Ep 313: Sexuality is Fluid!
[00:00:00]
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah, that's me)
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl (that's me Kayla)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode: Sexuality is Fluid
BOTH: Sounds Fake, But Okay
SARAH: I remembered it was anything because it starts with an A.
KAYLA: Oh, she's smart.
SARAH: Welcome back to the poooooooooooood
KAYLA: Oh, wow. Okay, some vocal artistry
SARAH: Power of microphones
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: Welcome back.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: How is everyone?
KAYLA: Sleepy
SARAH: Warm
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: It's warm.
KAYLA: It was actually fall weather here today. It was Magical
SARAH: Shut the fuck up
KAYLA: Dean coined a new term, you're going to hate it, called seasonal edging and it's when… It's when it's…
SARAH: I know what it is
KAYLA: Okay, well some people might not, it's when at the end of the summer some days it feels like fall and then it goes back to being super hot and so today it was proclaimed that today was a seasonal climax because it really felt like fall
SARAH: It’s early in the season
KAYLA: It's going to get hot again this…
SARAH: What happened to climate change?
KAYLA: I mean, I think I would say we're still in seasonal edging territory because this weekend is going to get hot again
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But today it felt like fall but this weekend it will be hot again, anyway
SARAH: We're encroaching on my beef and my juice here, but we're in the season here in Los Angles where it's well into the 90s every day
KAYLA: Yay
SARAH: And it will continue to be like that for like another month at least. For those non-US Americans at home 95 degrees Fahrenheit is like 35 Celsius.
KAYLA: It's hot
SARAH: This is why I don't leave my house.
KAYLA: We had a very 90-degree summer here in Boston, it has been excruciating
SARAH: Mm-hmm. It has probably been excruciating here, but I just don't ever go outside
KAYLA: I don't either, it's just that I don't have central air
SARAH: I can't relate. Okay, um, we have housekeeping this week
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Which is, um, first of all, if you have sent us mail recently to our PO boxes, thank you
KAYLA: Thank you
SARAH: It's very kind and we have received it and I… it's… I have… it's in my hand right now. But I checked my PO box the other day and I discovered that there was something that had been returned to sender because it was too large to fit in my physical PO box and I went too long without checking my PO box. So, if that was yours, I'm very sorry.
KAYLA: Uh-oh
SARAH: If you would like to send it again…
KAYLA: I have not had any mail return to sender, so, don’t worry about me
SARAH: If you would like to send it again, and also this is just like a blanket statement for all the kids at home, if you're going to send mail to our PO boxes especially if it is larger than like a regular size letter, you may want to like email us and let us know that it's coming because some of us, me, we live near where our PO box is, but we don't work near where our PO box is and our PO box lobbies opening hours are within the opening hours of my job, the working hours of my job, so the only day I can really go pick it up is on Saturdays and I don't always want to do that because I have to walk there and as aforementioned, it's hot
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: So, anyway, if your mail got returned to sender, I'm very sorry. I'm a loser
KAYLA: Womp, womp, womp.
SARAH: I hope it wasn't expensive to send
KAYLA: That would be bad
SARAH: That would be bad and I would cry and I would feel immense guilt for the rest of my life because of who I am as a person. Do we have any other housekeeping?
KAYLA: Oh, the episode of Virgin Radio UK pride, Virgin Radio… some amalgamation of those words.
SARAH: Yeah, Virgin Pride
KAYLA: Virgin Pride. The podcast version of that which is the same as the radio, it's just that you can listen to it whenever you want now, is now…
SARAH: On demand
KAYLA: On demand, is now on your favorite podcatcher, I have updated the link in last week's episode, but I will put it here too, I didn't listen to it because I don't like listening to myself but I did read the transcript and I thought we were great and there are some other great aspecs that you probably know also in it.
SARAH: Hell, yeah. Kayla is all like, I don't like listening to my voice, I have to listen to our voices all the fucking time.
KAYLA: Yeah, well
SARAH: Hours.
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: Hours of it.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: At least these people listening have a choice
KAYLA: Unless
SARAH: Unless. All right, Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week we are talking about how sexuality is fluid, and now, I don't really remember why I thought of this, but first of all, I was like, there's no way we haven't talked about this before and I'm very positive we've talked about it throughout episodes, but I could not find a dedicated episode about it.
SARAH: Dedicated like the Carly Rae Jepsen album.
KAYLA: Exactly
SARAH: It's very good, by the way
KAYLA: It is, she's great. But I told Sarah about this potential topic and she was like, but what would we say about it, like sexuality is fluid, the end, it’s like, it's true
SARAH: What’s our poll for this week?
KAYLA: What’s our poll for this week? Which… I told her then some ideas about how we could go deeper, but I do think that it's worth noting that for us that is very obvious
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Especially at this point and where we are in our journey with the queer community and with this podcast. But thinking back to the beginning of this podcast, I could definitely see at least myself being confused by that and like needing more explanation
SARAH: Yeah, that's fair. And of course, we can't assume that everyone listening is at the same point that we are because we exist in our own consciousness and they exist in their own
KAYLA: We did not just fall out of the coconut tree.
SARAH: No. Ow
KAYLA: So, you did just fall out the coconut tree?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Is what you’re saying, but you can't because you exist in the context of everything that came before
SARAH: I think I exist in the context of falling out of the coconut tree.
KAYLA: Do you think you're on your first life?
SARAH: Um, I think Jungkook is on his… no, Jungkook is on a second life because in his first life he…
KAYLA: Not the question. Not the question at all. Sometimes I'm asking you a question about you and not a K-pop person, I know that's crazy
SARAH: Do I think it's my first life? If there are multiple lives I think probably not but I also don't think I'm like super ancient.
KAYLA: Sure. I think I'm on my first one
SARAH: I might be middling.
KAYLA: I think I'm on the first one.
SARAH: Okay. Why do you think that?
KAYLA: Because I… there is people in my life who have very strong feelings about their past lives or like have some sense of them, which…
SARAH: I don't have strong feelings about anything, does that mean it's my first life?
KAYLA: Honestly, could be. Um, and so I just feel like if I had one, I would know more about it. You know what I mean?
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: This is not…
SARAH: This is nothing to do.
KAYLA: This is nothing. Um…
SARAH: I was probably a farmer.
KAYLA: I cannot see that for you
SARAH: Like the olden days
KAYLA: I just like don't think you give farmer energy.
SARAH: Wow
KAYLA: I think you were a sickly Victorian boy, and I think that strongly influenced your current life
SARAH: Kayla thinks that I can't throw bales of hay
KAYLA: Grow bales of hay? You don't grow a bale of hay.
SARAH: Throw, throw bales of hay.
KAYLA: Oh, yeah, I definitely don't think so.
SARAH: I mean the hay has to come from somewhere, it doesn't grow in a bale.
KAYLA: Yeah. But you don't grow it as a bale.
SARAH: Anyway
KAYLA: Like saying you grew a bouquet of flowers, it doesn't come like that.
SARAH: Sexuality is fluid.
KAYLA: It didn't just fall out of the coconut tree, Sarah.
SARAH: Sexuality exists in the context.
KAYLA: That now, sexuality did not just fall out of the coconut tree.
SARAH: No, not at all.
KAYLA: Not at all.
SARAH: And that's part of the reason why people don't understand the fluidity is because they feel as though it fell out of the coconut tree.
KAYLA: It fell, when it did not.
SARAH: And it just plopped in front of everyone and said, “here I am, I am the concept of sexuality,” but really the concept of sexuality exists in the context of everything around it and all that came before it. If you don't know what we’re talking about
KAYLA: This is not going to be good for you
SARAH: Um, maybe… actually, I was going to say, live in your ignorance, but you know what? It's fun.
KAYLA: It's fun. Just look up, ‘do you think you just fell out of the coconut tree?’ Just google that and you’ll…
SARAH: Do you think you just fell out of a coconut tree? Look up the remixes. I like the coconut mall remix.
KAYLA: I like that one. I like all the brat ones.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Okay. We have to begin now, but I do think that is a good point though, it's the fact that sexuality is a social construct, right? Like it is something that humans created in a sense.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Right?
SARAH: Everything is invented
KAYLA: Exactly, like it's not… you know, it's not a coconut tree
[00:10:00]
SARAH: But sexuality is not invented in the way that the light bulb was invented in that we can like pinpoint like oh this person invented the light bulb.
KAYLA: Yes. Sexuality was invented in the way that gender was.
SARAH: I was going to say agriculture, but sure
KAYLA: Oh, interesting. But no because also sexuality has changed so much over the years like if you think about back in the day what it meant to be a gay man when you started with the, who was it? Like Oliver Wilde? No, that's not his name
SARAH: Oscar
KAYLA: Oscar Wilde. You know, like the beginning of history of people identifying as gay rather than just back in the Roman times where everyone was fucking and no one was labeling it, right?
SARAH: Or the conflation of gender and sexuality and like thinking that if you were attracted to men then that meant something about your gender as well.
KAYLA: Yeah, true. So anyway, I do think that's an interesting place to start with like not only is each person's sexuality fluid, but the concept of sexuality has changed drastically over history and I assume will only continue to change
SARAH: The concept in and of itself is fluid which is representative of how the concept of the concept is fluid
KAYLA: Thank you. Yes, we're being really… here's something interesting is that Sarah and I were both like we're not feeling very brainalicious today and yet we still decided to do like a more serious topic and I think that was very ambitious of us
SARAH: Yeah. Earlier today Kayla was like, I brain no, and I was like, well, the past two days I've been like doing this one thing like all day long
KAYLA: Yeah. And it's funny because the past two days I've been doing everything all day long, all the things, every different thing
SARAH: And so, Kayla said what can we do that's no brain cells. And then she was like, let's talk about the fluidity of sexuality.
KAYLA: Well, you weren't putting forth any ideas, so
SARAH: No, because I was actively working. I was looking for photos of Waffle House.
KAYLA: I know you were at your big job. Okay, anyway. Sexuality is fluid, if you don't understand what we mean by that at the outset. I think the very… yes?
SARAH: Anyway, sorry, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
KAYLA: So, sexuality is fluid, the basics of what we mean by that is that your sexuality does not have to be completely fixed for your entire life
SARAH: It's not a solid or a gas
KAYLA: Oh, a solid or a gas. Okay
SARAH: Or magma
KAYLA: Or magma. Or liquid
SARAH: Or…
KAYLA: It is like…
SARAH: It is like…
KAYLA: It’s the point you were making, I understand the joke you were making now
SARAH: Big brain
KAYLA: Okay, no, focus. Okay, your sexuality does not have to be the same throughout your entire life
SARAH: Cooked
KAYLA: You do not have to be like, well, I'm gay, and then that's it
SARAH: I think an easy way to kind of understand this is a lot of times people who are homophobic or just uninformed when they find out that someone has come out as gay, they're like, oh, so you're gay now? Like you… like you became gay?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And they think of it as something you become which is misinformed and oftentimes comes from a place not… it can come from a place of like malice of being like, well, you can't change who you are, what do you mean you just turned gay? But I think thinking about it in the sense of like that that premise where they're saying like, oh you turned gay, first of all exists on the assumption that you're straight to begin with which is…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But it kind of accepts the premise that your sexuality can change
KAYLA: Mm-hmm, interesting
SARAH: And so, I think for some straight people that might actually be a helpful point of reference not for all of them, but for some of them it might be
KAYLA: For if you're more understanding and can understand nuance
SARAH: Right, yeah, you have to understand nuance. Otherwise
KAYLA: Otherwise, it's… it's all gone. Um, but like me for example, I don't… so, I currently identify as demisexual and biromantic if you have listened for a long time, you will know that originally, I just identified as straight then I was demisexual and straight and then I was demisexual and bi romantic.
SARAH: What's next?
KAYLA: What's… and who's to say what's next? Uh, I don't… I wouldn't be surprised if I've always been demi I suppose like looking back on my early life dating experiences, you know, like post-puberty-type things. I think things match. I don't know that I buy that I've always been demi or…
SARAH: You don’t know that you bi?
KAYLA: I don't know that I bi hahaha - that I've always been biromantic. I don't have many memories like I feel like a lot of other queer people do where they're like, oh yeah, I remember being five years old and I saw this cartoon character and I was obsessed with her and I should have known I was gay.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I don't really have that to be honest
SARAH: Even in like a repressed way? Like a, oh, I have just thought but then I repressed it?
KAYLA: I don't think so
SARAH: Or they just like didn't exist?
KAYLA: No, I don't remember being attracted to women at all in my early life, for me I truly believe it was learning more about queerness, learning more about gender, just kind of growing up and learning about myself and realizing what actually mattered to me when it came to attraction and what I was attracted to. I also think I've just changed a lot as a person from who I was when I was younger, like I grew up in a very conservative town, there just wasn't a lot of, I don't know, ideas going on and so I think I've just changed a lot
SARAH: … those motherfuckers…
KAYLA: And there wasn't. So, for me, I very much so feel like my sexuality was fluid that at a certain point maybe I wasn't biromantic and then I slowly I was and I think that can be the case for a lot of different types of sexualities and romantic identities.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And I think on the other end of that spectrum you have me where I'm like, as soon as I was like, yeah, I'm aro-ace, I was like, yeah, that's right, it drives throughout my whole life. And I think for me even now I still sometimes have a little bit of trouble being like how can… not just the way you identify but like your actual identity, the way you experience it, like part of me is like, how can that change? Because for me it has not
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: At all, and… it hasn't. And so, there's still a part of me that like can't quite wrap my head around that but also who gives a fuck?
KAYLA: Fair. Yeah
SARAH: Like if there's anything that this community teaches you, who gives a flying fuck? Not I.
KAYLA: It's… yeah, it's not that deep. Well, because I truly think so much changes about a person throughout their life and you come up against so many different experiences that to me it just seems very natural that your preferences and your attractions could change, not that they have to.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: But it makes sense to me that you know someone like me I started meeting a lot of different types of people and I realized, oh, there's other types of people that I could be attracted to and these are not types of people that I had been exposed to before. So, how would I know that I was attracted to them? You know what I mean?
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: You also then can get into things like more traumatic life events changing your attractions. We've heard from many different people in the community who did not previously identify as aspec and then went through some sort of major trauma in their lives and now do and that is a completely valid reason to have a fluid change-up in your sexuality, like to me there is absolutely nothing wrong with something “causing” your sexuality. I very much so don't subscribe to like the full born-this-way rhetoric which I think can maybe be a bit controversial because of what you were talking about earlier with how many homophobic people will be like, well, you turned gay and so the natural retort to that is like, no, I've always been gay, I was born like this and I can't change it
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Which like yes, but also no if you have more nuance, you know what I mean?
SARAH: Right, we seek nuance in this house
KAYLA: Indeed. But yeah, I like I obviously believe that people can't… you know, you're born with some sort of sexuality I guess… I mean you have to start somewhere I suppose but like…
SARAH: You're born
KAYLA: You’re born something for sure
SARAH: You're born with… Are you born with a sexuality?
KAYLA: No, I don’t think so
SARAH: Or does a sexuality develop after hit puberty?
KAYLA: I assume it develops at some point I don't see how a baby's brain could… If you don't… if a baby cannot even understand the sense of self, there's no way it has a sexuality
SARAH: A baby is just gugu gaga
KAYLA: Exactly, I don't know when it starts forming, probably before puberty, but
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Who is to fucking say? Um, so like it's not that I don't believe that people are “born this way,” I just don't think it always has to be like that
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And I think that that puts too much rigidity on it and kind of takes away from the fluidity of things
SARAH: Mm-hmm. It's kind of like when people have like… they like almost die, they have like a really… like a life-changing event happen to them and then they become religious afterwards
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: It's kind of like that because… But kind of not also.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: So, never mind
KAYLA: I mean, I guess it's sort of like that in a way of major life events can fundamentally change your belief system
[00:20:00]
SARAH: But it doesn't change who you were before that.
KAYLA: Well, I don't think your sexuality changing changes who you are either
SARAH: That… okay, but that's why I said never mind
KAYLA: No, but I'm like agreeing with you
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Because I think… okay. It depends on… okay. It depends on the analogy, are you just…
SARAH: Religion is a choice
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true. Well, yeah
SARAH: Whether you believe in a higher power, maybe not a choice, but…
KAYLA: Organized religion is a choice
SARAH: Organized religion is a choice
KAYLA: Your belief system I actually don't know that that is a choice, I don't choose what I believe, it comes to me, in my brain
SARAH: In my brain, unbidden
KAYLA: In my brain based on everything that came before the coconut tree
SARAH: It is this in the context
KAYLA: It is in the context. Do you have any thoughts on… on the, ‘born-this-way’ agenda?
SARAH: Yeah, I think there's more nuance to it, but it's hard to nuance anything and I understand why people rely on the born-this-way rhetoric to slap homophobes upside the face because if they're being homophobic and shit you can't expect them to be like, well, nuance, here's…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Let me explain this. So, like I understand why it's… why it's used and why it's referred to that way but I do… I do I guess wish that more people within the community, I guess were more open to the fluidity of it all even if you don't totally understand it, they don't totally understand what it would feel like to have that experience, like, who cares?
KAYLA: Yeah, because I think what the ‘born-this-way’ argument is really getting at is the fact that you do not have a choice in the matter like I did not choose to be this sexuality.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: It can change but it isn't my choice if it changes
SARAH: Yeah, exactly
KAYLA: It's my choice if I act upon those changes, I suppose which you could then see is like, oh you chose to be gay because you chose to have gay sex or whatever
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But like you didn't choose to be attracted in that way. So, I… you know, the crux of the argument makes sense, it's just that nuance
SARAH: And a person who maybe thinks gay is bad for religious reasons, I'm thinking of people who like acknowledge that they have homosexual urges, but they don't act on them because God tells them to whatever
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That doesn't take away the attraction that they do feel
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: It may impact the label they use for themselves
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: But the label you use and the attractions you do or don't feel go in two different buckets
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And the buckets might be like chained to each other like…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But they are two different buckets
KAYLA: Yeah, I think you choose to identify as something, you choose to acknowledge your attractions and then tie that to an identity. Oh my god
SARAH: An identity
KAYLA: Tie that to an identity, but you do need those attractions first to then have that identity
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Then you don't choose the attractions
SARAH: It's in the same way that two people might experience attraction to multiple genders in the exact same way and one of them might call themselves pan and one of them might call themselves bi
KAYLA: Right, exactly.
SARAH: That's just the way of the woyrld
KAYLA: Indeed
SARAH: The woyrld of your eurster
KAYLA: Indeed. It's the… I… This… you… oh my God, I think I'm short-circuiting.
SARAH: You're really brave
KAYLA: Earlier when you were talking about how you just wishind… Oh my God, wishind? I think I'm dying. I'm thinking I’m having a stroke
SARAH: I thought you said wishin’t like wish is not
KAYLA: I wishin’t, I'm going to start using that, I wishin’t you wouldn't do that. When you said that you wished people in the queer community were more open to the nuance of sexuality being fluid, it made me think a lot about the… what's the word? Discourse? of bi women ‘turning’ into lesbians or people just being like stopover bisexuals or like they were never bisexual to begin with or whatever and just that's just not helpful dialogue at all
SARAH: Yeah. Sometimes I think about like specifically with the instance of Reneé Rapp because she very publicly identified as bi, had a whole bit on Seth Meyers’s show about it
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like… and then ultimately came out as lesbian and… First of all, let's go lesbians
KAYLA: Of course
SARAH: Love that for her. But there is a part of me that worries that there are going to be people out there who are uninformed who will just be like, this is evidence
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: That it's just a stepping stone to lesbianism or whatever when it's obviously a lot more nuanced than that but
KAYLA: Nuance
SARAH: But also, that's not a reason for her not to be public about her lesbian identity
KAYLA: I know the thing is is that like…
SARAH: She's not responsible for other people's lack of ability to understand her
KAYLA: Yeah, first of all, that's her life. She could do whatever, like leave her alone. The thing is like even if you are like a stopover bisexual or whatever, I don't give a fuck, like if that's what the identity you want to have or you like truly think you are bisexual and then eventually, you realize like oh that was just like heteronormativity in my ass or like whatever… And then you realize not like I don't give a fuck. Okay, like that doesn't make bisexuality any less valid
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Or the people that genuinely are bisexual and then genuinely are lesbian, like I don't… okay. I don't care.
SARAH: We know it's real because there are… there are people that experience that attraction consistently throughout their entire life, there are people…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Who maybe don't start out that way but they end that way like it's like it...
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Of course, it’s fucking real
KAYLA: Yeah, there have been bisexual people for years, for so long
SARAH: For maybe even decades
KAYLA: Maybe… Maybe… fucking no. Yeah, I just wish people would leave people alone.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And have some nuance.
SARAH: How often do you think people sexuality fluid themselves into straightness?
KAYLA: Not often.
SARAH: I also think not often but I mean, I'm sure it's hard to have happened
KAYLA: I think the only times that happens… Not the only, I think the most prevalent instance is when you would transition and you become straight, that is the only time you become anything
SARAH: This was… I was… I was just thinking about this as a follow-up question, does… I mean I think that all of the same stuff applies to gender.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: But if you transition that is a more permanent like physical change and there… obviously, the number of people who do transition or regret their transition for gender reasons and not for like financial reasons or whatever reasons is very small.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But you know, there are people who kind of become famous
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Among the right for de-transitioning and then there are people who are like, yeah, I de-transitioned but I don't… like I don't have anything against trans people or the trans community like it just… Things changed for me.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And now here I am and those people, nice, keep going, you're great
KAYLA: Yes, excellent
SARAH: But then you have these people who kind of like make it a… make it a thing that they de-transitioned and I… like I wonder how they think about the fluidity of their gender because I… I'm sure there are some of them who genuinely believe they were bamboozled by the left, like…
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: Sure, but they can't all believe that
KAYLA: And no, I can't imagine, I mean, that's just such a huge decision to make
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: That I find it very hard to believe that you would go as far as a full medical transition
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And then claim that you were bamboozled
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean then… because then you're getting into the difference between gender and sex, right?
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Like you… I think… to me I think gender implicitly is more fluid than sex, right? Because sex is a…
SARAH: Biological
KAYLA: Biological thing and gender is your brain, correct?
SARAH: That is correct.
KAYLA: I’m I thinking of this right?
SARAH: Yep, you are
KAYLA: So, I mean that's what makes it hard for me is to like to change your sex medically.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Does not happen in one day
SARAH: No
KAYLA: You could change your gender in one day. You could change your gender many times a day, I know people who are gender fluid and they be changing up bam, bam, bam, but you can't just put a penis on
SARAH: That's what the straps are for
KAYLA: Just kidding, you can just put a penis on, I'm so sorry lesbians, you can put a penis on
SARAH: But you can't put on a penis that is connected biologically to your body
KAYLA: Right, and not that penis equals sex either. Wait, penis does equal sex, penis doesn't equal gender
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Correct
KAYLA: I’m confusing myself. I’m getting myself all turned around and I don't even know if there's a point to anything I'm saying
SARAH: I think what we've proven here is that it is complicated even for those of us who are 315 episodes into a podcast about the fluidity of this world
KAYLA: Yes, indeed
SARAH: So maybe if people are a little bit confused about the nuance give them some grace unless they don't deserve it in which case whack them upside the head
KAYLA: If they're… here's the thing, if they're confused about the nuance, but they're trying, that's great
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: If they're not trying kick them in the face
SARAH: So true
KAYLA: So true. At the end of the day gender also fluid is…
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: I think what we've come to and sex is a whole other thing that I don't think I quite understand
SARAH: Yeah, I don't think we're qualified to talk about that
KAYLA: No, I don't think so at all
SARAH: We're acknowledging our limits
KAYLA: Indeed.
SARAH: It's a podcast
KAYLA: I don't think we can get into this at all, just given the brain state I'm in and my lack of knowledge, but I have heard discourse about non-binary lesbians.
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: And can you be a lesbian if you're non-binary?
SARAH: I know at least one, I know possibly several
KAYLA: Yes, but then there's this whole discourse of like well lesbian is only for women loving women and you're not a woman, you are non-binary.
SARAH: That's for surface
KAYLA: I'm just telling you what the internet
SARAH: I know, I know, I know what you’re telling me
KAYLA: But I think that also just… that could get into a whole other discussion of okay when gender and sexuality are both fluid and they are moving and changing together and you want to stick with one but move with the other.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: What will happen now? You know?
SARAH: You decide, you decide
KAYLA: Complicated, anyone is… that's the thing. It's literally your decision, but the other people are going to be fucking bitches about it.
SARAH: Right. And I think with that particular scenario, it's also… I forgot I was thinking about how you can't be non-binary and straight because you can't be attracted to the opposite gender…
KAYLA: Because there is no opposite gender
SARAH: Because there is no opposite gender, I really got distracted by myself
KAYLA: So interesting, that's so interesting. See and this is the way that gender and sexuality intertwine, that makes it so confusing
SARAH: What was I saying before?
KAYLA: I don't know brother, I think we have to stop before we offend someone because I'm like, I don't know what I've said.
SARAH: It was about lesbians who…
KAYLA: Let's go, let’s…
SARAH: Are non-binary and also identify as lesbians, oh, it's… so much of it is also just the way that you identify in terms of how you were raised and your upbringing and I think specifically in the experience of and the instance of people who were socialized as women there is a very specific experience in the way that you are treated by the outside world that impacts how you view yourself and how you yeah view your place in the world and I think that has a very particular impact on the way we identify and our relationships with our identities because maybe it's just because I don't interface with men but I often don't… I don't often hear about people who are like I am non-binary but I am a gay man. You do sometimes hear it, but I feel like the non-binary and lesbian is something that you just hear more often and I wonder if it's because aphob people are kind of forced to identify with not their femininity but with their female gender in a certain way because the outside world enforces it upon them and so, whether they choose to buck that or lean into certain aspects of it, it just becomes a much more ingrained part of your being whether you like it or not
KAYLA: I do think it's harder too. I do think femininity in a lot of ways especially in the relationship realm is more strict than masculinity and so when you are talking about your sexuality and your gender in terms of the type of people you date and then your sexuality I think you're right that it is harder to shed that
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Speaking from no experience.
SARAH: I think femininity is more expansive
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And I… because I don't know that I totally agree that femininity is more strict
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Because I think masculinity in a lot of ways is very strict because it's like…
KAYLA: That’s fair
SARAH: If you paint your nails…
KAYLA: That's fair.
SARAH: You're a sissy, you know that sort of thing?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Whereas femininity there's more leeway, but I feel like with femininity, it's… It being more expansive in some ways is good because you can kind of like reach out in either direction and still be within this societally accepted version of femininity while still exploring different aspects but it's also… That also makes it harder to claw out of if you want to escape it entirely
KAYLA: Yeah, I see that
SARAH: Because it just takes up more space
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: If that is a metaphor that makes sense to anyone
KAYLA: It makes sense to me, but also like I feel like we're rubbing two brain cells together right now
SARAH: Who knows what's rattling around in there? Kayla, what's our poll for this week? Do you even have to say no, what's our poll?
KAYLA: No. Do you… My poll is do you have nuance?
SARAH: Do you exist in the context?
KAYLA: Do you… did you just fall out of the coconut tree?
SARAH: I also like how the way that that has been shortened is… to, ‘do you exist in the context?’ in the context of what? there is no context in the way that we have shortened that phrase.
KAYLA: I disagree
SARAH: How so?
KAYLA: Okay, the phrase, ‘do you exist in the context?’
SARAH: Of what?
KAYLA: I think that… okay, I think the context is everything, the context is like the whole sphere of like human, the human experience, you know?
SARAH: But I feel like context is a word that by its very nature… I can't… I don't… I can't think of the right grammatical term for what this is, but like it impacts another word, it impacts another term, it like…
KAYLA: I also think that we all know what the context is referring to because we all know this is a shortened quote
SARAH: I know I'm just saying it’s silly
KAYLA: I was also just saying and you didn't like my idea
SARAH: I'm just saying it’s silly
KAYLA: And now we're fighting. And now we're fighting
SARAH: And now we're going to throw hands
KAYLA: Now we’re going to have to fight
SARAH: My wrist is extra fucked up I can't fight you right now.
KAYLA: I don't want to fight right now, I'm sleepy
SARAH: So, okay you exist in the context, yes, or no? Maybe.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm. Maybe
SARAH: Uh, Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My… I had one. Hold on.
SARAH: Do you want me to go first or do you want to think?
KAYLA: I'm thinking
SARAH: I just don't like silence
KAYLA: I was… I had it just before, just before I had it. My juice is fried pickles, this is not new, I always love fried pickles, it's just that I saw a fan cam of fried pickles today, it really got me
SARAH: I love that for you
KAYLA: Thank you. My beef is I'm running out of all of my skincare and I need to buy more but because I have to buy it all at once it means I'm going to be poor
SARAH: That'll do it.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: My beef… my juice, I almost started with my juice because I kind of already touched on it, my juice is air-conditioning
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: That's all. My beef is that every picture online is AI
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I was earlier today and also yesterday because it's all I've been doing for the past few days, looking up photos and putting together a pitch deck for a project that we are pitching and so it was pictures and we… my boss likes to have a lot of pictures and the pictures changing all the time so many pictures and I… So, I… based off of the script of the pitch I often have to look up very specific things to kind of like match with what's going on. So recently I was doing one where I needed a mermaid
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: And that was a little hard because um, I needed a mermaid who was like a little bit older and…
KAYLA: A mature maid
SARAH: A mature maid, literally, and I was having trouble finding a right image of that and I…
KAYLA: Sarah will not have a mom?
SARAH: That's the whole thing
KAYLA: Yeah, you're right. Carry on. What about Ariel when she was a mom? She still looked young, keep going
SARAH: It needed to be a person not a cartoon
KAYLA: I’m just saying, beggars can't be choosers, but okay
SARAH: And I was like, okay, I understand in this situation that there might be more AI which is because like there aren't that many photos of realistic-looking mermaids, I get it. Earlier today I decided that what would best exemplify this moment where I needed to change to a new photo was a cup of coffee, like a steaming cup of coffee sitting on like a… like a kitchen table like a homie. I look up steaming cup of coffee, steaming cup of coffee table, steaming cup of coffee kitchen table, steaming cup of coffee at home, the various things that one might… might Google. I know for a fact there are stock photos of steaming cups of coffee on the internet. It's a basic thing. Of course, they fucking exist. So why were 65% of the results AI generated?
KAYLA: Did you try going to a stock photo website?
[00:40:00]
SARAH: Here's the thing, because we don't ever pay for these photos because they don't actually like go to the general public so I try and avoid getting them directly off of stock photo websites because they have their watermarks all over them
KAYLA: But there are some stock photo websites that are free.
SARAH: Yeah, but I mostly use Google to get to what I want
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: And… Well, here's the thing, with stock photo websites, it seems that they have… at least the ones that I was on today, you can do like in the advanced settings, you can be like, ‘no AI,’ which then gets rid of 95% of all the options. Um, but Google Images you… I can't, that I'm aware of you can't do that.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And so, like I'm sorry for wanting to use the most robust search-engine to get the most robust results because I don't want to use DuckDuckGo like I… No shade to DuckDuckGo, I'm… I mean if you're a DuckDuckGo stan and you really think I should use it for all of my searching needs do let me know. Yeah, I'm just… why is everything I… it's a steaming cup of coffee, it doesn't need to be AI, we have so many of that, anyway, that’s all. You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your steaming cup of coffee on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you want to support us there. We have a new $5 patreon, it's Cassandra M
KAYLA: Yaaaaaaay
SARAH: I was going to say Cassandra like… okay, you know how in ‘Doctor Who’ there's that character from like season… like this… from like the ninth doctor or the tenth doctor?
KAYLA: No
SARAH: Where… you might… I think you might know what I'm talking about, where it's just like a… she's just like skin stretched out.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: I believe her name is Cassandra.
KAYLA: I think you're right. Moisturize me
SARAH: Yeah, exactly, moisturize me. And so, I was going to be like… Oh, Cassandra, but then I was like, I don't know that you would want to be compared to that Cassandra, I mean she’s…
KAYLA: … now?
SARAH: I'm pretty sure that she's like chill, right? Or is she like a villain?
KAYLA: I don't remember
SARAH: I don’t remember
KAYLA: I can't recall
SARAH: Anyway, thank you Cassandra for giving us your $5 a month. Our other $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Doug Rice, Edward Hayes-Holgate, Emily Jean, ffinasfs and Galvin Ford. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this very week are Elle Bitter who would like to promote normalizing the use of tone indicators /srs, my aunt Jeannie who would like to promote Christopher’s Haven, Kayla's dad who would like to promote JandiCreations.com, Maff who would like to promote the Don't Should Sweatshirt, and Martin Chiesl who would like to promote his podcast Everyone’s Special and No One Is. I was recently in a zoom call where my boss was bragging about how I've written a book and it… So then I had to explain that I have a podcast and I was wearing my Don't Should shirt
KAYLA: Oh, embarrassing
SARAH: And I said, I am wearing my own merch right now
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Anyway. Our other $10 patrons are Parker, Purple Hayes, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Val, Alastor, Alyson, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Bones, Celina Dobson, Clare Olsen, David Harris and Derick & Carissa. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person. Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com and Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Fluidity, yeah. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly, Dr. Jacki and my mom who would like to run. Dr Jacki. And also, a couple of weeks ago one of the people on the production of the show that I work with, they sent out like a blast email to everyone which they do regularly and they had to do… they had to issue a correction but when they issued the correction the email said, all caps, CORKSHIN
KAYLA: Oh, oh
SARAH: And I screenshotted it
KAYLA: That’s so good
SARAH: And so, sometimes I just see it in my screenshots and I giggle and I think it's very funny, but I don't know this person well enough to be like, remember when you did this? It was really funny. I'm also not sure they realized they made the typo
KAYLA: It's best if they don't know, I had an issue, a correction today on an email I sent and I don't want to think about it.
SARAH: So, the $20 patrons would like to promote CORKSHIN
KAYLA: CORKSHIN, good.
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears
KAYLA: And until then take good care of your cows
SARAH: CORKSHIN
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]