too popular. And then Kayla was like, no, that can't be true. And then she emailed our publisher and they were like, yeah, you're too popular. So yeah, apologies.
KAYLA: I think probably on like Amazon and Barnes and Noble, it'll say out of stock. At most indie bookstores I've looked at, it's on backorder, so you can still order it. They just don't have it in stock.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So I'd recommend, as always, for other reasons anyway, always doing indie bookstores if you don't have it yet.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So apologies if you're like, I want it and you can't have it yet. That's why you should have pre-ordered.
SARAH: If it makes you feel any better, we went to sign some books yesterday and their shipment had been delayed, so we couldn't.
KAYLA: Well, we signed one.
SARAH: We signed exactly one book.
KAYLA: It was not their fault. They were lovely.
SARAH: No, it was not their fault.
KAYLA: Everyone go visit Trident Booksellers and Cafe, in Boston, they have, as of now, one signed copy. I don't know, when you're listening to this, if signed copies will still be available at the Strand. I'm not sure if we're only going to be signing the exact amount that we ordered or some extra. I'm not 100% sure. So you can go check and perhaps it will be true.
SARAH: Yeah.
SARAH: (from the future) Hi, this is Sarah from the future here with some bonus facts and figures. First of all, we are now post-event and I can tell you that there are, in fact, signed copies left over at the Strand. So we will link those in the thing, the show notes, description, whatever it is. We'll link that. The other thing that we completely forgot to mention is that we have a couple new merch items for the book. We have some lovely don't should… shenanigans and we have another thing that you can get as a shirt or a sweatshirt that is the first line of our book. So get a thing that I wrote on your clothes or something on our website, soundsfakepod.com/shop/ …I don't know, if you just go to the website, it'll just, you can find it. I believe in you. Okay, thank you. I believe in you. Okay, thank you.
SARAH: We do still have to do a podcast though this week.
KAYLA: I know, kind of crazy and upsetting.
SARAH: So Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: I love that we're not looking at each other because we like can't.
SARAH: No, we're sitting in the same chair and you're also on my bad eye side.
KAYLA: It's funny watching your bad eye with your contact
SARAH: Why
KAYLA: In it just makes it even more defined how bad it is. I feel like because I can see the line of your contact edge anyway.
SARAH: Okay. Wow. Thanks for that information.
KAYLA: I mean, I'm also incredibly close to you and I don't think you let most people be this close to you. So
SARAH: especially not on my left side because then it –
(kissing sound)
SARAH: don't, don't give me kiss, put kiss away.
KAYLA: Okay. For real though, today we're going to talk about the TikTok algorithm and specifically how it makes you gay.
SARAH: Yeah. I, this reminded me when you, when you brought this up, it reminded me of some like right winged
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SARAH: dudes who were like, the TikTok is showing naked women to our children. And look, this is what my feed looks like. It's like, yeah.
KAYLA: Okay. I saw that. I saw someone do that on Instagram. They were like my Instagram, whatever it's called
SARAH: discover
KAYLA: explore page.
SARAH: Explore page
KAYLA: They were like, it's all these naked women. Like, how are they doing this to children? And he like did a whole thread. And then a day later, he was like, it's come to my attention that not all people's feeds are like this. And everyone was like, yeah, man, you're just horny. It's okay. Just accept it.
SARAH: Yeah. That's just what makes us who you are. The feed gives you what you want to see.
KAYLA: That’s who you are. Yeah. So, so yeah, I think especially over the pandemic, by the way, this, I, this topic idea came from my roommates. I think, what was I saying? Oh. Yeah. Especially over the pandemic when TikTok was like getting even bigger.
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: I heard this from so many people that were saying like, TikTok made me realize I was bi or a lesbian. There's this woman I follow. I don't really watch her videos anymore, but I watched her videos on YouTube for a while and she had this like long-term boyfriend. It was this whole thing. And then all of a sudden, after the pandemic, she was like, I've been gay this whole time. And also my boyfriend never had a job and I bought him a car and he sucked. And I was like, what?
SARAH: Ugh you hate to see it
KAYLA: I was like, what do you mean? No one knew. Anyway. So yeah, I feel like there's just been an influx of people after TikTok that were like, oh shit.
SARAH: Yeah. Like my algorithm sent me to WLW TikTok and
KAYLA: yeah. Well, I was, I found an article because there's a lot of articles about this because it kept happening to people. Hold on. Got to find –
SARAH: Why didn't you open it in a different tab?
KAYLA: I think I did. And then I lost it. There's no way. Oh, it's this tab. I was confused because there was an ad for fantasy shirts. I guess that's what I want. So I found an article on Mashable about this. And it was basically kind of talking about like when you first join TikTok, you're kind of just put on quote unquote, straight TikTok
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: which is just like pet videos and dancing videos.
SARAH: And like, you know, you know what happened to me earlier today because I have two at times – We have three TikToks because the pod TikTok, but I have a second like BTS, K-pop TikTok
KAYLA: shocking
SARAH: but I don't really use the for you page on that one. I just post from it. And so earlier this morning I opened TikTok and I was like, what the fuck is up with my for you page?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, what is it doing? And then I realized I was on the wrong account. And so it didn't, it wasn't used to what I actually wanted to see this.
KAYLA: Sometimes I will be on the podcast account and not realize it. And I can honestly tell within three videos, I'll be like, something is wrong.
SARAH: Something is weird.
KAYLA: And then it's always like, I just know instantly. So yeah, she was basically talking about you go on to standard TikTok, like what is trend
SARAH: Trending, yeah
KAYLA: I guess, probably most trendy overall. And then, I mean, I'm sure a lot of us have kind of sussed out how the algorithm works by now, but the longer you watch a video, if you watch it the whole time, if you watch it multiple times, if you like it or save it, then the algorithm is like, oh, okay, you must like this video.
SARAH: Yeah. That's why sometimes if you hate watch something, you'll get more of it.
KAYLA: This happens to me all the time.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But there is a way, pro tip, if no one knew this, you can hard press a video and then click not interested.
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: I had to do this with this girl, Alex – Alexis Earl? She was this like influencer that's on the come up right now. And at first I was like, okay, interesting. And then I got sick of it because it started putting me on straight TikTok.
SARAH: Ah, yeah
KAYLA: So I had to keep being not interested. But then she would come up and I'd be like, but I am kind of interested. No, no, you can't. That also happened with, you know, you put, they put a movie on the top half and like slime video on the bottom half.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I kept getting too many of those. And I was like, it was all that was showing up. And I was like, I can't do this anymore.
SARAH: Yeah, that's fair.
KAYLA: Anyway, so to me, what I think happens, especially for queer people, and this kind of happened to me, like, I feel like TikTok was part of me realizing that I was by probably because I did end up just being on by TikTok. And I was like oh yeah, ally. And then I was like
SARAH: ally!
KAYLA: Because when you're watching TikTok, you're not really thinking about how long you're watching a video for
SARAH: No
KAYLA: or whether like, it's kind of subconscious whether you like, you know, double tap and then keep swiping or what you scroll past after a second and what you sit there and watch
SARAH: If you double tap, does that like it? I guess that makes sense. I always just hit the little heart.
KAYLA: What? That’s crazy. Wait, now I don't know if that's how let's check what's on my TikTok.
SARAH: I mean, it makes sense. That's how it is on Instagram.
KAYLA: Yeah. I guess I can still like that. I'm on our TikTok. Like, it's so subconscious, you're not really thinking about it.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And so I think what happens is like, you know, your subconscious knows you're gay.
SARAH: Yeah
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KAYLA: right? But you would maybe never seek out going online and typing in like
SARAH: gay content
KAYLA: gay video, like women in a relationship.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: because you don't think you are. That's not something that in the front of your mind is there. But then TikTok puts one video in front of you and they're like, hmm, would you like this? Let's try to like narrow down your algorithm for you.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And then you end up just watching the whole thing subconsciously.
SARAH: right
KAYLA: And TikTok's like, oh, okay, cool. And it just starts to slowly feeding you more and more. And you don't realize it until you're like, these are all I'm only getting.
SARAH:Until you're like, I am on gay TikTok.
KAYLA: Yeah. So I think it is just like a very subconscious thing.
SARAH: Yeah. I concur. And sometimes even just on my regular for you page, I'm like, I'm getting too much of one thing, like I need more variety.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so it's like, come on, give me. And so sometimes I'll like intentionally…
KAYLA: swipe past something?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's also interesting, because one of the topics that my cousin suggested we talk about on this podcast, which we might at some point, is the lesbian TikTok drama?
KAYLA: Oh. So much.
SARAH: And it's just so interesting hearing about it because like, I am not at all on that TikTok.
KAYLA: I was for a little bit and I hopped off somehow.
SARAH: And then they get there, these people who know so much about it and like the tea is spicy.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I was just like, wow, that is not a Tok that I'm on. I'm not really on any, I'm not on gay talk. I'm not on ace talk.
KAYLA: For me, it goes in waves. What kind of, I'm not on ace talk weirdly. Like it just, it just doesn't, sometimes I'll get them and I always like engage with it, but it just doesn't really show up.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But yeah, it is weird seeing what phases you go through of like what side of TikTok you're on. Like I know last night we finished the show physical 100
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: and all of us were like, how have we not seen this on TikTok at all? And then this morning, Perry, my roommate was like, I'm finally on it. Like I made it.
SARAH: I made it. Yeah.
KAYLA: So it's weird. Like and your phone definitely listens to you.
SARAH: Oh yeah your phone hears everything you say.
KAYLA: That's a whole other thing, but sometimes I talk about something and then all of a sudden I open it and I'm like, okay.
SARAH: Okay. You've been listening to me. Yeah. You fucking creeper.
KAYLA: Or it's just like the data, you know, you watch something on YouTube and then it shows up, whatever. Oh, the other thing I think is, stop smelling my giant Sharpie. We should sign books with giant Sharpie.
SARAH: No, it would bleed through so bad.
KAYLA: That’s true. The other thing that this woman talks about in this Mashable article is that in college for like a hot second, she was like, okay, maybe I could be queer. And she had a lesbian friend that was like, no, you're not.
SARAH: (gasps)
KAYLA: Like, you're just the type of girl that like leads actual queer women along. And she was like, oh, well, you must know best. Like you're gay.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I think that's kind of the nice thing about TikTok is that like it is a very personal experience.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: It's very insular.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And so you can kind of figure it out on your own
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: without any other external pressure, which is weird because it's social media.
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: So usually that's where all of the external pressure is.
SARAH: Exactly
KAYLA: But it lets you kind of do it on your own, kind of like test out your feelings on your own
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: and do it in such a slow way that you don't realize it for a long time. Like that's the experience it seems like a lot of people have is the kind of like dot, dot, dot, wait a second.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, why am I getting served these videos?
SARAH: Right. And I feel like it's different too, from especially Instagram, because Instagram is, yes, you have influencers and you have all these people, but you often follow and are followed by people you know.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so you are getting influenced by those people that you know, and you feel them watching you.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Whereas on TikTok, first of all, you don't have to post shit to be, you don't have to post shit to be deep in TikTok. And second of all, like you, you're not necessarily interacting a ton with people you know. You can be if you want, but it's, oh my God, it's Be Real Time.
KAYLA: I was not even listening to what you were saying.
SARAH: Yeah I know. realized you weren't listening, which is why I looked over.
KAYLA: Silence for Be Real Time. What if when someone's listening to this? Hold on. What if when someone's listening to this, their, oh, their Be Real goes off. That would be crazy. Anyway, what were you saying?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: (laughing) Okay.
SARAH: Oh, on TikTok, you can interact with people you know, but you don't, you certainly don't have to.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And whereas, you know, on something, especially like Instagram, it's like those, you're interacting with the people you know, and other people.
KAYLA: Yeah. So I also think like, okay, so all social media is fake to a certain extent, right?
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Like people are not posting their full and true selves.
(15:00)
SARAH: Certainly.
KAYLA: But I do think that TikTok is often more quote unquote realistic
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: than like an Instagram. I think like this is something that we talk about like at work a lot because I like work on like TikTok and Instagram
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: is that people like seeing real people. Like people are intrigued by people. They want to see people's real lives. And TikTok like capitalizes off of that. And they probably, you know, are boosting videos more that are like a day in a life, blah, blah, blah. And so I think it just gives you a better idea of what queer lives actually look like.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because on Instagram, it's like, okay, this is a picture of two queer women. Like, wow, they're hot. That's great. On TikTok, you're more likely to have like, here's how I realized like a someone's storytime of like, here's how I realized I was queer.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like, here's what my life looks like with my wife or whatever.
SARAH: Well, TikTok was built to be video based and Instagram that was added on after.
KAYLA: Right. So I feel like it's a more, and again, like, I understand that most of it is like, you know, a little bit fake, at least.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I do think it's a nice entry to see how queer lives are lived. If you don't have queer people in your life
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: or you have people like that annoying lesbian who was like, no, you're not queer. Like, yeah, I'm not going to talk to you about this. Like, I'm not going to let you in.
SARAH: There's only one person in this world who can tell you what you are.
KAYLA: Yes. And it's TikTok. Oh, yeah. So she then kind of talks about this article about kind of how, oh, yeah. So she says, so I just really like this quote. She says, but my TikTok-fueled bisexual awakening might actually speak less to the omnipotence of the app's algorithm and more to how – oh my god – heteronormativity is truly one hell of a drug. And then she kind of talks about like that experience in college. And then she says, the ubiquity of heteronormativity, even when unwittingly perpetrated by members of the queer community, is such an effective self-sustaining cycle. Aside from being met with queer gating, something I've since learned bi folks often experience, I had a hard time identifying my attraction to women as genuine attraction simply because it felt different to how I was attracted to men. And she talks about how women's sexuality is kind of defined by the validation you get from men
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: and that her attraction to women just feels different. And that kind of attraction just feels better suited to the self-discovery she was able to get through TikTok. Because I think it's kind of similar to what I was saying, that it can be more of a personal, slow thing
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: which is not typically how media portrays sexual attraction between women and men. And she says, the short form video format lends itself to a lightning bolt like jolts of soul-bearing nakedness with POV at camera angles bucking conventions of the male gaze, which entrenches the language of film and TV in heterosexual male desire. So again, like what we were saying, it's just the format of TikTok lends itself more to that. Because obviously people are making videos for the male gaze.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: People are doing that.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But it's easier to get away from that because it's self-made media. So if people don't want to do that, they're not doing it.
SARAH: You know, what’s really funny? The other day I saw a TikTok of someone who, she said that when she announced, she didn't really announce, but when people found out that she had a boyfriend, she lost like 75,000 followers.
KAYLA: Yes, I love her. Soupy time.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: I love her.
SARAH: But I was looking at her and I was like, but you look like you're for the lesbians.
KAYLA: Yeah she does
SARAH: You look like you're for the sapphics. And I was like, it's interesting that like so many men were following her
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: and being like, oh, fuck you.
KAYLA: When she is so queer coded.
SARAH: When she is such a queer coded person. I just thought that was interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah. I love her. Look her up. Soupy time. There's a couple like dancing videos she does that just do a real brain itch.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Like there's something, I don't know. She has a very expressive face. I love her.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: She's for me.
SARAH: She's for the sapphics.
KAYLA: Yeah. So also just a funny quote from this after this woman realized she was bi. She was like, I ran into my boyfriend to inform him of the news. And he goes, yeah, babe, I know. We all know. And then he kind of went through and told her like, yeah, you're like always talking about the women we see on the street. And you're like, watch videos of hot women for like a long time. Which again is just like the subconscious stuff you might not notice by yourself. Yeah. That like other people might notice, but it's not like I'm counting the seconds in my head of how long I'm looking at a woman.
SARAH: Right. You're not, you're not checking the ratio of videos you watch of women versus men versus…
KAYLA: Yeah. So it's just, yeah. It's that, it's that subconscious.
SARAH: Yeah. Sometimes I sort of end up on like, kind of …
(20:00)
SARAH: gay TikTok, but like never deep, never deep into it.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know.
SARAH: I think it's just like, they're like, ah, yes, you're queer. We get that. We're going to acknowledge you. We see you.
KAYLA: Yeah. I feel like I don't get too much like, I guess it like explicit queer content where it's like people talking about being queer.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But.
SARAH: Just queer people.
KAYLA: It's just queer people. And more often women, like I see far more women.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Than men in general, but I think more women use the app in general than men.
SARAH: Hm.
KAYLA: If I remember correctly, I don't, I don't know. Oh, kind of going back to what I was saying earlier about like, you're not going to sit there and search up like gay women, but it just kind of comes to you. I think it's, it's kind of doing a lot of work to like make up for the lack of representation there is in like mass media or traditional media.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because obviously to make you know, a movie, a TV show, traditional media, a lot of money has to go behind that.
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: People have to sign off on it. They have to know that there's going to be an audience out there. And so there's like all this
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: you know, politics about what's getting made. And obviously we've talked a lot about, you know, representation of aspec people and queer people in general, you know, like Netflix canceling all of their lesbian shows
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: but they have all like gay male shows. And so I think that is the really, really nice thing about a thing like TikTok or even YouTube or Instagram is that because it's self-made…
SARAH: It's grassroots.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's grassroots. It, you know, costs, if you're like a high end creator, it costs a little bit of money to create maybe
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: but like anyone with a phone and internet connection can ostensibly upload. Obviously there are barriers there if you don't have an internet connection, if you don't have like a high tech and a phone, but like it really is grassroots. The barrier to entry is so much lower, which is I think why like mediums like podcasting too that you find or like comics and stuff like that
SARAH:Yeah
KAYLA: you find more queer representation because it's just easier to make. And so it kind of not makes up for the lack of representation, but it kind of like fills in the gap almost.
SARAH: It fills in those gaps, yeah
KAYLA: And again, it's like, it's real people.
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: It's not, you know, like a story that someone put together that's going to be imbued with stereotypes or like distasteful things or like
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: a straight person playing a trans or like a cis person playing a trans person.
SARAH: You don't have 12 people at the studio who are like, well, we need to do this and we need to do that.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And then, and then five producers who are like, well, we need to do this. And then like, you're not going through that many people.
KAYLA: Yeah. And obviously, again, it's not perfect. Like these are real people, so they're going to make mistakes.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: They're not going to be like, maybe the best representation, but there is at least the –
SARAH: it's honest.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Or as honest as the internet can be.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And there's more like availability for diversity.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: In a way I get you could also then get into like, is the TikTok algorithm racist, like you see white people far more than you see Black people like hitting the for you page and like getting boosted and stuff like that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So then there's obviously those issues, but at least the like, ideally, it would then give you more opportunity to see a variety of different stories and lifestyles.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Sarah?
SARAH: Yeah?
KAYLA: Has TikTok made you gay?
SARAH: No, I don't think it's made me gay. Although one time I saw a TikTok that was a K-pop girl group that I did not know.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: And it was like a fan cam of one of them. And I commented, I was like, I don't go here, but I agree. And sometimes I still think about her.
KAYLA: (laughing) Interesting. I do think TikTok made me a little gay.
SARAH: That's fair.
KAYLA: Like I do think it helped kind of push that realization along for me.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because I did like, I got on like bi and queer woman TikTok, and I just saw all of these people living these lives. And I was like, I could see me doing that, like in like an alternate reality or like a, you know, if my life had taken a different path.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I was like, this, this could be me, I think.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And also, as you all have heard, I'm always like, women are more attractive than men. And then my TikTok was like, you can't just say that.
SARAH: You can’t just say that
KAYLA: People are making videos and they were like
SARAH: and then not expect us to at least give you gay shit.
KAYLA: Yeah. They're like, I love the discord comments of people being like, yeah, we all knew. We were like, Kayla, what? You know, we were just waiting for you.
SARAH: I saw a post recently of someone who was like pretending to be gay
(25:00)
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: and then talking about how ugly the vaginas are. And I was like, here's the thing. vaginas are ugly.
KAYLA: But you have once you're allowed to say that.
SARAH: And I can say that. And it's just like, but then people were like, why would you like go into all this effort to be like, oh no, like I'm, I'm, I think it was a woman. I think it was being like, oh, like a gay woman. And then they were, they were like, oh no, but that's like disgusting.
KAYLA: Like a gay woman pretending to be a gay man or a straight woman pretending to be a gay woman?
SARAH: No a straight woman pretending to be a gay woman. And he was like, oh my God, that's disgusting. And it's like, what was the point of it?
KAYLA: I don’t get it. Is that supposed to be like funny?
SARAH: I don't know. Cause like, and people were like, why would you like what? Like you literally have that. Like what, what is the point of this?
KAYLA: Because I can understand. Cause I've seen people do this. Like there is a lot of discourse about like the way gay men treat women in general, kind of like in both an objectifying way and on a ooh icky like period gross vagina gross.
SARAH: I actually saw something recently about a trans woman who was doing that.
KAYLA: Yes. There is a lot of discourse about that as well about like
SARAH: oh my God, ew tampons. Like you,
KAYLA: You have a period?
SARAH: you do this and it's like, it's
KAYLA: okay. You're a girlie. What are you doing? yeah, I have seen a lot of that discourse.
SARAH: It's like, what are you doing? It's just people like trying to, they know they'll go viral for it, but it's like at what fucking cost because now trans women and cis women are against you. KAYLA: So like what was the point?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: My favorite, there's this woman named Dylan on TikTok.
SARAH: I love Dylan Mulvaney.
KAYLA: I love her. But when she was first starting her days of girlhood, she was like, I'm going to start like putting tampons in my purse.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And she was like giving them to people in the street. And it was so cute.
SARAH: Like that's the, that's the right way to do it. Because she was like, I want to support other women by like being prepared.
KAYLA: By being prepared
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And it's especially, I can imagine it's a very affirming thing of like a woman coming up to you, seeing you as a woman and being like, well, as a woman, you must have this. Cause all women carry that.
SARAH: Yeah. I don't.
KAYLA: That seems like you.
SARAH: It seems like a me problem.
KAYLA: I also, I mean, it depends. I'm just lazy. So I guess I also don't, I'm a bad woman.
SARAH: Rip
KAYLA: What you going to do? Yeah. So I mean, yeah, it's, there's a bad side to the TikTok algorithm as well of just queer drama, like the lesbian relationship drama and the discourse that you find anywhere online.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I can imagine that's intimidating for people that are new to the queer community if they accidentally get shuffled to that side of TikTok. And then they're like,
SARAH: Help me
KAYLA: Excuse me. But I also think, I think that the nice thing about TikTok, and I know this is like a repeating of me saying that like it's videos and it's honest and you can see people's real lives, but like, I think that's just so much more helpful than a place like Twitter or like Reddit or like even discord or something where people are often just getting into like discourse or just talking and you can't see like, okay, so how does this affect your everyday life?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like it, it makes it very online in a way
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: that isn't helpful if you are like, find out through online that you're queer and then you're like, okay, well now what do I do?
SARAH: Right. Well, and I feel like with like Twitter, sometimes you get on Twitter and it's like, everyone is talking about something.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And it's like, you figure out what that something is and you figure out what's going on. And that's just a little bit harder for that to happen on TikTok because of the video format.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like if everyone is like talking about something, it's like, well, at least you'll probably be able to figure it. They're probably stitching it or dueting it or like
KAYLA: It references a paper trail
SARAH: there's a paper trail. So I feel like that's just also just a way for it to be less, overwhelming to be, to be faced with a bunch of new information. It's like, well, you can at least figure out what it is. Yeah.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: I love getting on Twitter and everyone's talking about people being assholes, but like none of the people being assholes is on my feed, which is great. Cause it means I've curated my feed well, but then I have to like figure out what people were doing that people are mad about.
KAYLA: I had to – I don't know if I blocked him or muted it. I don't remember. I either blocked or muted Elon Musk because he did the thing where he made the Twitter engineers boost all of his tweets by like a thousand percent or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because he was mad that no one was engaging with him.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So then he started showing up on my feed a ton, which he never has before. I was like, I don't want you – to mute him or block him. I don't know.
SARAH: You bitch. No one likes you.
KAYLA: Yeah. I was like, I don't want you. Anyway, this has been TikTok. Go follow our TikTok.
SARAH: @soundsfakepod.
KAYLA: So far we've only posted one, but I'm posting one today. So that means it will already be a thing where you are in the future.
SARAH: And we're probably going to have a third one, right?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So follow our TikTok.
(30:00)
KAYLA: Yep. Go see us be in the streets of Boston talking to strangers.
SARAH: So true. We're so brave.
KAYLA: Well, one of us is brave.
SARAH: Kayla's so brave.
KAYLA: And Sarah was there.
SARAH: I was there. And he's… there.
SARAH: I was there.
KAYLA: Yeah. Do you have anything else to share?
SARAH: No, I just think TikTok is a very revealing place for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's very interesting. There's a lot of bad things that can come from it, but also a lot of good. And it's just, I think it's a very interesting study in the human condition.
SARAH: Welcome to the internet.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Everything is bad and everything is good and everything is also value neutral. Welcome to the internet. Take a look around.
KAYLA: Sorry Bagel.
SARAH: Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. This is going to be rough on Bagel.
KAYLA: When you get to this episode in like a month.
SARAH: Yeah. RIP to Bagel.
KAYLA: RIP to Bagel's wrist. Everyone pray.
SARAH: RIP to our beloved transcriber Bagel.
KAYLA: They injured their wrists in the line of duty.
SARAH: I'm so sorry. Anyway, what should our poll be this week?
KAYLA: Did TikTok make you gay?
SARAH: That's a great question.
KAYLA: I'm going to write it down on my sticky note.
(primal scream)
SARAH: Oh my god.
SARAH: You're gay. You're gay.
KAYLA: You're a girly pop.
SARAH: Wonderful. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice this week?
KAYLA: Oh, my beef is that I'm just very sleepy. I feel like we've just been on the go this week.
SARAH: Just some girlies on the go.
KAYLA: And I usually have more time for rest.
SARAH: For big sleepies.
KAYLA: For big sleepies. I'm just very tired. But Juice's book came out.
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: I feel like I handled that as best I could.
SARAH: Kayla was like, I'm so stressed out and nervous. How are you? And I'm like, fine.
KAYLA: Sarah felt fine. Yesterday, I was just, I like, you know, when you're feeling, you don't know, I'm asking them, you know, when you're feeling so much that you like, can't even say what emotion you're feeling? Has this ever happened to you?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: What, you think I don't have emotions?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: I’ve never felt an emotion
KAYLA: that was, that was me yesterday. I was like, I'm happy and I'm sad and I'm stressed. And I'm, I was just all the things and Sarah was nothing. So I had both of our –
SARAH: Yeah you had double
KAYLA: I think that was the problem is I had two persons worth of emotions, but no, it's been good so far and hopefully Thursday is okay.
SARAH: Yup. Yup. My beef, my beef is I just dislike living out of a suitcase. I feel like my suitcase exploded in Kayla's house.
KAYLA: It did. It was wild.
SARAH: and now I have to put it back together to go to New York.
KAYLA: And she bought things while she was here. So it's even worse.
SARAH: Silly, silly. Yeah, I just really, I dislike the disruption of my, of my schedule, my schedule, my, my rituals. I don't like those to be disrupted.
KAYLA: Me either.
SARAH: How neurodivergent of us.
KAYLA: Mm, yeah
SARAH: My juice also is book things, book happening, book coming out. it's also been nice staying with Kayla and her roommates because, they have forced me to have human interaction.
KAYLA: Yeah. We forced Sarah out of the house. It is, this is the longest we've spent together since college. I think. Yeah.
SARAH: It's been very nice. Weird. Yep. That's it. You can tell us about your beef, your juice, how much you love our book, how much you are recommending our book to all of your friends.
KAYLA: Go review it. If you've bought it anywhere.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: go to Goodreads or whatever, or the website you bought it from and give it a nice review or else.
SARAH: Give it a nice review. If you have bad things to say
KAYLA: keep it to yourself.
SARAH: I mean, we can't stop you, but you know
KAYLA: but I will cry.
SARAH: That's true. we'll both cry and that would be sad.
KAYLA: You think I'm kidding.
SARAH: No one here is kidding.
KAYLA: No one's kidding. We'll cry.
SARAH: anyway, soundsfakepod. That's where we are. All the places, including tik tok, slash book, slash book. We also have a Patreon.com also /soundsfakepod. We have some new $2 patrons. Thank you. We've got Andrea Smith, Ayla Walker, and Jammers Williams. Jammers.
KAYLA: That's a good one.
SARAH: So lovely.
KAYLA: I enjoyed it
SARAH: Thank you to all of you for your contributions.
KAYLA: Thanks for your dollars
SARAH: You're so nice. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Jolly Lizbert, Julianne, Kathryn Bailey, and Kelly. Oh, oh, oh geez.
KAYLA: Kelly, Kelly. I don't usually see Sarah do this part. She’s got a lot of color combinations going on.
SARAH: Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Cass who would like to promote using correct pronouns for everyone. CinnamonToastPunch who would like to promote Rainy Walks with Friends and Splashing in Puddles. David Jay who would like to promote Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Marie Brown, and David Nurse who would like to manifest. Whoa, no. David Nurse would like to promote buying our book. David and Karissa would like to promote manifesting that all high school seniors get into the college they desire. Our other, are these tens? Our other $10 patrons are Elle Bitter, JB, my aunt Jeannie, Maggie Capalbo, Martin Chiesl, Mattie, Nathan Lisch, Potater, Purple Hayes, Rosie Costello, Barefoot Backpacker, SongofStorm, The Steve, Zirklteo, Arcnes, Alyson, Ari K, and Benjamin Ybarra. Our $15 patrons are Andrew Hillum who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Click for Caroline who would like to promote Ace of Hearts, Dia Chappell who would like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, Hector Murillo who would like to promote Friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, John Young who would like to promote our book, I guess, Keziah Root who would like to promote people who come into your life first of all time and just when you need them like our book.
KAYLA: No, my phone is trying to back up!
SARAH: Your phone’s trying to back up again. Keziah Root who would like to promote people who come into your life. No, I already said that. Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote KateMaggartart.com, and Sara Jones who is @eternalloli everywhere. Our $20 patrons are Sabrina Hauck who would like to promote Merry Christmas from our book, and your parents, and Dragonfly who would like to promote buying our book. Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears but not together, sad.
KAYLA: Oh, cry. Until then, take good care of your cows.
SARAH: Teach them to read so they can read our book.
KAYLA: Yes.
(36:56)