Ep 74: The Bachelor From an Aro Ace Perspective
Sarah: Hey, What's up, hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay. A podcast, were an aroace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me.
Kayla: And a demistraight girl, that's me Kayla. Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
Sarah: On today's episode, The Bachelor. Sounds Fake But Okay.
Both: Sounds Fake But Okay.
Sarah: Welcome to the pod
Kayla: M'fence.
Sarah: What?
Kayla: M'fence.
Sarah: What does that mean?
Kayla: I'm saying hello to a fence.
Sarah: Why would you be greeting a fence?
Kayla: Well, because today's episode is on The Bachelor.
Sarah: Oh god. Well, Kayla just told you, I guess what our episode this week is about. So we've been wanting to do an episode about The Bachelor for a while now. But neither Kayla nor I watch The Bachelor.
Kayla: No.
Sarah: Although we know plenty of people who do.
Kayla: Yes.
Sarah: Kayla explain to the people who may not know what The Bachelor is, what The Bachelor is.
Kayla: Okay. So The Bachelor is a reality TV show, it started in America. I know they at least have an Australian one now 'cause our friend Miranda... Oh, backtrack it.
Sarah: Update.
Kayla: Update. So you all remember Miranda has been a guest at least like three times. Our most frequent guest, she's downstairs right below us right now.
Sarah: She listens to all of our podcasts live because her room is below mine and we have thin walls. Hello Miranda.
Kayla: I was hoping for a response.
Sarah: I was hoping she would hear us, but she might be watching TV or something.
Kayla: But anyway, she was on a very early episode about awkward flirting.
Sarah: Episode six or something.
Kayla: Yeah. It was eons ago.
Sarah: Very early on.
Kayla: But she has given us permission to announce that she is now in a relationship.
Sarah: And this isn't new news. We just kind of forgot-
Kayla: I just-
Sarah: About the fact that-
Kayla: Forgot that it was relevant-
Sarah: Relevant to this.
Kayla: To this. So she would like to announce that it worked and it came-
Sarah: Her awkward flirting bore success.
Kayla: Dreams do come true, I think she said.
Sarah: So interesting.
Kayla: So anyway, but anyway, Miranda was-
Sarah: The Bachelor.
Kayla: Miranda was showing us who the Australian Bachelor is going to be.
Sarah: He's getting a PhD.
Kayla: He looks like a nerd.
Sarah: He looks like exactly her type.
Kayla: Yes. Anyway, so The Bachelor is a reality TV show where one man who is single, a bachelor, goes on and then 20 single women go and they all live in a mansion together. And all the women date this guy at the same time. And then each week he gives a rose to his favorite girl of the week. And then one gets kicked off and he is like, "I don't like you enough for you to stay." And then it progresses through the weeks and they eventually get to a point where he goes home with the girls and meets their families. And then they meet his families and then they go-
Sarah: His families, his multiple families?
Kayla: Maybe. And then they do a vacation somewhere and they have fantasy suites. So they, Ooh, spend the night together. Ooh, what's going to happen? And then-
Sarah: Sex.
Kayla: At the end ... Recently, it seems like they always propose at the end. You don't have to.
Sarah: Yeah, you don't have to propose, but it often happens where they propose.
Kayla: So they've got to be like 15 seasons in now.
Sarah: Yeah, I think it's something like that.
Kayla: A majority of the couples don't work out.
Sarah: No. The first one did.
Kayla: The first ever couple is still together and doing very well. There's also The Bachelorette, which is the same thing, but reverse it.
Sarah: Yeah, 20 men and one woman.
Kayla: And then there's Bachelor in Paradise.
Sarah: Bachelor in Paradise, which is when you ... I think it's previous contestants?
Kayla: Yeah, but there's men and women-
Sarah: There's men and women.
Kayla: At same time, and they all kind of date or something.
Sarah: And then the British one is Love Island.
Kayla: That's funny.
Sarah: So a lot going on. But this has been a staple in American reality television for a long time now. And I've never been into it because to me, I mean it's so heteronormative. I was thinking recently, how would it work with gay people? But then we were saying that, well what happens if some of the people end up dating each other instead of the person that they supposed to be dating.
Kayla: Well, there was ... I don't think it was the American Bachelor, but where was it that two of the women left together and started dating?
Sarah: I think it was Singapore.
Kayla: Yeah, it was I think an Asian version. I can't remember where exactly of The Bachelor, but two of the women contestants both quit because they were in love with each other and it was magical.
Sarah: The Bachelor, gay... It was The Bachelorette.
Kayla: Oh, okay.
Sarah: Hold on. Oh, no.
Kayla: Anyway, while Sarah is looking this up.
Sarah: No, it's not American. I want it to...
Kayla: Anyway-
Sarah: Oh, it was Vietnam. The first thing I thought was Vietnam. And then I was like, no, it's Singapore, I don't want to mix up these countries because it makes me seem uninformed. It was Vietnam.
Kayla: Okay. Anyway, this show is pretty wild from any perspective. The fact that you're dating 20 women or men at once, and then by the end of 20 weeks you are suddenly in love. And often they tell many of the people that they're in love with them. And it's just wild.
Sarah: There's so much kissing. They just-
Kayla: I'm not done yet.
Sarah: Sorry. They just show so much kissing.
Kayla: They do. They edit a lot of kissing to it. Anyway. So it's wild from many perspective, but especially from an aroace or a demi perspective, I think it's extra wild to be like, first of all, you expect me to become attracted to this person at all. And second of all, it's supposed to be within a span of like...
Sarah: Couple weeks.
Kayla: Couple weeks.
Sarah: Yeah. And all of the people are stupid attractive, unrealistically. And then of course the producers also want to make good TV. And Wow did they do that this season. I almost said this semester. But it's kind of like any other reality show where they're going to pick people that are going to make for the best TV. And so yes, they're going to pick the most attractive people, but they're also going to pick the people who will make drama and will be catty and that sort of thing. So there's drama between the girls in the house. Like the other night they just had the women Tell All episode.
Kayla: Well they also, the women slash men there, the contestants, they're not allowed to have the internet there. And when the other people are off on their dates, they just have to sit in the house and sit there.
Sarah: Talk to each other.
Kayla: Which we realized was a great opportunity to finally read all the books we've been meaning to read.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: But anyway.
Sarah: So, maybe we'll just go on The Bachelor just so we can read some god damn books.
Kayla: The thing about it though is-
Sarah: I would lose all my Snapstreaks.
Kayla: You would. It's also very expensive to go on The Bachelor slash Bachelorette. Because if you've ever watched it-
Sarah: Well probably more so for The Bachelor 'cause Bachelorette, it's just like...
Kayla: Suits are expensive though, nice ones.
Sarah: Yeah, but you don't need to have as many.
Kayla: That's true. But the women, a lot of times I think every Rose ceremony, wear these fancy long dresses. They're kind of like prom looking dresses and they have to buy all that stuff themselves.
Sarah: Yeah. It's crazy.
Kayla: It's expensive stuff.
Sarah: So we've been wanting to do this episode for a while where we watched some of The Bachelor and just talk about it. Now, when we watched The Bachelor this week, it actually wasn't for the podcast. It was because the internet was going crazy. Because the current season of The Bachelor is this guy named Colton Underwood, who apparently was a former NFL player, used to date Aly Raisman, I guess. I don't know. But he's the contestant.
Kayla: He was on last season of The Bachelorette. Oftentimes someone that lost the season of Bachelorette goes on to be the next.
Sarah: To be the next bachelor or bachelorette, depending on what their gender is. Yes. And there was just so much drama 'cause this guy, I mean, as stupid attractive as they all are. And he's 30 and he's like, "I'm still a virgin." And so of course, most people think that that was why they chose him for The Bachelor.
Kayla: Well yeah, because he said on The Bachelorette last season, oh, I'm a virgin. And then they edited the clips together to make it look like the girl was laughing at him and making fun of him. And then she was like, "I wasn't, they just made it look like that." But anyway, so I think that's why they chose him, because that's just good TV.
Sarah: It is.
Kayla: However-
Sarah: Virginity is a construct, but whatever.
Kayla: Here's my thing about him being a virgin.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: Is A, it's a construct. B, who the fuck cares? C, he's not.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: Because he said ... they do the confessionals where they're just interviewing them and he was like, "I've done other stuff. I've just never gone all the way."
Sarah: It just depends on how you would define virgin.
Kayla: Yeah. But
Sarah: I try not to define virgin 'cause it's fake anyway.
Kayla: I try not to. But also the idea that virginity is lost once there is vaginal intercourse is very heteronormative-
Sarah: It is.
Kayla: To me.
Sarah: I mean everything about this reeks of heteronormativity.
Kayla: I know, but he's not a virgin.
Sarah: Okay. Anyway.
Kayla: Or at least it's not like he hasn't done anything. So there's extra no reason to make a big deal out of it 'cause it's not like he's never seen a naked woman, he's done it.
Sarah: But people are just like, how can he be so attractive and a football player and 30 and still be a virgin? So whatever. Good TV. And then they have been teasing all season this moment where he just jumps a fence.
Kayla: A very tall fence.
Sarah: A tall fence.
Kayla: Not short one, a tall fence.
Sarah: And it happened in the episode this past week.
Kayla: Yeah. We didn't watch it live.
Sarah: We didn't watch it live. But because everyone on Twitter was talking about the fence jump, because they'd been building up to it forever. The host was tweeting about it on Twitter because it was funny.
Kayla: The memes were so good.
Sarah: The memes were really good. And so we were like, we have to watch the episode now.
Kayla: Yeah. So the day after it aired, we got it On Demand and we watched it.
Sarah: And we watched it.
Kayla: And that is the only episode of The Bachelor or Bachelorette that Sarah and I have ever seen.
Sarah: Yes.
Kayla: And it was quite the one to start on.
Sarah: Oh yeah. I mean it was extraordinarily good television. It was so interesting.
Kayla: It really was because it made you feel so sad for these people in a lot of ways. Because I was like-
Sarah: Well, 'cause we went in thinking it was just going to be like, the drama like, haha. But it ended up being ... I was genuinely sad for them.
Kayla: Well, yeah. So what happens in a nutshell.
Sarah: Spoilers.
Kayla: Spoilers. I hope not. If you watch it just for sake.
Sarah: Hey, let them watch what they want to watch.
Kayla: Fine, you can watch it. We watched it, whatever-
Sarah: Don't Bachelor shame people.
Kayla: Whatever, for another time. I'm sorry. So basically they're down to the final three girls. And so they do fantasy suites. So they're in Portugal and they each go on one ... they go on a date with him all day exploring the Portuguese countryside. And then if he invites them to, they go and stay the night in a suite together. And the cameras are there for a little bit and then they go away and it's like, Ooh, do they have sex or what?
Sarah: The whole shtick is like, oh, are we having sex? And then for him it's especially a big deal because they're like virgin.
Kayla: So he has the one date with the one girl. It goes great. They didn't have sex. In the confessional, she was like, "we weren't as physically intimate as I had wanted, but it's fine." And then it was like, that's very funny. And then he had the date with the second girl and he was like, "I am in love with her." But then she revealed, my dad doesn't approve of this. He revealed-
Sarah: In the previous episode, he had met her family and he basically asked her dad, like...
Kayla: Like if it comes down to it, do I have your permission to marry her? And he was like, "well that doesn't sound very sure. I'm not going to give you pre-permission or pre-blessing."
Sarah: He basically said no.
Kayla: He says no. And she did not know that.
Sarah: She didn't know that.
Kayla: And he told her.
Sarah: He told her. And she was very upset by it.
Kayla: And then she was very upset and they flew her dad out-
Sarah: For the drama.
Kayla: To Portugal. For the drama. And he was basically like, "you need to be a hundred percent sure if you're going to do this, there should be no doubt in your mind." Which I think is terrible advice personally.
Sarah: Well, yeah. And I think it was a really interesting conversation they had later that night when they were talking about it. Because I understood where she was coming from in not wanting to dive in too fast to something that wasn't right at that moment. But also he was literally saying, all relationships go at different paces, just because your parents knew it from the first moment they knew each other. My parents met in 10th grade and didn't start dating until college. That doesn't mean that they have a horrible marriage because it wasn't love at first sight.
Kayla: Yeah. 'Cause her dad was saying, when I married your mom, and there was no doubt in my mind. Which I think is an unrealistic thing to think, because who isn't going into a marriage or a long-term relationship, with at least some worry. That's impossible. Relationships are hard. Of course it's going to be some worry.
Sarah: Like the whole wedding day jitters. No. Jitters day is wedding day.
Kayla: Yes.
Sarah: No, but that whole idea of wedding day jitters, it makes sense because-
Kayla: It's a big deal.
Sarah: No matter how much you love this person, no matter how much you know that marrying them is the right thing to do. It's still-
Kayla: It's a lifelong commitment.
Sarah: It's a lifelong commitment. And this is the symbolic and also legal time that that is being set in stone.
Kayla: Yeah. And not that weddings and marriage is inherently very powerful. Inherently, but for a lot of people-
Sarah: But the symbolic value of it and just the knowledge of this is legally binding now, if I want to get out of it, it's going to take work.
Kayla: It's going to take a while.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: So anyway, basically her dad was like, "I don't like this." So then she and the guy later in the night had this very long conversation where she was basically like, "I don't want to tie you down to this because I'm not ready and in the end, I don't want you to choose me and then I'm-
Sarah: And she was like, "I'm going to leave."
Kayla: And she was like, "I don't want you choose me because what if I end up saying no, and you could have had one of these other girls, I want you to get what you came here for." And he was like, "but I love you."
Sarah: You can tell that he's genuinely in love with this girl.
Kayla: He was shaking.
Sarah: He was actually shaking. And she was like, "stop shaking." He was like, "I can't."
Kayla: Yeah. He was like, "I love you. I'll go as slow as you want, anything for you. I just want you," whatever. And then she left. I think she's going to come back. But anyway, it was so sad for a multitude of reasons because A) you can see that he obviously loves her or cares about her very deeply and she cares about him.
Sarah: Yeah. She cares about him a lot.
Kayla: But it just wasn't working out. So that was sad. But also it was sad that they were manipulated to be in this situation and put on camera. Well they did agree to it, but...
Sarah: Yeah. Well, and the part where she walks away at one point and then he walks in and then they both come back and at one point you see her walk away and it's clear that she's talking to a producer, she's talking to them. Because apparently there are producers that handle certain-
Kayla: It's like each producer has five girls to manage and tell to be dramatic on TV or something.
Sarah: She was genuinely very upset. And so she went to the producer, and I know this wasn't in the episode, but they showed it in the previews for the next episode, at one point you see Colton after the whole fence jump thing, which we'll get to in a second. But after the whole fence jump thing, he's just hugging someone, sobbing. And that person looks to be a producer.
Kayla: Yeah, I'm sure.
Sarah: So I'm sure you get some sort of bond with these people because they're with you during this really weird time.
Kayla: Plus they're there to try to gain your trust. But yeah, for me, it was weird because I've been in a breakup that's kind of like that, where I was willing to wait and make things work. And then the other person was like, no, I don't want to hold you back and left, whatever. Anyway, so for me I was like, oh fuck, this is too real. So that was sad. But then I was also like, I know they agreed to this, but it doesn't make it any easier for them to deal with something like this on TV with a bunch of people just watching them.
Sarah: But then it was so riveting that I couldn't not watch it.
Kayla: Yeah.
Sarah: I think at one point someone said, you can't write this shit.
Kayla: No. You can't.
Sarah: You can't. It was so emotionally charged.
Kayla: And it seemed like ... that's the thing about reality TV is it really seemed so real. Maybe he's not as in love with her as he was putting on. Maybe it was just the trick of editing a lot of the stuff, but it seemed so real.
Sarah: Yeah. Well, and that's the thing too about ... We haven't even gotten at the fence jump yet, whatever. The thing about reality shows like this is that you can make fun of them all you want, you can critique them from the standpoint of this is heteronormative and that is not good. Or you can critique the way that they treat the people on the show and that they treat their lives as something to exploit. But with that said, at the end of the day, a good reality TV show is so entertaining. And that's part of the problem is this cycle of exploitation, this cycle of heteronormativity that's pushed by shows like this, in part because they wouldn't totally work the same if they were queer, just because of the logistics of things. It just keeps pushing that. And then it keeps pushing this idea of this is what a perfect hetero ... this is what a perfect relationship looks like, and this is how things should proceed. And people watch it because it's so interesting.
Kayla: Well, people just love watching people. It's why YouTube and vloggers are so interesting is 'cause people just fascinate people. But anyway, so she leaves, they have this very emotional conversation. They're sobbing, he's shaking. And then she gets up and she's like, "I need to leave. I'm leaving the competition."
Sarah: She gets in the car and she goes.
Kayla: Yeah. And then he is standing there and he goes up to a room or something-
Sarah: Goes back to the fantasy suite where they were going to stay.
Kayla: And then you can hear him through the door, and the cameras follow him. He kind of pushes one away. And he's like, in the room, you can hear him 'cause he's still micd up. And he's like, "I'm getting out of here," whatever. So he runs down stairs-
Sarah: He tears his mic off,
Kayla: Yeah. He rips his mic pack off. People are following him, cameras are running after him, producers are running after him. He rips off the mic and then he goes to get out of this area and there's this very tall white fence.
Sarah: And he just jumps it.
Kayla: And he just vaults this fence. And then someone at some point is get Chris 'cause that's the host.
Sarah: The host is Chris. Someone just goes, "get Chris."
Kayla: And so then Chris is walking behind him and kinda-
Sarah: They had to wake Chris up mind you. He was sleeping.
Kayla: Poor Chris.
Sarah: And then I'm sure what they did was when the drama started happening, they probably woke him up, but he had to get dressed and stuff.
Kayla: Well yeah, I'm sure once they were knew she was leaving, they woke him up and had him ready. But he was the guy kind of following Colton-
Sarah: Because he's also Colton's wrangler. He's the host, but also the wrangler of the bachelor. Yeah.
Kayla: Yeah. So he was kind of walking after him, was like, "Colton, come back" and then you jumped the fence and then Chris goes, "he jumped the fucking fence." And it was funny. And then-
Sarah: That's why we watched it because just the absurdity of this moment that we were seeing on the internet. And then they lost him.
Kayla: They found him eventually.
Sarah: They found him eventually. But they're in the Portugal countryside-
Kayla: As they said on the show, I think this is a quote from the show, "he vanished into the Portuguese countryside."
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: Also, John Mulaney just tweeted that quote and nothing else.
Sarah: Oh my God.
Kayla: It was iconic.
Sarah: Because it's nighttime, it's dark out. They're in the middle of nowhere in Portugal. I don't know. Did he have his phone on him? Probably not.
Kayla: I don't think he was probably allowed to have his phone-
Sarah: Probably not.
Kayla: At that point.
Sarah: He just leaves. And by the time they get the fence open, they can't find him. And so they are literally yelling for him like he's a lost puppy.
Kayla: They whistled at some point, I think. And it was like he was a dog. And then there was ... and I swear this is the best timing ever. There was a barking dog in the background. So it made it creepy 'cause there was just a low barking dog in the background. And I was like, this is insane.
Sarah: Kayla thought the barking dog wasn't real, but it was.
Kayla: But it was just too good. I was like, there's no way.
Sarah: But Chris was like, oh yeah, there's the barking dog. And I had heard the dog bark earlier.
Kayla: I know. But it was just too good. So anyway, that's why we watched The Bachelor, it was wild.
Sarah: I totally feel for him, he couldn't get away from the cameras without jumping the fence.
Kayla: Oh no. And after that, you would want to get away from it.
Sarah: Right. And I think part of the thing with this show is we can critique the people about, you knew what you signed up for. And I think to some extent they do.
Kayla: But that doesn't take away how hard it is to deal with it.
Sarah: Yeah. And you can't anticipate that this is going to happen.
Kayla: Yeah 'cause if you're going in optimistically, you're like, yeah, it's going to be easy breezy. I'm going to date all these women and then narrow it down to one and then she's going to love me back and it'll be great. I think there's an assumption going in, which I think is also hard, is ... so there's this assumption going in that all of these 20 women really like this guy and then he has to pick the one that he likes. But you don't think about the fact that these women are also meeting him for the first time too.
Sarah: Well, and that was part of-
Kayla: You assume that they are all impartial, are just waiting for him to pick them, when they also need to pick him back. But no one thinks about that part.
Sarah: They're kind of just currency where it's just like, this is going to be the one that I'm going to buy and she's going to belong to me now. Which is marriage, historically.
Kayla: It's assumed that all of them want him and that they are just trying to court him and he doesn't need to court them back.
Sarah: And so on one hand it's like, well, yeah, I'm sure they all find him attractive. I'm sure. Whatever. But also part of the issue with this girl ... what's her name?
Kayla: Cassie? The one that left? I think it's Cassie.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: She's so pretty.
Sarah: They all are.
Kayla: I know. Anyway, so they ended the episode with him jumping the fence. He hasn't even gone on the date with the third girl yet. We don't know where ... is he still going to go on the date with her? Or is she just chopped liver like, oh he got his heart broken last night so I'm screwed. I don't know, but I feel bad for her.
Sarah: Yeah, Cassie. I wasn't listening to anything you just said.
Kayla: I just felt bad for the third girl.
Sarah: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. She didn't even have her date yet.
Kayla: I know.
Sarah: But Cassie, part of her issue was what her dad said to her was making her kind of second guess things because she wasn't totally a hundred percent all in yet. And she felt like she had to be. And that kind of proves that there's this expectation that they're all just already in love with him because he's cute and tall. I don't know. But I mean, love is a two-way street, so I hear,
Kayla: Yeah. So I am come to be told.
Sarah: That wasn't a sentence.
Kayla: I'm in so much pain. It's just, I don't know, especially for me, because-
Sarah: As a demi individual, unpack this for me, please.
Kayla: I cannot imagine because ... I mean I sup... No, because I've dated people that I didn't know at all. I met online. And so, you go into it complete strangers, which these people do. But also I was the only one dating them. It wasn't like there was 20 people and there was the expectation that both of us needed to like each other. But-
Sarah: You know what's interesting that I just-
Kayla: It's so fast.
Sarah: The interesting thing that I just thought of is this idea that it's monoga-misnormative. Because it's basically implying that in the end, you're going to choose one-
Kayla: You're going to choose one.
Sarah: And you can't have more than one. Jumping back to this idea of this is what a relationship should look like, is one man, one woman. And it's the fact that he's dating 20 of them at the beginning is almost seen, I think by some people as this comedic thing. Like, oh haha, he's dating 20 women and now he's going to pick one. Or when it's The Bachelor, it's like, oh, lucky him. Whereas for The Bachelorette, I feel like there's probably a double standard there, but it's really reinforcing these ideas of what a relationship should look like and the timeline it should follow.
Kayla: Yeah. From my perspective, I could never, it's so ... what's the timeline that they shoot on? Do you know?
Sarah: It's some number of weeks.
Kayla: I just can't even imagine.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: And I wonder if the reason that a lot of these things don't work out is because these people truly think they do love each other because-
Sarah: They're just living in a bubble.
Kayla: Because the whole atmosphere of the show is, oh, so much love. Here's all these crazy experiences you're going to have like jumping out of a plane together. And so it seems real. But then you go back into the real world and you're like, oh, people were pushing me to feel this way. So of course I did.
Sarah: I definitely think that's part of the problem. And also the fact that you have to make snap decisions. Well, they're not totally snap decisions.
Kayla: They kind of are though.
Sarah: Every week you have to get rid of someone. Or sometimes people just leave.
Kayla: Yeah. I guess this season, I think several girls just were like, I'm done. Which I originally thought like, oh my God, that's crazy that they just left without being kicked off. But now that I think about it, no it's not. They just realize like, oh, I don't actually like him so I don't need be here. But thinking about it, the initial reaction is like, oh my God, they just left. Especially as a demisexual person, the idea of the fantasy suite thing, you're expected to have sex at that point is scary to me. I can only imagine for a demiromantic person that this would be even harder to be like ... because then the romantic feelings wouldn't even come for a long time. And so the setup just doesn't work.
Sarah: And I think also just the way it's set up is just not real at all. And so it just makes a lot of sense that they often don't work out because also just this sheer proximity and the fact that if he's kicking someone off every week, that means he's making decisions not about this person as an individual, but about this person in comparison to other individuals. Which I mean, I don't date. I've never had many suitors at once. I don't know how that works. Obviously you probably would want to pick the one that you're most into if you want to be in a monogamous relationship and you have many suitors. But it just seems kind of an unhealthy way to choose your life partner.
Kayla: It's also when you're actually dating, it's not like you have one bad date or you're not feeling it for a bit and then you just end it permanently. When he kicks them off, there's no chance of them being together ever.
Sarah: I mean, unless after the show's over he's like, I take it back. I want to.
Kayla: But that would be wild.
Sarah: Yeah that would be wild.
Kayla: I don't think it feasibly could happen.
Sarah: It would be good TV.
Kayla: Yeah. But I feel like the amount of publicity there would be would just ruin that relationship.
Sarah: Well, last season, Arie proposed to one girl and then took it back and proposed to another one.
Kayla: Took it back weeks later.
Sarah: Yeah. Weeks, weeks later.
Kayla: Yeah. It was bad. But realistically, when you're dating someone, you can just be like, I don't want to see you right now. Or let's-
Sarah: Take a break.
Kayla: Take a break. Or not go on a date for a couple weeks. Not like, I am never going to see you again.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.
Kayla: No.
Sarah: Yeah. Well and also something I was thinking about just because they showing so much kissing and the conversations, if they're not juicy enough, they just show the kisses basically. There's so much kissing and I get that ... not that everyone has to have an emotional connection to even have sex, and kissing would be even less so I would guess. But it's just like, that's a lot of people to be kissing. And my Ace brain is just like, that's so many.
Kayla: They do make out and kiss a lot of people.
Sarah: I'm sure they encourage them to.
Kayla: Yeah. Well what I was thinking is because obviously when you watch the show, all they show is kissing and they do-
Sarah: They cut together the juicy stuff 'cause it's TV. They have to make a story on every episode.
Kayla: The girls or at least the contestants because they are fighting for TV time. Obviously the main person, The Bachelor or Bachelorette is going to get a ton of TV time. So I wonder for people that really want TV time, 'cause some people do go on the show for publicity.
Sarah: A lot of people do.
Kayla: Because a lot of girls especially get famous after they're on. Famous-
Sarah: They go on the show and sure they want to find whoever, but they're really there to stir up drama and make a name for themselves.
Kayla: And it works.
Sarah: It works.
Kayla: So I wonder if they just are extra kissing and whatever, 'cause they know they'll get on TV and that makes the relationship even more fake.
Sarah: Yeah. Because then it's like, do you really want to pursue a relationship with me or do you just want to get famous? Also, just the idea that people who go on that show, they're not doing it because they're interested in you. They're doing it because they're interested in a relationship. And they looked at you and were like, okay yeah.
Kayla: And I think when they open applications to be a contestant, I don't think it's announced yet all the time, who the person is-
Sarah: No. Applications are already open for next season.
Kayla: And it's not confirmed who it is. So it's clearly not for that person. Because I know they were talking about the women Tell All, they were making fun of this one girl for always ... when they have dinners, they'll always toast each other. And the one girl always had-
Sarah: What is toasting to...
Kayla: Oh, it's like when...
Sarah: When you raise a glass and you just clink them and then you say something nice.
Kayla: When you raise a glass and you say something.
Sarah: I know a lot of cultures do that, but I also know that there's different words for it, so I just want to make sure everyone understands.
Kayla: Okay. When you raise your glass and you're like, to my happiness and prosperity or continued love forever. So anyway, they do them at the beginning of ... it seems, I guess from the way they're talking about it, every meal and they make them do it. And so the one girl was really awkward about it and always giggly and couldn't do it, which makes sense. It's awkward. So even that is fake what you're saying then. They plan activities for them. I know the one girl that he did the fantasy suite with, they kept talking about like, oh, we challenge each other. We went skydiving together. That was so bonding for us. But that wasn't their choice to do that.
Sarah: I mean I'm sure they okayed it, but it wasn't their idea.
Kayla: But how bonding is it really when it's not like they came together to do that on their own volition. It's like they're talking about these experiences that are the basis of their relationship that they basically had no say in, which, it's not real.
Sarah: Yeah. It's just manufactured love. And manufactured love does not always make it in the real world.
Kayla: Nope.
Sarah: It's just absolutely wild.
Kayla: For you, is it like extra wild do you think?
Sarah: Honestly, I don't think so because I grew up in a heteronormative world where these are the norms and this is what is shown to be what should happen. And I've lived my whole life not identifying with what is shown to me of what these relationships are and what things should look like. And so this is just another one of those things where it's just like there's that thing that I guess people are into. I mean, it's been going on for 15 seasons, so it's not a shock to me. And I feel like everything that comes up that it's like, oh, it's straight people doing weird straight people things again. It doesn't phase me because I was raised to believe that that was the norm and I just exist outside of that norm.
Kayla: That's fair. It just seems to me that for an aro person that doesn't want to date, that The Bachelor or Bachelorette is just the exact opposite of your life.
Sarah: Well I think the interesting thing is maybe why you have a more visceral reaction to it than I do is because your experience directly contradicts what's on The Bachelor.
Kayla: That's true.
Sarah: Whereas my experience just exists outside of that.
Kayla: That's true. Because you're just like-
Sarah: I don't have any experiences in dating or that sort of thing. And so there's no contradiction. It's just I can't relate.
Kayla: Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.
Sarah: And so I think that's why you might have a stronger reaction than me.
Kayla: That's fair. Because I can relate things to experiences of my own and be like, that's completely different or that's really similar. But for you there's no relating at all.
Sarah: Yeah. Which is why it doesn't faze me 'cause I'm just like, oh, straight people again. Allos again. So yeah, I would say that's my reaction to that. I was thinking, I was like, okay, if there was Ace version of The Bachelor, what if there was a QPR version?
Kayla: I said that when we were watching it, I was like, I want a QPR version of The Bachelor.
Sarah: But I was just like, but what if you all just become friends? You just become a new friend group.
Kayla: I think they should make a Bachelor for friends. But you don't have to kick anyone off unless they suck.
Sarah: You can just be friends.
Kayla: You all live together. It's like Big Brother, I guess.
Sarah: I was going to say, isn't that just Big Brother?
Kayla: You all live together in the house. And then when ... it's just Big Brother, when people suck, you kick them out. That's Big Brother. I've described Big Brother. Anyway.
Sarah: Now I'm just thinking of other reality shows.
Kayla: You know what's another wild one?
Sarah: Survivor because it's wild. It's in the wild. Get it?
Kayla: No. 90 Day Fiancé. Have you seen, it's Marriage or Love at First Sight, where these people, their wedding is the first time they see each other and then they force them to stay married and live together for a certain amount of time.
Sarah: That's wild. It's interesting because that makes me think of arranged marriages, but arranged marriages is often you don't have a choice in the fact that you are getting an arranged marriage.
Kayla: A lot of times you do have a say in who you're...
Sarah: It depends.
Kayla: Yeah, it depends. But at least these days it's I think becoming more common for people to have a bit of a say.
Sarah: And it's generally not some rando. It's usually someone that your family knows and you either be like, yes, I'm okay with this arranged marriage. Or you grow up knowing that you're going to get one. Whereas in this case, you are just choosing to marry a rando. You're just throwing a dart into Times Square and whoever it lands on is your new bae.
Kayla: Times Square is a risky place to do that because there's weird people in Times Square. And then they have cameras in their house and they force them to live together. There's something also called 90 Day Fiance, maybe that's the same show that I'm thinking of. And they made a new something for it. But that stuff is very well ... Naked and Afraid.
Sarah: Naked and Afraid is a great show.
Kayla: Here's my thing about that show. It's very entertaining. Would recommend. So a man and a woman go into the wild also very heteronormative, because-
Sarah: But not sexualized.
Kayla: No, because here's the thing. So a man, often I think usually a man and a woman go into the wild naked and they have to survive for however many days.
Sarah: For 30 days, they have to get to an end point.
Kayla: So it's kind of like Bear Grylls.
Sarah: You can tap out. But the goal is to not tap out.
Kayla: I've seen several episodes, and a lot of times one of the people that goes is like, my boyfriend or girlfriend or husband or wife doesn't want me. It's like, it's cold. So you need body heat.
Sarah: It depends where you are.
Kayla: Yeah. But the ones I've seen, they need to body heat-
Sarah: I usually see them when it's warm.
Kayla: Together for warmth or whatever, and then they're like, oh, but my significant other doesn't want me touching you or whatever. And I'm uncomfortable with this. But it's like, you came on this show knowing. What are you doing?
Sarah: Yeah. Well I think the one thing I do like about that show though is that it is, at least by the creators of the show, not sexualized in any way. Yeah, okay they blur out your bits and your lady boobs. But that's not their fault that they ... free the nipple, whatever. But it's not the producers of the show. And maybe they do want to cover the nipple of their own volition, but-
Kayla: But even if they wanted to show them they couldn't.
Sarah: The network wouldn't let them. Yeah. But I think they're ... because they're just naked walking around, but they're never sexualized at any point. It's always just about survival. It's like back to the basics of humanity without the sex basics, which is fine.
Kayla: Yeah. I mean a lot of the episodes I have seen, they do struggle with like, oh my God, they're naked. Or when they first meet, 'cause they walk-
Sarah: Oh, they feel very uncomfortable, yeah.
Kayla: Towards each other on the beach. They'll be like, oh my god. But yeah.
Sarah: A day in, they're like, okay, cool. Whatever. Another Survivor, the TV show Survivor. I feel like there's always weird relationship stuff happening on that show.
Kayla: Yeah. I feel like a lot of times they show ... I haven't watched much, but I've seen some clips of women will try to flirt with the guys to get them to on their side or to make a ... what do they call them?
Sarah: Alliance.
Kayla: Alliance or whatever. And one I was watching, this guy just walked around naked and they were like, oh my God, that makes me feel uncomfortable. Or if you go into the show when you're dating, you don't want to tell people because then they'll assume you're an alliance. That's the drama. Yeah. So there's always ... which I think I, that I don't mind because it's a very strategic game. And so doing that kind of stuff is like, yeah, if you want to win-
Sarah: Play the game.
Kayla: Do it. I don't know.
Sarah: Yeah. A lot of times the most savage people win Survivor. Boston Rob, it took him four seasons, but he finally did it. Boston Rob. I don't watch Survivor anymore, but I did when I was a kid.
Kayla: I have never watched the full season or anything.
Sarah: Oh, it's a wild time.
Kayla: I know I want to, but it seems like it's just so late in the game to jump in.
Sarah: Amazing Race is another reality show. It's always in pairs, which I get the pairs, but also it's kind of assuming certain things about relationships. That's also a good show. Yeah. I just think ... so what are our final thoughts on The Bachelor?
Kayla: I mean, it's good TV.
Sarah: It is highly entertaining.
Kayla: It's very entertaining.
Sarah: And I mean we saw a particularly good episode, but I know people who are obsessed with this show.
Kayla: Yeah. And it makes sense. Did you know I'm in a feminist class?
Sarah: No.
Kayla: My teacher, she loves to watch it and to hate watch it. There's a lot of articles in the communication study literature about The Bachelor and why it's so addicting.
Sarah: Some people hate watch it. Some people just genuinely watch it.
Kayla: Yeah. And the culture of you and your female friends getting together, having wine and drinking The Bachelor. Drinking The Bachelor, watching it every week. That culture is very interesting.
Sarah: It is definitely marketed at women.
Kayla: Yeah.
Sarah: Yes. Hard.
Kayla: Definitely.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: Yeah. So I mean, it's very entertaining. It's very interesting, the whole phenomenon. But it is extremely heteronormative. It is something that as an acespec person is, to me completely contradictory, I think to you just completely unrelatable.
Sarah: Yeah.
Kayla: And so I think it's interesting to look at it from an aroace perspective because it's just some of the furthest stuff away that you could get, I think.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think part of the thing with me too is, I mean, I've never watched The Bachelor of the reality TV shows that I have watched in my day, I've never been into the ones that are about relationships and stuff, which makes sense. But also watching The Bachelor's seen as a very feminine thing. And that's something that I've been trying to get better at, but especially when I was younger, I really wanted to distance myself from being seen as too feminine.
Kayla: You didn't want to be, that girl.
Sarah: I didn't want to be that girl. I didn't want to be girly. I didn't want to be seen as weak. I wanted to maintain-
Kayla: I think it's also ... when you picture a woman or a group of women that watch The Bachelor, a very particular kind of woman comes to mind, which is problematic.
Sarah: And so I distanced myself from that group. Not that I had a huge urge to watch The Bachelor in the first place, but there's a certain intentional step away from being seen as too feminine, whatever that means. And so it was interesting watching it and being like, this is so fucking entertaining. It was riveting. And part of the reason why reality TV is such a big thing is that it's cheaper to produce blah, blah blah blah. But people watch that shit.
Kayla: It is good.
Sarah: People hate watch it. People love watch it.
Kayla: Any type of reality TV. I love a game show. I love my boyfriend's house has been watching every season of Hell's Kitchen. And let me tell you, I used to think Hell's Kitchen and Gordon Ramsey sucked. But-
Sarah: Oh, Gordon Ramsey is a gift.
Kayla: Hell's Kitchen is such a good show. He yells at them constantly. It's incredible.
Sarah: Gordon Ramsey is amazing.
Kayla: I am obsessed with him. Hell's Kitchen is good. My dad is judging me for watching it. But it's good.
Sarah: Seeing the shows that Gordon Ramsey does with kids. Oh, he's so good with kids.
Kayla: I like watching him with his own kids 'cause they think he's stupid and it's funny.
Sarah: Yeah. Great British Bake Off.
Kayla: Oh the most calming amazing show ever.
Sarah: Fantastic. But yeah, I guess moral the story is The Bachelor's super heteronormative and there are a lot of things that suck about it. But god is it entertaining.
Kayla: Yeah.
Sarah: That's the end of that. What's our poll for this week?
Kayla: Do you watch The Bachelor one, acespec, yes. Acespec, no.
Sarah: I was going to ask a little bit more specifically of one, yes, I watch it 'cause I genuinely enjoy it. Two, I hate watch it. Three, I have seen it. Four, no. Well some people probably don't have access to it, so that has to be an option too.
Kayla: Well we only have four options.
Sarah: Then we'll skip sometimes then we'll just say three, no. Four, I can't watch it. So it's just like, have you ever, not do you watch it every week? Yeah. But would I consider that a hate watch or? I think my instinct tells me that I want it to be a hate watch 'cause I want to distance myself from ... I still have that instinct to distance myself from being seen as too girly.
Kayla: I think I would still consider it hate watching for me because I'm not pleased that I like it so much because I know how problematic it is.
Sarah: Yeah. But I think the problem with me is that I'm not sure how much of it I don't like because it's problematic and how much of it I don't like because of the associations that I have with it that those associations are problematic. So whatever, I would say I do probably hate watch it though because I'm just like, what the fuck?
Kayla: It's also you hate to love it the way we're talking about it, it's like guilty pleasure. I don't want to be enjoying this-
Sarah: But it was so fucking entertaining.
Kayla: But it's so good.
Sarah: We were genuinely so sad after watching that episode and we felt so bad for both of them.
Kayla: It was so sad. I was like, I didn't need a blast to my own past. Thank you very much.
Sarah: Yeah. But okay, so our poll, is it going to be the second, my poll?
Kayla: Yeah, sure.
Sarah: Okay. Yeah. So have you ever watched The Bachelor? One, yes, and I genuinely like it. Two, hate watch it. Three, no. Four, I don't have access to it.
Kayla: And maybe I'll do an open tweet about as an acespec person, what are your thoughts on it?
Sarah: Yeah, I think that'd be good.
Kayla: Yeah.
Sarah: Kayla, what's your beef for the week? I came up with some beef for the week just now when we were talking about game shows, my beef of the week is that Alex Trebek has stage four cancer.
Kayla: It's so sad. And listen-
Sarah: Alex Trebek is the host of Jeopardy. Jeopardy is a game show that I used to have no interest in until our house started watching it every single weekday and Wow, it's a great show.
Kayla: It's just like trivia.
Sarah: It's just trivia. And here's the thing about Alex Trebek is I have complained many complaints about Alex Trebek.
Kayla: Sarah for some reason doesn't like Alex Sarah.
Sarah: Well the thing is, he's just a dick. He just makes fun of people on the show and makes really dry sarcastic remarks at people and clearly has no interest in these people.
Kayla: I feel like you do the same thing though.
Sarah: Not just to random people on the street, but-
Kayla: You make fun of people.
Sarah: Okay, but these are people he does not know.
Kayla: That's his brand. I don't know.
Sarah: Well it is. So I'm always just like, oh, he's such a dick. I hate him. I don't really hate him, but he's such a dick. But now I feel bad for thinking this, he's going to die.
Kayla: He has stage for pancreatic cancer, I think.
Sarah: Which I looked it up-
Kayla: 5%.
Sarah: 3%.
Kayla: Really?
Sarah: Five year survival rate is 3%.
Kayla: And he, in the video announcing it was like, I'm going to beat it. It's fine. And I was like, I love that you think that, but I just don't know Alex.
Sarah: There is no Jeopardy without Alex Trebek. He's been doing it for so long.
Kayla: He hosted a different game show before the, a very old one with cars.
Sarah: Really?
Kayla: Yeah. My mom likes to watch it.
Sarah: Also, he was like, I can't stop doing this, I still legally have three years of my contract.
Kayla: So funny.
Sarah: But yeah, I think there is no Jeopardy without Alex Trebek.
Kayla: Yeah, it is really sad. I'm sad. What's my beef for the week. My beef for the week because I've been getting these headaches that travel up the back of my neck and then around my head into my eye socket. And what? Why me? I should probably get it checked out. But if anyone's a doctor and wants to diagnose me.
Sarah: Okay. All right. Well you can find our poll or tell us about your beef of the week or send your good wishes to Alex Trebek on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. We also have a website soundsfakepod-
Kayla: What else do we have Sarah?
Sarah: I'm getting there.
Kayla: Okay.
Sarah: soundsfakepod.com. And on that website you can find links to all of our other social media, which now includes Instagram. instagram.com/soundsfakepod is where you can find us.
Kayla: Or just out at soundsfakepod.
Sarah: We took some pictures.
Kayla: We took very official fancy pictures.
Sarah: I edited them. Editedted them.
Kayla: Sometimes I just look them because I just really look like how they were edited to look.
Sarah: You're welcome.
Kayla: Thank you.
Sarah: So yeah, we're going to ... also, we've started posting our little-
Kayla: Like sound bites from the episode.
Sarah: Little sound bites. So those will be on Instagram. So hit us up at soundsfakepod.
Kayla: Yeah, I think I might also try to put the polls on Instagram stories too.
Sarah: Oh that's wonderful.
Kayla: I'm going to see about that.
Sarah: That'd be interesting.
Kayla: Keep a lookout. They might be there.
Sarah: We've been posting some little stuff to our stories. It's fun. Yeah. So we can be found there. And we also have a Tumblr, you can email us all sorts of fun things. Hit us up. We also have a Patreon if you want to give us your money. patreon.com/soundsfakepod.
Our $2 patrons are Keith Mc Blaine, Roxanne, Alice is in space, Amy, Austin Siegel, Anonymous and Quinn Pollock. We have so many patrons.
Kayla: I know.
Sarah: Our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Fenny, Perry Firo and Jeannie who I know. She's my aunt.
Kayla: It's Sarah's aunt.
Sarah: Hi Aunt Jeanie.
Kayla: She listens?
Sarah: Thank you. I think so. Why else would she give us money?
Kayla: I don't know. My mom bought us microphones, she doesn't listen. It's because I told her not to listen. She doesn't need to hear about my sex life.
Sarah: Oh, she gave us a nice little sponsorship.
Kayla: She did.
Sarah: Our $10 patrons are Covenant Tesla, who can be found on Twitter at dirtyunclecovenant@Tesla_M_K. And Sara Jones who can be found at @eternalloli. I always want to read it alloli, eternalloli everywhere. And Arcness who would like to promote the Trevor Project. How wonderful. And our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White. You can find his portfolio ... I am trying to talk too fast.
Kayla: This is incredible.
Sarah: Nathanieljwhitedesigns.com and our anonymous donor would like to promote Spring.
Kayla: Yes. Cool. Also just thank you for such great responses to last week's like poll and episode rating.
Sarah: Hi new people if you've even made it this far.
Kayla: Yeah. Maybe you just follow us on Twitter and then were like, I'm good. But our question from last week truly blew up. There were some really cool answers and really insightful things. So I'm going to try to build out that resource page in the next month or so. School.
Sarah: Well, we'll hit you with that Ted talk at some point.
Kayla: Yeah. So thank you guys for that. That was very ... and thank you already for so much love on our Instagram, we have like 60 followers. We're almost a 500 followers on Twitter.
Sarah: I can't believe we're famous.
Kayla: I can't either. Honestly it's a blessing.
Sarah: All right, well thank you again for everything. Thanks for listening. And tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
Kayla: Until then, take good care of your cows.