Ep 58: Social Media and Sexuality
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Living on the internet.
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod. I can't believe Kayla lives on top of the internet.
KAYLA: Some days, it really do be like that.
SARAH: (laughs) It do.
KAYLA: You know what I'm saying?
SARAH: Before we get into this week's episode, we have some updates from last week, because politics happened.
KAYLA: Literally yesterday. We're recording this the day after the midterms.
SARAH: We're recording this on Wednesday, November 7th. Last night, I was very stressed.
KAYLA: She was.
SARAH: Sorry for talking about this so much but also not sorry –
KAYLA: She's not sorry.
SARAH: Because it's very important in America and a lot of people are like, politics doesn't really impact my life and it's like, no, you're fucking privileged, check your privilege.
KAYLA: I saw a tweet by some probably old Republican white man that was like, 99% of your life won't be affected by this.
SARAH: I saw that. Not true.
KAYLA: And I was like, that's probably because you're white.
SARAH: I know. I saw a picture of this guy who was wearing a Beto shirt and his friend was wearing a Make America Great Again shirt, and he was like, we're still friends. I was like, yeah, because you're a cis, straight white guy in Christian Texas.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: What the fuck? Anyway. Also, this country is stupid powerful and so the things that we do definitely influence other countries.
KAYLA: Yeah. Unfortunately.
SARAH: I saw multiple non-Americans being like, please vote because this impacts me too.
KAYLA: One of my professors is Swedish and so she's here on a green card. She was like, we had a great day in the country yesterday. I'm only here on a green card so I couldn't vote, but it was great to see. I was like, what a lady.
SARAH: Yeah. My friend from Austria was like, I can't vote so please do it for me. Not to overstate the importance of America, because I feel like we also do that as a lot, as a country, we're just like, we're so important. We do have a big influence.
KAYLA: We're unfortunately important in some ways. I wish we weren't, and I wish we didn't think we were so much, but in some cases, it does affect world politics a lot.
SARAH: A lot, yeah. Very large world power. But blue wave, am I right, ladies?
KAYLA: She's right.
SARAH: I mean, it's not like a tsunami but it's definitely like a tropical storm wave. You know? GOP, they're scared. We freaked them out.
KAYLA: Are they?
SARAH: Well, a lot of people were like, well, blue wave, my ass. Okay, there was some tough losses. We lost seats in the Senate and that was a real ass. That was not good.
KAYLA: That was unfortunate.
SARAH: That was really bad.
KAYLA: But also, the popular vote.
SARAH: Also, the odds of us actually winning the Senate were very low, because there were only nine Republicans in the Senate.
KAYLA: If you look at the straight number of votes the Democrats took everything. It's just gerrymandering.
SARAH: Electoral college. And Beto lost, so sadly. Andrew Gillum conceded in Florida, but there's actually going to be a recount because it's that close that they're required to recount. If it's within a certain number, they're required to recount, and so hope may not be lost there yet. Stacey Abrams is refusing to concede until every vote is in. Either way, that was the election where the guy she was running against, Brian Kemp, is literally in charge of the election. He did a lot of voter suppression.
KAYLA: Yay.
SARAH: If her loss is within the margin of people he suppressed, yeah. But still voter turnout is way up. A lot of people mobilized, a lot of people voted/canvassed/donated. Young people got hecka involved, big mood. We took the House.
KAYLA: We did take the House.
SARAH: We took the House, which means we can block stuff now.
KAYLA: Also, me and Sarah live in the state of Michigan, and the entire state of Michigan is blue.
SARAH: I was looking at the State Legislature, House and Senate are both still Republican, but we now have, or we will once she gets inaugurated, we'll have a female Democratic governor. A female Democratic –
KAYLA: Secretary of State, Attorney General.
SARAH: A female, Democratic, lesbian Attorney General.
KAYLA: I don't even know what Attorney General does.
SARAH: I don't either, but she's gay and she kissed her wife when she won.
KAYLA: That's very exciting. The first gay Governor was elected in Colorado, previously quite the red state.
SARAH: He's not the first – What?
KAYLA: Colorado used to be very red.
SARAH: Really?
KAYLA: Historically, yeah.
SARAH: Oh that's fun. Not the first openly gay person to be governor, but the first openly gay person to be elected governor.
KAYLA: Yes. First Muslim women were elected.
SARAH: First Muslim women. One of them was from Michigan, one of them is Minnesota, which is two fun states for Muslim women.
KAYLA: Yeah. We have a large Muslim population.
SARAH: Also, if you look at Michigan, Michigan has the largest Muslim population outside the Middle East. She also was uncontested. I don't remember her name, but the woman from Minnesota, I can picture her face, she did run contested and she won. I saw some stats. There's now more than 100 women in The House or in Congress in general? Either way, not as many as I would like, but much better.
More queer people than ever in politics. Even a fact that because Beto, for those of you who don't know, Beto O'Rourke was running against Ted Cruz for Senate in Texas, and Texas is historically super, super, super red, and Beto came within two points, so within 2%.
KAYLA: It was very close.
SARAH: For Texas, it was an incredible, incredible feat. A lot of people are like, Beto O'Rourke for president in 2020.
KAYLA: Yeah I saw that, it's funny.
SARAH: I wouldn't be mad. It's a really big moral win. As you said Democrats took more popular votes than Republicans did in terms of the Senate, even though we lost three seats. We did all of that in spite of rampant gerrymandering.
KAYLA: True. Just think about what would happen. Yeah the proposal in Michigan –
SARAH: To redraw the districts in a non-partisan way passed.
KAYLA: So did legalizing weed.
SARAH: Weed is going to be legal in Michigan.
KAYLA: Which is pretty wild.
SARAH: And we passed a thing that's going to allow for a ton of election reform.
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: So it's going to be a lot easier to vote, which I complained about several times on this podcast, how hard it is to vote, especially for college kids in Michigan, and it's going to be made a lot easier. Also in Florida, they passed a proposal that 1.4 voters in Florida who were previously banned for life, because they had a felony, are now able to vote in Florida.
This is Sarah from the future, I am a fucking idiot. I said 1.4 voters, I meant 1.4 million voters. Kind of a big difference there. 1.4 million voters.
That is 40% –
KAYLA: To which I said, that's the entire state of Florida that has committed a felony.
SARAH: True.
KAYLA: Have you looked at Florida? I'm sorry for any of you in Florida, but have you seen Florida?
SARAH: Let me give you the facts.
KAYLA: Have you seen the Florida Man?
SARAH: I'm trying to give you a statistic.
KAYLA: Have you seen the Florida Man?
SARAH: 40% of Black males in Florida just gained the right to vote.
KAYLA: That's true. Aside from all of the Florida Men, if you just think about the amount of people of color that are in jail for probably no reason.
SARAH: Yeah, also the thing with Michigan legalizing weed though is that in addition to that, we need to reform the justice system for people who are incarcerated.
KAYLA: Well yeah, but it's not going to go into effect until 2020. It’s not going to happen for a while.
SARAH: It's going to be a hot second before there's actually weed jumping around.
KAYLA: Anyway. I know that several of you – Do you have more?
SARAH: I have another thing.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: My House representative who I fucking hate with everything I am, his name is Mike Bishop. He is no longer my House representative, Elissa Slotkin won.
KAYLA: He was winning the entire night, and I was not talking to Sarah about it. I mentioned some updates to Sarah, but I specifically to our other roommate was like, Mike Bishop is winning. Don't say anything.
SARAH: Yeah, I was pretty freaked and then she pulled ahead. It was like 95% reporting, and then she pulled ahead. She ended up winning by 13,000 votes, it’s a lot.
KAYLA: That's not many.
SARAH: Compared to the fact for a while, she was only up by 1,000. Also, I don't know what actually happened with the Wisconsin governor race, but at one point it was within 200 votes.
KAYLA: I don't like that.
SARAH: It was nuts. So Elissa Slotkin won. Also Haley Stevens –
BOTH: Obama's Chief of Staff.
KAYLA: If you're from Michigan and you're in the area –
SARAH: She has a really nasally accent.
KAYLA: You've seen her fucking commercials. I'm sure she's great, her voice is awful.
SARAH: Elissa Slotkin and Haley Stevens both flipped districts in Michigan. Haley Stevens is in the district where we currently live and where Kayla voted, and Elissa Slotkin is in the district where me and Kayla are both from, and where I voted.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: So, exciting.
KAYLA: Which is wild to me, because where I come from, I should go back and look at how my county voted. I'm sure it was quite Republican.
SARAH: Oh your county went – Because I was looking at the numbers. There's Livingston County, which is you. There's Oakland County which is me, and then there was Ingraham County which is our roommate, Evan and Ingraham County is what saved it because that's Lansing and East Lansing.
(10:00)
KAYLA: Yeah I'm sure Livingston county didn't help out anybody, that bumfuck town.
SARAH: Well yeah and that's why I was a little bit freaked because –
KAYLA: I really should have voted at home, but anyways.
SARAH: When I was looking at the reporting numbers, CNN showed it by county and it was Oakland County, 98% in. Livingston County, 96% in and then it was like Ingraham County, 92% in and I was like, will the 8% of people in Livingston County save us? And they did.
KAYLA: You mean Ingraham County.
SARAH: Yes, sorry.
KAYLA: Anyway, the blue wave. We realize that not all of you are from America, so this is probably a lot. We received some DMs from someone on Twitter who very sweetly explained, because I think in the last episode we mentioned not understanding how the UK works.
SARAH: (laughs) Yeah.
KAYLA: And so she, they, I don't know actually. I'm sorry, I don't know, I shouldn't assume, anyway I'm sorry. They very sweetly explained how it works. I'm not going to go through all of it, because I truly am not smart enough to understand all of it. What I did think was funny was they were explaining some of their parties, and they mentioned the far right was the UK Independence party, and they got Brexit and now I guess they don't do anything, because they got what they want and they don't do much anymore, so I thought that was funny. But they have the Tories which is their Conservative Party.
SARAH: Conservative Party.
KAYLA: And they said that's for the posh people. And there's still a socialist party but they don't help the "average Joe." What was also funny is then they also said we have the Labour Party, and they said that they think it's like our version of Republicans.
SARAH: It's definitely our version of Democrats.
KAYLA: Obviously there's no reason for them to know the difference between Democrats and Republicans.
SARAH: Oh yeah, I didn't even know the difference between Democrats and Republicans till I was –
KAYLA: I just thought it was funny because they were like, I think it's your version of Republicans. And then they proceeded to explain something that sounded exactly like the Democrats which was equality in wages, and better pay, and average people problems. And so it's Democrats, not Republicans.
SARAH: So I was right about the Labour Party.
KAYLA: Yes. So anyway, I just thought it was funny because to us, that's so obvious and then what we don't stop to think about how to other people, literally they couldn't give two shits about our two fucking parties.
SARAH: Yeah. Also, the Green Party, the Libertarians, the U.S. Taxpayer's Party which fucking google them, they're super ultra conservative Christian, it's wild.
KAYLA: No, I'm good. Anyway, so thank you to Aspecintothe0cean if you want to follow them. AInthe0cean, the O is a zero, for sending that. It was very sweet and enlightening, because I'm stupid and American. Also, some other people told us, we asked people what laws they think would help ace people?
SARAH: Yeah, our poll last week.
KAYLA: There were some interesting ones. So we have tax laws, property inheritance laws with basis around marriage versus being single. So I think we talked about that.
SARAH: We touched on it but we didn't go into too much detail.
KAYLA: Yeah. I think we touched on it and then I was listening to a different podcast later in the week, and someone was talking about how much tax benefit you get from being married, and I was like, oh my God.
SARAH: And Kayla messaged me and freaked out. She's like, we didn't mention it. I was like, you kind of mentioned it.
KAYLA: I didn't realize how much tax benefit you truly get from just being married, it's pretty wild. Another person said comprehensive sex-ed which yes, would benefit everyone. This one shook me to my core.
SARAH: Hit me with it.
KAYLA: I think I already told you but anyway –
SARAH: I already know but I forgot.
KAYLA: I was fully wild.
SARAH: You were fully wild?
KAYLA: I was fully wild. In some countries, a marriage is annulled due to lack of consummation. And then our roommate, Miranda who is downstairs and hears every episode live because the walls of our house are very thin, hello Miranda.
SARAH: You might have actually heard her yelling earlier. There was some yelling going on downstairs.
KAYLA: She's been on the pod for real several times, but now she's just below us.
SARAH: Hi, Miranda.
KAYLA: She was telling me how in the Catholic church, you can file for divorce – You know in the Catholic church, if you're abused or whatever, they let divorce slide?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Not consummating the marriage is one of the reasons they just let it slide. So that is fucking bananas, that you can just be like, they don’t have sex with me.
SARAH: It’s fun, yeah.
KAYLA: And then the legal platonic marriage equivalents where you can get the perks of marriage without people always assuming it's romantic. I think that's honestly the best we could do, is another way to legally bind yourself to someone else that's not marriage. There should be other ways to legally, besides blood and marriage, there should be other ways to legally bind yourself to someone.
SARAH: On one hand, I wish we would just change the social constructs around marriage, so that marriage could be that thing, but that's not going to happen.
KAYLA: Because you could have a QPR and you and your zucchini could get married, but people are still going to assume it's romantic. So on the one hand, now that gay marriage is legalized, you can technically can marry whoever you want but there's almost always going to be the assumption that it's romantic. So that sucks. I thought that was very interesting.
And we also asked people what their plans for voting day was and that was one that was my favorite. Someone said that they're going straight after work, they're going to wear layers and bring a book in case they have to wait outside for a while, which I thought –
SARAH: People have to wait in line for hours and hours and hours, especially in Georgia, voter suppression.
KAYLA: And then there’s Pizza to the Polls, I thought that was very sweet. And then our friend, Janey who was on episode I don't know, five or something, just said voting, which I was like, yeah.
SARAH: Nice.
KAYLA: So anyway, those were some things from last week that I thought were nice.
SARAH: Okay. I have a lot of political thoughts.
KAYLA: Really?
SARAH: I'm very into politics.
KAYLA: Really?
SARAH: So I wasn't feeling too optimistic going into this little election. Feel okay now, I’m feeling pretty good.
KAYLA: She's wearing her futurist female shirt.
SARAH: I am. I was wearing Captain America socks today, I felt very festive. Beto O'Rourke said in his concession speech, "I'm so fucking proud of you guys."
KAYLA: What a boy.
SARAH: I love him, he's an icon.
KAYLA: What a dude.
SARAH: My only fear though, when I first saw that was if he does run for president, the fact that he said that on live TV could hurt him.
KAYLA: Yeah. But I think it will help him more than hurt him.
SARAH: I agree.
KAYLA: I think it will get him more "street cred."
SARAH: People already think he's cool. He was in a band, he got arrested once.
KAYLA: Also, Beyonce was like –
SARAH: Too late.
KAYLA: She did it too late. I saw a Buzzfeed article that was like, "Despite Taylor Swift's Instagram post, so and so still lost in Tennessee." And I was like, oh no, Taylor Swift didn't sway the entire election, now that she finally spoke up about politics? Boy, don't even get me started on fucking Taylor Swift and her lack of –
SARAH: Fucking Beyonce, and I love Beyonce –
KAYLA: It was too late.
SARAH: But the day of the election is not the day to endorse someone.
KAYLA: It was too late.
SARAH: You need to do it at least a couple days before.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But anyway, I'm feeling okay. Let's keep up the energy, because the fight is not over.
KAYLA: How many minutes are we into this?
SARAH: Too many, it's fine. 2020 is two years away. One more question.
KAYLA: Oh my Lord.
SARAH: No, this is for the people out there. Do you guys want to have us talk more about queer issues in politics, in the United States or in elsewhere, because clearly I'd be very happy to but I don't know if that's what you guys want.
KAYLA: A spin off podcast about politics.
SARAH: Yeah, because as I discovered recently, apparently, politics is plan D? I don't know. So yeah, if that's something you want, let us know. Sorry for the really, really long intro. Um, social media. (laughs)
KAYLA: Oh my God. Good segue.
SARAH: Thank you. The first thing I have written down is, being outed. So that's where we're going to start.
KAYLA: We're going to start on the note, the sad note?
SARAH: Where do you want to start?
KAYLA: I don't know, I guess we can end happy.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: What a wave, we just were happy about politics and then we were sad and then we get – Truly, what a day.
SARAH: It’s a rollercoaster. Okay. I first "came out" on Tumblr.
KAYLA: Yeah.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: We mentioned this before but I never came out, I just started talking about it.
KAYLA: You literally never came out.
SARAH: Oh yeah, I’ve never come out to anyone.
KAYLA: I've come out for Sarah to everybody we know.
SARAH: Yep. But for me, that was a very, not easy transition, but that was for me, the best transition from being completely closeted to being not was via the internet, but Tumblr specifically. Because yes, I did have people who I do in real life know from school and stuff that were on Tumblr. But most of the people on Tumblr, I considered – I may have been friends with, but I didn't necessarily know them in real life, and I knew they were already accepting because of just the communities we were in. So it was a good transition. Also, because it feels a bit like you're shouting into the void.
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: And then that transitioned to where we are now. And I feel like a lot of people do that.
KAYLA: Well, you also came out for real on Facebook. That's how your mom found out, your family found out, and it was a long process to even get you to do that. Which – First of all, don't get your friends to come out at all, but Sarah was going through the process, and I was nudging.
SARAH: Kayla was like, just do it, you ho.
KAYLA: I was just helpfully nudging.
SARAH: Yeah, that's fine. But I do feel like a lot of people use the internet as a stepping – A lot of people are out to the internet but not out to the world. But with that said, because a lot of people do that, because a lot of people are out on private accounts, or on one brand of social media but not another, a lot of times people get outed that way, because other people find those accounts. So I actually found out my sister was gay because of Tumblr, because I found her Tumblr and I went to follow her and she was like, no, you can't do that. And she blocked me.
KAYLA: (laughs) That's funny.
SARAH: But if I wasn't logged in, if I remembered her URL, I could still look at it, and there was some gay shit and I was like, hmm. And that's how I figured out my sister was gay.(laughs) Has that ever happened with you? Have you ever figured out someone – I mean, that's happened to me also with people I knew from your life, they first posted about it on Tumblr or whatever, but has that happened to you?
KAYLA: I first found out you were ace on Tumblr.
SARAH: Other than me.
KAYLA: I have an interesting one, okay. So a lot of people – My high school, my county, like I said, is very conservative. So a lot of people, it's been years, and now I'm starting to be like, oh, you're gay. There was someone who I went to school with, I was in theater with them for a long time and back when I actually used Tumblr, I followed them on it too, and at one point, I think it was during her senior year that she came out as transgender.
(20:00)
So she messaged me on Tumblr and she was like, hey, I know we don't talk that much or whatever, but I'm out on here, I'm not out yet. Just so you know, that's why I'm posting this. And then now I see her posting, we follow each other on Twitter so now I see her transition and everything, so it's been a couple of years essentially.
SARAH: So she came out on Tumblr and then messaged you specifically to be like, don't tell people in real life.
KAYLA: I don't remember exactly, because it's been years now but she did message me and was like, hey, this is happening. And I feel like she either asked me not to tell anyone, or was just like, just so you know, this is why you're seeing this. Honestly, I could probably go back and find it if I really wanted to.
SARAH: It seems like it would take too much time.
KAYLA: Yeah, so that was there. And then I just feel like there's random people I went to high school with. There was some girl, I think I went to church with her, and that's how I knew her. She was telling some dumb ass random Facebook post that people still make about their lives, and it was something about someone asked me what my lunch was, and I had to say that my partner makes it for me every day to keep me alive. Ha ha, LOL, heart emoji. Thank you, whoever. And I was like, partner, interesting, gay.
SARAH: Gay.
KAYLA: So I feel like it's mostly stuff like that.
SARAH: Yeah, understandable. So we have a friend who something kind of similar happened to her. I asked her if I could tell this story on the pod, and she was like, you want me to send you a little summary of what happened?
KAYLA: She emailed you.
SARAH: (laughs) She emailed it to me.
KAYLA: What a delightful human.
SARAH: So she says, this comes to you in three parts. So part one was she was saying that social media is a big reason why she came out to her parents, because she was out to most people who knew her well, and she was getting more comfortable posting gay stuff on the internet. She never explicitly said anything, but she knew that because she was being open about it on the internet, it was going to get to her parents eventually.
KAYLA: Yeah, she did start being quite open about it.
SARAH: Yeah. I guess originally, before she had this realization, she was like, I'll only bring home the guys I date, not the girls, and then if I end up with a girl, that's a bridge I'll cross when I get to it. But then eventually, she was like, actually no, I'd rather tell them myself. So that's how her parents found out.
Part two was a couple of years ago, I think she said it was 2017, I believe her, sure. Twitter started doing the thing where your likes show up on people's feeds, rather than just your retweets or your tweets. So she was liking tweets that had to do with gayness and were being tweeted by women and stuff. So a lot of people she went to high school and stuff found out because of that, because it just came up on their feed, and she said nothing bad really happened, but she did say that some people did tell her that, that's how they found out.
Part three, “This is the big one”. So the following year, got a little drunk, got a little sad about parents not taking the coming out well, and posted some tweets about the importance of acceptance and loving who you want, and one of the tweets alluded to not having supportive parents. So one of her followers screenshotted the tweets, and sent them to her mom. Her mom was family friends with our friends' parents. And so that girl's mom told our friends' parents about it.
KAYLA: Which is the most high school parent thing I've ever heard.
SARAH: And she said that the follower who screenshotted it, she meant well, because she wanted to make sure everything was okay at home.
KAYLA: That's not the way you go about it though.
SARAH: But the mom, even if the daughter meant well, what the mom did was wrong.
KAYLA: Well, even if the daughter meant well, if you're worried, then go to the person who was her friend.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: You can ask her directly, are you okay? How's everything going? You don't have to go tell your mom.
SARAH: Yeah, exactly. So that caused some arguments with their friend's parents, because our friend was being openly gay online, and they didn't know about that, and then they were being defensive because they didn't realize that their poor reaction to her coming out was as damaging as it actually was.
I'll just this whole part verbatim. It says, "I know that it was my choice to be vocal about my sexuality online, and that these things could've been avoided if I were a little more chill about it, but I don't feel right about hiding that part of me because it plays a role in my sense of humor and my friendships, and those are two things that take up most of my social media content. So I'm not sorry about it, but social media does complicate things when you're living two different lives." Which is true.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think the hard thing about social media is that certain platforms have certain audiences. You know who your followers on Twitter are, they're probably similar to who your followers on Instagram are, and then your Facebook is completely different.
SARAH: Oh yeah, there's a ranking of how open I am about stuff. I'm most open on Tumblr, then Twitter, then Snapchat probably, then Instagram and then way down there is Facebook.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because Facebook is where your family is.
KAYLA: Right. And so even if you are being open online, I think you really do so with a knowledge of who you're reaching, and who you're not reaching. And so even though she says I could've been more careful, it's not like she was posting it everywhere. She knew who her audience was, she knew her parents weren't there, that her family wasn't there –
SARAH: And I don't remember if her account is private or not, but even if it was –
KAYLA: I think it is.
SARAH: If it is private, that's definitely her audience is only the people who follow her.
KAYLA: Who she wants it to be, yeah.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: So is it a violation for that person to have taken screenshots and bring it to her family? You can't say it is, because it's open social media but on the other hand, you do have a certain expectation when you're posting things about where it's going to go, and who it's going to directly.
SARAH: Right. I feel like a lot of people get outed because of little stuff that happens on the internet, and people taking that information to untrustworthy people.
KAYLA: Even being on something like Tinder or Grindr or something. If you find someone you know, you're out but it's also like, what are you going to do? Not use them if you want to, and devoid yourself of that part of your sexuality? What are you going to do?
SARAH: Another thing that I've noted down to talk about is the idea of the online persona, which I think goes hand in hand with that because people's online personas tend to be different than they are in real life, to some extent because when you're online, you're curating yourself especially on somewhere like Instagram or Twitter. To my mind, at least the way I use them, Instagram is where you curate your life to look as perfect as possible, and Twitter is where you curate yourself to look as funny as possible, and that's I think how a lot of people use those two.
KAYLA: That's how I use those two. And then to me, Tumblr is where people feel like they can just be themselves, and I've read several studies where people actually say that. And so if you think about it, Tumblr, a lot of people use it anonymously or just their first names.
SARAH: Just their first names.
KAYLA: They don't connect it to who they are. We can think about it like well if it does get back to someone and suddenly a lot of people put really personal stuff on there, they use it as a diary and then what if that gets out?
SARAH: Right. Because my Tumblr, I have never had this. So all of my social media except for Tumblr have the same @ handle. That's intentional, that my Tumblr is different. For a long time, I didn't have my name on my Tumblr. When I turned 18, I was like, it doesn't matter anymore. And I don't hide my identity on Tumblr –
KAYLA: It's not like you're just giving it away.
SARAH: Right. Okay, if you wanted to find out my full name from my Tumblr, you could do it but you would have to look for it.
KAYLA: You would have to dig. You've posted about the pod there before.
SARAH: I've posted about the pod, I have shared some posts from Instagram and I am friends on Facebook/follow on Instagram and Twitter, some of my mutuals on Tumblr. So they know my last name.
KAYLA: You would just have to dig.
SARAH: You would just have to dig. And my Tumblr is very separate from my other social medias. There are people as I said earlier, on there who I follow and who follow me that I know in real life, but they're all people who at least at some point in my life, was very close with. It's not just randos.
KAYLA: It's me.
SARAH: Okay. But yeah, I don't just have –
KAYLA: I have told you that before we actually followed each other on Tumblr –
(30:00)
SARAH: You would just go on mine, yeah.
KAYLA: I would go on your Tumblr and look at your personal tag to see how you were doing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: We stan friendship.
SARAH: We stan. And Tumblr is a very – The word I wanted is in German.
KAYLA: Kill me.
SARAH: (laughs) It's a very unique website, at least for me because different people use Tumblr very differently but for me, Tumblr is very much a community-based thing, and the community or the communities that you are in are your fandoms. At least again, in the way I use it. And so it's a very different environment.
KAYLA: You know what's interesting about that, and I've read some stuff about it in classes, I had a fandom class and we had a little section on Tumblr, is that it's so hard to make a Tumblr and understand it and that's just known, that's a thing that people complain and talk about. The barrier to entry for a social media is so high. So I feel like once you do get in, that's why it's such a community, is because you have to fight your way in and then you're like, well now that I got here –
SARAH: Yeah. Anyway.
KAYLA: Speaking of Tumblr being a community, I have noticed that a lot of the ace content and queer content I see, and maybe it's just because I run our Tumblr that we have on the pod, which I've also not been very active on, because I'm busy and I need a job. There's a ton of queer content on there.
SARAH: Tumblr is so queer.
KAYLA: On Twitter, there is too.
SARAH: Tumblr is the best.
KAYLA: Tumblr, it's everywhere.
SARAH: Tumblr is where I learned, or at least the gateway to me learning everything I know about sexuality.
KAYLA: Yeah, same.
SARAH: Because you have your social justice warriors which get made fun of a lot, but that idea of acceptance and of diversity is really rooted in Tumblr, and there are tons of bad pockets of Tumblr and tons of anonymous hate and that sort of thing. But if you find yourself and if you place yourself into the right community, Tumblr can be a really good experience.
KAYLA: Yeah. I honestly thinking back, I think the reason that I fell where I do politically and socially is because I first got introduced to Tumblr when I was in 7th or 8th grade, and previous to that –
SARAH: I was in middle school, yeah.
KAYLA: I didn't even know about anything gay, I didn't know anything about politics. My parents, and I love that they did this, never talked about politics with me and my sister.
SARAH: My parents too.
KAYLA: They didn't even tell us who they were voting for which I personally think was the right thing to do. I have other friends that whatever but –
SARAH: I didn't know who my parents voted for in elections. I found out recently who my parents voted for in 2012.
KAYLA: My parents, they just don't talk about it. So I think the reason I am, aside from now going to the University of Michigan, but I grew up in a very conservative place and this is still how I ended up, and I think a lot of it is because during those years where I was finally becoming politically aware and socially aware, that I was on Tumblr and I was seeing that kind of stuff.
SARAH: I attribute most of it to me being a person of the internet, and specifically me being a person of Tumblr. Because I remember one time, I was probably a freshman in high school and I was talking to my sister and her friend about politics, because they were in gov or something and their opinions at the time, I didn't understand the split between left leaning and right leaning, I just didn't get it yet. Kids these days are so much more informed than I was.
KAYLA: It's so true. I had no idea what was going on.
SARAH: I think we were talking about pro-choice stuff, and I was like I don't know.
KAYLA: I used to be pro-life hardcore.
SARAH: And then I just very specifically remember that moment because they had a different opinion or at least my sister, I don't know who from but I know my sister had a different opinion than I did and I was like, interesting. And I remember not long after that, I saw stuff about it on Tumblr, and it slowly shifted my perception and slowly shifted my standpoint, and I attribute most of me being so hard left-leaning to the internet, the vast majority of it. Also my family just being accepting and not shoving it onto me, just being an accepting place.
KAYLA: I vividly remember, it was even in early high school. I had been on Tumblr but I was still very church-going at that point, and I went to youth group and everything. There was this day that a lot of people were doing where you would wear red duct tape over your mouth, and it was supposed you being like the voiceless infant that was killed during abortion. This guy I liked had done it and then I wanted to do it, but I didn't, but I was very “Yes!”, and then it was finally because of the internet, that I was really looking at the actual points of pro-life and pro-choice that I was like, “Oh”. But either way, especially – I wasn't even in the most conservative place ever, I wasn't in the South or anything.
SARAH: My hometown, I live in a swing county but if anything, it leans a little conservative.
KAYLA: Yeah. So for me, I was never going to learn that stuff, if it wasn't for the internet. I vividly remember a day in catechism where the guy was trying to tell us that being gay was a sin. I remember almost everyone in the class was like, no. We actively debated the teacher so at least there was that, but there was no way I was going to learn about any of that unless there was the internet. And so for people in even more conservative places, no one is going to teach them anything about that.
SARAH: Absolutely, yeah. The internet is so crucial, and that's why I think the internet plays a huge role in why more people are coming out as queer. Not because more people are queer, but people are aware of other queer people, and it's leading to more acceptance.
KAYLA: It's more people even knowing they're queer, knowing what it is about them that makes them different.
SARAH: Yeah. And the internet has played a huge role in giving those groups of people, safe spaces.
KAYLA: You know what I recently read somewhere is that especially, I think it was in Asia – I don't remember which country, I'm the worst. Being gay was still very much so not accepted, because it was seen as a Western idea, something that people in the Western culture planted and it was like, that's not real, that's a fad in the Western world. I was like, oh no.
SARAH: I saw something recently, I don't remember what country it was, it was an African country.
KAYLA: We’re the worst.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: Plus I didn't read the article –
SARAH: Same.
KAYLA: I was just skimming.
SARAH: But basically, some country has made it basically, you can get arrested because of queer content you post online.
KAYLA: Well, Russia does that already.
SARAH: I remember it being an African country.
KAYLA: Okay. Well Russia already does that.
SARAH: Yeah. That's not good. But the internet was a safe space for a lot of groups, especially also within ace communities, because we're spread so thinly that it was because of internet, and really because of AVEN, because of asexuality.org, that this group really actually came together at all.
KAYLA: And I know AVEN does a lot for expanding the group too. If you want to sign up for their newsletter to be educated about how to be someone that talks to the press, they have a newsletter that goes out and they're like, "HuffPost is looking for someone to do an interview. We'll educate you on how to do an interview, and then you'll go do it." So it's even broadening that kind of network. And there's asexual Discords now and there's a ton of specific Tumblr pages. We're not the only podcast. The other podcast I don't think likes to acknowledge that we exist, it's called Aced It!
SARAH: Have we ever acknowledged that they exist?
KAYLA: On Twitter, yeah.
SARAH: On Twitter but not on the actual podcast.
KAYLA: No. I don't listen to it, because I don't listen to a lot of podcasts.
SARAH: I don't have time.
KAYLA: Because I am very specific niche of podcasts I listen to, and they're about criminals. If it's there, I'll listen to it.
SARAH: (laughing) I exclusively listen to Dear Hank & John, Pod Save America and The Good Place: The Podcast.
KAYLA: I listen to a lot of things about crime, it's really just all crime. Anyway.
SARAH: I have such a strange taste, a very broad taste in podcasts and yours is so niche.
KAYLA: It's not niche, it’s very popular –
SARAH: It's popular but it's very specific.
KAYLA: It is very specific.
KAYLA: I listen to other things, those are just the big ones.
(40:00)
SARAH: Those are really the only three podcasts I listen to. Anyway, occasionally other things, if I'm with other people. Like when I was driving to California, I listened to some other podcasts and I enjoyed them. It's just that I wouldn't listen to them consistently.
KAYLA: If I had time, I would listen to every podcast.
SARAH: Oh, same.
KAYLA: But I don't.
SARAH: Also, I can only do it while I'm walking, cleaning or cooking. Those are the only times I can listen to podcasts.
KAYLA: Over the summer a lot of times, I would listen to them while I played video games because I had time.
SARAH: See, that would distract me. I have found I can't even watch slime videos on Instagram while listening to podcasts.
KAYLA: Really?
SARAH: Yeah, the slime videos distract me.
KAYLA: You're the worst.
SARAH: Anyway, yeah. I can literally only walk, clean or cook.
KAYLA: Weren't we talking about making ace slime the other day? I feel like we had this conversation.
SARAH: Yeah. I don't remember what it was.
KAYLA: All right.
SARAH: Anyway, the internet can be a really good place for communities, but also for connecting communities to each other because I think the whole bi community and ace community teaming up a little bit –
KAYLA: That's so cute.
SARAH: Was definitely because of the internet. With that said though, some of the worst aphobia I have seen is online.
KAYLA: All of the aphobia I've seen is online.
SARAH: True.
KAYLA: I've never seen it in person.
SARAH: I almost said true that, what year is it? 2011.
But that is part of the problem with more people knowing about these minority groups and these queer identities, is that not only do people learn about them and become more accepting, there are people that use the internet to hate upon those groups.
KAYLA: That's the hard thing is if you look at the emergence of many other sexualities, it was during the 80s and 90s when the internet was not what it is today. And so ace culture and ace as a sexuality coming to be at this moment in history is different than any other sexuality, in my opinion.
SARAH: Because it was in the late 2000s. Right, yeah.
KAYLA: Right. Even bisexuality I think is just now starting to come up but even then.
SARAH: I think bisexuality is older than ace in terms of the community.
KAYLA: Oh, it definitely is. Or even in my queer history or my queer media class, it's in history, it's in the book, it's there. So ace culture coming to be what it is right now makes it more difficult, or difficult in a different way, than any other sexuality coming to mainstream.
SARAH: Because the internet can reach further and that can be even better, but it can also be even worse because of the reach that the internet has.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. There's definitely pros and cons of having a large community. Large community being you reach more people but also, there's more bad people.
KAYLA: You reach more bad people.
SARAH: There's going to be more infighting. It will feel less like a community, if it's too big. I think I mentioned this before, even Neon Tumblr, the main community I'm in is not just the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. fandom, it's the FitzSimmons fandom. It's a community within a community and I personally don't know of any communities within the ace community at least, that feel like their own thing. There are definitely different pockets of it.
KAYLA: I don't think they're fully formed enough to feel like –
SARAH: Yeah, there's good and bad in all of that. But another thing I just wrote was the cool thing about us joining this community is, we get emails and messages from you guys and that's cool. I'm glad that we get to be a part of this community.
KAYLA: It's very weird to me because I first joined this community from the outside, and I still feel very much on the outside, I have a very weird relationship where I feel like I'm in the community, but I'm very much so on the border. And so a lot of people send us messages saying thank you, and saying that we helped them through questioning, or just that they really like it. We get a lot of emails and sometimes, I think it doesn't hit me as hard as it should, because – I don't know. Do you know what I mean?
SARAH: Yeah, I do. I think also because you tend to answer messages more often than I do, just because you run our social media. And so I usually don't answer things unless Kayla tells me to. So it's weird because I don't have necessarily a direct relationship to individuals in the community, but I still feel like I'm a part of it. And so I feel like if I had more of a direct relationship to more people in the community, I might feel differently about it, but I think it's a testament to the community just being as open as it is that I still really feel like a part of it, even if I don't know individuals in it.
KAYLA: Yeah. Even the fact that people are comfortable enough to message us, and say nice things to us, is a testament to how open the community is that people feel comfortable doing that.
SARAH: Well because the ace community is a community within the larger queer community, and it's a fully formed one which is fun.
KAYLA: Yeah. Honestly, as someone that studies this stuff, I just think it's very interesting, because on the one hand, we're more connected than ever and there is more ways than ever to find people like you. We've had some people that are quite a bit older than us message in and be like, when I was in college, I had no idea what was going on. I'm this age now, and I'm just figuring it out. So I think it's great that people are better able to understand themselves even younger.
SARAH: And we have younger people who message us and are like, I'm still in the process. And I'm like, I am happy to be here for you while you're doing that.
KAYLA: Yeah. We have a lot of people our age and in high school which I think is so cool. But then there's also that dark side of okay but if everyone is going to know, then everyone is going to know.
SARAH: Yeah. It's a wild, wild world out there.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: I like the internet.
KAYLA: Me too. It's a good time.
SARAH: It can be bad sometimes. John Green just made a video about how he's, for an entire year, going off all social media.
KAYLA: Yeah, I saw that.
SARAH: Obviously he's still doing YouTube, because that's his job. Because he in the past has tried to do hiatuses, but he's still gone on his sports Twitter or he's had people post on his behalf, but he said that he's literally not going on any social media for an entire year.
KAYLA: That's wild.
SARAH: And if he wants to read the news, he will read a newspaper.
KAYLA: My God.
SARAH: Or I don't know, go to newyorktimes.com, I don't know.
KAYLA: That's wild.
SARAH: Listen, I can't afford the thing to get more than 10 articles. You know what I was doing last night, watching the election results?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: I had a Google Chrome window open, I had a Google Chrome incognito window open and then I also had a Safari window open, because New York Times only lets you open so many articles per month, but if you open it in a different type of browser, it doesn't know.
KAYLA: I for a class, am supposed to read the Wall Street Journal every day, and to read the day's newspaper, I was supposed to get a subscription but I found a website called Read Across The Aisle, and I don't know what the point of it does because it also shows you how leaning the news sources you go to are. So it's kind of cool.
SARAH: I always think those charts are interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah, so that's interesting. But also, it just lets me continue getting a seven-day trial week after week every week for the Wall Street Journal. So if you want that –
SARAH: That's fun. For the Wall Street Journal or for New York Times?
KAYLA: Wall Street Journal.
SARAH: I don't read the Wall Street Journal.
KAYLA: I do.
SARAH: My grandpa does.
KAYLA: I've been skipping a lot and still doing well on quizzes, so take that – Never mind, it's okay. Professor, please don't listen to my podcast.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: Anyway, where were we going with this?
KAYLA: I'm hungry.
SARAH: Too bad.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: I don't remember where we were.
KAYLA: It's good and it's bad.
SARAH: It's good and it's bad, but I'm grateful for it.
KAYLA: Me too.
SARAH: Oh, taking a break from the internet. I could never.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: But I also think the internet is more, for better or for worse, it's more closely related to who I am as a person, than it necessarily is for John Green, because although he's built up this huge persona on the internet –
KAYLA: But he didn't grow up with it.
SARAH: He also lived for a long time without having social media, and we are in that weird generation that's – I consider myself a millennial, but we really are between the millennials and Gen Z in that we are young enough that all this technology is intuitive to us, but old enough that we didn't have it when we were –
KAYLA: I remember the time before having all this, but we did very much so grow up with it.
SARAH: I remember a time before iPhones.
KAYLA: I remember the computer room.
SARAH: Oh yeah, I had a big, old dinosaur computer. I had a CD player. Oh yeah, I remember my first MP3 player.
KAYLA: Same.
SARAH: It was not an iPod.
KAYLA: No. My first iPod –
SARAH: It was blue and shaped like a triangle, it was weird.
KAYLA: My first iPod was the Touch.
SARAH: Really?
KAYLA: I didn't have an iPod until the Touch came out.
SARAH: I had the iPod Nano back when they were square.
KAYLA: I feel like I still want one, the really classic looking iPods that are chunky and white with the –
SARAH: They don't make them anymore.
KAYLA: I want one.
SARAH: They haven't made them in years.
KAYLA: I bet you a dollar that now that retro things are in, they'll bring them back. No, Apple sucks, they won't, but they should.
SARAH: No they won't.
KAYLA: People will buy them.
SARAH: Well yeah, they will but that was the thing, because my dad wanted to get a new one of those because he had the old kind and he wanted to go old-fashioned and get one of those, and they didn't sell them anymore.
KAYLA: They look so cool, they're all chunky and white, and I'm just a millennial.
(50:00)
SARAH: Yeah. I had one of the square Nanos and then I got the iPod Touch 3 which was pretty chunky and then I got a 4.
KAYLA: Which one was the one with the front camera? The first front camera.
SARAH: The second version of 3. So my first one did not have a front camera.
KAYLA: I don't think my first one had a front camera, but then I got a white one and it had a front camera.
SARAH: I never got the white one. And then I got a Droid phone.
KAYLA: Yeah, my first phone was a Samsung.
SARAH: So then for a while, I had a Droid and an iPod Touch.
KAYLA: I did not have a smartphone until the second half of my junior year of high school.
SARAH: I think I was a freshman.
KAYLA: I first got a phone when I was a freshman. It was a hand-me-down from my aunt, it was a square that slid up, and that was when I first got a phone.
SARAH: So you never had a flip phone?
KAYLA: I never had a flip phone.
SARAH: I had a flip phone.
KAYLA: I wanted a Razr so bad.
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: The Chocolate Razrs? I wanted one.
SARAH: No, Razrs and the Chocolates are different.
KAYLA: Okay, I wanted them.
SARAH: I wanted a Chocolate really badly.
KAYLA: I wanted a Chocolate so bad.
SARAH: I wanted the blue Chocolate. I had a purple flip phone. I got a phone at the very end of fifth grade, because starting in sixth grade, I walked home from school. And so my mom wanted me to have a phone.
KAYLA: I wasn't supposed to get a phone until I was 16 but then I was like, Mom, I'm at practice all the time and I never can contact you. Okay, I really wanted, other than the Chocolate, I also remember telling my mom, by the time I can get a phone, they'll have a Hershey's Kiss phone, and she was like, oh my God, yes. And I was like, what the fuck does that even mean? I wanted the ones that was like flip phone but also, you could slide it and open it so you'd have the full texting keyboard.
SARAH: QWERTY keyboard.
KAYLA: Do you remember those?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It flipped both ways, do you remember those? I wanted one so bad.
SARAH: Yeah. Well because I had the purple flip phone, and then I got the NB3 which was QWERTY keyboard.
KAYLA: Wait, I did have a flip phone. My first phone was a flip phone and then I had to text –
SARAH: I got really good at texting.
KAYLA: I had to text with it, and then I got the one with the whole keyboard or the keyboard flip phone.
SARAH: I got a QWERTY keyboard and then I got a Droid and then I got an iPhone, and now I'm on my third iPhone.
KAYLA: I'm on my second iPhone.
SARAH: You had a Droid when we started college.
KAYLA: Yeah, I had a Samsung and then I remember the Snapchat update came out our freshman year where you could do the face things, but it hadn't come out on Samsung, and I was so mad because everyone was doing the Snapchat things, and I had a fucking Samsung and it wasn't coming out on Samsung for the longest time. I then switched to an iPhone, and then I got the face filters. By the time I switched, they still didn't have the face filters on Snapchat.
SARAH: When we were freshmen too, I remember I got one of the last versions of the iPod Nano they ever made, which was the full touchscreen one. It was just a touchscreen and a button but it was a little Nano.
KAYLA: Was it pink?
SARAH: It was blue. I got that because at the time, my iPhone was only 16GB.
KAYLA: Yeah, you had your music and then you had your – I remember that.
SARAH: I had one for music and one for phone, because I couldn't fit all my music on because it was only 16 or 32GB.
KAYLA: Yeah, I remember that.
SARAH: But now I can fit it all. Wow, tangent. Internet, cool. What's our poll?
KAYLA: Internet. Cool, or not cool?
SARAH: (laughs) That can't be our poll, we need a better poll than that.
KAYLA: I thought that was good. Was my poll good, yes or no?
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: That actually is an interesting question, internet cool or not. Here's the question. Internet? a) net positive, b) – Should we give an option of net neutral, or should we just do net positive and net negative?
KAYLA: We should put net neutral.
SARAH: All right.
KAYLA: Everyone is going to put that though, that is lame.
SARAH: That's why I didn't want to do it. Okay, a) net positive, b) net negative. Do you think the internet, just – For the queer community, let's say, is the internet good for the queer community? Net positive? Yes. Net negative? No.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Interesting. What's your beef of the week?
KAYLA: My beef of the week is that cover letters are hard to write, and I just want someone to hire me and I feel like a future employer is probably listening to this right now, and they're like, this bitch, I don't want her. And I'm sorry, you know they're hard to write when you ask someone to write them. Anyway.
SARAH: My beef of the week is people who are going to cover the election and be like, the Democrats didn't get the result they hoped for, b blue wave what? Because look, I think we did a good job. I'll stop there.
You can find our poll, tell us about your country’s politics, tell us about whether you want to hear more about queer political issues, on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. We also have a Tumblr – Community, am I right ladies? soundsfakepod.tumblr.com or you can email us at soundsfakepod@gmail.com.
We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you want to give us our money. Our money? Your money. It’ll be ours, once you give it to us.
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: Make your money our money.
SARAH: (laughs) What an incredible tagline. I’m glad you said that because I realize I didn’t pull up the patrons, so I’ve been doing that.
Our $2 patrons are Sara Jones and Keith McBlaine, our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney and Perry Fiero. Pierry Fiero.
And our $10 patron is Emma Fink, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Emma T Fink.
Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: Until then, take good care of your cows.