Ep 139: Sexual Acts Do Not Equal Sexuality
[00:00:00]
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah that's me
KAYLA: And a demi-straight girl, that's me Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode, sexual activity
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay
[Intro Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod
KAYLA: R’emarkable
SARAH: That's true. Hey guys exciting news.
KAYLA: You know what is r’emarkable
SARAH: It is remarkable, this week's pod episode is brought to you by A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor by Hank Green
KAYLA: The novel
SARAH: Yes, so here's the tea, Hank's first book An Absolutely Remarkable Thing or r’emarkable if you will
KAYLA: I will
SARAH: Came out in 2018, it slaps. I read it. It's about a young woman whose name is April May, which is a fun name
KAYLA: Yeah, it’s funny
SARAH: She is thrown into some fame, she grows into her fame and then the world suddenly has to deal with these massive changes in the form of contagious dreams and mysterious 10-foot-tall robots that have appeared in every major city. They're named Carl's. It's a wild book. I utterly enjoyed it. And A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor is the sequel and the conclusion to the first book, it comes out on July 7th, which is very soon if you are listening to this when it comes out, I am very excited for it. I pre-ordered it long before we got Hank Green to sponsor this podcast
KAYLA: Truly, I mean if you listen to this podcast, you know how much Sarah specifically talks about Dear Hank and John and…
SARAH: It’s true
KAYLA: The Green brothers. So, I mean Hank, if you're listening, I got to tell you a secret, we would have done this for free
SARAH: We sure would have
KAYLA: And we probably would have ended up doing it, but thank you
SARAH: Thank you
KAYLA: For your money
SARAH: But A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor is out July 7th in a hardcover, e-book, audiobook, available wherever books are booking, might I recommend your local indie bookstore, just saying and Hank wanted his publisher to sponsor a ton of small podcasts, but they said it was too weird so, instead he just took 5% of his advance from the book and he did it himself
KAYLA: Which is very cool. Uh, hey Sarah
SARAH: Hey what?
KAYLA: Do you know what Library Journal's Starred Review said about A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor, the sequel to an Absolutely Remarkable Thing?
SARAH: I sure do. So, they said, “throughout this adventurous, witty, and compelling novel, Green delivers sharp social commentary on the power of social media and both the benefits and horrendous consequences that follow when we give too much of ourselves to technology.” So, jot that down kids
KAYLA: Very relevant, very relevant to today, and also the ace community, and the aro community, which is very online
SARAH: Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to reading this book, very excited, very grateful that Hank entrusted us to advertise this book. So, go check it out! July 7th, hit it out
KAYLA: Help Hank, help support small podcasts, go get that dang book
SARAH: Go get it. What are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: Uh, yes, so this is the rest of the episode now, hello
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: This week, listen, speaking of the internet, yesterday, which was Tuesday when we are currently recording, some dumb… okay, I guess backing up - A lot of ace and aro and demi people have been using TikTok lately to like spread the good word of aceness, which is very cool. We've made a total of one TikTok, I think
SARAH: I tried to make a second one but I had some problems
KAYLA: It was very dramatic and then it didn't exist
SARAH: It won't be happening
KAYLA: It simply will not be coming out, thank you for your thoughts. So anyway, there's a girl who made a great TikTok about what demisexuality is, she was dancing, you know how TikToks do and some dumb man on the Twitter like reposted the video and was like I will never forgive Tumblr for like inventing a sexuality just for people who don’t want to hook up. And just to vent for a second, because this is my podcast, is that I'm used to seeing, unfortunately I'm used to seeing like, aphobic stuff when I'm scrolling through our Twitter but I saw this on my personal Twitter, because people I followed had liked it, and it was people I liked, no one I knew, but people from the internet that I liked, which was just very disappointing and upsetting, I did subtweet about it if you're interested in my thoughts, which are basically what I just said, anyway…
SARAH: I mean it was a super specific subtweet too
KAYLA: Yeah, but it's not like I tagged them
SARAH: Hardly a subtweet
KAYLA: But I didn't tag them, which means it is a subtweet
SARAH: Or say their name, technically
KAYLA: What? They're famous, like what are they going to… anyway, what are they going to do? Anyway, so don't read the replies on that tweet if you find that tweet… There are some nice like aces on there being like, no we're valid, like shut the fuck up. But mostly it's just a lot of terrible people, so don't read it. But a lot of it, I think a lot of the issue that is coming from it is the inherent, like the thought that like it's just a sexual… well there's a lot of issues. The one we're focusing on today is how people think it's like just a sexuality about not hooking up or that asexuality is just a sexuality for people who don't have sex because apparently some people have some confusion about what a sexual orientation is or what a sexuality is versus a sexual activity. So today, we shall just talk about that
SARAH: We're going to lay it all out for ya. I really don't know where to start with this
KAYLA: It's just very, it's hard and there's a lot of good ways of explaining it that people have already done, like people do really good Twitter threads, I forget what her @ is but Elle Rose, she does YouTube
SARAH: She exists in the void that is the internet
KAYLA: Yeah, so Elle Rose on Twitter, her @ is secret but without the first e, lady spider. If you just look up Elle Rose or look at her Twitter, you'll probably find her. She's done a lot of good Twitter threads, like educational Twitter threads, where she does her research and she's very eloquent
SARAH: Eloquent
KAYLA: Eloquent. Anyway and I was recently doing some reading which we'll talk about in a future episode hehehe
SARAH: Hehe
KAYLA: Just about the inherent misunderstanding of what the word sexuality even means and I've struggled with this in past episodes actually where the word sexuality, if you just go up to someone and you ask what's your sexuality which first of all you should not do, that's just simply rude
SARAH: Just like cold call strangers…
KAYLA: Not even if you're their friend though actually I was about to say if they're a close friend but actually don't even do that, that's simply rude
SARAH: The context needs to be right
KAYLA: Yeah, but like hold on, let me look up the word, the definition of sexuality because it can also just refer more broadly to like what you would jo… Like okay, a capacity for sexual feelings, a person's sexual orientation or preference, or just sexual activity, like it can be a very broad thing of like… I'm trying to think of an example. Do you know what I'm talking about?
SARAH: I do, it's like a person can embrace their sexuality in the sense of being a sexual being
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Or they can embrace their sexuality in the fact that like, this is my sexual orientation
KAYLA: Yeah, like if I were to talk broadly about someone's sexuality and them like, embracing their sexuality it could easily just be like, them being like, them embracing themselves as a sexual being of like, doing sexual things, whether that's with or without a second person or more than one person
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, I think that's like, that's the like, inherent base issue I think is that now, sexuality just means to people like, sexual orientation where in a lot of like, works of literature or just like, more broad ways or more like, nuanced ways of talking about it. It can also be like, if you have a kink or like, if you orient a certain way, which we've talked about in the past like that's, or if you like, just like the definition I said, like a preference for a certain type of person or a certain type of like, sexual act is also part of people's broad sexuality. It seems like people out of the aspec community have trouble validating very nuanced things like that
SARAH: Yeah, it's kind of like how the word asexuality both refers to a sexuality, asexual orientation but also can be in reference to a lack of sexuality. Like it's the same idea, where it’s like there are two separate things, but sometimes people either can't understand the difference or they neglect to, they just choose not to and that can be especially harmful to aspec people because it's something that might influence us a little bit more
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean I think that's the great thing, but also the thing that people are most annoyed about I guess about the aspec community is that we focus a lot on those small nuances and those small differences where people outside the community of other identities see that as a very special snowflake or very unnecessary…
SARAH: We’re getting into the weeds, yeah
KAYLA: Like stuff we were talking about in previous episodes about orienting a certain way and splitting your sexual and romantic attraction into two separate ways of thinking about things
SARAH: There's even more stuff that we haven't talked about in this podcast that I don't even understand, so
KAYLA: Yeah. There's a lot of nuances and I personally have not thought about a lot of those nuances for myself because I haven't felt the need to but it can be really helpful for people understanding themselves and feeling accepted and I feel like other identities do it too, to a certain extent in the gay male community having bears and what are the other ones?
SARAH: Twinks.
KAYLA: Twinks. People have a preference for a certain whatever they're called and that's perfectly fine, but just because we make it a bit more official and give it its own name and flag, now it's not okay
SARAH: I mean I think there really is such a double standard when it comes to aspec people or we're just held to a different expectation because if we're going back to just on a very basic level, just talking about the difference between a person's sexual orientation and a person's activity, like sexual activity, like if we're talking about the difference between those two things. So, I'm just going to throw some examples at you, okay? You ready?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Okay. If a gay man dates women and has sex with women before coming to terms with the fact that he's gay, does that make him any less gay?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Okay. If a straight couple, a man and a woman, have a threesome with another woman, does that automatically mean that the woman and the couple is bi or pan?
KAYLA: No, ma'am.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: I feel like we're in court.
SARAH: Yeah, I know. This is court. This is the ace court, bitch.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: If someone experiments in college but ultimately decides that, you know, that was fun but no, they are straight, does that make their sexuality any less valid?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Okay. Before I say this one, I'm going to say trigger warning for discussion of sexual assault. But if a man was sexually assaulted by another man, does it mean that the victim is automatically queer?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: No. Because even if his participation in whatever happened was not voluntary or if it was otherwise coerced, which is, you know, the definition of sexual assault, he was still there. There were still sexual acts that were being engaged in that he was in some way involved with, but that doesn't make him inherently queer. He might be, maybe, but those two things are unrelated. If a person experiments in college, but they decide that they're actually not attracted sexually to people of the same gender, okay, that's an action they did and something they feel. Those are separate.
KAYLA: Well, it's like the concept of a gold star gay or something, which is just so unrealistic and very privileged in a way of, well, I always knew I was gay, I always had resources around me that taught me about being gay, so I always dated men. But it's like some people didn't grow up with great knowledge, and so maybe they did get married to someone of the opposite gender really young and had kids or something. It's nothing.
SARAH: It doesn't reflect on you whether you dated people of a different gender or whatever before you realized you were queer or whatever. It reflects on the society that you were brought up in because you felt like you were supposed to do a certain thing, you were supposed to do this or that. So, it doesn't really reflect on you.
KAYLA: Yeah. Well, it's the same thing with aspec people or arospec people, it’s like we grow up thinking, okay you get to a certain age, you start dating and you have sex. And like even if you realize, I'm not super into this, you might still have sex because you think it's just what you're supposed to do and maybe you'll like it at some point.
SARAH: Yeah. And I think along those lines of that double standard when it comes to aspec people, I also was thinking of the idea, we talked about this last week or the episode before, about the asexuality of children, not that their sexual orientation is asexual.
KAYLA: The non-sexuality.
SARAH: The non-sexuality. I think someone emailed us saying that they referred to it as pre-sexuality. So, if you look at the pre-sexuality of children, take a child who is not engaged in any sexual activity yet, the default is to assume that they're straight. But they haven't engaged in heterosexual sex yet. They've never done the action. So, if you're equating action to sexuality, wouldn't you define that child as asexual? There's just such a double standard where it's like, okay, so you look at an ace person and you're like, well, you had sex once, therefore you can't be ace. But if you look at someone who hasn't had sex before, you don't assume they're ace. You assume they're probably straight.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, like, I think they should, like this should happen, but I think the queer community champions kids that are quite young coming out as queer, which is good. But it isn't, like now that I think about it, a very annoying double standard. I was like, okay, this 10-year-old has probably never dated, never had sex, and they're coming out as gay, it's celebrated by the queer community, cool, but they have just as much “proof” of their sexuality than like a lot of ace people do.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It's dumb as hell.
SARAH: Like it’s not anyone else’s place to decide if a person who is… identifies as aro-ace has had sex with people or continues to have sex with people like that does not reflect upon their sexuality, it just reflects upon their choices and what they want to do. As something that us talked about all the time in queer community, you know, your sexuality is not a choice, but the actions that you take that are a result of that sexuality or perhaps in spite of that sexuality, those are choices
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: So why are we... why why why?
KAYLA: It's just, yeah, because like, okay, you're a gay man. You could have sex with a woman or like a non-binary person or whatever. Like, you physically can do that. And maybe there are reasons that you would. Like, no, you're not sexually attracted to that person, but maybe you just like really want to have sex. And you're like, well, this is the only person here.
SARAH: Or maybe you're just like, I would like to take part in this orgy. I don't really know how orgies work, so I'm actually going to backpedal.
KAYLA: Now, this is an interesting question. The logistics of an orgy seem incredibly stressful.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Like, there has to be always someone kind of like standing around, not doing anything, right? Like, how awkward? That would be even worse than like going to a party and no one really is there that you know and no one's talking to you, so you're just standing there awkwardly and you're like, oh my god, people are looking at me for not talking to anyone. And an orgy, what if no one wants to have sex with you? And you're just standing there like, but I wanted to come to the orgy. That's so sad.
SARAH: That's so sad.
KAYLA: That’s so sad. You guys, make sure to have sex with everyone next time you go to an orgy. At least kiss everyone. Like, don't leave anyone out, even if they're like a little stinky.
SARAH: I would like to reiterate that me and Kayla, neither of us really understand how orgies work.
KAYLA: No, but I have to imagine it happens, right? And if you've been to an orgy, I don't, this is not me asking for you to tell me. No, maybe you have, hmm, no. I don't want to invite that. As if any of our listeners have ever been to an orgy.
SARAH: I was going to say, I feel like very few of our listeners.
KAYLA: But listen, ace people can go to an orgy…
SARAH: They could
KAYLA: And it still doesn't mean they aren't ace.
SARAH: That's true. You know what, if you're an ace person who has been to an orgy, don't tell us the details about the orgy.
KAYLA: But do let us know.
SARAH: Just like, what are the logistics? Like, how does that work?
KAYLA: What happens if you're left out?
SARAH: Right. The only thing that I can think of that I have an understanding of is, I hate that I'm going to say this term, there is a term that's called circle jerk.
KAYLA: I can't imagine that that actually happens.
SARAH: I know, but I'm just like, that's the only thing I can think of where everyone would be somehow involved. But then is that even an orgy? If you don't know what that is, just don't worry about it.
KAYLA: Don't you... we have children that listen to this.
SARAH: If you think about it long enough, you might figure it out.
KAYLA: You'll get it.
SARAH: But don't.
KAYLA: But also, don't think about it a lot, because maybe you're sex repulsed. And also if you're asexual, so I'm sorry that we've been talking about this. I'm sorry.
SARAH: Don't.
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: Don't. Um... You know what, Sarah? It's like, I don't really like strawberry flavored ice cream, but what if I just really wanted ice cream and it's all that was there? You know?
SARAH: Yeah, you might eat it.
KAYLA: Or if my friend was like, I really love strawberry ice cream and it would mean a lot to me if you would eat this ice cream with me. And I was like, well, I don't really like it, but I don't hate it so much that I'll never eat it. And I like you, so let's eat this ice cream.
SARAH: Yeah, you might eat the ice cream. You might enjoy eating the ice cream. You might say, you know, I would eat ice cream with you again in the future.
KAYLA: I'm not going to crave it, probably.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: It's just like, I don't understand, and this is something I have a problem with all people, with all areas of life, is how everyone knows, I guess maybe it's just hard to understand that other people are the same people as you, is you know that you're an incredibly complex person...
SARAH: Imagine people complexly, speaking of Hank Green.
KAYLA: And multiplicities, and whatever. You know you have that, so why couldn't you have the common sense and mental aptitude to realize that if someone does one action once, that doesn't define the rest of everything, every other action they take or how they actually identify.
SARAH: And people, there can be things about people that appear conflicting to the outside person, maybe even appear conflicting to the person themselves, but that doesn't make those things any less true. And we're not saying that you need to sit there and think deeply about every single person you've ever encountered...
KAYLA: No. That's just…
SARAH: How they might view… That is exhausting and we don't have time for that. But just know that other people are complex human beings, and you don't have to go into why they did this or that or whatever, but just fucking accept that, alright, that's the way it be, son.
KAYLA: I guess, I mean, maybe it is a lot to expect of the type of people we're talking about, the people who actively log on to twitter.com and be aphobic loudly, probably aren't the type of people to even realize that they're complex beings. I don't want to generalize. But I feel like…
SARAH: Or they just don't care.
KAYLA: Well, yeah, I just feel like that kind of person is probably a lot of overlap in the venn diagram with the kind of people that are very hypocritical and can't really realize that they do conflicting things as well. I have to imagine there's a significant overlap there.
SARAH: Maybe, but I think if it's something that you're encountering in your real life or on the internet and you bring these things up to people, if they're genuinely well-intentioned then they will take that into consideration and if they're not then just fucking stop talking to them.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's just not someone you need to interact with.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Just unfollow them on Twitter, it's fine.
SARAH: They're not worth your time.
KAYLA: They are not. Talking about the annoying tweet specifically, it was talking about creating a sexuality just for people who don't hook up. I want to get into that because I, as a demisexual person, there's nothing stopping me other than my completely monogamous relationship from like, no there are several things stopping me. Coronavirus shut down the bars. During a different time when I did not have a monogamous relationship, there's nothing stopping me from waltzing into a bar and hooking up with every single person. There's more than that stopping me. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I get it.
SARAH: Regardless of their gender.
KAYLA: Regardless of… anyone.
SARAH: There's nothing that's making it impossible for you to do that.
KAYLA: No, like just because I don't want to and I don't find myself immediately sexually attracted to people, doesn't mean I physically cannot. Or that I hate hookup culture. Is hookup culture for me personally? No. It makes me kind of nauseous to think of me doing it. But I could do it. I'd just be sad. But I could physically do it. But also like I don't fucking care if someone else does it as long as they're being safe and like not hurting anyone. Like I don't care if you're out being a “slut.” Slut it up, dude. I don't care. Slut it the heck up.
SARAH: Welcome to Slut Town.
KAYLA: Slut Town, USA. Get it.
SARAH: But like preferably like in New Zealand right now or like, you know, somewhere where the coronavirus is…
KAYLA: I cannot emphasize this enough. If you're a slut, I do love you, but you've got to tone it down right now.
SARAH: Yeah, I'm sorry for what you may be missing in this time, but I for your own health and safety and for the health and safety of others, you really.
KAYLA: You’re going to have to stop. Like I said, I'm okay with it as long as no one is getting hurt. And if you're out and about, you could be getting sick.
SARAH: Yeah. So just be careful of that. But like, motherfucker, I could go out and hook up with someone.
KAYLA: Sarah could have sex with every single person on this earth. Do you know how many people have had a crush on Sarah? Do you know that Sarah sent me a selfie today with the middle part and she looked absolutely fantastic? I was floored. Anyone Sarah could have sex with anyone. Hank?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Hank, I want you to know specifically if Sarah wanted to, she could.
SARAH: I'm so… he's a married man.
KAYLA: I'm not saying he should, no. I just want him to know.
SARAH: It's the way you phrased it…
KAYLA: I just want him to be aware.
SARAH: It made it seem like you were suggesting that I have sex with Hank and I absolutely do not want to do that.
KAYLA: I'm not saying that. You shouldn't do that. He's married. I'm just wanting him to be aware.
SARAH: Okay, thank you.
KAYLA: I just think it's important that he knows.
SARAH: Okay, that's good to know. But like, I'm not Demi, and I don't like to hook up with people either. But I don't identify as Demi because it's not a fucking choice.
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: I know, right? Like, I am an asexual person who doesn't want to hook up with people.
KAYLA: But there are ace people that will do
SARAH: Make me Demi.
KAYLA: There's ace people that will do… I just, like, the denseness of people to realize that there's more than one reason to have sex with people. Like, they must get it. It's not like if you're gay you want to have sex with every person of the opposite gender all the time.
SARAH: Of the opposite gender?
KAYLA: Of the same gender all the time.
SARAH: So, there's more than two genders.
KAYLA: Of the gender of which you identify all the time. Of the gender of which you are sexually attracted to all the time.
SARAH: Correct. We made it there eventually.
KAYLA: It's just, like, there's other reasons to have sex. It feel good. You're horny. You're bored. It's too cold outside to do anything else. I am sure 100% that people, especially people that have sex with a lot of people, there's got to be at least one person in there who you were not attracted to at all, but you were like, here I am, I'm going to do it for whatever reason.
SARAH: You were like, at this moment in time, I need to have sex right now.
KAYLA: I simply must.
SARAH: And this person is here and they are not an ex-murderer.
KAYLA: And they are consenting, and I'm consenting, and so it's time.
SARAH: It’s time
KAYLA: Boy, I just simply cannot explain enough how being attracted to someone is not only about sexuality, and how you can have sex with anybody who consents, and that doesn't mean anything. I simply don't know how else to say it.
SARAH: I don't either. Yeah, I mean, you have to think that at some point people are just willfully ignorant.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And they're just not willing to listen to the reasoning, and they just want to fight with you on the internet, and they just want to feel superior because they have a more common sexuality, and that makes them superior somehow, as if that's not the whole issue with homophobia to begin with.
KAYLA: Yeah, they really do be just kind of turning it around, huh?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Yeah, but it's just so annoying because I think it's just such a nice hobby of trolls on the internet now. I saw a tweet, I think Yasmin must have posted it or something, because she gets, oh my god, a world of obnoxious people bothering her, which I don't know how she stands that. I would simply cry and run away. But some guy was like, I wonder if I can get kicked off Twitter for being mean to asexuals. I'm going to try. He clearly just...
SARAH: He just wanted attention
KAYLA: Also, he probably won't get kicked off Twitter because Twitter isn't paying attention to asexual people, which is a whole other thing.
SARAH: Yeah, that's why I just ignore that fucking part of… I do not engage with that shit on the internet. If you ever see someone posting from our account about being aphobia…
KAYLA: Being angry
SARAH: There is a 99.9% chance it's Kayla and it's not me.
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:00]
SARAH: So even though I am aro-ace and a lot of times it does refer to me and my sexuality directly, I'm just like, I just don't give a fuck. I'm not going to argue with you. It's not a good use of my time. It just makes me feel shitty.
KAYLA: Wait, you don’t want to like…
SARAH: And that’s what you want, so
KAYLA: Yeah. Not to say that the people who are engaging with it shouldn't, because I do think it's good that there are people talking about it. There's no need for everyone to do it, especially if you know this is going to make me feel like total shit and I'm simply not going to.
SARAH: Yeah. The only time I ever really know what's going on is if Kayla directly brings something to my attention.
KAYLA: And I'm like, can you believe this shit?
SARAH: And I say…
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: So, there's that.
KAYLA: Yes. You know another reason people might want to have sex if they aren't sexually attracted to people?
SARAH: Exercise?
KAYLA: Exercise! One time, I don't remember who told me this, but they were like, I learned in my science class that having sex and mopping a whole floor burns the same amount of calories. I don't know what that's supposed to mean to me. I guess if you're sex repulsed but you still want that good exercise, go mop some floor?
SARAH: Yeah, I saw a tweet recently, I'm not going to go into detail, but the person basically just said that at a certain point in their life, they would only have sex a certain way because it maximized the amount of calories burned.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: So, make of that what you will.
KAYLA: Sarah, put this down. I think we should do a whole episode of reasons to have sex that aren't sexual attraction.
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: I think it could be another classic.
SARAH: Okay, well maybe you should write it down.
KAYLA: Maybe you should write it down.
SARAH: My hands are in my lap right now.
KAYLA: My hands are itching me. They're itching my stomach.
SARAH: Okay, well...
KAYLA: I guess we'll just have to remember.
SARAH: I won't remember.
KAYLA: Someone on the internet like Kevin surely will.
SARAH: Okay. You can't put all the onus on Kevin.
KAYLA: I know, we don't even pay him. In fact, it's the other way around. I'll remember. For free.
SARAH: For free. Yeah, everyone is... it's all dumb. And... I just thought of something I should have said during the ad.
KAYLA: Well... I mean, we can do it.
SARAH: There's queer characters in the books. That's all I'm going to say.
KAYLA: Good. I love that.
SARAH: So... you know. Anyway.
KAYLA: Good.
SARAH: You know what another thing I just thought of was?
KAYLA: Tell me.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: I guess I will.
SARAH: For the identities of bisexual and pansexual.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Specifically with bi, there's not one single definition of what that means.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: And so, for people who identify that way, it's really their choice what term or terms they do or don't use, right? So, like, if they have had sex, it's not like, okay, if you have had sex with this gender and this gender, that makes you bi. And then if you've also had sex with this gender, that makes you bi. Like, no, that's not how any of it works.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: And, you know, a person can know they're bi without having had sex with people of the same gender or another gender. Like…
KAYLA: I definitely know bi people who have only had sex with one gender and they still know it and it's still real.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I think that's also the problem with, like, bisexuality and pansexuality or other identities that...
SARAH: And the erasure that happens there, too.
KAYLA: Yeah, that some members of the greater queer community are like, no thanks.
SARAH: Yeah, like, we're better than you just because to our minds we're simpler. And that's just some bullshit.
KAYLA: That's just boring anyway! Like, stop.
SARAH: Compared… straight people probably think that you're not very simple. So, like, what the fuck are you doing?
KAYLA: I just like, and there's no reason not to get, like, if you want super deep about your exact preferences or exactly what you're into. Like, maybe all these people being aphobic should think about, like, when am I sexually attracted to someone? Like, do I want to do hookups myself or is that just society? Like, in my opinion, if more people knew what demisexuality was and asexuality was and were more tolerant of it, there would be a lot more people that identified that way. Because they just don't realize it's an option. If they would just stop and think about it.
SARAH: Yeah. Well, and there's... So, I think, A, if people who are like aphobic thought more about it, that could help. Another thing that people who are aphobic could do is sit down and think about why the fuck they care.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's like it simply… and I tweeted about this, it simply doesn't matter to you. Like, it doesn't affect you at all.
SARAH: I don't care what you do. Why do you care what I do or don't do?
KAYLA: Like, all we're doing is sometimes not having sex, but sometimes are. But like, it's none of your fucking business.
SARAH: You know what? It's possible that you sometimes don't have sex and sometimes do.
KAYLA: Yeah, what about if you're gay and you go like, three years without having sex for whatever reason? Do you get your gay card taken away? This is a very simplistic way of thinking about...
SARAH: You get your gay card taken away and then suddenly you can give blood.
KAYLA: Oh no. We got to real...
SARAH: Tea.
KAYLA: This is obviously a simple way of thinking about only the sexual orientation, not the romantic orientation. But what if you didn't interact with anyone?
SARAH: These people are being simplistic, so we're going to be simplistic right back at them.
KAYLA: What if you were gay and you didn't sexually interact with anyone or romantically or aesthetically or sensually or any of the other kinds for like 10 years. Well then, what?
SARAH: What if you were alone on a deserted island?
KAYLA: Yeah, what if like... What's the movie with the volleyball?
SARAH: Hatchet?
KAYLA: No, the one where he makes a face on the volleyball and he's like, this is my friend now.
SARAH: Oh, that sounds vaguely familiar.
KAYLA: It's like Tom Hanks or something?
SARAH: My brain... Castaway?
KAYLA: Maybe?
SARAH: I've never seen that movie so I don't know.
KAYLA: Me either.
SARAH: For some reason my brain went directly...
KAYLA: Wilson. That's what the ball is called, is Wilson.
SARAH: Okay. For some reason my brain went directly to Hatchet, which is like a middle…
KAYLA: It is Castaway
SARAH: School reader age book that I read probably in like fourth or fifth grade. And I read the book Hatchet.
KAYLA: I've heard people talk about Hatchet, but I've simply never read it.
SARAH: Yeah, I've read it.
KAYLA: Yeah, I…
SARAH: For some reason my brain went straight to Hatchet.
KAYLA: No, it was Castaway. I don't know what I was talking about. Oh yeah. So, what if, dude? Like what?
SARAH: Yeah. Like, what you do and what your orientation is are not the same, they never have been, let's fucking stop talking about it.
KAYLA: Let's just freaking stop.
SARAH: Yeah. On that note, what's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: On that note, let's stop the podcast.
SARAH: Let's stop.
KAYLA: Um, today's poll, do you imagine people complexly?
SARAH: I feel like a lot of people are going to say yes just to make themselves feel good.
KAYLA: That's true.
SARAH: Because I don't always imagine people complexly.
KAYLA: I don't either.
SARAH: I mean, no one is able to do that all the time. The point is that you try, right?
KAYLA: Yes. Do you promise to try your hardest to imagine people complexity this week? Yes or yes?
SARAH: Complexity.
KAYLA: Shut the fuck up.
SARAH: But you know what, because I'm imagining you complexly, I know that was just a mistake.
KAYLA: Wow, Sarah, you're so nice.
SARAH: Thank you. Okay, I don't know, sure. Uh, Kayla, what's your beef and your juice this week? Oh no, I'm yawning.
KAYLA: Oh man, what is my dang beef and my juice this week?
SARAH: Um, my beef is that in addition to all the bullshit going on in the United States, there is bullshit going on all over the world.
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: And I hate it, but I also think it's good for people to be informed about it.
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: There's shit going on in Yemen that COVID is just compounding because there's a humanitarian crisis. Israel is annexing Palestine, which is against international law. Hong Kong is basically not Hong Kong anymore.
KAYLA: Love it.
SARAH: It's essentially just turning into a regular Chinese city. They're basically losing all the rights that they were given. What else is happening?
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Hank Green has a book coming out.
SARAH: Hank Green has a book coming out? That's not beef, that's juice.
KAYLA: That’s right
SARAH: Uyghur Muslims are being sterilized so that they stop having children. It's not good. But I urge you to look into what's going on in the world and do some things about it. My juice honestly is that I'm going to get to read A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor. We told you, Hank, we would have done this for free.
KAYLA: She really would have. She promotes your podcast simply all the dang time. More than she probably promotes our own podcast.
SARAH: That's probably true.
KAYLA: That's probably true. I'm just going to do juice. I agree with your beef that the world is burning. My juice is that my Animal Crossing island got a new villager. Dom, I guess she's a sheep. A ram? I don't know. Exciting times.
SARAH: Are rams men? Is it like the cattle thing?
KAYLA: Is anyone men, Sarah?
SARAH: Is anyone men? That's a great question.
KAYLA: That's a poll.
SARAH: I don't have an answer to it.
KAYLA: That's the poll. Is anyone men? I'm making that the second poll. You can't simply stop me.
SARAH: I wasn't going to. Is anyone men?
KAYLA: Is... listen, is anyone men?
SARAH: I just don't think anyone is men.
KAYLA: Me neither.
SARAH: And that's something that we should sit down with and think about.
KAYLA: Complexly.
SARAH: Complexly, yeah. Alright, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, your complex understanding of the people around you, and your thoughts on is men on our social media @SoundsFakePod. We're also on basically all the other social media except Facebook because fuck Facebook and you know what? Fuck Zuck. Fuck Zuck.
KAYLA: Get him.
SARAH: We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Again, we are working on transcription. It’s just…
KAYLA: But Hank is helping us.
SARAH: Hank is helping us.
KAYLA: This episode helped us. And also, just a reminder that all of our other episodes are sponsored by our patrons and we love them very much.
SARAH: We love them very much.
KAYLA: Even though they aren't Hank Green.
SARAH: Even though they aren't Hank.
KAYLA: We love them, maybe even more. Sorry Hank. But… I don’t know
SARAH: Sorry. Our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Astritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney, Perry Fierro, Dee, Megan Rowell, Quinn Pollock, Emily Collins, BookMarvel, Changeling MX, Derrick and Carissa, Simona Simon, Jamie jack, Jessica Shea, Rio Faustino, Daniel Walker, Barefoot Backpacker, Livy, Madeline Askew, Lily, Madeline Askew, James, Corinne, Aliceisinspace, Sky Simpson, Brooke Siegel, and Ashley W. Thank you Ashley for joining the ranks.
KAYLA: Welcome Ashley. We like you more than Hank Green. Can you even imagine it? This gift we've just given you.
SARAH: Wild. Hey Hank, if you're still listening, which I doubt you even started listening.
KAYLA: There's no way. There's simply no way.
SARAH: I doubt you even started listening. I would just like to let you know that I once saw you in the lobby at...
KAYLA: This is now a podcast only for Hank Green. Everyone take out your headphones. This is only for Hank now.
SARAH: I saw you in the lobby at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam and I wanted to say hi, but I didn't want to make a scene and I chickened out and then I didn't get to say hi.
KAYLA: I've never seen you if it makes you feel better, Hank. Never in my days.
SARAH: Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyuncleKevin @Tessa_m_k, Arcness who'd like to promote the Trevor project, Benjamin Ybarra who'd like to promote Tabletop games, anonymous who’d like to promote Halloween, Sarah McCoy who'd like to promote podcasts from a planet weird, my aunt Jennie who'd like to promote Christopher’s Haven, Cassandra who'd like to promote their modeling Instagram @liddowred, Doug rice who would like to promote Native by Caitlin Curtis and Maggie Capellbo whose dog can be found at @minniemuffin19 on Instagram, and H.Valdez.
KAYLA: Good dog.
SARAH: Good dog. Our… oh my god another juice, my sister got a cat named Arugula.
KAYLA: She did. It's a very good boy.
SARAH: Anyway. Our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White, Nathanieljwhitedesigns.com, my mom Julie who’d like to promote… you know what I’m trying to say, free mom hugs, Sarah Jones who is @eternallolli everywhere, Dea Chappelle who would like to promote the Underrealm series by Garrett Robinson, Andy A. who likes to promote Being in Unions and the IWW, and Dragonfly who would like to promote Hank's book.
KAYLA: Wow, Dragonfly, that's so nice of you.
SARAH: Thanks for listening…
KAYLA: You shouldn't have.
SARAH: You shouldn't have, but you did. Thanks for listening and tune in next… whoa. Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, read your cow a Beautifully Foolish Endeavor, but only after you read it a absolutely remarkable thing. You don't want it getting confused. You know how cows are. Goodbye.
SARAH: Yeah, it would probably be a little confusing.
KAYLA: I said goodbye.
SARAH: Anyway, bye!
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]