Ep 40: An Asexual Experience at Pride
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Ace people at Pride
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Here it is.
SARAH: Here it is. So, this is an exciting I guess, maybe, episode because you know what I did last weekend, Kayla?
KAYLA: I do, but they don’t. What did you do?
SARAH: I went to Pride, but I didn’t go to just any Pride.
KAYLA: Sarah’s first Pride, she went all out.
SARAH: I was like – I mean, okay, I didn’t plan this, it was just the people I live with were like, let’s – Okay, I need to give you context. I went to San Francisco Pride, which is like, San Francisco is the gay city. I don’t know the history of all things Pride, but it is one of the biggest Prides, and it’s one of the most famous Prides.
KAYLA: I feel like it’s ‘the’ Pride.
SARAH: Yeah, it’s like ‘the’ Pride. So I was there.
KAYLA: She did it.
SARAH: It wasn’t like something I came to California intending to do –
KAYLA: You were just there.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because you just live there right now.
SARAH: Well I don’t live in San Francisco; San Francisco’s five hours away but one of the people I live with is from the Bay Area –
KAYLA: Oh, I didn’t know that.
SARAH: We went and we stayed at her house. Also, I didn’t do anything for the L.A. Pride because I doing things that weekend.
So I went to Pride, which was a time. We only went to - So the way SF Pride is, is there’s Saturday which has all of the ticketed events, so bands performing and whatever else you pay money for, I don’t know. And then Sunday you have the parade, so we were only there on Sunday because we didn’t want to pay for things.
KAYLA: So the day you pay for things, where does that money go?
SARAH: I have no idea. It probably goes towards paying the people who work Pride? I can’t imagine they’re all volunteers. I’m sure some of them are, but I can imagine they’re not all volunteers. I’m sure they have to get permits to use the streets –
KAYLA: That’s true.
SARAH: Probably helps pay for that. I highly doubt anyone makes any considerable profit off of it.
KAYLA: I mean, we can get into the capitalism of Pride later. But continue.
SARAH: So I went to Pride. I’ll just start from – Well. okay. The day before we went to Pride, we went to another Ultimate Frisbee game. We’ve now gone to two (laughs) because one of the people I live with plays Ultimate and the games are cheap, so we just go sometimes. And they were giving out little rainbow flags, which was like oh, that’s nice. Festive.
KAYLA: Hella cute.
SARAH: So I took one, because it was free, but I was just thinking how I was kind of uncomfortable claiming that flag, you know?
KAYLA: Because you’re not gay.
SARAH: Right, and so I was a little bit – I brought it to Pride, but I was a little bit nervous to have it with me, almost? So that’s context.
So then on Sunday, we had to wait – So we took the train into town, we had to wait literally an hour to even get the tickets, because everyone was going to Pride, and it was just us and a bunch of queer folk.
KAYLA: Love it.
SARAH: Also some allies and then a couple of random people who were trying to get to the Giants game –
KAYLA: (laughs) They didn’t even know what was coming for them.
SARAH: Yeah, unfortunate.
KAYLA: They picked the wrong day.
SARAH: So we waited in line forever, and then we finally get on the train.
KAYLA: There was a dog.
SARAH: That was on the way home, I’ll tell you that at the end. But we got on the train, luckily we were one of the first stops on the way there, so we actually got seats, because by the time we got to where we were going it was literally packed with people wearing rainbow colors. Also, sidenote, there were some teenagers right by us on the train who I don’t – Okay, they were talking really loudly, so you know –
KAYLA: Me, my brand.
SARAH: I don’t think any of them were queer, I think they were just going to Pride for funzies, which a lot of people do. It took us forever to figure out how old they were, because they could have been our age, but they were not acting like it, and so we were like, how old are these people? We eventually did some sleuthing, well okay I did some sleuthing, eavesdropping, and I realized they had just graduated high school, going to college, which is a dangerous time.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because you think you’re hot shit, and you’re not.
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: You tell ‘em.
SARAH: But anyway, this is not totally relevant but I find it just a time. So they were all wearing rainbow things, there were four girls and two guys and they were talking very loudly. They were also openly drinking a bottle of Fireball –
KAYLA: Oh my God.
SARAH: Which, for those of you who aren’t American, just a quick reminder about how the laws work here.
KAYLA: [They were] Breaking several at once.
SARAH: Yes. They were not of drinking age, because they’re 18. Drinking age here is 21. And also, there’s open carry laws in the United States where you cannot drink alcohol in a public place –
KAYLA: Unless it’s in New Orleans.
SARAH: Yeah, I don’t know what New Orleans is doing.
KAYLA: New Orleans has open carry, that’s what they’re doing.
SARAH: Oh, okay. But yeah, in the United States, you can’t do that. When I was in Germany, people would drink beer on the train all the time, but that’s legal there.
KAYLA: See, that’s bananas to me, I just cannot imagine that.
SARAH: Yeah. So super illegal, and they were openly doing it. And that’s why at first, I was like, are they 21? Are they really only breaking one law here?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: No, they were just doing it very openly, and I was like okay, I’m not going to call the cops on you, but you seriously trust that someone else isn’t, you know?
KAYLA: I’m sure there [were] cops everywhere.
SARAH: Not on the train, but yeah. But they were talking loudly about their life and their woes and one guy, I was very impressed, there was one guy who looked pretty bro-ey, he was wearing all black and you know, whatever. And he voluntarily let the girls put glitter on his face.
KAYLA: We love, we love that.
SARAH: And he, they put the smaller glitter and then they had bigger glitter and he was like, oh I want that too.
KAYLA: Did I tell you - kind of off topic - my boyfriend went to a music festival recently, and he let them put glitter just on his nipples, and he was wearing it around?
SARAH: I hate that.
KAYLA: Yep. Anyway.
SARAH: Okay. But then the other guy, who – It was clear the other guy and this one girl were a couple, and this other guy who looked way less frat-ish and way less douchey than the other guy, he wouldn’t let them put glitter on him, because he didn’t want people to think he was gay.
KAYLA: Boy, you’re going to Pride.
SARAH: I know, what are you doing? But then they were just talking loudly about how they were like, one girl was like, yeah I’m up for anything. So she’s just basically saying how she’d just do any drug you handed her, and I was like, that’s a horrible idea. And then she was like, if someone was like let’s go key someone’s car, I’d be like yeah, whose car?
Anyway, it’s really not related to Pride, but it was part of the experience, you know?
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: So then we got out of the train and we got up to the ground, and the train station let out right at the end of the parade. So here’s the thing, most parades, when you think of a parade, you think of a thing that has a start time and an end time, and at the beginning, everyone is lined up and then they all go, at once.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But the way this was, was that there would be long stretches of time where there was no one.
KAYLA: Oh, that’s weird.
SARAH: So when we got there, we got there a lot later than we intended, because we had to wait an hour for tickets, and also we just left marginally later than we meant to. So when we got there, I was like, we missed it, it’s over. (laughs)
(10:00)
KAYLA: The party’s over.
SARAH: It’s over. But it wasn’t, it’s just no one was there for 20 minutes.
KAYLA: That’s so weird.
SARAH: But then it started back up and there were some floats and some people. It turns out one of the interns I work with at my one job was there, and I didn’t know it, and he was in the parade and I saw the people he was with in the parade, but I didn’t see him –
KAYLA: That’s wild.
SARAH: Even though we were on the same side as each other. It was wild, because I didn’t see him and he didn’t see me, but he was there. So yeah, we watched the parade, that was a time. And that’s kind of the only thing that happens on Sunday, but I can tell you about some of the things I saw.
KAYLA: Well yeah, I think – I’m just curious as to how you felt about all of it as an ace person?
SARAH: The whole thing with the Pride flag and being kind of nervous about having it, that was all kind of dispelled once I got there, because everyone had a rainbow flag, even people who were there who were clearly allies, or clearly just there because they were wanting something to do on a Sunday, and they’re 18 and they think they’re hot shit so they get drunk on a train, I don’t know.
KAYLA: (laughs) Not talking about anyone in particular, it’s fine.
SARAH: But everyone had one and so I didn’t feel as weird about it, because just because you had a Pride flag, didn’t necessarily mean you were claiming that identity. So in that context I felt okay about it, I think in any other context – I don’t know if that is true for all Prides, or if it was just that Pride.
KAYLA: I feel like that’s probably true for most Prides.
SARAH: Probably.
KAYLA: It seems like something that would happen.
SARAH: But yeah, rainbow flags were flying everywhere. A lot of people had flags, 99% of them were rainbow flags, I would say.
KAYLA: That’s too bad.
SARAH: Most of them, because a lot of people in the parade had little mini ones, or whatever. I saw a handful of bi flags, I saw a handful of pan flags, which was exciting.
KAYLA: Oh, that’s exciting.
SARAH: I saw a handful of trans flags. I saw one on our way out that was a non-binary flag, I didn’t even recognize it.
KAYLA: Is that the one with the circle on it?
SARAH: No, it’s purple and yellow; it’s purple, yellow, black and white. And so at first, I just saw the purple and I was like (gasps) an ace flag, and then I realized it wasn’t.
KAYLA: And it wasn’t.
SARAH: Yes. We were there for a couple of hours, it’s not like we spent the entire day just sitting there and watching, but we were there for a decent amount of time. I did not see a single ace flag.
KAYLA: Aww.
SARAH: And obviously no aro flags, because that’s even less likely. The only ace-related thing I saw was there was one person who just had a t-shirt where it said “Human” on it, and then each letter was in one of the flag colors. And they had the ace flag colors on one of the letters. That was the only thing I saw that was ace-related.
KAYLA: That was stupid.
SARAH: And it’s like, obviously I didn’t see everything that was happening there, there must have been something somewhere. I mean, there was actually a person there, I found this out afterwards, a person there who we know from school who is ace umbrella who was there, and I didn’t even know.
KAYLA: So there was someone else.
SARAH: Obviously, I was not the only ace person there, but I didn’t see anything from my vantage point.
KAYLA: That sucks.
SARAH: You what I did see?
KAYLA: I’m afraid to know.
SARAH: I personally was very proud to have avoided seeing this, but there were no fewer than two people there, just with their dicks out, like completely.
KAYLA: (laughs) My God.
SARAH: And it’s like that’s – I mean, I don’t know exactly what the indecent exposure laws in SF are, but that’s illegal.
KAYLA: I’m pretty sure that violates some laws.
SARAH: Yeah, so in addition to that there was one person in the parade who – I only saw him from the back, he was probably like, 60.
KAYLA: Ew.
SARAH: And from the back he was wearing nothing, but he was in the parade, so I’m going to guess he maybe had some minimal something –
KAYLA: I hope he did. I sure hope it does.
SARAH: Yeah. And then there was another guy we saw from the back who looked, he was from a distance, and it looked like he wasn’t wearing anything, but then I got a little bit closer and he was just wearing – It was basically nothing, but he didn’t have an exposed dick.
But yeah, so there were two people. I didn’t see either of their dicks, thank God, although one of them I saw and I realized he was completely naked. This guy was not wearing anything.
KAYLA: Just butt naked.
SARAH: Yeah, and I sort of realized and I was like, I’m not looking any further down.
KAYLA: I just don’t get it. Why?
SARAH: Yeah, because the other people I was with, they saw both of them, and the first guy, who I very intentionally did not look at, he was Winnie the Pooh-ing it apparently, so he was wearing a shirt.
KAYLA: (laughs) That’s really funny.
SARAH: He was not wearing any pants but apparently, he was touching his dick –
KAYLA: No. No.
SARAH: And from what I understand, it wasn’t like, oh I’m jerking myself off, but he was definitely touching himself.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don’t like that, I don’t think that’s –
SARAH: And that’s, I mean it’s not legal.
KAYLA: I just don’t think that’s appropriate to do anywhere in public. I don’t care what event it is, why do you feel the need to do that?
SARAH: Yeah, the other guy was completely butt-ass naked, but at least he was just walking around like that, he wasn’t –
KAYLA: I just don’t get what point that you’re trying to prove, I guess.
SARAH: I don’t either, and –
KAYLA: I don’t get it, except if this is just your excuse to get some of your voyeurism out. I really don’t –
SARAH: I just – That’s kind of the thing with Pride, so this is not true of everyone obviously, everyone does whatever at Pride, but there is a higher population of people who are more scantily-clad, which is you know, you do you. But I always wonder, what is it about Pride that makes people want to do that?
KAYLA: I don’t even know that it’s specific to Pride though, because if you think about music festivals and events like Coachella, those are also places where people dress like that.
SARAH: I suppose.
KAYLA: So I don’t know that it’s all that specific to Pride. I think the whole thing where people have dildos and they’re throwing them around, that’s pretty Pride-specific. But I don’t know, wearing weird, and extravagant, and also nothing things, is kind of just what people do at events now, I don’t know.
SARAH: And it was pretty warm out, warmer than SF usually is, because I found out, I knew SF had a pretty mild climate, but the average temperatures, the difference between the summer average and the winter average is only 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: I thought it was more than that, I thought it got warmer in the summer, and a little bit cooler in the winter. Also, they have palm trees there, I didn’t realize they have palm trees there. Sorry, not relevant.
KAYLA: I guess they do, I don’t know.
SARAH: I thought it was a little too far north, but I guess not. I guess it’s also probably because I thought it got a little bit cooler than it does. Anyway –
KAYLA: This has been your weather update.
SARAH: (laughs) This has been your weather update with Sarah. But yeah, it was warm that day; the previous day had been a lot warmer. I was wearing a jean jacket because the previous day I had gotten sunburned, and also I was trying to protecc my shoulders. And there were some times when I was pretty warm, but I was never dying, so it wasn’t like I’m dying of heat, let me wear as little as possible. It was just like, this is what I want to wear, I mean you do you. I’d rather not see your dick –
KAYLA: (laughs) Can I share a live update with you from our social media?
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: We just got a message on Tumblr, it just says “Well hello there, you busy?” and it’s from a Tumblr called happychicks11.
SARAH: It’s definitely a porn blog.
KAYLA: It is, but they don’t even have any pictures up, so it seems like it’s a very new porn blog. Anyway, I get that porn blogs aren’t looking at our blog first before sending us messages, but this is an ace blog, dude. Like, what? Anyway, continue.
SARAH: (in a low voice) Dude.
KAYLA: I just got an update on my phone, thought I’d share with everyone.
(20:00)
SARAH: Iconic. So there was that. At no point did I ever feel super uncomfortable or anything, like I didn’t “belong” there. But with that said, there was also nothing on me that indicated that I was ace. There was no indicator that I was ace, and frankly the other people who I was with, who are all queer, they – You can dress stereotypically gay or whatever, you can wear something that’s very clearly Pride-related, but none of us were, and so I felt like I was participating in Pride as an ally, that’s what it felt like. Because I wasn’t obviously presenting myself as a member of the community, and I didn’t see myself represented in anyone else.
So I didn’t really have a bad experience, I didn’t feel uncomfortable, other than the times people had their dicks out, but I also didn’t participate in Pride as a member of the community, is what it felt like.
KAYLA: So it didn’t feel like it was for you?
SARAH: Yes. It wasn’t not for me, it wasn’t actively –
KAYLA: It wasn’t actively excluding you, but it wasn’t –
SARAH: But it wasn’t including me either. And so that’s kind of the weird thing is like, I felt like I was there as an ally which is not – I mean, I am an ally to the community, but I’m also a member of it.
KAYLA: But you’re also in it.
SARAH: And it was just kind of like, it was wild to me that I saw two guys with their dicks out, and not a single ace flag.
KAYLA: Yeah, what are the odds, man?
SARAH: Like, seriously? Going in though, I was telling Kayla this a while ago, I was pretty nervous to go, because I know that aphobia really hits its peak at Pride and I was like, this is ‘the’ Pride.
KAYLA: It was out and about.
SARAH: Yeah, this is the biggest Pride, which means if there’s going to be a mass mentality that’s anti-ace, it’s going to be big because this is a big Pride. And there was none of that, but also there was no ace presence, because I wasn’t an ace presence, so there was nothing to provoke that either.
KAYLA: I don’t know, from the vibes you got, do you think if you had a flag or were wearing something, do you think the potential for someone to say something mean to you would have happened?
SARAH: I don’t know. I think it is true that a lot of people don’t know what the ace flag looks like.
KAYLA: That’s fair.
SARAH: So they may not recognize [it] without having to ask. Because the gay flag is pretty iconic, most people know the trans flag, I would say most people know the bi flag –
KAYLA: What does the bi flag look like?
SARAH: It’s purple, blue and pink.
KAYLA: Oh yeah, I knew that.
SARAH: The pan flag, I had to kind of be reminded of what it was, but I’ve definitely seen that flag before, and then the non-binary flag I had to look up. So [the] odds of people, the vast majority of people, knowing what the ace flag looks like, I don’t know? In general, it’s a pretty positive environment, but there’s still that fear, especially after the aphobia that we encountered recently.
KAYLA: Yeah, we’ve had a fun month.
SARAH: Yeah. But now I’m feeling like I would almost now be more afraid of going to a smaller Pride, if next summer I were to go to Motor City Pride, I think I would be a little bit more afraid because it is smaller, and so there’s a bigger chance of people taking notice.
KAYLA: A bigger chance someone’s going to notice you.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because if you’re at SF Pride, there’s so much going on you don’t –
SARAH: There are people everywhere.
KAYLA: You can hardly even see anyone because there’s so many people.
SARAH: Yeah, there are people literally everywhere, and there are – Yeah, but I think if I were at a smaller Pride, especially if I had an ace flag or if I was actively presenting myself as an ace person, which I didn’t in this case, but if I did at a smaller Pride, I think I would be frankly a little bit more nervous.
And it’s like, I don’t necessarily go in expecting something to happen in terms of aphobia and shit, but it’s constantly in the back of my head like, it might. It’s not like I’m going in being like, everyone is going to say horrible things. That’s not what I expect.
KAYLA: No, but it’s –
SARAH: But it’s just like, the fear of the one person –
KAYLA: That’s a valid fear.
SARAH: The fear of the one person inciting a larger thing is there, still. So that was that.
KAYLA: Do you think you would ever go to another one, or a smaller one?
SARAH: Yeah, I think I would. I think it would be interesting to participate as an ace person, because I didn’t really have anything ace-related. Kayla got me an ace shirt for Christmas last year, and it totally didn’t occur to me that Pride was happening while I was here –
KAYLA: (sighs) It’s fine.
SARAH: I could only bring so much stuff, Kayla. So yeah, I just forgot to bring it, which is sad, because then I didn’t have any ace things. I considered – I wanted to buy an ace flag a while ago, but it never happened, because it’s kind of hard to find them. (laughs)
Yeah, I think it would be interesting to participate as an ace person, I think it would be interesting because you know, last year when I wanted to Stuttgart Pride, and then I couldn’t because it was the day after I left, they did have a special thing for ace umbrella –
KAYLA: I mean, I’ve seen some pictures online recently of Prides going on that had ace people walking in it, or ace events and stuff, it’s been cool.
SARAH: Right. So that’s a thing I think would be cool, if the one you’re going to has it.
I think in terms of SF Pride specifically, I wouldn’t go out of my way to go again, but if I were in the vicinity, I could go. It is a lot of people, it was a lot going on.
We watched the parade for an hour, maybe more than that, and we only saw a little sliver of the parade because it was basically going on all day, just with random breaks in the middle. Most of the parade stuff was gay stuff; there were some floats that had drag queens on them, which is a gender thing but it’s also it’s pretty closely intertwined with the gay community, like gay men.
Because you do kind of get the feeling that this is about gay men, you know? Because they’re the best represented group in the community, they’re one of the most prominent groups just because early on, it was primarily gay men and trans women that lead the movement for a lot of reasons. A lot of them have to do with privilege in that it’s easier for gay men to fight for their rights than it is for gay women to fight for their rights, just because of society things.
KAYLA: Someone sent us an article on Twitter, I’ll have to – I don’t really remember, I’ll have to go back and look and I can post it on our Patreon. I think it was a survey done a couple of years ago about gay women’s reaction to Pride. This survey found that gay women didn’t really feel included in Pride and that it wasn’t really for them, and that doesn’t surprise me, because it’s not.
SARAH: I saw a thing recently that I found interesting that I’ve never seen before where someone was like, why isn’t there a lesbian Pride flag, why is the gay and lesbian flag the same one? Which is interesting.
KAYLA: I wonder if they should have their own?
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Well (pause) then it gets into things of binary gender, though.
SARAH: Yeah, it does. I don’t know if I agree with that, that’s the first time I’ve ever seen it. But it was an interesting thing to think about.
KAYLA: It is interesting.
SARAH: Because also the rainbow flag is kind of a blanket flag for everyone –
KAYLA: It’s like the queer flag.
(30:00)
SARAH: Right. Which makes it especially difficult for ace people, I think, because for most people in the community, even if the rainbow flag – it’s also just called the pride flag, that can be used as a blanket flag even if it’s not the most specific flag to them. If you’re bi, you can still use that flag, because you do still experience same-sex attraction. As someone who doesn’t, I feel less comfortable using that flag as a blanket flag.
KAYLA: I literally could never, because I’m straight. Even though I’m queer, I guess.
SARAH: Right, apart from a Pride situation, where – But here’s the thing, here’s the interesting thing. I felt okay having the rainbow flag at a Pride event where I was basically, I wasn’t there as an ace person. If I had been obviously presenting my aceness in some way, I don’t think I would have been comfortable having the Pride flag.
KAYLA: That’s really interesting.
SARAH: I think the only reason I was comfortable was because I was, for the purposes of that Pride, I was straight. I did not in any way present myself in a manner that I would indicate that I was anything but an ally. Which is interesting.
Like, if someone handed – Towards the end while we were there, some guy from one of the floats had a bunch of extra rainbow sweatbands and he just threw them at us. So if someone gave me something, I would be like, yeah sure. But I wouldn’t feel necessarily comfortable both representing my aceness, and using the rainbow flag at the same time for, you know, reasons.
Where was I going with this?
KAYLA: You’re alright.
SARAH: I got distracted, I was talking about something else and then I got distracted – Oh, I remember. As I said earlier, it was primarily rainbow flags, and obviously I didn’t see the whole parade, but of what I did see, very few of them were specific to a particular sexuality within the queer community. There were some that were specific to – There was one float that was all about empowering queer Black people.
KAYLA: That’s cool.
SARAH: And there were a couple that were like that, but there were very few, if any, that were specific to a sexuality other than just gay. You saw people marching in the parade carrying other flags, but there was never – At no point, that I recall, did I see a group of people all marching, and everyone in that group had a flag that was not the Pride flag.
KAYLA: So I was just googling while you were talking, ‘SF Pride ace’ and there was people marching together that were ace.
SARAH: That’s nice. Again, I didn’t see the whole parade –
KAYLA: I know, I was just curious whether –
SARAH: Well, that’s good. Would have liked to see more of it though.
KAYLA: I mean, yeah. But at least there were a couple.
SARAH: Yeah, that’s good. In general, it’s very – It’s oriented towards gay people, predominantly gay men. Which, there’s no harm, obviously, in celebrating and representing and empowering those people, but I would like to see – And I think it’s growing, but I would like to see better inclusions of other groups, whether that be sexuality, or gender identity, or even a more specific thing, like the group who was talking about queer Black people.
KAYLA: I guess I’m just so used to the internet where I see so much of everything represented, especially going on our Tumblr, the people we follow. I guess I just kind of expected Pride to be like that, which maybe was just a bit hopeful?
SARAH: Right, because what we see depends on what communities and spaces we put ourselves in. And that’s not necessarily representative of the community at large. So we put ourselves in the spaces of the queer community that are safe for ace people, and often those places that are safe for ace people and really accepting of ace people include a broader variety of identities, because some of those other identities are looking for a place that’s safe for them, too. So there may be a greater diversity in the places we put ourselves in, for that reason.
KAYLA: That’s fair.
SARAH: But I’d just like to see a greater inclusion of other groups, other people. You know what was so stupid?
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: (laughs) We were standing watching the parade and then the guy next to me, you know how for gay men some people have titles, sort of?
KAYLA: Oh, like bear, or –
SARAH: Yeah, right. So this guy next to me was a bear, I don’t – Do you just call them a bear? Bears?
KAYLA: I don’t know.
SARAH: Anyway, we’re going to do that. He was talking to his friend, boyfriend, partner; I don’t know who this person was, but he was talking to them, and he was basically saying that they should have their own parade for bears.
KAYLA: (laughs)
SARAH: Like, their own thing, their own Pride.
KAYLA: Was he serious?
SARAH: He was very serious, and I was like, I mean if you want to organize that, I guess.
KAYLA: I mean, I’m not going to stop you, but –
SARAH: Yeah, but also there’s a, there’s also the whole thing of some people being like, kinks should be represented at Pride.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And I think the whole bear or whatever, that sort of thing, falls under that category where it’s like, you do you man, do what you want, but that doesn’t make it a – (pause) It’s hard to explain without insulting someone.
KAYLA: No, I agree. Sometimes I think about that, because some people’s arguments with asexuality is like, well it’s just a sexual preference, blah blah blah.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: But that’s included, so should a foot fetish or something – Because they’re both things that you can’t control, but it’s also different and I couldn’t tell you why, though. I don’t have a strong argument of why.
SARAH: I think maybe the best way I can think to explain it is that, with asexuality or any other sexuality that’s considered a sexuality within the LGBTQIA spectrum, it dictates what type of person you are or aren’t attracted to, so it’s a broad thing. Like, I am attracted to women; I am attracted to non-binary [people], it’s a broad stroke.
Whereas with a kink or a bear or that sort of thing, it is true, it is not necessarily something you can control, however, it’s much more specific and it’s also just – I don’t know how to explain it without – I don’t want to shame people who are in those groups, because I think whatever you experience is valid, and I think that you shouldn’t necessarily be shamed for what you like, but I think there’s just a difference between the broad strokes of sexuality versus the more specific like, I’m into this specific thing.
Think about it this way, so if you’re a gay man and you’re like oh, I’m really into brunets, that’s a preference, and it’s maybe not something you can control, maybe you just like brunets. But that doesn’t make it a thing that should be put on the same level as the fact that you’re gay, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah, I think it’s also a spectrum with that too, how much it matters to your identity and how much it changes your life. But I think that kind of thing, kinks and stuff, it’s more of an action you do with a person, whereas sexuality is literally dictating who the person is, or is not.
SARAH: That’s what I was trying to say before, but I was really struggling.
KAYLA: Either way, I think it’s very nuanced, it’s a hard thing to talk about. Like you said, I don’t know even how to articulate it right.
(40:00)
SARAH: Especially also as an ace person, for kink stuff, I don’t – If you’re representing that in a public place, or you’re showing it in some way in a public place, you have to recognize that some people aren’t going to be comfortable with that, [with] seeing that.
Like for me, again it depends on how you’re representing your kink – This is really weird to explain, but that’s the kind of thing that I don’t particularly want to see, as an ace person, and I recognize that you can do whatever you want, and I encourage you to do whatever you want, but I don’t necessarily want to see it.
KAYLA: But don’t you think that’s almost similar to the arguments that homophobic people say, where they’re like, you can be gay, but I don’t want to see it. Don’t you think it’s similar to that?
SARAH: That’s the thing I was going to say next is there’s a very – It’s a fine line, but it’s also a very blurry line between, when does that become intolerance?
KAYLA: I feel like maybe it’s – Well, with kinks, it’s very specific to sex so it’s like, you obviously, unless you’re into it I guess, don’t want to see gay sex, just like you don’t want to see someone acting on their kink, but you’re okay with them representing it, and talking about it.
SARAH: Right, and so it’s like the fact that I don’t want to see that is intertwined a lot with my sexuality; my sexuality is a lot of the reason why I’m uncomfortable with that. Again, I don’t have any issue with it, and I think, you do you, or not you, you know, whatever the events that are happening are (laughs) but I think representing kinks and representing other identities related to sexuality is an interesting discussion, but also a difficult one to navigate and define.
KAYLA: Yeah, it’s hard to parse out.
SARAH: Yeah, because on one hand, I’m super uncomfortable with your kinky shit, but on the other hand I recognize that you can do what you want, so I’m not going to tell you not to. But yeah, it was just partially funny but also partially like, okay, what are you doing? Like when the guy was talking about how he wants his own Pride just for bears (laughs) I was like, okay.
KAYLA: On the one hand, because bears are usually bigger guys so if it was supporting bigger queer people, because I follow someone on Twitter that does a lot of activism for fat, queer people and they use fat as they’ve reclaimed the word fat, and it’s this whole thing. So if that’s what they’re talking about, yay. But if it’s just bears, that seems highly specific.
SARAH: Yeah, there was something about the way that he said it that just made me feel a little weird, just because it seems, it almost felt like it was a little bit exclusionary. I’m here for celebrating who you are, and if you want to have a thing for you and other people who have that identity, go for it. But the way he was saying it, it was almost like it should be only for this group and – I don’t know.
But you know what? If he wants to start a parade for bears? Go for it. Do it, buddy.
BOTH: (pause)
SARAH: (laughs) So yeah, that was that. Do you have any other questions?
KAYLA: Not really.
SARAH: Okay, because I hit everything I wanted to say. TL;DR, it was les scary than I thought, but also I didn’t really experience it as a queer person, necessarily. Obviously, I’m always a queer person, but I didn’t make it know to other people there that I was queer, and so I didn’t necessarily experience it in the shoes of a queer person. I didn’t go into it meaning to do that, that wasn’t intentional. It was just what happened.
And there’s also kind of a lot of argument about whether or not allies have a place at Pride, and I’m not going to go into that. There were plenty of allies there. It was really cute, when we were at the train station we saw a lot of kids with their parents, who were going to Pride and I was like, yes.
KAYLA: And then there were some dicks being out, that’s like, there’s kids there, dude.
0SARAH: Oh yeah, there were kids there. When we were watching the parade, there was a couple, they were straight, I think. They were with someone I think who was gay, and they had a two-year-old kid and they were just watching the parade with him. Because you know, it’s a fun thing to do, but also there are people with dicks out. Not that that kid’s really going to remember it.
KAYLA: But still.
SARAH: Yeah. So that’s that. What’s our poll?
KAYLA: I was thinking [of] asking, specifically directed to our ace and aro listeners, if they would be comfortable going to a Pride and representing the ace community?
SARAH: Okay. So do we want to have it be like, are you comfortable representing your identity at Pride? I’m ace umbrella, yes; I’m ace umbrella, no – because we do have straight people who listen. We can only do four options.
KAYLA: Yep.
SARAH: What I want to do is I want to do like, ace, yes; ace, no; queer, yes; like otherwise queer, yes; queer, no and then –
KAYLA: Well, this one just isn’t for straight people, they just don’t get it.
SARAH: Fifth option is, I’m straight.
KAYLA: Okay. Like if straight.
SARAH: Yeah. I don’t to exclude, I don’t want to be exclusionary, Kayla.
KAYLA: I can make it a thread and add more options for the straights.
SARAH: (laughs) For the straights. Yeah, okay. So let’s do –
KAYLA: Don’t they get enough already, Sarah?
SARAH: Listen – So would you feel comfortable openly – Because that’s also an interesting question for straight people, do you feel comfortable going to Pride and intentionally identifying yourself as straight? Because some people don’t want straight people there.
KAYLA: Yeah, I wouldn’t, why would you – Okay. How do you even openly identify yourself as straight? There isn’t a flag for that.
SARAH: I don’t know.
KAYLA: What, a shirt that says ‘I’m straight’?
SARAH: I mean, I think a lot of people at Pride – In life, it’s usually straight until proven otherwise, but at Pride it’s just super ambiguous.
KAYLA: Okay, here’s what we’re going to do. There’s going to be a poll that is, would you feel comfortable going to Pride representing your sexuality? Ace, yes; ace, no; otherwise queer, yes; otherwise queer, no. But there’s going to be a second poll, would you as a straight person be comfortable going to Pride as an ally? Yes or no.
SARAH: Okay, yeah that’s good.
KAYLA: So everyone go to their respective polls, because now we’re being extra and have two.
SARAH: Yay. So you can find that poll on our Twitter @soundsfakepod, you can also find us on – I almost said Instagram. (laughs)
KAYLA: We’re not there. I mean, we are personally, but like, no.
SARAH: You can also email us at soundsfakepod@gmail.com. We’ve been getting a lot of emails and tweet direct messages recently.
KAYLA: Yeah, it’s been fun.
SARAH: It’s been great. So do that if you want. We’re also on Tumblr at soundsfakepod.tumblr.com.
KAYLA: You can send us weird messages, like that porn site.
SARAH: Yeah. You know what I realized? I told Kayla right after we recorded this last one, [after] I recorded the ending of last week’s. Me and Kayla should totally promote our own Twitters, just saying. So my Twitter is much better than it used to be –
KAYLA: Oh my God, get over yourself dude.
SARAH: I have quality content. Hey, I tweeted a tweet last week that got 37 likes. That’s a lot of likes.
KAYLA: I had a tweet that got over 100 a couple of weeks ago.
SARAH: What tweet was that?
KAYLA: My Parks and Rec one.
SARAH: Yeah, because strangers liked it.
KAYLA: Does that not count? Doesn’t that make it better? Okay, fuck off.
SARAH: Okay, it does, but I had 37 of my own followers. I have less than 200 followers, that’s a good ratio.
(50:00)
KAYLA: Anyway –
SARAH: Anyway (laughs) my Twitter is @costiellie. Everyone thinks it’s @costellie, but it’s not, there’s another i in there.
KAYLA: It’s also very extra to spell. Mine is much easier.
SARAH: Sorry. Sorry that everyone has – That there’s no Sarah Costello handles out there, what do you want me to do about it?
KAYLA: Cry. Anyway, if you want to follow a significantly better Twitter, you can go to @kayla_kas.
SARAH: My tweets on average do better than yours, I’m just saying.
KAYLA: Yeah, but I have more followers.
SARAH: Yeah, which means that my tweets are better, because I have a better ratio of people liking my tweets.
KAYLA: Fuck off.
SARAH: (laughs) Follow us on Twitter, we’re thirsty.
KAYLA: Or don’t, whatever at this point, who gives a shit?
SARAH: Also, if you have any ideas of what I could change all of my social media handles to that resemble my name –
KAYLA: Sarah, I’m tired, it’s 11 over here. I’m sleepy. Knock it off.
SARAH: Okay, yeah. So Patreon, we have a Patreon at patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Last week we were like hey, patrons, help. And none of you answered us, so we’ll do what we want.
KAYLA: So we did whatever we wanted, bitch.
SARAH: So we’re changing the perks a little bit; we’re just shifting them. So $5 patrons, we’re no longer promoing anything, we’re just saying your name. Sorry. And $10 patrons we’re still promoing things; so, cool.
So for our $2 patrons we have Sara Jones, and – I didn’t put the new ones in here. Kayla, what’s the other $2 patron?
KAYLA: Hold on. $2 we have Sara Jones and Keith McBlaine.
SARAH: (yells) And Keith McBlaine (laughs). For our $5 patrons, we have Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney and Perry Fiero.
For our $10 patrons we have Emma Fink, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Emma T Fink. And then we have Tristan Call who would like to promote their friend Harley who you can find on DeviantArt and Tumblr @rationallyparanoid.
Thanks for listening, and hey, if you have been to a Pride, especially if you’re ace umbrella, tell us about it. We want to know.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Yeah. So that’s that. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.