Ep 82: Feminism and Research
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SARAH: Welcome to this week's episode of “Ya Yeet, son. And he threw me a beer.”
KAYLA: Can we keep that?
SARAH: Hey what's up, hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me.
KAYLA: And a demi-straight girl, that's me, Kayla.
SARAH: We talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand. And sometimes we have weird intros.
KAYLA: Yes. On today's episode, feminism. Sounds Fake But Okay.
SARAH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
[Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: M’horse is in the back.
SARAH: Um. Alright.
KAYLA: Ain't nobody pod me nothing.
SARAH: Okay, well. Now that that has happened.
KAYLA: What an exhilarating start to the episode.
SARAH: Ramadan Mubarak!
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Sorry for my white pronunciation, but it's Ramadan. And I would just like to wish you who'd... to... what's the word? Celebrate.
KAYLA: Oh, oh no.
SARAH: Who take part in Ramadan. I hope you're having a good time.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: I hope your food and drink withdrawal is not too bad.
KAYLA: Don't talk about it.
SARAH: I'm sorry, I'll cut that out. I hope you're having a good time. I just cut something out. Because I don't want to taunt people.
KAYLA: Not enough...
SARAH: I'm not going to cut it out.
KAYLA: What? I'm sorry and also happy Ramadan.
SARAH: Anyway.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: This week, what are we talking about?
KAYLA: Well, as I'm sure all of you know this...
SARAH: Kayla, Kayla, Kayla. Were you in a feminism class?
KAYLA: I was in… Even Sarah's mom the other day... So me and Sarah graduated this last weekend when you are listening to this. And so our families were all around and blah blah blah. And Sarah's mom listens. And Sarah's mom even was like, Kayla, are you in the feminism class? I was like, Julie?
SARAH: From Julie, that's savage.
KAYLA: I know, it was truly... I've been reeling for days from it. But yes, I was in a feminism class. And it was a capstone. Which means that it's like a... You have a big, final research. Basically, like the whole class is leading up to a final research project thing. I think that's what a capstone is. I don't know, but that's what we did. And so I did mine on feminism and asexuality. And some people that listen and are in our Discord actually participated in my study.
SARAH: Hi guys!
KAYLA: Hi guys! By now I should have sent you my final thing. So basically, when you do research with human or animal participants, you have to go through a thing called the IRB. It's like the Institutional Review Board. I think that's what the I is. I don't think it's international. And so basically you go through and you're like, here's what I want to do.
SARAH: The I is for interesting.
KAYLA: The Interesting Review Board?
SARAH: Oh, that's a… Can y'all hear that?
KAYLA: Someone is angry?
SARAH: No, the train.
KAYLA: No, I thought someone was slamming on the doors.
SARAH: Oh no, it was just the train.
KAYLA: Someone is slamming some doors though.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: This has been noises from our home. So, basically you go to them and you're like, here is my research. Can you check it to make sure I'm not going to be harming any living things? And they're like, blah blah blah. Change this, this. Blah blah blah. And then go ahead. So, since I was in a class, we didn't have to do that.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Which also means I can't share my research publicly. Which is sad because I wanted to do a whole episode. Well, what I was going to do is my... We were allowed to do our final project in any medium. And so I was going to do it as a podcast episode. So it could be an episode and my final project in one. But I'm not allowed to mass release it. I can give it to the people that were in it. And I can give it to people interpersonally. But I cannot…
SARAH: What about outer-personally? What about intra-personally?
KAYLA: I can give it to myself, yes. In fact, I did do that. But so I can... anyway. So instead, I'm just going to be talking generally about the topic. And then also a few things that I found in my research. Because you have to do a literature review. So I had to read a bunch of research that people had already done on asexuality slash and or feminism. And read about it and write about it. And then do my project.
SARAH: Before you get in too deep. So, we graduated. But I have one more class that I'm taking right now.
KAYLA: Yes. Yeah.
SARAH: And it is... the topic of the class is about queer media in the Reagan era.
KAYLA: Extremely specific.
SARAH: Very specific. But a lot happened. And so this is the first queer studies class I've ever taken.
KAYLA: They're so fun.
SARAH: And so I feel like I'm learning so much.
KAYLA: See? Don't you get it now?
SARAH: Well also it's just like... it's a lot of stuff that I had learned informally. And now I'm actually learning it in a formal setting. And we're watching movies about queerness. We watched a documentary called Word is Out.
KAYLA: If you ever... I don't know if it was in the Reagan era. My professor that I had for my queer media class made a couple documentaries about queer media. And I don’t know if you are, well.
SARAH: Well, the things we're watching aren't just limited to the Reagan era. We're mostly just using the ‘80s as a framework to look at it. So we're also looking... the documentary we watched is from the late ‘70s. We're going to look at some stuff from the early ‘90s. We're going to watch... at the end of the semester we're going to watch some episodes of the TV show Pose on FX. Which is the one with Billy, Great Dress at Met Gala.
KAYLA: Yeah. Billy Porter.
SARAH: Billy Porter. And...
KAYLA: Oh, so Met Gala. Please, for a second.
SARAH: And that's like a recent show, but we're going to look at it through the lens of the things we've learned. But... yes. But there also has been stuff where it's like, you're ignoring ace people. And I understand that there wasn't really a conception of it at that time in the same way that we know now, but I'm like...
KAYLA: Yeah. It is interesting because I took a queer media class last semester. And it was interesting because I talked a lot in the class about asexuality. There was a lot of discussion-based stuff in the class. But yeah, it was… because a lot of the stuff we were watching and talking about didn't have it. But also, so my professor, Katherine Sender, if you ever watch a documentary and it's basically about like, here is the queer characters that were in TV, if you ever watched one of those by Katherine Sender, she is my professor. But she is making a new one about the thousands, the aughts.
SARAH: The aughts.
KAYLA: And she was taking suggestions from us of like, what characters or TV shows do you think I need to include in this round? Because there's just so much media now. And I remember me and several other people in the class were like, do BoJack Horseman because... Or do this or this because of ace representation.
SARAH: Yeah. We're doing a final project in this class. And also we're making some zine pages.
KAYLA: Oh my god, my whole queer theory class, every week we made a zine page and our final project was just zine.
SARAH: Yeah. So we're going to have a class zine together. But we're doing a final project and I am literally one day into the class. We haven't done that much yet but I'm already like, I want to relate it to asexuality somehow. But it's like a research project and it's like, the research didn't exist at that time to the extent.
KAYLA: Well, to the extent, no. But what I was surprised by is even back then people were talking about it a little bit. Like, it hasn't been heavily researched until recently and I'll get into it more but it's not extremely accurate in my opinion. I don't think it's done by anyone that's asexual.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: But like the book I read… shoot, what was the book I was reading on spring break that I used for my project?
SARAH: Oh, I don't remember. You have mentioned it on the pod before.
KAYLA: It's like Repressed Sexualities or something. Someone in the Discord told me about it and I ended up using it. But it's an older book and there's a chapter on asexual people. So it's there. And I can point you to some, but.
SARAH: Yeah. It was really interesting watching this documentary though because it was interviewing 26 gay and lesbian people. And just the terminology that they used, a lot of the words that they used very openly to talk about themselves are words that I would consider today to be offensive or derogatory. And it's just so interesting how it has like evolved, like the language around it has evolved. And… Like they were saying that back then the terms gay and lesbian were a little bit more flexible than they are now. And so the queer community was a lot of times referred to as the gay and lesbian community, which to us seems very restrictive. But at the time the words weren't as restrictive as they are now. It's interesting. Anyway…
KAYLA: The book I was talking about was the Sexually Oppressed, and it was from ‘77.
SARAH: That was the… how this documentary came up.
KAYLA: So, I mean, that's there.
SARAH: Yeah. But anyway, you did research.
KAYLA: did some research. So, basically my research was like, it was about broadly asexuality and feminism. Narrowly it was about something called sex positive feminism. Do you know what she is?
SARAH: I do, but our listeners might not.
KAYLA: Yes. So basically, I mean, as with feminism, there is probably a lot of different ways you can define it. But basically to me, it's kind of like the idea that like women, to be like, a way for women to be liberated and free is to just have lots of sex. And feel pleasure because women were sexually repressed before and now we're not as much and so we should just be having lots of sex. And that's something that I feel like you see in the media like pretty regularly. At least I feel like I see it.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
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KAYLA: So basically what I was curious about is like, will asexual women feel uncomfortable with feminism or like, you know, not identify as feminists because of that. So, I can't say what the findings ended up being or the conversation we had. I guess…
SARAH: Ask your friends about it.
KAYLA: I guess if you're curious, maybe the people in the Discord would be willing to talk to you about what the research was or something like that. But that was basically what my research was about was what sex positive feminism and how sexualized feminism some kind of is, affect like if asexual people feel feminist. What do you… Like, I didn't include you in my research…
SARAH: You didn’t.
KAYLA: Because I think we are… it's too much.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: It wouldn't have worked out.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Because I think you know too many of my thoughts about a lot of this.
SARAH: I do and I also don't think I was available when you did the interviews anyway.
KAYLA: Well yeah, yeah
SARAH: Here's what I think. I also know what your results were.
KAYLA: Did I tell you my… I don't think you know my full results.
SARAH: I don't know the full results but you did…
KAYLA: I talked…
SARAH: You expressed some things about them to me.
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah.
SARAH: So I have that, like, tinting. But I think that… Kayla is making weird faces.
KAYLA: I just like, you know when you have a zit on your back and it hurts and you accidentally, like, itch it?
SARAH: This is great content.
KAYLA: I'm sorry, it really hurts. It really hurts. I don't know what's going on back there. I'm very, I'm sorry, it really hurts.
SARAH: Okay. Well, here's the thing. I think if someone identifies... Now this is a generalization and I know that it's not true of everyone. But I find that if people identify as queer, they're probably more liberal and progressive in their views more generally. And in their views of like, the civil rights and stuff. Just because a lot of times queer people are members of groups who have not done so well in the civil rights front in the past and have had to fight for their rights and that sort of thing. So they, in my experience, tend to be more liberal. So, the way I would think, like… as an ace person too, I would think that it wouldn't necessarily make people want to not identify as feminists. Because I would feel like the political orientation of a lot of people who readily accept the ace identity would be more likely to lean left anyway, more likely to lean in the direction that feminism leans on the political spectrum. But that doesn't mean that they would necessarily be super pleased with this idea of sex positivity. And I think, personally, I think sex positivity is good as long as it comes with the caveat that it's a like “if you want” scenario. And I think that's the thing that I would be pushing for in any given feminist community. Would be like, sure, tell people to have as much safe sex as they want, if they want. And not make them feel like they have to. And so I think, for me, that would be the thing I would want to change, not the fact that there's sex positivity in general. Does that make sense?
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Do you think it tints the way you think about feminism or yourself as a feminist in any way? Or are you able to kind of like section it off?
SARAH: I identified as a feminist before I identified as an ace person.
KAYLA: That's fair.
SARAH: So I don't think my sexuality tints my view of feminism much, if at all. Just because I understood my identity as a feminist before I understood my identity as an ace person. And obviously, considering myself a feminist is more of an opinion than being aces. But I think they're both very integral to what I believe and who I am as a person. And so, although they're not the same and they shouldn't necessarily be conflated, like your beliefs and your sexuality shouldn't necessarily be conflated with each other, but I think they're both just very ingrained in my worldview. And so it's hard for me to say that asexuality and the ace umbrella has too much of an impact on my view of feminism. I think it does to some extent, but I don't think it... It mostly just changes the lens at which I look through it rather than my opinions. Does that make sense?
KAYLA: Yeah, and I think it is really interesting because it's like, you know, your sexuality isn't a choice, but being a feminist is really…
SARAH: Technically, yes.
KAYLA: Technically a choice because you can change your opinion about stuff. And that's, yeah, what I think is interesting is like, is something, could something so stable in your life, so integral to you, something that you can't choose, part of your identity, can that impact a part of your identity that you can choose? And I think lesbians have been involved in feminism for a very long time, and it's often conflated that like, oh, all feminists are just like, butch lesbians, whatever. And I feel like maybe for lesbians it is a bigger part of like why you're a feminist or like part of your feminist identity than being asexual.
SARAH: Yeah, because I think it has to do with... I mean, there's a lot of overlap of the ideas of feminism and the ideas of like civil rights, and there's a lot of overlap with the ideas of gay women and the ideas of civil rights. More so than the ace community, because this is jumping back to the thing we've mentioned so many times, is that a lot of ace-spec people are passing. And so we don't always get impacted by these civil rights issues like same-sex marriage and the criminalization of gay sex and that sort of thing. We're not necessarily, although we might be, but we're not necessarily impacted in the same way as gay and lesbian communities are. And so I think because lesbian communities are women to start, and they already have that disadvantage, and they have the gay thing compounded on top of that, I think that, I mean it makes sense why they would be so involved with both communities. Communities? Is it a community? I don't know.
KAYLA: I don't know either.
SARAH: Is feminism a community? Discuss.
KAYLA: Discuss. Looking more I guess at some specific research I looked at. So a lot of the stuff, and this kind of has to do with the whole lesbianism thing too, I was talking to my professor because of this one piece of research I found, which I will get to, about a lot of times lesbians, especially in the ‘70s, would see, or a lot of times, did I say lesbians? A lot of times feminists, especially in the ‘70s, were looking for the perfect sexuality, because something called the sex wars went on. Do you know the sex wars?
SARAH: I don’t
KAYLA: So there was like two groups of feminists and they were fighting in the streets like West Side Story.
SARAH: Like snapping?
KAYLA: Yeah, a lot of snapping.
SARAH: Fist fights?
KAYLA: A lot of fist fights.
SARAH: Fisticuffs if you will.
KAYLA: A lot of dancing. Crazy. So one half… the one side was like, we are anti-porn, we're anti-like, like, whoa, whoa, hold on.
SARAH: Oh this sounds familiar.
KAYLA: Let me, I'll read you their like...
SARAH: My GSI, my...
KAYLA: They had like some basic tenets.
SARAH: My instructor of my queer media class like mentioned this offhand. I think we're going to talk about it later in the semester.
KAYLA: Well, here's a point. So, they were called the radical feminists. Um, and they were basically opposed to like porn, any sexual practices that condone violence, prostitution, cruising, adult and child relations, sexual role play, any of that kind of stuff.
SARAH: What is Cruising?
KAYLA: Cruising? I think, let me Google it, but I think it's just like when gay men go out like looking for… But then that's not about women.
SARAH: We're learning things today.
KAYLA: You know, it's basically just like walking around looking for a sex partner, I think.
SARAH: Oh, okay.
KAYLA: I think.
SARAH: It's like Tinder in real life.
KAYLA: The act of going up to like pick up another gay guy.
SARAH: Like you're just going out to pick someone up for the sole purpose of sexing them.
KAYLA: I think so.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Yeah, Yeah. So that was radical feminism. And also, like currently radical feminism is kind of like more not just like, ooh, empowerment, yay. It's more like, okay, we need to break down the systems. Like it's more systemic and societal than just like, let's lift each other up and lean in. Miss, whatever Facebook lady. Boo-hoo anyway.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: The Facebook lady, she's like high up in Facebook. She wrote the book Lean In and it was basically like women, if you want to do well, just need it, want it so bad and then it'll be fine.
SARAH: Mm. Yeah. That's not making any systemic change.
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KAYLA: Right. So radical feminism is really more systemic anyway. So the radical feminists were like, we don't like porn. We don't like any of this. There's a woman that currently works on our campus who thinks that all straight sex is rape because men always have more power.
SARAH: That's a hot take.
KAYLA: So, she… a very hot take. My professor was like, now take this.
SARAH: It’s piping hot take.
KAYLA: So yeah.
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah. And then there were the libertarian feminists and they were basically like, sexuality is great, it's liberating, consensual.
SARAH: Libertarian?
KAYLA: They were called…
SARAH: As in like liberating? Not like the Libertarian Party?
KAYLA: Yeah, as in like liberating.
SARAH: Because I just…
KAYLA: It’s the ‘70s
SARAH: I know, I guess Libertarian Party didn't exist yet though.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I just… the Libertarian Party is a political party in the United States that's kind of an offshoot of Republicans.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So it's… I have a lot of associations with that. But okay.
KAYLA: So basically they were like, all consensual sex is great, let's just like have pleasure as women, blah blah blah. But basically both sides in a lot of feminism is… so it's very revolved around like sex, which is interesting. Because it's revolving a lot of, it's either bad sex or good sex, but there is to these people a right kind of sex. And that matters a lot to feminism, which is really interesting that that's a basic tenet of feminism is how you're having sex. But basically, so they're both kind of, both of the sides were kind of looking for like a correct sexuality. Ultimately the libertarian feminists basically like won out because that's what's most popular now is that idea, not the radical feminist idea.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But so a lot of times they were thinking that like lesbian sex was the politically correct kind of sex because it was better for women, you don't have the man overpowering you, whatever. There was this one woman, I think she's a woman, Hello? Whatever, this one piece of research I found from 2010, so recent, was saying that the, basically was asserting that asexuality is the perfect feminist sexuality if we choose it. She was saying that it is a perfect sexuality for women to choose and it threatens sex as an institution, government and patriarchal control, it's like anti-reproduction, it's anti-family, and so it's like the perfect radical feminist sexuality to choose.
SARAH: She's talking about abstinence, not asexuality.
KAYLA: Right, but she is talking about asexuality in this article.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And so it was very interesting…
SARAH: Did you send her a strongly worded email?
KAYLA: I did not send her a strongly worded email, but perhaps I'll send her this podcast. I don't know who she is, I think it's a she, I'm assuming it is, it's feminist studies, like odds are it's a woman.
SARAH: Don't make assumptions.
KAYLA: Listen, the field is probably women, it just is. But yeah, so it's interesting, and I wanted to know what your thoughts were on this. I don't think I've talked to you about this part of what I found. I don't think I've talked to you about it before, because I was like, I want to talk about this on a podcast, because when I read this, I was like, I just...
SARAH: I remember you reading some stuff and you being upset about it, but you didn't tell me what it was.
KAYLA: This was the main thing. There was more research just generally on asexuality, and they looked at a lot of like avian stuff, nothing too deep, because it just like it hasn't been studied yet. But yeah, sometimes they were just... it was nuanced things about how they were defining it, and a lot of times the choice thing was kind of like, meh.
SARAH: Well, I mean, I have a... I have so many word retrieval problems.
KAYLA: You really do. Earlier, she wanted me to shut the door, and instead she told me to open the window.
SARAH: It's getting worse.
KAYLA: It is getting worse. It's bad.
SARAH: I cannot think of the right words I want. I have an issue on a very basic level. Well, I don't know how I feel about the fact that there's, like, a correct sexuality. I think that's problematic because sexuality is not a choice, and you're saying that some people are inherently correct and some people are inherently incorrect.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's basically saying that some people are more feminist because of their sexuality.
SARAH: Because of their sexuality. And I think that reflects a very misguided belief in how sexuality works. The choices that this person is talking about is the choice to be abstinent or celibate. It is not asexuality. They have a misunderstanding of what asexuality is, and asexuality, like any other sexuality, is not a choice.
KAYLA: It is a woman, by the way, the spectrum.
SARAH: It is a woman. Alright, well, I just disagree with her. Yeah, I just, I don't think, I think she has a basic misunderstanding of sexuality. And maybe shouldn't be writing research about it if she has such a clear misunderstanding of how it works on a basic level, question mark.
KAYLA: That is something I was thinking about a lot, because obviously I don't know for sure the sexualities of the people that I was reading their research on asexuality. But like I had to assume, because the type of research that goes on in like feminist and women's studies is not like your classic research where there's a lot of numbers and it's very analytical and it's very strict. Like you're allowed to bring in your personal feelings, kind of into it. Like when I was writing mine, I was clearly stating like, here's why I'm invested in this. Like here's why my part, here's why I came up with this hypothesis because this is what I experienced. And so you would think maybe if they were, they would like say something. But yeah, this woman is, she's a professor of women and gender studies at Arizona State. And she specializes in sexuality and some other radical feminism and political activism. But yeah, but it is interesting that… I am interested to why she…
SARAH: In the 21st century, that is her understanding of sexuality as a professor of sexuality.
KAYLA: Yeah, and…
SARAH: I want to interview this person now and say, what?
KAYLA: Yeah, and she has a book. I'm reading her other research titles. One is slippery desire… first of all, in qualitative research, got some great titles always going on. Slippery Desire, Women's Qualitative Accounts of Their Vaginal Lubrication and Wetness.
SARAH: Okay. Let's talk about sex.
KAYLA: Troubling Anal Sex.
SARAH: Wow.
KAYLA: It's just like a lot of stuff about like, sex. So, I don't… Sex during Menstruation. Daddy's Little Girl.
SARAH: Oh god.
KAYLA: On the perils of chastity clubs, purity balls, and ritualized abstinence.
SARAH: I'm just confused by this person.
KAYLA: Compulsory bisexuality, the challenges of modern sexual fluidity. Here's what I'll say is… for as sensitive as these topics are, they are important to study and question. Like this one is called, Compulsory Bisexuality, the Challenges of Modern Sexual Fluidity. I haven't read it. I can guess what it's about. But it is… I mean, that title alone is a bit troubling to be like, well what's wrong with that? But I do think it's important to look at these kind of things with a critical lens.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: However, the basic ideas of sexuality are that it's not a choice. And so it's just hard to understand where that is coming from. Because on the one hand I understand looking at everything critically, there but are just some basic truths, in my opinion at least.
SARAH: Yeah, at least things that have been broadly accepted by queer communities and also by academia as to how this works. There are a lot of questions that go unanswered, like why do people have different sexualities? There are plenty of questions there, but at this point it's pretty broadly accepted that it's not a choice. And so I think if you're going to make an argument like that, then you need to support your argument as to why you think it is a choice. I have not read any of this woman's writings or research.
KAYLA: She writes a ton. I don't know how quickly she's putting these things out. And a lot of them I guess are theoretical. The one I read about asexuality as a choice had no actual research in it. It was just theory, I think. So, I guess that doesn't take as long. But she has a lot of publications. She's cranking things out.
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: Which is, I didn't think how it was, but I guess I am not an expert.
SARAH: Yeah. I would like to know this woman's reasoning for viewing sexuality in the way that she does. And what her experience is in terms of her exposure to different sexualities. I mean, you can write about this stuff while still being straight, but I would want to know what her exposure level is to… like how many ace people does she know?
[00:30:00.00]
KAYLA: Yeah. I feel like for me, I was comfortable writing about this and doing this research project because I am on the ace spectrum. And also, I just am very close to it. So even if I was just…
SARAH: We have a podcast
KAYLA: Right. Like even I was just straight…. like I thought I was at the beginning of this podcast, I would still feel very comfortable doing this. Because I feel like…
SARAH: Because we talk about it every week
KAYLA: Because I have enough knowledge and I also have Sarah or all of you that I could go to with things and be like, am I being wrong right now?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But yeah, maybe I will contact her. She has a contact thing on her website
SARAH: I want to know what her connection to the ace community is if she has one.
KAYLA: Should I contact her and send her this episode and just be like, “hey”
SARAH: I don't know if you'd send her the episode, but like send her some thoughts. Or some questions.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Get her on the pod.
KAYLA: Honestly though.
SARAH: Live pod debate. Live pod debate.
KAYLA: Yeah, but it's just weird and it’s… you have to think she doesn't know much because also she was saying it's she like, she said like it's anti-family and it's anti-reproduction.
SARAH: That's not true.
KAYLA: But that completely ignores the model of attraction where asexual people can still, first of all, can still have sex.
SARAH: Yeah, they can still have sex, they can still choose to have families whether they adopt or whether they have QPRs or...
KAYLA: So like, I don't know, it's hard because on the one hand I understand the argument that like, if there was going to be asexuality that went with radical feminism in the fact that it like subverts cultural norms and like, kind of like systemic things, I get that. Because asexuality does, like a lot of it talk about like, hey, sex isn't as important as everyone thinks it is, or not at least as normal or like for everyone.
SARAH: Yeah, it's not the standard.
KAYLA: Right, and on the one hand that is very radical and does go with a lot of the things that radical feminism talks about. Sarah is just making faces into her microphone.
SARAH: I could see just my mouth.
KAYLA: So, on the one hand I can see how it works and I would be happy to read a paper about that, the commonalities between that or just how asexuality and feminism go together. There's really no research on that. Mine was the only one.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But yet talking about it as inherently, first of all, a choice and second of all inherently anti certain things is just not...
SARAH: It's not inherently anything.
KAYLA: It's just like actually not how it works. It's just not.
SARAH: Yeah. And that's the tea.
KAYLA: That is the tea.
SARAH: Did you have any other things that you learned from your research? That you're allowed to share with us?
KAYLA: That I’m allowed… The problem is there was a lot of interesting things that I just can't like really talk about.
SARAH: Fuck the IRB. Fuck the IRB.
KAYLA: Well, I think it's nice that I didn't have to go through the IRB because it’s… it was a long process. My teacher didn't make us, but it does set…
SARAH: Research seems exhausting.
KAYLA: Yeah. For a while I thought about… because I took a lot of classes with research because it’s just how my majors are. And I like it, but it is super time consuming. And there's just a lot of reading.
SARAH: Yeah. I couldn't do it.
KAYLA: It is, I mean I like it a lot, but it is a lot.
SARAH: I couldn't.
KAYLA: I guess, if you, like, what would you want, like sexuality studies or like the gender studies, you know, those groups of people. Like what would you want them to do? Because I do think asexuality should be researched.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I think it's extremely interesting.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I think the community is super interesting. I think it's the first, like the fact that there's a new… a new sexuality coming to life at this time where we are, with technology and communication is.
SARAH: The age of the internet.
KAYLA: That has never happened before. And I think that's super interesting.
SARAH: I think it's a community in ways that other queer communities didn't have the capacity to be. Because I think there was definitely a lot of community building, especially in the early days when there was a lot of like civil rights issues.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because they were, you know, bonding together. But I, especially like post Stonewall. But I, but just because of the internet, I mean there is a community that has been a part of this sexuality's journey to the mainstream through its entire lifespan. Not the entire time that ace people have existed, but the entire time that we've had this concept of it as a society. So, I mean that makes it very unique in that it is a community in a way that no other community is. So I think studying the community, like I also just like, I want to know what, like because there are so many sub-sexualities within the ace-spec, I kind of want to know what the breakdown is. Because we have, I mean obviously it's never going to be fully accurate, but we have these numbers of gay, lesbian, bi, blah blah blah. I want to know what the… I want to know
KAYLA: I also think the fact that there are so many sub-categories is really interesting.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because I don't know that many other sexualities really have that in any formal capacity. And sometimes I wonder if it's kind of just like “growing pains” of a new-ish sexuality and if one day that'll go away. But I don't know because…
SARAH: I don’t either
KAYLA: I don't know. So I guess, what would you say to researchers? Or like ask of them?
SARAH: Pay attention to us.
KAYLA: I also want them to… I don't know, if there's any ace people listening that are in, like, don't know what to do with their life, but you might like research. I mean like, I don't know. I do know someone that listens to us that lives where I'm going to be moving soon. Who is a master's student that is studying asexuality and religion, I think theology, I don’t know.
SARAH: Yep.
KAYLA: So that's interesting.
SARAH: That is interesting. Yeah, I just think like in general, studying asexuality in the same way that people have done, you know, queer studies, like trans studies, like there has been a lot in that realm and there has been more in some areas than others, which is, can sometimes be problematic in its own right. But that's, I'd rather have the research and be like, the way we deal with it is problematic than not have the research at all. Because if you have the research, you can, you can make the base… I was doing a reading today for my class, it was basically like trans studies are always like tacked on to like queer studies, like in gender studies, and that can be problematic because it never exists.
KAYLA: Like on its own?
SARAH: On its own.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And like I think that same thing would probably happen with ace studies, but…
KAYLA: At least it'd be there.
SARAH: But at least it would be there and with time, we can make those changes. So…
KAYLA: I also just…
SARAH: Pay attention to us.
KAYLA: I think it's hard too because I would assume that most people that get into this kind of research, it's because they have that identity.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like I'm assuming a lot of the people doing trans research are trans themselves or at least closely linked to the community. But since the asexual community is so small in comparison
SARAH: Certainly
KAYLA: It's just hard to get that many people.
SARAH: Yeah. And it's just not as well-known generally. So people don't know that it is there to research because they don't know about it.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Do you have anything else to add?
KAYLA: Not really.
SARAH: Alright. What's your poll for the week?
KAYLA: Should I contact this lady? Tell her my thoughts
SARAH: Everyone is going to say yes. Everyone tell Kayla to contact this lady.
KAYLA: You'd have to help me write.
SARAH: Yeah, I would.
KAYLA: You should also read the article. Like the full thing.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: I don't think it's very long. And it's… I mean it's interesting because it makes you mad, so.
SARAH: Cool. Do we have another poll or is that just going to be it? Please do research on the ace community.
KAYLA: Are you doing research on the ace community?
SARAH: Yes, in earnest. Yes, I want to. Nah, bitch.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Or no, but I think someone else should.
KAYLA: That's going to be like everyone.
SARAH: I know. Whatever. Well, whatever happens to be the polls will be the polls.
KAYLA: Maybe it'll be another cow race because y'all screwed that fourth cow. Fuck you all. That poor fourth cow.
SARAH: Kayla was so nervous.
KAYLA: I was so upset the entire time I was losing. I was so sad.
SARAH: Is that your beef of the week?
KAYLA: Yeah, pretty much. And also I was in the arcade today and it kept eating my fucking tokens and I was getting really mad.
SARAH: Life is so hard when you're Kayla.
KAYLA: But then this other machine poured out a lot of tokens that we did not put in so we made up for it.
SARAH: Oh man, I thought of beef earlier today and I forgot it.
KAYLA: Oh, well I told you what your beef should be. What was it?
SARAH: That I keep having stomach pain.
KAYLA: Oh yeah, was that what I told you?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: She does keep having stomach pain.
SARAH: I need to see a doctor.
KAYLA: She does need to see a doctor. You should probably also see someone about your word retrieval. That like has to be something bad.
SARAH: My beef of the week is that I can never find words in my head.
KAYLA: What's the one you always do for umbrella? Isn't umbrella a common one for you?
SARAH: Yeah, also microwave. Umbrella and mic…
KAYLA: A lot of times she calls the remote the microphone and no one realizes it. And like I used to think she was just like it was a joke.
SARAH: No, it's not intentional.
KAYLA: And I was just like okay, I just hand it to her and then I realized later that she didn't mean it.
[00:40:00.00]
SARAH: Yes. Umbrella is one of the words that commonly comes to mind and so is microwave.
KAYLA: I'm trying to think of other ones. I should start...
SARAH: And there are a lot of words like, well because when I was, like I remember when I was in high school I would always forget the word expose. And so I wrote it in my notes app on my phone. And now I don't ever forget it. Because I was like I forgot it so many times.
KAYLA: It's bad.
SARAH: I've done that for a couple words where I could just never remember them so I wrote them in the notes app on my phone and now I remember them. For example the word partial in reference to like brass instruments, like…
KAYLA: You should do that… Is there a way to reverse that for the word umbrella? So you can like maybe forget it.
SARAH: Get it out of my head.
KAYLA: Like it's not that important. You could probably forget it and you'd be okay.
SARAH: Oh no. Also the word article as in reference to the or and. Or not and. A or an. Anyway. I forgot my beef of the week and that's my beef of the week.
KAYLA: Yeah that's fair.
SARAH: Is that my memory is poor.
KAYLA: You should start keeping track of your word retrievals. And put them on the Twitter.
SARAH: Jesus
KAYLA: Keep you accountable. Maybe it would help.
SARAH: My beef of the week is that when we took pictures at graduation of me and Kayla for the pod, there's one where I look really buff but the picture is not that good.
KAYLA: You just look very buff.
SARAH: So, I didn't post it.
KAYLA: You should just post it. I posted one of the ones of us just like…
SARAH: Yeah you did
KAYLA: Throwing P signs on the story.
SARAH: I look really buff in that picture.
KAYLA: Put it on the story. Show the people how buff you are.
SARAH: Okay, anyway, yeah that's all. You can find those things on our Twitter @SoundsFakePod. SoundsFakePod.com is where you can find everything.
KAYLA: True
SARAH: Encourage Kayla to email this lady.
KAYLA: Yeah, and I'll try to post… Hmm. I wonder, because if you're not in university, it might be hard to get the article because for us we can get it through the library, but I can try to find, maybe I'll just throw a link to it somewhere.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Of like…
SARAH: If people are interested.
KAYLA: Of that one, or if all the ones I looked at. I'll see, I'll see what I can do.
SARAH: Yeah, okay, cool. So, we also have Patreon if you want to give us your money so that we can… I was going to say work up the… I forgot. Oh no.
KAYLA: We can work up the, the, the, the.
SARAH: Here's the problem…
KAYLA: Merch?
SARAH: Sometimes, sometimes word retrieval is just, I think, of the wrong word. Which is like kind of funny.
KAYLA: Sometimes there's no word.
SARAH: But sometimes there's just nothing.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And that's worse.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I really think that's worse.
KAYLA: I agree, because then there's like… Because at least if you say the wrong thing I might be able to figure it out.
SARAH: It's like the tip of your tongue… and a lot of times it's like more like academic words where just nothing comes to mind. Yeah. And it's like I know exactly what this word is and I can't think of it.
KAYLA: Yep.
SARAH: And now I kind of forgot what I was saying and I think it didn't make a lot of sense anyway so that's okay.
KAYLA: We're asking for money to give them something.
SARAH: Yeah. The courage? The word courage is not it. I don't know.
KAYLA: We are 40 dollars away from merch, so there is that.
SARAH: If you want us to get merch, help us out.
KAYLA: And then also give us art for it because we can't do art. Yeah.
SARAH: And if you say, but Kayla and Sarah, if you get merch we're going to have to pay for the merch too. Listen, getting merch also costs money.
KAYLA: Yeah, it costs us money to like…
SARAH: It costs us money to get merch
KAYLA: I get it, but like listen.
SARAH: But like what can be done?
KAYLA: We just graduated. I don’t have a lot of money. I spent $15 at the arcade today.
SARAH: I worked for 10 hours today.
KAYLA: Sarah worked for 10 hours today. I went pot pudding and went to the arcade. It's fine. I have a job in a month. It's fine. Everything is fine.
SARAH: Okay. Our patrons… our $2 patrons are Keith McBlayne, Roxanne, Alice is in Space, Anonymous, Nathan Dennison, and Mariah Walter. $5, Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Lane, Drew Finny, Perry Fiero, my Aunt Jeanie, Dee, Benjamin Ibarra, and Megan Rowell.
KAYLA: We're sorry.
SARAH: Megan, I believe it's Megan.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Emailed us and told us how to pronounce her name. We are saying it right now.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And Quinn Pollock, who used to be a $2 patron, but bumped up.
KAYLA: Bumped up. Be like Quinn. Upgrade from zero to… not zero.
SARAH: Our 10 dollar patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyunclekevin and @ Tender-score.
KAYLA: Oh my, tender score
SARAH: I try and say it too fast because…
KAYLA: You really do
SARAH: It's so many syllables and I want to just fly through it.
KAYLA: I know
SARAH: @tessa_m_k. I'm sorry, Tessa. Sarah Jones @eternallolly and Arcness who’d like to promote the Trevor Project. Our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White (nathanieljwhitedesigns.com) and Anonymous who would like to promote the end of the semester.
KAYLA: And it's already over. Now you're in a new one. Sarah had class and it was funny.
SARAH: I'm back in class so that's fun.
KAYLA: How many days a week is that class?
SARAH: It's two days a week. It's three hours per day plus on Tuesdays we have screening.
KAYLA: Gross.
SARAH: Yeah. And like it's not out of the ordinary for me to have a three-hour class but for me to have a three-hour class more than once a week is...
KAYLA: That sucks.
SARAH: Well, thanks for listening. Tune in next Friday
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: May 17th at 5.30 Eastern.
KAYLA: 5 PM.
SARAH: PM. Not in the morning.
KAYLA: Not in the morning. We're not that kind of lady.
SARAH: And we will also be posting the pod as usual on Sunday. I don't know how much I'm going to edit it if we're doing it live anyway. We'll see.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know...
SARAH: We'll see what happens.
KAYLA: Yeah, I guess I don't know. Because it might end up being really long if there's people there talking to us because there's a chat feature.
SARAH: Yeah. Also, maybe I'll just leave in all of our weird silences that I usually cut out and repeated ums.
KAYLA: We’ll do that.
SARAH: We don't have too many weird silences.
KAYLA: Alright.
SARAH: But sometimes I do cut things out.
KAYLA: Anyway.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: You'll have to watch and listen to both to see.
SARAH: I know. Alright so tune in next Friday for more of us in your ears and your eyes.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: And Sunday just for your ears.
KAYLA: And until then take good care of your cows.