Ep 69: MicroACEgressions

Sarah: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an AroAce girl, I'm Sarah, that's me-

Kayla: And a demistraight girl, that's me, Kayla-

Sarah: ... talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.

Kayla: On today's episode, microacegressions.

Sarah: Sounds fake, but okay.

Kayla: Sounds fake, but okay.

Sarah: Welcome back to the pod.

Kayla: Ah!

Sarah: You're the worst.

Kayla: I have nothing to say there still.

Sarah: You need to come up with something.

Kayla: Everyone go vote on what I should say.

Sarah: Kayla, what are we talking about this week?

Kayla: Today we're talking about what I have decided to call microacegressions.

Sarah: Which is not your best pun, but also not your worst.

Kayla: I've done worse.

Sarah: I made a really, really bad pun when we were watching Zombieland last night.

Kayla: I don't remember what it was, but I remember it was bad.

Sarah: It was so bad. It was Krista for Columbus.

Kayla: Oh, that was really bad.

Sarah: Oh, it was so good.

Kayla: Anyway, it was bad.

Sarah: If you know, Zombieland-

Kayla: You probably won't get it 'cause it's so bad. Okay. Anyway, that was a good movie. So basically, I caution to call these things that we're going to be talking about truly microaggressions. But also basically what I'm talking about is little things that happen in life or little ways that people talk about things that are slightly Aphobic. When we did our advice episode two episodes ago, one of the questions was how to correct your language in the same way that you would for non-binary people by saying they and them. What's the similar way to do that for ace people? And Sarah talked a little bit about things she thought, and I was like, I'm going to save my thoughts, because I wanted to do this episode. So basically, I have some instances that happened in my life that I think are good examples of what I'm talking about.

Sarah: Yeah. What? If you hear weird noises in the background-

Kayla: The extra people in our house.

Sarah: Because we're currently in a polar vortex here in the United States of America.

Kayla: Well, really it's the Midwest that's getting the worst of it.

Sarah: Yeah. But it's really the whole country. We've had our second day off of school in a row, which never happens.

Kayla: For our university, this is the third day off of school for cold or snow in 50 years. It's only happened three times in the last 50 years.

Sarah: Yeah. And we've had two in a row. And some of our pipes froze, and our toilets won't flush.

Kayla: It's just a wild day.

Sarah: And so they're trying to fix it.

Kayla: It's a wild day in our house.

Sarah: And we had to turn temperature down, because there was a fire. There was a natural gas fire.

Kayla: Is that why we had to turn them down?

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: That's why they sent that emergency line? Oh, my lord.

Sarah: Because they were afraid that if people kept it too high, there would've been heat that would've had to be cut off completely in some areas. And so they were like, "You got to turn it down."

Kayla: Oh, my God.

Sarah: Luckily, my room is warm. We have a candle lit.

Kayla: Mm-hmm. It's a very romantic picture on our Twitter from when we're recording this.

Sarah: It's romantic.

Kayla: It is shaped like vanilla. No, it's scented like vanilla.

Sarah: Oh, my God, how are you alive?

Kayla: But anyway, that's a very long winded way to say-

Sarah: It's cold.

Kayla: ... it's cold out. And so there might be weird background noise.

Sarah: It's negative six maybe right now, without windchill.

Kayla: No, it's negative... Oh, it's actually only zero degrees.

Sarah: Oh. Which is like what? Negative 20 Celsius?

Kayla: Yeah. Around there. It's pretty bad.

Sarah: It was pretty cold, though. I was out for two seconds.

Kayla: Actually, zero degrees is really not bad right now.

Sarah: Oh, it's like warm.

Kayla: And it's been sunny.

Sarah: We know. Anyway. Onto what?

Kayla: I'm sorry that I love the sun.

Sarah: Delete the sun.

Kayla: No, don't. I need it.

Sarah: But it's a funny meme. Okay. Anyway. Long-winded way to say sorry for the background noises that you probably won't even hear.

Kayla: Yeah. Yeah. Classic. Where should I start?

Sarah: I don't know. This is, for once, this is your topic, not mine.

Kayla: I know. This is mine. All right. So I guess where I'll start is something that happened in my life a couple months ago. And I went back and forth about whether I wanted to talk about it on the podcast, but it's kind of what got me thinking about this and the way people talk about other people's sexualities and stuff. And it was also a big moment in my sexuality, I guess, or the first time I had experienced something like this. And Sarah got to witness it.

Sarah: I sure did.

Kayla: Very up close and personal. So yeah, I started dating someone two months ago-ish. And it's someone that we're on the quidditch team with. So we have a lot of mutual friends. We're in the same friend group and stuff, so it was very public, I guess when we started dating. The team likes to have gossip and everything. So basically, we are having a girls-guys night, and my now boy-

Sarah: A girl's night and a guy's night.

Kayla: Yeah. Separately.

Sarah: Separately.

Kayla: And so my-

Sarah: Which is very binary, we know.

Kayla: Yeah, we can get into that maybe another time. 'Cause I have some thoughts about it, but especially for a sport that has... Anyway. Anyway, not the time. So my boyfriend now was over there and one of the guys was talking to him about how things were going or whatever. And he was like, "Well, you know she's demisexual. Right?" And my boyfriend was like, "Yeah, I know." And the other guy was like, "Well, you know what that means. Right?" And he was like, "Yeah, I know. I get it."

And then, later my boyfriend was telling me that this has had happened. And it turns out it was not malicious. The other guy actually wanted to know if he had just had listened to this podcast and that's where he was going with it. But I had never been confronted with someone else talking about my sexuality without me being there before. And in a way that to me came off as like, "Well, you know she's demisexual. Right?" Like, "There's something wrong with her." Which obviously was a big jump for me to make that someone-

Sarah: It was a big one. You came in my room. You were very upset, and I didn't know what to tell you. Because I got why you were reacting so strongly. But also I was like, I wouldn't personally be reacting this strongly in this situation.

Kayla: Right. It had been a weird day, and I'm someone that's very sensitive to what other people say about me in the first place.

Sarah: No.

Kayla: Therapy. So I stormed into Sarah's room. I was at a different building close to where we live. And I had sped-walked home, hyperventilating, and I had slammed the door to our house.

Sarah: You slammed the door. I had been-

Kayla: The house-

Sarah: I had been sleeping. And I woke up when you slammed the door.

Kayla: The house shook. I ran up to Sarah's room and was just staring at her hyperventilating, sobbing.

Sarah: I'm half awake.

Kayla: She was just laying there like, "What?" So not the reaction as strong as I should have had. But also, I had never experienced anyone else needing to have a personal stake in my sexuality. And to me, the only people my sexuality should really matter to is me and whoever I'm dating. And then, that should be it. So it was very weird to hear other people trying to have a stake in it and having opinions about my dating life based on it. So I don't know. That was not as big as it needed to have been, probably. It was bigger than it should have been.

Sarah: Yeah. You keep saying that wrong.

Kayla: Whatever. It's bigger than it should have been. But also, it was interesting for me, since I don't usually confront my sexuality at all outside of this podcast. And I've started-

Sarah: And you only do it because of this podcast.

Kayla: Right. And I feel like since then I've confronted it more. Anyway, I don't know if any of that makes sense, but I thought I would share it.

Sarah: It was just the first time that it really slapped you in the face that this is a thing that other people can and may talk about, in regards to you.

Kayla: Yeah, I think, yeah. 'Cause I had previously not thought of it too much as part of my identity. But that kind of shoved it in as like, "No, this has to be part of your identity now." Like you can't just have it a little bit, and then not. You know?

Sarah: Yeah. And I guess that's something I've never really thought about is I know that other people have talked about my sexuality without me being present, because there are people who know about my sexuality-

Kayla: That you haven't told.

Sarah: ... I haven't told. And so I just know that. And so it doesn't bother me that much. But I also have a different relationship to my sexuality, because I've had more time just with me and my sexuality hanging out.

Kayla: Yeah, just to chill. Yeah.

Sarah: Whereas you're kind of uncovering and realizing you were demi was a fairly public thing. Because it happened on this podcast.

Kayla: Yeah. I guess I've never thought about that is... Yeah. I've never just had it for me.

Sarah: And I think sometimes we forget how public this podcast is. Because especially those early episodes, we didn't have that many listeners. And when we're recording it, we are both just sitting here in my room, staring at each other with this candle. But I think especially now that we have the discord and stuff, and we're having a lot of interaction with people who listen, it's becoming more apparent to us, the reach of the podcast. And so it's just something that we maybe think about differently now.

Kayla: Yeah. And I think definitely that...

Sarah: This is turning into not what this podcast was supposed to be about, but it sure is.

Kayla: I think it's interesting, though. But I think even since the two weeks we've had the discord, demisexuality has even now become a bigger part of my identity. Because I still struggle with feeling straight in queer places and feeling queer in straight places. But even recently that started to change. And I've started to identify more in all spaces as more queer.

Sarah: I've noticed that.

Kayla: The other day, one of our friends was like, "You're straight." And I was like, "No, I'm not. Like, don't say that." So yeah, I think just being able to interact with other people like me who I... It's solidified that identity more. So it's been interesting.

Sarah: Yeah. Microacegressions. Where were we?

Kayla: Anyway, so there was a couple instances that I've noticed past... And we had an email and it's the one email we haven't responded to. So this person, it probably is not applicable to this person's life anymore.

Sarah: Good.

Kayla: But also, I didn't know how to... Anyway, so this person emailed in was saying that they're in a Spanish class and-

Sarah: Oh, this is an old email.

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, no, I'm sorry.

Kayla: Well, 'cause I didn't know how to. Because then I was like, "Oh, maybe we'll mention this in an episode." So I'm very sorry, email. They were basically saying, "I'm in a Spanish class and we have these exercises to practice writing in Spanish. Like, 'Oh, if you could have a celebrity girlfriend or boyfriend, who would it be? Write a letter to whoever with ideal traits of your made-up significant other.'" Blah, blah, blah. And this person was basically, she doesn't mean for these things to be offensive or anything, but it bothers me. And I don't-

Sarah: It's very hetero. Yeah.

Kayla: ... know how to breach that.

Sarah: Yeah. And I can get why that would be a good exercise when learning a language. 'Cause it's forcing you to use adjectives and-

Kayla: Use all these things that you're learning.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: But there are more thoughtful ways to do it.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: And I think what's really hard about this in other situations that I have is that people truly just don't know. They don't even stop to think about, "Oh, dating and sex might not apply to other people."

Sarah: Or even just they don't think about the fact that people's ideal significant other might be the same gender as them or that sort of thing.

Kayla: Right. And I think we've gotten to a place now where that's starting to be more in language. People make sure to say, "Oh, do you have a girlfriend or boyfriend? Or do you have a partner?"

Sarah: Do you have a partner? Yeah.

Kayla: I've recently wanted to start using the word partner.

Sarah: To me, the one thing with the word partner is that it sounds more serious than boyfriend or girlfriend. When I think of partner, I think of you've been together for a long time. It's maybe something more like a marriage.

Kayla: My one thing with it, though, is it is gender neutral.

Sarah: It is. Which is good.

Kayla: Because my one feminist professor uses the word partner. And then I was like, "Oh, what gender?" And then, she mentioned she used the word "he." And I was like, huh, I wonder why she's using that word.

Sarah: 'Cause it's gender neutral.

Kayla: Because it's gender neutral sort of thing. Anyway, that's just a musing I've been having recently.

Sarah: Okay.

Kayla: But yeah, so it-

Sarah: My boo.

Kayla: Ew, that's disgusting.

Sarah: Hey.

Kayla: Ew. Stop. Don't. So I think people are... Stop singing at me softly.

Sarah: (singing). Okay, sorry. Continue.

Kayla: Anyway, so I think people are starting to get better about that. But since so many people don't even know asexuality is a thing, it's just they have no idea.

Sarah: And if they don't know what it is, you can't expect them to consider us. So we have to let them know we exist. That's always so much easier said than done.

Kayla: Oh, you know, have to have your hour lecture. Another one-

Sarah: Prepare a PowerPoint. Maybe even a Prezi.

Kayla: My god, a whole Prezi. We should make a Prezi, and then make it public, so people can just like... Be like, "Here. Here's a template you can use."

Sarah: Oh, my god.

Kayla: For a public service.

Sarah: Why a Prezi, though?

Kayla: You said it, "Maybe even a Prezi." It's just so complex that you need all those moving parts.

Sarah: You really do.

Kayla: Another one that was kind of similar was I was in a psych class last semester. We had to run our own research projects, and they're really small. We just used the 20 other people in our class. But this one girl did a research project where, basically, she had half the class come into the room and fill out the survey about... It was basically you had to weigh the pros and cons of an open versus closed relationship. And she was trying to figure out... So the other half of the class came in, and she was playing a sexual song. And then she had people weigh the options or whatever.

And so her hypothesis was like, "Oh, you find people with sex, and they're going to go more towards an open relationship or something." I don't know. I didn't explain it very well, but that doesn't really matter. So at the end of the class, we had to give presentations to the whole class about, "Here's what I found. Here was what my research project was about." Blah, blah, blah. And basically, so she was describing it in the beginning why she wanted to research this. And she was like, "Sex is something that affects us all. We all come from sex. We're all going to have sex." Blah, blah, blah.

Sarah: The first two are correct.

Kayla: But literally-

Sarah: The third one is not.

Kayla: So I was looking down while this... Because all these presentations were super boring. So I was kind of just looking at my hands I remember, and not really paying attention. And then, she said that, and I remember looking up. Because I was just like, it kind of just hit me. That's very interesting. The kid I was sitting next to looked at me, like, "Hey."

Sarah: What?

Kayla: "And?" But I remember just looking up and being like, "Hm."

Sarah: Not true.

Kayla: That's a very heavy statement to make.

Sarah: It is.

Kayla: That like, "Oh, we're all just going to have sex."

Sarah: And even the concept that we all came from sex. Listen, artificial insemination is-

Kayla: It's happening.

Sarah: It's happening.

Kayla: Yeah. 'Cause that's not, yeah. Sexual acts have to be done at some point to get sperm, I guess.

Sarah: It depends on how you define a sexual act, too.

Kayla: Well, yeah. I mean get, yeah. So no.

Sarah: Anyway...

Kayla: She's wrong on all counts. And then, the one other thing that I noticed, so this feminist class I'm taking, we had... Our first day, she was kind of just laying out vocab and stuff. And so she was explaining the difference between sex and gender for people, because some people-

Sarah: Don't know.

Kayla: ... haven't had exposure to that. And then, she was also talking about sexuality. And there was a list of different sexualities and ace wasn't on there. And I was just like, "Hm." I looked at it and it was like bi, pan, et cetera. And I was like, "We're the et cetera."

Sarah: Et cetera. That's us. Yeah.

Kayla: Yeah. And later in the class, I've mentioned sexuality a couple times in the class, just because it's been pertinent to the discussion. Some things we were talking about. And so she knows now. So I don't know. I was just kind of like, "Hm." Even here. Like, "Nah."

Sarah: Yeah. And it sucks, 'cause there's a certain burden that comes with being the educator in that situation. And I said this a bunch of times, we are going to do an episode about this. It is on my list of things to do. I don't remember when we scheduled it. But the idea that it is your duty to explain can get fucking exhausting.

Kayla: Yeah. Well, 'cause-

Sarah: And tired.

Kayla: In this class, I think what I had actually... We were talking about just intersexuality, and the issues of having multiple identities that kind of mesh together and get confused. So I think I had actually been talking about this thing of feeling queer in some places and feeling straight in other places. So I had to start this by explaining what demisexuality was. And I kind of started it.

I was like, "So this is kind of complicated. I don't know, I'm just going to whatever." And it was a very weird... I didn't know where to start with these people of what... Because then, I had to... And our teacher had mentioned briefly, she's like, "I learned about this in grad school, how people are now... We talked about this a lot in grad school, people separating romantic and sexual attraction." And I was like, "Yes."

Sarah: Yes.

Kayla: We're starting somewhere. She knows that. But-

Sarah: She learned it in grad school.

Kayla: But it was hard, because I didn't even know where to start with people to talk about this issue.

Sarah: And you don't know how much they know. And especially if it's in front of a group, it's like they all have different varying levels of understanding.

Kayla: Yeah. And also, I know for a fact that some of the people in the class are gay, because they had talked about it. And then, I was like, well also, how much do I want to talk about this because of gatekeeping. I know no one in the middle of a class discussion is going to stand up and tell me, "No." But they could think it.

Sarah: Gay-tekeeping.

Kayla: Nope. Nope.

Sarah: So I guess that kind of leads to the question of microaggressions, as just a whole, they don't always have to be intentional.

Kayla: Oh, they usually aren't, I don't think.

Sarah: And they're usually not. But I guess the fact that they're not intentional is sometimes it's almost worse, because it's like-

Kayla: How do you address that?

Sarah: Yeah. It's just like I'm just being ignored, rather than someone is saying, "You're horrible." You know?

Kayla: Yeah. Because you can make policies in a workplace or in a classroom against someone saying something openly homophobic, or aphobic, or whatever. You can physically know where the line is for that, basically. Or more easily know where the line is for that. But how do you know where to draw the line on microaggressions? How do you punish someone for a microaggression, if oftentimes they are unintentional. Or other people who they don't affect aren't even going to notice that they're happening.

Sarah: Yeah. And also, just a point of discussion with microaggressions in general is that some people are like, "Well, why does it matter? There are bigger issues at hand." And it's like, "That's true. But microaggressions do impact people." And if a little baby ace is going through their life constantly seeing these things of like, "Oh, everyone is going to have sex. Everyone is this. Everyone is supposed to do this," that can influence the way they think and the way they think about their own sexuality. And that can be detrimental to them. So no, it's not segregation, but it's still something that shouldn't exist and does.

Kayla: And I think it was an org psych class that we had talked about this in, because microaggressions in the workplace or whatever. It's oftentimes, if it's an all-out aggression, you can easily see that, and then just say to yourself, "That person's ignorant. They're that. It's on them. It's that person's fault that that just came out of their mouth." But with microaggressions, because they're maybe you don't even notice them fully, and there's not anything you can really pinpoint to blame, a lot of times the blame goes on yourself. Because there's nowhere else to put it. 'Cause it's all really fuzzy.

Sarah: And you're just like, "Oh, I'm just taking things too personally." You're like, "I'm..." you know.

Kayla: Right.

Sarah: Which isn't necessarily true.

Kayla: Right. So because there's nothing external to blame it on, a lot of times it just ill be personally. And then, that's just really detrimental to how you feel about yourself.

Sarah: Yeah. That's some dumb. So what do we do? Help me.

Kayla: Well, so what I wrote down in here is that in kind of an answer to that person's tweet from a couple weeks ago of how do you be more inclusive. In the same way... Stop moving your tongue.

Sarah: I can see myself in my reflection of my microphone.

Kayla: Oh, my God.

Sarah: Sticking my tongue out of my mouth.

Kayla: You're so annoying. But the way to be more inclusive. So first, everyone would need to be educated, which that's a barrier for another time. But once you are educated, and you do know that asexuality exists, it's just that not making the basic assumption that sex and relationships are an inherent natural thing that everyone in the world is going to participate in. Because that's what I see as the issue, is the way people talk about anything. It's just these broad blanket terms.

Sarah: Right. 'Cause it's like it is a natural thing, but it's not inherent and universal to everyone. And also, just by using language that's more inclusive and that's just being thoughtful and careful about different sexualities, and genders, and stuff that will normalize it for other people. And so you're kind of low-key teaching them, even if you're not straight up being like, "This is asexuality." Like that sort of thing. You're normalizing the thought that you're saying, "If you get married or in a relationship." Or just that sort of stuff normalizes it for your peers. It normalizes it for kids. And that is only going to be helpful.

Kayla: Yeah. 'Cause I think-

Sarah: Even if it's not explicitly talking about asexuality.

Kayla: Yeah. 'Cause I think a big thing is people will be like, "Oh, when you get married, or when you first have sex." And it's like for many people, maybe that is a when thing, but it's not for everyone.

Sarah: And some people think it's a when thing, and then it turns out to not be. So yeah, that's something that I think my mom, especially, has been careful to try and be more thoughtful about when she's speaking. To specify, "If you get married. If you have kids." That sort of thing.

Kayla: Can I tell you something that's really upsetting?

Sarah: Sure.

Kayla: So my parents know about the podcast or whatever, and they know that you're asexual and everything. And sometimes I'll go home or be catching up with my parents and my dad will be like, "So is Sarah interested in anyone? Has anything changed?" And I always tell them like, "No, it doesn't work like that. Like she could change her mind, but-"

Sarah: But it's not necessarily a likely thing.

Kayla: And so if this happens again, what I realize I need to say to him is, "Why aren't you asking me if my friend Miranda is now interested in girls? Why isn't that as natural of a question to you to ask about people changing their mind on things or whatever?"

Sarah: Because Miranda's interested in boys, and so that's normal. You know?

Kayla: Right. Yeah. So sometimes he'll just ask, because he does his best with a lot of things. But sometimes he, especially about masculinity, he's kind of like a... Well, he's a guy, so of course he's going to do that. And I get on him a lot about that. So he does his best. But he still says some weird things sometimes, as old people do. But yeah, sometimes he just-

Sarah: Calling your father old.

Kayla: He is, like, 55. So yes. But yeah, sometimes he'll say stuff like that. And I'm like, "No, she's not. No."

Sarah: Yeah. And then, when people say stuff like that, it makes me reticent. If, for some reason, that did change, and I was into somebody, I wouldn't want to tell those people.

Kayla: Right. Because then it just seems like you're proving-

Sarah: Because then it seems like I'm validating their thought that it's just a phase, or that it's something that should change or will change.

Kayla: We love that.

Sarah: Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. They can't see your thumbs up, Kayla.

Kayla: Just know that I'm giving.

Sarah: Okay.

Kayla: An ironic thumbs up.

Sarah: They also can't see or smell our candle, but it's really giving us a mood.

Kayla: She's there. You could put your microphone really close. Maybe they could hear it.

Sarah: Got that candle for Christmas.

Kayla: So these are things in my life within the past maybe couple months I've noticed. But has anyone, have you ever... 'Cause I would think that you might even more sensitive to microacegressions than I am.

Sarah: Yeah, probably. So I might have a more sensitive sensor.

Kayla: Yes. Because I think a lot of times it affects you more. 'Cause when people say like, "Oh, when you get married, or when you have sex," to me, it's like, yes, those things hopefully will happen. So have you ever had an experience that you remember with that kind of stuff?

Sarah: Honestly, not really. Because it's just so ingrained in our culture that I just don't. They don't stand out to me, because they happen constantly. And because I did grow up thinking that I was going to do these things, it's kind of like I had to change my viewpoint and look at it back in hindsight of like, "Oh, yeah." So I notice it more now, but I'm so used to it. And that sucks. But I'm just, it's standard, honestly. And I wish it weren't, but it is.

Kayla: Yikes.

Sarah: Do you have that experience, where in hindsight you realize stuff was bad, now that you understand?

Kayla: I think in the past couple years since we've been doing this, I notice more things. Just because people say things like people said in class, and that kind of just pique my interest. 'Cause I'm like, oh, I feel like we've talked about stuff like this on the podcast, or I just notice it. But you're right, though, it's so ingrained. Those are a few instances of things that I've noticed, but-

Sarah: It's happening constantly.

Kayla: It's happening. Maybe those are just bigger moments that I notice it. And maybe there are small things all the time that I have that just, they just pass by. I have no idea.

Sarah: Yeah. I even find myself saying stuff that I have to correct. Where it's like I even assume that the person I'm talking to is going to get married, and then I have to fix it myself. And it's just because you're under the ace umbrella doesn't mean that you can't make this mistake yourself. Because it has been ingrained into us in such a way since we were born. And so I find myself correcting my language at times. And that's the best you can do. Even I've started being careful to say, "If you get married," even to people who I know want to get married. Because it's like-

Kayla: You don't know.

Sarah: You don't know. They want to, but I don't know.

Kayla: Yeah. You never know.

Sarah: You can say when if someone's fucking engaged.

Kayla: Even then, it could be risky, man.

Sarah: Even then. You never know.

Kayla: You don't want to jinx it.

Sarah: So yeah, I've been trying to be more thoughtful, even with people who I know are straight or who I know are interested in marriage. I'm still more careful about the language I use, so that it normalizes this idea that not everyone is on the same track.

Kayla: And I think that's maybe an easy way to start the education. Because maybe you don't want to be having that hour-long lecture with people about asexuality. But at least in not even having to bring up any type of sexuality. But at least reminding people like, "Hey, I don't know, maybe this person isn't going to get married. We don't need to say that." Or-

Sarah: And if someone questions it, in that situation, you don't necessarily have to out anyone or say anything about the ace community, if you don't feel comfortable doing it. You can just be like, "Well, you don't know."

Kayla: And especially now that I think it's becoming more common for people to be like, "I don't want to get married. I'm just going to stay with this person forever, but we're not going to get married."

Sarah: So I guess, then, there's kind of the question of what happens when you're faced with microaggressions? And how do you talk to people that have been aggressing you? Because that can be a very difficult conversation to have, because a lot of times it feels like an attack on that person, when you're genuinely just trying to inform them. But because they don't understand, it feels like you're coming after their character or something. So I guess, do you have any ideas as to how to do that?

Kayla: The one way I can think of it as trying to separate... 'Cause I think it could come off as super personal. Because it is. You're basically telling someone, "I don't like how you're saying things." And oftentimes, they might not even realize they're saying it. So maybe just starting with, "Hey, how society ingrains us from the beginning, that blah, blah, blah?" Because a lot of times it might not be that specific person's fault that they're saying things like that. If you look at it on a macro level.

Sarah: They don't know any different.

Kayla: Right. They're just saying that, 'cause that's how they grew up culturally. So maybe just talking to the person and realizing together that this is a cultural thing and this is hard for both of us. 'Cause it's probably really ingrained in both of us. So even just noticing at first, "Oh, yeah. I think this because of society of the..." I think that's a good first step to stopping yourself, or at least noticing, when you, yourself, are doing microaggressions that why you're doing them.

Sarah: And you can also, just with the whole normalizing thing, if someone says, "When so-and-so gets married," you can just come back and be like, "Yeah, if so-and-so gets married," blah, blah, blah, blah. You don't have to make it a thing. Just kind of integrate it into the language, into the conversation. And that can do a lot of good in just exposing people to this idea.

Kayla: Yeah. So yeah, I think if you want to actually confront someone about it, maybe the society-sucks route is the way to go. But I think you're right. It's just slowly integrating it or having conversations about it that don't involve sexuality at all. Could be a more-

Sarah: Nonconfrontational-

Kayla: ... nonconfrontational-

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: ... way to do it.

Sarah: And it also depends on your relationship with the person. Sometimes you're just going to have to let it go. Because depending on the situation you're in, you may not feel safe doing it. You may be fucking tired, and you're sitting on the subway, and you're like-

Kayla: "I don't have time for this."

Sarah: ... "I'm not doing this right now." It's always up to you whether or not you say something, and you don't feel obligated to say something all the time. But I feel like a lot of people, especially those who are under the umbrella or who are queer, or who consider themselves queer allies, feel a certain obligation to help the community.

Kayla: Yeah. What I would say is, as someone who has a very hard time keeping their mouth shut-

Sarah: Yes.

Kayla: ... ever-

Sarah: Can confirm.

Kayla: Hey.

Sarah: You said it.

Kayla: Yeah. But I'm self-conscious about it.

Sarah: You said it.

Kayla: I know. So what I would say is try to pick your battles. Just yesterday, I was with some people who were talking about Caitlin Jenner and basically there was some of the classic statements, like, "Yeah. She..." It was something about she shouldn't have won Woman of the Year because... It was such a classic statement that a bunch of people have made about Caitlin Jenner. Like, "It takes a man to win Woman of the Year."

And one of the people was like, "Well, Bruce was facing a lot of charges that year, and then became a woman, and then got out of them." So some stuff like that. And I truly didn't know the people very well that I was with, and was tired, and didn't need to start a situation. And it took every molecule in my body to keep my mouth shut. I was just looking, because I also have a very expressive face. So I was just looking. I was just muttering to myself. I was just like nodding, like, "Mm-hmm."

Sarah: Now they think you're crazy.

Kayla: That's fine, dude. That's fine. So I would, from someone who rarely picks their battles-

Sarah: Pick your battles.

Kayla: Pick your battles.

Sarah: For your own mental health's sake.

Kayla: Well, yeah. 'Cause you just get yourself so worked up.

Sarah: Yeah. Pick your battles.

Kayla: Pick... Yeah.

Sarah: Pick your battles.

Kayla: God.

Sarah: Do you have anything else to add on this subject?

Kayla: Just try to be aware of what you're saying, I guess. Because even as ace-umbrella people, I think, a lot of times things just pop right out of your mouth.

Sarah: And I know that sometimes that can be difficult and, frankly, tiring to be thinking constantly about what you're saying. But eventually, you'll normalize it for yourself. And it won't-

Kayla: Mm-hmm. Eventually, it'll just be a habit.

Sarah: It won't be a thing anymore. It'll just be something you do.

Kayla: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: Lit.

Kayla: Lit.

Sarah: Kayla?

Kayla: Yes?

Sarah: What's our poll?

Kayla: No, I have an amouncement first.

Sarah: Kayla has a manamouncement.

Kayla: I have an amouncement.

Sarah: Good luck transcribing that one.

Kayla: Sarah, do you know where people might be listening to this right now with their ears?

Sarah: They could be listening on Spotify.

Kayla: Someone right now could be on the green app.

Sarah: Oh, yes.

Kayla: Listening to us.

Sarah: Sailor J, is that you?

Kayla: Sailor J. Land that neck. What a good video. Anyway, so-

Sarah: We're on Spotify. Yay.

Kayla: We're on Spotify now. So we... business talk time...

Sarah: Business time.

Kayla: ... changed podcast providers. Because we used to use Spotify-

Sarah: No.

Kayla: ... to get our little RSS molecules out of there.

Sarah: No. No. We used SoundCloud.

Kayla: What did I say?

Sarah: Spotify.

Kayla: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So we used to use SoundCloud to get our RSS link out to the shafts.

Sarah: She's doing weird hand motions.

Kayla: But SoundCloud wasn't really built for podcasts, and we're, like, professionals now.

Sarah: It's spelled for your mixed tapes.

Kayla: Those dang mixed tapes. So we changed to a place called Buzzsprout, which lets you be on Spotify.

Sarah: And I bet they don't lay off 15% of their employees.

Kayla: Yeah. SoundCloud's not doing too hot.

Sarah: Oh, I was talking about BuzzFeed.

Kayla: I think it's more than 15%. 'Cause they had another round of layoffs.

Sarah: Oh, Jesus.

Kayla: Just the other day. They did the second round. But also, apparently if you say to your Alexa, "Play Sounds Fake, But Okay," she does it. I don't have an Alexa, so I couldn't know. But apparently, that happens now.

Sarah: Wow.

Kayla: So anyway, this does, though, mean if you usually listen on SoundCloud, you might not be able to for a bit. I need to figure things out and make sure things don't double post.

Sarah: Yeah. There's, just because of the changes, there's some complications.

Kayla: Yeah. So I'm going to try and see if we can still be on SoundCloud, but it might start double posting things and getting weird. So it might not happen and you might have to migrate somewhere else.

Sarah: Sorry.

Kayla: But literally, every tiny podcast app or every podcast app I've been able to find, I've either put us on it or they've found us already. And plus, we're on fire right now.

Sarah: We're on fire.

Kayla: Because the half of you don't have an iPhone or don't want to use Apple podcast, there's there. It's on the Google one and it's on-

Sarah: It's on Spotify.

Kayla: It's on Spotify. So why do you need anything else?

Sarah: Yay.

Kayla: So anyway, that's an exciting news update.

Sarah: Yes.

Kayla: Also, we now have some busy little bees working on transcribing.

Sarah: Yes. So some people in our Discord, which you can join for a fun time.

Kayla: Link below. For karaoke.

Sarah: Because one of the things we said in our things to do instead of being aphobic pod was you could transcribe our episodes for the deaf and hard of hearing. And some of our listeners actually started doing it.

Kayla: Yeah, they-

Sarah: Which is wonderful. And I'm so sorry for how fast we talk and how much we interrupt each other.

Kayla: We just have thoughts.

Sarah: We have thoughts. So if you would like to be a part of that, you can join the little transcription...

Kayla: Just like a little channel.

Sarah: A channel.

Kayla: In the Discord.

Sarah: On the Discord, where you can claim little portions and transcribe them.

Kayla: Yeah. It's pretty cute.

Sarah: Very. And then, we'll be more accessible.

Kayla: Yay.

Sarah: I'm so happy.

Kayla: Yes.

Sarah: What's our poll for the week?

Kayla: No.

Sarah: What should Kayla say after I say, "Welcome back to the pod"?

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: Open response.

Kayla: I know we talk about cows and capybara on this show. I'd like to share a new animal while we're here.

Sarah: Oh, no, I know what it is.

Kayla: She is called... Let me find her full. The true name, I want. I want the pink frogmouth fish. It's part of the sea toad variety of thing. I think it's also related to the angler fish, which is very exciting.

Sarah: True facts about the angler fish.

Kayla: And if you follow me on Twitter, you can see a little picture of it. Pat, pat, patting around.

Sarah: Self promo.

Kayla: Truly. But I just want to promote this animal. And it is like a big blob of a fish. And then, just has two stump feet.

Sarah: Please Google it.

Kayla: Pink frogmouth fish, please.

Sarah: Or just go to Kayla's Twitter.

Kayla: It just pat, pat, pat. It's whole huge, fatty body is supported by the tiniest little stub, webbed feet/legs. And it just pat, pat, pats around. And-

Sarah: I like how you've decided that that's the noise it makes.

Kayla: Look at it. You tell me that thing doesn't pat around.

Sarah: It does.

Kayla: Look at it.

Sarah: It does.

Kayla: It pat, pat, pats.

Sarah: I know it does.

Kayla: So anyway, please just look her up. She's so beautiful. And it's my new favorite animal.

Sarah: Oh, it is a time, indeed.

Kayla: It's so ugly. I love it.

Sarah: Or we can also have a pool of, "Have you noticed microacegressions in your life?"

Kayla: Yeah.

Yes or no.

Sarah: Have you ever been confronted with a microacegression?

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: And then, secondary poll is-

Kayla: "What should I say?"

Sarah: ... "What should Kayla say after I say, 'Welcome back to the pod.'"

Kayla: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sarah: So...

Kayla: Did I do this out of order? Were we supposed to do beef first?

Sarah: Oh, I forgot we had beef to do.

Kayla: I forgot what order we do this podcast in.

Sarah: Yeah, we're supposed to do-

Kayla: What's your beef of the week?

Sarah: My beef of the week is that Buzzfeed laid off 15% of their employees, because they want to make more profit? Question mark.

Kayla: They're not going to. They laid off all of their main creators.

Sarah: They laid off a lot of their news people. All of their whole national news desk, all but one of their LGBTQIA+ news people. I hope all those people get-

Kayla: All of-

Sarah: ... lovely jobs by new people who treat them better and give them good health insurance.

Kayla: All of BuzzFeed New Mexico, gone.

Sarah: BuzzFeed Spain, gone.

Kayla: Ugh. God.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: Because they want to be more profitable.

Kayla: I feel like they're doing fine.

Sarah: They're doing fine.

Kayla: I think they're doing okay. And how are they going to make profit, when a bunch of people that people went to BuzzFeed to watch... So-and-so from BuzzFeed, a lot of those people are just gone.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. And they told them, they were like, "You're free to apply to work as a freelancer."

Kayla: No.

Sarah: And everyone's like, "No."

Kayla: No.

Sarah: "I'm not working as a freelancer for you."

Kayla: Yeah. No.

Sarah: BuzzFeed makes me angrier by the day. But I can't stop watching the videos.

Kayla: Such good content.

Sarah: Oh, I'm so glad that the Try Guys left.

Kayla: I just need Ladylike to leave now.

Sarah: Ladylike needs to leave.

Kayla: I need Ladylike, and I need the Unsolved guys to leave.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: And then, I'm good.

Sarah: Then I'm out.

Kayla: Then, I'm free. I've unchained myself.

Sarah: My beef of the week is my brain. She thinks so much.

Kayla: Stop it.

Sarah: She needs to be stopped.

Kayla: Stop it.

Sarah: That's all.

Kayla: Also, your brain is a meat, like beef.

Sarah: You can find our poll and tell us about your beef of the week on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. We also have Tumblr, soundsfakepod.tumblr.com. Or you can email us soundsfakepod@gmail.com. We usually answer, except for that one.

Kayla: I swear we answer, sometimes.

Sarah: We also have a Patreon. Our Patreon has been blowing up recently.

Kayla: I truly don't know what happened.

Sarah: Oh, my God. Thank you all very much.

Kayla: Yeah, we-

Sarah: It's because of the new patrons that we were able to put ourselves on Buzzsprout, and thus on Spotify.

Kayla: Yeah. Yeah. In the past couple weeks, people have just been flowing in. And it's means a lot to us.

Sarah: It sure does.

Kayla: So thank you.

Sarah: So our updated Patreon list. Yes. For our two-plus patrons, we have Keith McBlaine, Roxanne Ellis, who is in space, Amy and Austin Sigl, S-I-G-L. Is that right?

Kayla: Let us know.

Sarah: It seems German-ish, so I'm hoping I got that right. Our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Asritha Venacoda, Austin Lane, Drew Finis, and Piano Fiano. Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa. You can find them on Twitter @DirtyUncleKevin. Remember him? He's our bud. @Tessa_M_K. You know who else is the $10 patron?

Kayla: Who?

Sarah: Sarah Jones. She's giving us-

Kayla: She moved on up in the world.

Sarah: She's giving us more money. Sarah, we emailed you about what you want us to promote.

Kayla: Please email me back.

Sarah: Let us know. And we have a $15 patron.

Kayla: What?

Sarah: Our $15 patron is Nathaniel White. Thanks, Nathaniel White.

Kayla: That's so exciting.

Sarah: Also, please email us back. Because we also emailed you.

Kayla: Nathaniel gets to, if he would like, choose a topic for an episode. And we have to do it, unless it's nasty. And I think we should, whatever it is, if it's not something about asexuality, we have to relate it back to asexual.

Sarah: Yeah, somehow. Segue.

Kayla: We've got to.

Sarah: Yeah. But yes, those are all of our patrons. Thank you so much to our patrons. If you want to become a patron and make us happy, we can be found at patreon.com/soundsfakepod. We also have our Discord, if you want to join that. There are so many channels.

Kayla: There's-

Sarah: There's so many eyeballs, cows everywhere.

Kayla: They're karaoke-ing.

Sarah: They want to do karaoke.

Kayla: They're [inaudible].

Sarah: They're doing karaoke together. I truly don't know what happens in there. I just check in from time to time, and it's wild.

Kayla: They seem happy, so I'm happy.

Sarah: Yeah. Thank you for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.

Kayla: Until then, take good care of your pink frogmouth fish.

Sarah: And your cows.

Kayla: Yes. Cowfish.

Sarah: Oh.

Kayla: Oh.