Ep 106: How Witches Represent the Asexual Experience
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SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to sounds fake but okay a podcast where an aro-ace girl. I'm Sarah. That's me
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl, that's me Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode witches are asexual
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay
[Intro Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Oh M’ommy, oh, yes nailed it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I just came up with that one off the top of my head. Are you proud of mom?
SARAH: I am so happy for you.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: Thank you
KAYLA: Thank you
SARAH: Uh, Kayla
KAYLA: Yes, papa
SARAH: Since our… okay. Since our last podcast came out we did something cool
KAYLA: I know
SARAH: Would you like to tell our friends about it?
KAYLA: I would, I was just telling my therapist about it, she told me she was proud of me, anyway.
SARAH: Nice
KAYLA: Yeah. We on Monday so long ago now when you're listening, we did an event at our Alma mater The University of Michigan for the Spectrum Center, which is like the queer Center of events and things at U of M, we did an event, we did a presentation
SARAH: Yeah, we did. It was cool. I was there in person. Kayla was there via video.
KAYLA: It was horrifying. You can see the picture on our social media. My face is like giant on the projector and I look like a minion…
SARAH: You could have… yes, Kayla was dressed like a minion.
KAYLA: Okay, I was wearing black overall. I was wearing new clothes that I just got and I was very excited about them. I was wearing black overalls and a yellow turtleneck and I thought I looked great and no one told me all day. And then I…
SARAH: I didn't say you didn't look great. I just said you looked like a minion
KAYLA: I also don't I didn't because minions have blue overalls
SARAH: Well, I couldn't really tell through the camera.
KAYLA: Well, I know anyway. So we were about to start this presentation in which we were both very nervous for and then Sarah was like, “you look like a minion” and like… Horrifying, I was so sad. Yeah, it was really cool, we've never done like an in-person thing before. There were some of you there that like already listen, you might be listening now after you were there
SARAH: Hello
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: Yeah. Thank you for coming for those of you who came… for those of you who came who didn't know who we were ahead of time and if you're listening now…
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: Wow, why?
KAYLA: Why did you come? Why did you go there?
SARAH: Welcome to our little fun time. But it was really cool because I mean we've had people like email us and message us online and be like thank you for doing the podcast like this is… it helped me whatever, but like for the first time we had people saying that to us in person.
KAYLA: I got so emotional
SARAH: And I did not know what to do. It wasn't even in person for you. It was like person to screen.
KAYLA: Yeah, but they were still…
SARAH: For me it was face to face.
KAYLA: Well, but I could see their face and they were still like saying it to my face
SARAH: Yeah. And so, I was like wow that's nice. I don't know how to interact with the human
KAYLA: Yeah, it was very like I didn't know what to say because usually like you guys will email us like very lovely emails and then we have time to like read it and then get back to you when we're like…
SARAH: And sometimes we take so long to get back to you. We're sorry.
KAYLA: Yes. Sorry. There are several emails right now that we need to get back to. But yeah, it was just like it was really cool to hear that in person and like very emotional and yeah, it was really cool
SARAH: Yeah, it was cool but yeah, the event was for Asexual Awareness Week, the Spectrum Center was doing some fun things, there's another thing that's actually I think finishing up right about now as we're recording this but I couldn't drive all the way there
KAYLA: You know, but yeah, they were doing like three events throughout the week. It was really cool.
SARAH: Yeah, it was super cool and there were really squishy chairs that I didn't get to sit in well, no, the person asked me if I wanted to sit in a chair and then I was like no, I'm too antsy I need to stand.
KAYLA: That’s it. Yeah, but the person running of the event was super nice and was like…
SARAH: Yeah, they were wonderful.
KAYLA: Very helpful and very wonderful. So.
SARAH: Yeah. And also, Asexual Awareness Week, by the time this is out. It'll be over but I hope everyone felt that everyone was very aware of them last week.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I had a friend message me... I mean we were already having like a Snapchat conversation like we had a streak. So like we were just sending each other random things and she was like, I just want you to know I'm really aware of you right now and I was like, wow, thank you.
KAYLA: Very validating. Very good.
SARAH: Yeah, my sister also told me she was aware of me. It's great
KAYLA: Wow, no one has told me they're aware of me, so…
SARAH: I'm aware of you.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: It's still Ace Awareness Week for us, so
KAYLA: That's true. Thank you. I did wear a flannel today and my friend co-worker was like flannels are for gays. She had said that yesterday and I was like, well, it's Asexual Awareness Week so I can wear flannels.
SARAH: I can do whatever I want.
KAYLA: I can do whatever I want
SARAH: Yeah, and for the presentation I wore the Aro-Ace shirt that you gave me.
KAYLA: I know it was very exciting
SARAH: It was festive.
KAYLA: It was festive.
SARAH: Um, what else? It hasn't happened for us yet, but it will have happened for you, was AVEN started a blog recently, which is really cool.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And we're on it. Not yet for us, but yes for you
KAYLA: Well, we've sent them things to put on it.
SARAH: It just hasn't been published yet. It was like Q&A and in the beginning of the week, they're talking to their staff, I'm not sure who else they talked to because for us it hasn't happened yet, but…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Check that out.
KAYLA: But yeah, and we posted some nice little sound bites this week that are festive for Asexual Awareness Week. We're really hopping on the train here.
SARAH: I hope it was good for everyone. I know some people in our Discord were talking about how Ace Awareness Week can sometimes be hard like Pride Week is, we're like for some reason the only two weeks out of the year that people realize ace people are real is the only two weeks we're like really trying to celebrate, so hopefully you didn't run into too many aphobes.
KAYLA: Yeah, and sometimes when we when we make ourselves more apparent you get more pushback from the aphobes and that sucks.
SARAH: So, I hope that didn't happen to anyone
KAYLA: Yeah, but if it did we're here for you, our small community. I hope the week was good for you overall. Lots of exciting stuff happened.
SARAH: Indeed. Yes. So, Kayla
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: This week for this week's podcast. All right, here's the deal this episode is going to come out This Sunday before Halloween, right?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Last year we talked about sexy Halloween costumes and this year I was like, what should we talk about for? You know for Halloween, let's do something thematic and fun. So, I looked up “Asexual Halloween” and came up with basically nothing, just some people arguing about whether Halloween is like ace or anti-ace. I don't know. But here is the thing. I think it’s time for aces, specifically female aces, but just like aces in general. You're all welcome ace-spec folks, you are all welcome. It's time for us to take back Halloween because I think our real roots are amongst witches and to a certain extent Skeletons.
KAYLA: Oh, you didn't tell me that one.
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Was that supposed to be a surprise?
SARAH: No, it's just I have more to say about witches
KAYLA: Okay, well the skeletons really were a surprise. I mean, this is all surprised me Sarah, I got home from therapy because I am a self-care queen and I was like Sarah let me eat a snack and then we can record and then in the time where I was eating my pretzels and Hummus, Sarah was like “I think witches are asexual” and then she was like, okay. I'm ready to record. Are you ready yet? So, I really have no idea what's going on for the most part?
SARAH: Yeah. I like got pretty excited and I took down some notes
KAYLA: Which is pretty standard for episodes I think is you handle the content and I am here
SARAH: React. Yes, okay. So, then I was like, okay Aces are witchy. Which is…
KAYLA: Okay, so why… you said this to me too. What about aces? Do you think is inherently witchy?
SARAH: I'm getting there.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: I'm not… I'm going to… Okay, I'm going to skip over why I think that for a second
KAYLA: Okay fine
SARAH: And then in a second, I'll explain, so I was…
KAYLA: My cat is here, how witchy? It’s my familiar.
SARAH: How witchy? Hi Billet. So, I was like, okay, so then I just googled the word witches. This one does… and I found this article that was released today on the conversation.com which the tagline for this website is academic rigor journalistic flair.
KAYLA: Jesus
SARAH: And this is an article called most witches are women because witch hunts were all about persecuting the powerless and I was like “Sounds like a bummer” And so I was reading this article and I think witches are in a lot of ways definitely very connected to the ace experience specifically the female ace experience. Okay. Are you ready?
KAYLA: Well, can we talk about witches in general first?
SARAH: Yes, go for it.
KAYLA: Okay. Well, I just wanted to say because it's not like the topic of witches as like a historical or a commentary topic is new
SARAH: No, and there's a lot of different understandings of what witches are.
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: Yeah, because I know like I'm pretty sure our, U of M, our college had a whole class about witches and it was like in the women's studies major about like talking about yeah why were women like prosecuted during this time and like what else can we learn about it and like looking at the stereotype of what a witch is, like what can we learn about like how people treat women any of it?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, I just wanted to like lay that as the groundwork of like I think there's already a lot of like Interesting cultural stuff going on with the imagery of witches and like why we call women witches sometimes
SARAH: Yes, and I mean at the beginning of this they were talking about like when powerful men say it's like a witch hunt, you know, it's kind of problematic.
KAYLA: Tea
SARAH: Relevant, but okay, so the two understandings of witches that I'm kind of focusing on here in my argument that I am kind of sort of creating on the spot is that the… so the first idea is think of like your standard American idea of what a witch is like a woman with a pointy hat with a cauldron and like a flying broomstick.
KAYLA: Oh, I have even more than that
SARAH: What? give me more
KAYLA: Green…
SARAH: Green…
KAYLA: Big nose with like a mole or wart
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Usually like ugly and old
SARAH: They have a cat probably
KAYLA: They have a cat
SARAH: Yeah, so here's the thing, those type of people, those witches are like undesirable women but I think they're living their best lives. Listen female friendships, witches hang out with each other, witches have a good time, I assume they probably like curse men who pursue them romantically. That sounds like a good time, it sounds super ace. I just think that we're viewing these witches as like oh they’re horrible, but I think honestly witches are pretty pleased with their lives.
KAYLA: That is an interesting way to look at it because I think… I feel like I've read stuff about how like when women actors get old like the only thing that they can play is like a grandmother or a witch and how it's like really offensive and it is that like old men get to have good roles and old women don't but like I think yeah, like people inherently see witches at least that kind is like very unsexual and they take it as like…
SARAH: It’s like a bad thing.
KAYLA: Yeah, an insult and I think in some cases it definitely can be
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because like in general we shouldn't be desexualizing older women just because they're older
SARAH: Just because they're older. Yeah.
KAYLA: But I do think that there is a positive way to look at it
SARAH: Yeah, like imagine just being like this woman who like curses men and rides around on a broomstick in the sky at night with her friends?
KAYLA: That sounds rad
SARAH: That… did you say bad or rad
KAYLA: Rad
SARAH: Wow. What year is it?
KAYLA: You know
SARAH: But yes, like to me that seems very ace like female friendship like who the fuck cares about like romantic relationships. Like other people may not understand your lifestyle. They may look down on it. They may think that you're probably like sad and angry, but actually kind of having a good time
KAYLA: You know what that makes me think of?
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Um, the Scarlet Letter for some reason.
SARAH: I was going to get there
KAYLA: Were you going to get there?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Whoa, we're so connected.
SARAH: We're so in love.
KAYLA: See why would I even need to do research?
SARAH: I was thinking of the Crucible
KAYLA: Oh, wait, was I thinking…
SARAH: The Crucible or the Scarlet letter? Yeah, either way, I think they both definitely have a connection to what I'm going to say.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Moving forward.
KAYLA: I'll let you… fine I'll just sit here. God
SARAH: So moving forward to the other idea of witches is the idea of like Salem witch trials, witch hunts, burning witches at the stake which this article from the conversation.com I was reading it and I was like, yeah this checks out. So they were talking about… the person who wrote this article who Bridget Marshall who is an associate professor of English at the University of Massachusetts Lowell, and she apparently teaches a class about like the witch trials and she's talking about how like most of the people found guilty of witchcraft were women and she references a book by Carol F Carlson, which was called The Devil in the Shape of a Woman
KAYLA: Ooh. That’s a fun title
SARAH: And I was like… I feel like that really encapsulates what the issue with witches are because like as she goes on to explain in this article like The Salem witch trials involved a very religious Puritan community and as she says in this article um, she says “the Puritans thought women should have babies, raise children, manage household life, and model Christian subservience to their husbands. Recalling even her sinful apple, Puritans also believed that women were more likely to be tempted by the devil” so people who were viewed as witches were people who stepped outside of that. People who didn't have babies, didn't raise children, didn't manage household life and so they become like non-traditional women they become devils because they… you know people come after them because they don't give men what they want. They don't be these subservient people they don't have kids. They don't blah blah blah blah ace, ace
KAYLA: I feel like… Because though I feel like those women would be called like spinsters or whatever like women who like never get
SARAH: Yes. like old cat ladies, you know
KAYLA: Yeah. And I feel like the image of a spinster or an old cat lady is like very similar to the image we have of witches and like
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: I feel like often people who are like called spinsters are also like thought of as kind of witchy
SARAH: Exactly, um so then it goes on to say like “when women stepped outside of their prescribed roles, they became targets.” Um this one woman was…Mary Webster, was married without children and relied on neighborly charity to survive. She was not meek and graceful enough for the alms she received she developed a reputation for being unpleasant. I don't know. Sounds like a badass to me. She was accused of witchcraft in 1683 when she was around 60. They claimed she worked with the devil to bewitch local livestock and then they said she was not guilty and then a few months later uh, one of her neighbors fell ill and they blamed her and attempted to hang her
KAYLA: Jesus Christ
SARAH: And then… but then Mary Webster survived the attempted execution
KAYLA: Oh boy.
SARAH: An icon, but here's the thing. I just think it's very much like okay these are the types of women that threaten men because they are you know stepping out of line as in an ace person. Now this article continues to go on to talk about how um, it also went the other way around like if and this is where we kind of come to um the Scarlet Letter and also the Crucible as like oh wow, I forgot to breathe…
KAYLA: Oh, so excited about witches
SARAH: Oh classic. This is where it gets to the Scarlet Letter and the Crucible and that like also if you're too like sexual you're also seen as like you're a witch. Uh, like what crabby old men might call loose women, you know
KAYLA: Oh Jesus
SARAH: Yeah, and a lot of the people who accused people of being witches in Salem or just in New England at this time were other women. My guess is because those women felt threatened because these other women were stepping out of line whether in the fact that they were stepping out of line as like I'm not going to have kids or like stepping out of line is like I want to fuck some men and have a good time
KAYLA: Yeah, I feel like they're like… I don't know like jealous that these women were like having a freer lifestyle and they probably like subconsciously really wanted that and so the only way to like deal with that feeling was to like turn it into hatred
SARAH: Yes, um, and it really goes down to this whole broader issue of like women going after women for which and benefiting the patriarchy and doing so and blah blah blah, but what conclusion I came to was that I think Halloween can really be a place where aces and… but also like women and men and anyone who wear sexy Halloween costumes can really come together because we are both rebelling against the status quo against what is expected of us, especially if we're women against men in a lot of cases and Halloween is a celebration of this whether you're a witchy ace woman or a sexy Waluigi
KAYLA: Wow, that was a real throwback
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Yeah. I'm just saying I think the two groups should come together and embrace Halloween and say fuck you to all of these people who think you can define what we can and can't do?
KAYLA: I mean it's very true because I think with both the like whether you're like a “prudy witch” or like a loose witch or if you're like a modest dresser or like a sexy dresser on Halloween, both of the cases are like damned if you do, damned if you don't
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Because if you're a girl that dresses sexy on Halloween people like slut shame you but they also expect you to be that way but then they also don't like when people are conservative
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: So, it's like if we all just like stood up for each other
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: It would be fine
SARAH: I think witchy women are real allies to the ace community.
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: I think some of them may be ace themselves. I think they're very representative of ace women, now to jump quickly to skeletons...
KAYLA: Well, what if I had more witch thoughts?
SARAH: Oh, I only have like one skeleton thought we can really jump back at any time.
KAYLA: Oh boy. Okay
SARAH: So, skeletons are like seen as heartless because they literally don't have hearts and…
KAYLA: Are they?
SARAH: I mean, they don't have hearts.
KAYLA: I mean, I guess I've just never thought about a skeleton like that.
SARAH: They don't have like brains or like they're just skeletons.
KAYLA: I guess
SARAH: And that sounds like an analogy allos would make to aces. So, I think we should reclaim the skeletons
KAYLA: Interesting
SARAH: What were you going to say about witches?
KAYLA: Oh, I was just going to say the conversation reminded me of like sirens which I feel like we've hypothesized that sirens are ace before, have we talked about this?
SARAH: Yeah. I remember talking about it, but I don't remember what we said
KAYLA: Well, I was thinking about this the other day for some reason and I think either what we said or what my stance is now is that because sirens were luring men to their death? They were like being all sexy just to kill them and I was like that's quite ace. Not that like I don't want to put the stereotype on ace people that we're just going around murdering but
SARAH: Yeah, or like leading people on but
KAYLA: But could be. So, I don't know. I feel like that reminds me of that
SARAH: Yeah. Listen I got through that really fast because I got like pretty excited.
KAYLA: What else is new?
SARAH: The last sentence of this article says “women were both the victims and the accused in this terrible American history, casualties of a society created and controlled by powerful men” listen
KAYLA: I'm listening
SARAH: Ace women, promiscuous women, promiscuous… Whatever that song is about.
KAYLA: Uh-huh.
SARAH: I'm just saying Halloween is ours. That's all
KAYLA: Both ace women and promiscuous women?
SARAH: Yeah. Halloween is ours
KAYLA: And people who are both?
SARAH: Yeah. It's ours now.
KAYLA: Oh, all right. I mean that's yeah
SARAH: Yeah, so take that ace-spec folks. It's ours now. So, uh tell your friends
KAYLA: I do like this reclaiming because I feel like it could be seen as negative of like because people are like oh witches are gross and like no one would want them anyway. So of course, they're ace, but it's like no…
SARAH: Witches are cool
KAYLA: Witches are very powerful ladies who have magic powers first of all like hello who are just like living their lives. I've never seen a witch… I've never seen a portrayal of a witch when she was like in a romantic relationship except for like Disney movies
SARAH: Or like Harry Potter, but that's a very different understanding
KAYLA: That's different like type of I mean like I feel like teen Disney like TV movies.
SARAH: Yeah, like Sabrina the Teenage Witch
KAYLA: Yeah, but that's like also a different kind of witch I think
SARAH: It is. Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah. I like this what are some other Halloween characters that we think are ace
SARAH: The Ghostbusters
KAYLA: Have you seen the Ghostbusters?
SARAH: I've only seen the all-female reboot
KAYLA: Okay, because the in the original Ghostbusters, there's this very weird scene where this man has a very like weird sexual encounter with a spirit lady which doesn't mean he's not ace but…
SARAH: Yeah, I just…
KAYLA: I don't know if I buy that one.
SARAH: I think that the Ghostbusters should be ace
KAYLA: Yeah, as if people didn't hate the all-female reboot enough. Is that not enough for you?
SARAH: Well, I mean in that reboot like they just had Chris Hemswort around because he was hot, he was so stupid
KAYLA: Yes, that's true
SARAH: Anyway, uh I don't know.
KAYLA: What are your stances… What's your stance on ghosts?
SARAH: That's a vague statement, what is my stance on ghosts? like do I think they exist?
KAYLA: Well, yeah, okay, I mean we can go there first of all, but I meant like sexuality-wise
SARAH: Oh, like ghosts are gay. I think all ghosts are queer
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: Uh, it just seems right. I think that they all have kind of different sexualities, I think a lot of them have very fluid sexualities because they themselves are also very fluid because they're ghosts um
KAYLA: Ghosts are…
SARAH: Are queer
KAYLA: Oh, but what about like… so ghosts are just like the spirits of people who died
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, if a straight person dies?
SARAH: They cannot become a ghost
KAYLA: Oh my god.
SARAH: Straight people cannot become ghosts, only queer people can become ghosts
KAYLA: But see, a lot of people say that ghosts happen when people have unfinished business
SARAH: Yeah, that sounds like queer people to me
KAYLA: Well, yeah, but so just straight people do not have unfinished business or they just don't get the privilege of finishing their business?
SARAH: They don't get the privilege. If they want to deal with their unfinished business, they get turned into a slug
KAYLA: See, but this… I mean, I don't want to like not all straight people here, but like is sort of punishing the nice people for like because of people like Trump, you know
SARAH: Listen, I'm just saying all ghosts are queer. I don't make the choice…
KAYLA: Especially since it’s like not a choice which we preach?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: You know, I feel bad for the person...
SARAH: It's not a choice whether you… it's not a choice whether you become a ghost or not either.
KAYLA: I know I just feel bad that these people didn't choose to be straight and then they don't get to be a ghost
SARAH: I mean you're making being a ghost sound like super cool. I think there are definitely some also really cool options for the afterlife that aren't ghosts.
KAYLA: I know but what if they really wanted to be a ghost?
SARAH: I think they could take it up with the ghost master.
KAYLA: What's your… what's your like ideal afterlife? Like mystical on top. We don't need to get wild like
SARAH: I don't know what do you mean?
KAYLA: Like do you want to be a ghost or like a demon or like a skellington? Although you know the options of like zombie, you know undead situations
SARAH: Right. I don't think I would want to be undead because they just kind of lose control of their brain. And…
KAYLA: Well, it depends on what kind of zombie you're talking about, depending on the franchise. There's a lot of zombie options
SARAH: That's true. And I just watched Zombie Land 2 and…
KAYLA: Was it good?
SARAH: And Zombie Land 2… Was it good?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I thought it was pretty good. My dad said it was not horrible, but the first one was better which from him is like a pretty good review
KAYLA: Have you seen the first one?
SARAH: Yeah, we watched it.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Um, but they talk about how over time zombies evolved. Now there's four different types of zombies.
KAYLA: Oh, see this is interesting.
SARAH: And there's like the super stupid ones who are called homers
KAYLA: Oh, no
SARAH: And then there's like some other ones and there's like the really smart ones that are like really hard to kill so… But still, I wouldn't want to risk it with that to be honest.
KAYLA: So, what would you want to be?
SARAH: I think I would either want to be a ghost or like a skeleton sort of thing because I feel like they kind of get to control what they do like they're like, I want… well no, I wouldn't I guess what are the rules of being a ghost like…
KAYLA: See that's what I'm wondering because some people the thing with ghosts is like they have to finish their business or like they have to be trapped
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: They have some baggage.
SARAH: I wouldn't want to do that if I could travel freely I think it would be cool to be a ghost
KAYLA: I don't think ghosts get to travel freely though.
SARAH: I guess it depends who you ask
KAYLA: I guess, my philosophy on ghosts though is I don't think they get to
SARAH: Interesting, what about just like skeletons? I'm looking at my two skellies. They're in love
KAYLA: Skeletons, I think could move because they didn't turn into ghosts so they don't have what are you doing? Stop, the cat. Stop being spooky. It's not for you.
SARAH: I thought you were talking to me, and I was like I'm taking a sip of my beverage.
KAYLA: How dare you ow oh my god this bitch. What was I saying? Oh yeah, okay, so skeletons so obviously if a… oh my god I'm going to kill you. Obviously, listen, Obvious…I’m trying to be really serious about ghosts and skeletons right now. If someone dies and they don't become a ghost then obviously they didn't have unfinished business or someone to haunt, so they must be like chilling
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: So, then they couldn't… if they don't become something else like a demon or an angel or whatever then they get to be a Skellington
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Which makes me think they're like chilling. They don't have unfinished business. They can… once they dig themselves up probably travel however the far they can get and go wherever
SARAH: And they can't feel pain because they don't have nerves
KAYLA: That's true.
SARAH: They can just like run over rocks now. Here's my question so you can become us a ghost which is like the spirit
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You could become a Skellington which is like the physical skeleton. What about like the organs and the skin and the muscle and the sinew I said it right that time?
KAYLA: Well, those disintegrate and go into the earth
SARAH: Here's my idea
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: The spirit goes… like you… there are three options. You either become a spirit like a ghost, you become a skeleton or all of your like squishy parts of your body just like amalgamate into a blob and that comes to life
KAYLA: I don't like this…
SARAH: Like a blob fish.
KAYLA: I don't like this. Are you telling me that every blob fish is a dead person?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I don't like this at all. This is the spookiest one of the bunch
SARAH: Spooky as heck
KAYLA: I don't like that
SARAH: And nothing to do with asexuality, but I just got excited.
KAYLA: What about like Jack-o-lanterns like personified ones. What's their deal?
SARAH: They just die though, they like collapse and they smell bad, especially if it's warm out.
KAYLA: That's fair
SARAH: Like they're not immortal. They just die
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, that's my hot take, but I do not believe in ghosts in real life. So
KAYLA: I don't know I'm complicated, I feel like I might I don't know
SARAH: Wow
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Let's dive into this. Why do you feel that way? You watch too much BuzzFeed Unsolved
KAYLA: I do watch a lot of BuzzFeed Unsolved though I'm not up to date on this current season. It's actually BuzzFeed Supernatural actually the ghost one. So, correct yourself, please. Um, I don't know. I mean I feel like there's not a reason for them. I have no reason to like definitively say they don't exist you know
SARAH: What do you think happens when we die?
KAYLA: I mean, I don't know. I think it depends on your situation.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Like I really do think that it's possible… Like I don't even know if it's so much ghosts I believe in as like energies
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: And like… Because I don't feel like I believe in like someone's going to appear and you're going to like see them in like a ghostly form but like the idea of like energies or like I've heard a lot of people like seeing signs from like dead relatives and stuff when certain stuff happens.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: And like I don't know. I have no reason to believe that that's not possible
SARAH: All right
KAYLA: Like I understand it's out there and that probably a lot of people disagree with me but like it makes…
SARAH: Nothing is definitive
KAYLA: Well, yeah, it's…
SARAH: You don't know anything for sure
KAYLA: It's more interesting for me to believe that it's true because it's just like… I mean, it's just more interesting, I think it leaves more options open.
SARAH: All right. Okay. My stance is that I just have no idea what happens when we die.
KAYLA: I mean, that's fair. I think…
SARAH: Other than our bodies decay.
KAYLA: Maybe I don't so much believe in ghosts as like hope they're real
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: And so…
SARAH: And you hope they're all queer?
KAYLA: I mean, I guess
SARAH: Yeah, okay
KAYLA: I don't know. I think I just like don't know what happens because like none of us really do
SARAH: If you…
KAYLA: I like to believe that's true
SARAH: If you could haunt one living person
KAYLA: Anyone? Okay. What do we mean by haunt back it up?
SARAH: Fuck with them.
KAYLA: Okay, so I’m like not good haunting because I think there is good haunting
SARAH: What's the difference? haunting is haunting
KAYLA: Well, I know but I think a ghost could like be with someone in a comforting way, like protecting them and then you could like fuck with someone
SARAH: Okay. I think I would haunt… now my instinct is like I would haunt Donald Trump.
KAYLA: I was thinking that
SARAH: But then I was like, you know what? I kind of want to haunt Ivanka Trump
KAYLA: Interesting, tell me more.
SARAH: I initially was like maybe Melania, but I was like no I want to haunt Ivanka Trump into giving up all of her father's secrets
KAYLA: Wow, okay.
SARAH: I… because here's the thing, Don Jr. And whatever the fuck his other son's name is not barren the older one um they have no souls.
KAYLA: They're in so deep
SARAH: They're in too deep. I think Ivanka is in very deep, but I think Ivanka is pretty smart. I would say Tiffany Trump, but I don't think she knows anything
KAYLA: I think of all of the children Ivanka is the only one I think that could turn
SARAH: Yeah, I think it's unlikely but I think it's she maybe has the capacity which is why I would haunt Ivanka Trump
KAYLA: I like this
SARAH: Who would you haunt?
KAYLA: I kind of like the idea of haunting you
SARAH: Oh
KAYLA: Because I just feel like there's a lot of possibilities there
SARAH: But then you would see all the weird things I do when I'm alone
KAYLA: As if… okay, Sarah, we lived together for a long time, I've seen a lot
SARAH: Yeah, but like… I don't know man.
KAYLA: I don't know. I just feel like there's a lot of really good opportunities there to fuck with you
SARAH: Like how often do you talk to yourself when you're alone?
KAYLA: Not as often as you do
SARAH: Yeah, and I would feel like that was infringed upon and I would feel uncomfortable with you…
KAYLA: But you wouldn't know
SARAH: What if you just started talking back one day?
KAYLA: I mean also I feel like ghosts don't haunt 24/7. They've got to have other stuff.
SARAH: That's true. Like I would be like ghost like work laws. You cannot work 24/7
KAYLA: No, that's very true.
SARAH: Like they have unions.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So…
KAYLA: And yeah… So, I mean I wouldn't be with you all the time because I would get bored
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I do think there's a lot of good possibilities there
SARAH: Okay, good. If you could haunt one place, what would you haunt?
KAYLA: I would haunt… how big… how's my square footage like… How big of a place are we talking?
SARAH: Either a building or like a place that has like seven bounds
KAYLA: Oh, I know, I would be a theater ghost
SARAH: Oh, nice
KAYLA: Yes, I would like to be a theater ghost because I feel like they get like… People in theater are very superstitious. So, I would get a lot of respect.
SARAH: You would
KAYLA: People would like talk about me and talk to me. They'd probably give me gifts and offerings and free shows
SARAH: What do you want as an offering?
KAYLA: I'd like just um like a little like shrine
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Or maybe people like on their first… on their opening night in the show they like do a little ritual with the ghost of the theater
SARAH: Okay, that'd be nice.
KAYLA: I'd like that
SARAH: I think if I were a ghost and I could haunt one place, I would want to haunt a… like a train station or an airport but not like the… not like grand central station like I would want to haunt like a big train station, but not a giant train station so it's big enough that there's like a lot of people going in and out but small enough that like there are quiet times when like you might be the only one around or there might only be a couple people around and I could really freak you out.
KAYLA: That's horrifying. See I want to be a nice ghost. You seem like you're being a mean ghost
SARAH: I could also like support people who are like crying on a train
KAYLA: Or if they like lose their luggage, you could find it for them.
SARAH: Yeah, I could help them find it
KAYLA: I like mine better.
SARAH: I think I'm just so Lawful neutral in as a person in my real life.
KAYLA: I don't agree with that. I don't
SARAH: That I'm lawful neutral?
KAYLA: You're not
SARAH: What do you think I am?
KAYLA: You're chaotic something.
SARAH: I'm not though.
KAYLA: You are
SARAH: When it comes down to it, I'm lawful as heck.
KAYLA: I don't know
SARAH: I'm lawful neutral. I'm just so Like lawful neutral and rule abiding in my real life that I think when given the opportunity to cause a little chaos and wreak havoc in a way that's like… Would freak people out but isn't necessarily like harmful.
KAYLA: Do you think you actually would though? Would you allow yourself even as a ghost, do you think you would be able to allow yourself to cause havoc?
SARAH: Minor havoc
KAYLA: Because like to me I don't even know if you would do that
SARAH: I think it would be like fun chaos like not like I'm going to… like this person is holding an urn with their mother's ashes
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: My lord. No, I mean that makes sense though because you're just trying to free their mother's ghost
SARAH: Oh, that's true. But as long as their mother was queer
KAYLA: Oh my God
SARAH: But I mean I just think that if I’m answering to no one and there's there are no…
KAYLA: You are answering to someone, there's the union Sarah
SARAH: Yeah, but the union doesn't have laws, the only laws are just like workplace like…
KAYLA: Yeah, I'm just saying though you do answer to the union you pay your dues
SARAH: Well, yeah, but I… there are definitely ghosts doing much worse stuff than me
KAYLA: I mean probably but I’m just saying you're not totally…
SARAH: Like I would be a pretty tame ghost
KAYLA: What if that's not okay though? What if that's against the rules?
SARAH: Run a coup
KAYLA: Interesting
SARAH: You know me I’m a big um leader of…
KAYLA: Yeah, big into coups
SARAH: Mm-hmm. Wow. This episode got weird.
KAYLA: It really… this one really did happen, huh?
SARAH: I hope you enjoyed it even though the second half had nothing to do with asexuality
KAYLA: Well, you know
SARAH: Halloween which is a race
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: That's the tea. Okay, what's our poll this week?
KAYLA: Uh, well, I think it should be, are witches asexual?
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I also want people to tell us what our alignment is
SARAH: Interesting. Okay. I feel very strongly that I am Lawful neutral.
KAYLA: I don't have a strong opinion about myself, but I don't think that… I think you're chaotic something.
SARAH: Chaotic what?
KAYLA: Or at least that you lean chaotic maybe chaotic neutral
SARAH: No
KAYLA: I don't know
SARAH: When it comes down to it. I am only chaotic in Confined situations where it's not going to cause any harm
KAYLA: I think we're thinking of chaotic in different ways.
SARAH: How are you thinking of chaotic?
KAYLA: I don't know just like chaotic energy you have chaotic energy
SARAH: But I don't… I might have chaotic energy, but I don't mean to cause chaos, people who are Chaotic as their defining factor of their alignment
KAYLA: Okay. Yeah. Okay. No, here's the thing it's because the alignment chart is supposed to be like a moral alignment and I’m thinking of it more as a personality thing
SARAH: Yeah, I think that's your problem
KAYLA: Well, I want people to tell us what our alignment is for personality, I don't need someone to tell me what…I know, but I don't need someone to tell me what my morals are, I want someone to tell us what our personalities are
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: That's all
SARAH: I’m lawful neutral
KAYLA: Not by personality, but sure
SARAH: Okay. All right Cool. What is your beef and juice?
KAYLA: My beef is last night. I woke up at like 4 a.m. And I couldn't fall back to sleep. It was very annoying but I did draft some really good tweets in the middle of the night
SARAH: Classic
KAYLA: They went out today. They were really good. Sarah didn't like them. Um…
SARAH: I liked the tweet anyway
KAYLA: I know you did, I almost called you out for it and then I didn't. um I don't know. That's my main one.
SARAH: Okay. Juice?
KAYLA: Juice
SARAH: Was the joos that you drafted tweets?
KAYLA: That's a good one uh Hmm come back to me.
SARAH: Okay, my beef is very sad news, the golden ratio dogs. We lost my one true boyfriend Riley died uh, he had been dealing with like kidney failure for a very long time and eventually he just kind of stopped eating um, I haven't listened to the podcast episode where they talked about it yet but based off of the tweet, it sounds like they had to put him down um
KAYLA: It's very sad.
SARAH: It’s just like he wasn't eating, like he's not… You know, it's not going to go well. Um, other beef mental breakdowns. I think they're bad um, I know that's a hot take but
KAYLA: Sarah sent me a very wild Snap story in the middle of the night the other night.
SARAH: It was not that late. It was like 10 or 11
KAYLA: Well, I was… I was off my phone by the time they were coming in. Um, and it was a journey
SARAH: Yeah, mental breakdown
KAYLA: Of her having a mental breakdown. It was very… there was a lot of ups and downs
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: It was pretty wild.
SARAH: I tweeted a tweet and then deleted it
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Um, oh also beef last week we were talking about what we listened to um when we're like doing work, I was talking about indie music, but I forgot to mention Irish folk music.
KAYLA: Oh my god
SARAH: Jigs and reels. There's a really good jigs and reels Spotify playlist. Um anyway, okay my joos this week it's kind of juicy and beefy. It's a pretty juicy beef.
KAYLA: Oh my God
SARAH: It is the book catch and kill by Ronan Farrow. So Ronan Farrow Last week I talked about how Ronan Farrow and John Lovett got engaged and how it was announced in Ronan Farrow's book and I read Ronan Farrow's book and it was really good so he is the Pulitzer prize winning journalist who basically revealed the whole Harvey Weinstein Sexual assault and harassment thing and the book is all about that and dude shit is fucked like The book reads like a thriller and like Ronan himself acknowledges that certain things happen that like you would think only happens in movies, but like it actually happened and it has been checked by the New Yorker fact checkers, so like it's real and it makes it all that much more poignant because as I said shit is fucked because there was so much like institutional shit stopping him from reporting on this like rich powerful men can get away with almost anything like everyone was a double agent for Harvey Weinstein, it was crazy they can… listen rich powerful men… I've… they can get away with anything whether it's like on the down low or like an open secret Except like Harvey Weinstein was like an open secret or it's just straight out in the open like uh one president Donald Trump shit is fucked but I’m very grateful to Ronan and everyone who pushed for this and all the women who came forward, a great personal risk and also Sleeper 1973 who Ronan still doesn't know the identity of but she's an icon certified icon
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: Beef is that like this all happened?
KAYLA: That's fair
SARAH: Juice is that the book is really good and although it makes you feel like awful about the state of things. It also makes you feel kind of hopeful I think everyone should read the book
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: So, there's that
KAYLA: I thought of some more things.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Like I have another beef that's um when people but actually or like well, actually I don't appreciate that specifically from men um juice recently my co-workers have started getting into doing the New York times crossword puzzle during lunchtime and it's become a very big thing, very dramatic, none of us can ever go back to work until we finish it which really is hindering productivity but it just needs to happen
SARAH: Especially later in the week because they get harder, right?
KAYLA: Yeah, today's was harder. Well, my one co-worker has the subscription. So, she does a lot of them at home by herself and then brings in the hard ones for us
SARAH: I see.
KAYLA: Um, but yeah, it was very hard today. Another beef is I ordered the wrong phone case on amazon Now I have to order it again.
SARAH: It's so hard
KAYLA: I know those are the only… those are my things
SARAH: Okay, well you can tell us about your beef, your juice, participate in our polls um, tell me about your thoughts about the book catch and kill by Ronan Farrow um on our uh… @soundsfakepod everywhere twitter, all the places. Also, I’m @Costielli just as a reminder.
KAYLA: We know bitch
SARAH: Kayla would you like to advertise yourself?
KAYLA: No
SARAH: Okay, we also have a patreon if you want to support us there, patreon.com/soundsfakepod, last week we did post the video of us playing the game, it was wild. Our $2 patrons are Keith Mcblaine, Roxanne, Aliceisinspace, Anonymous, Mariah Walter, Jonathan, Christopher T Verdieri, Patrick Jackson, Andrew Yang, Ninny, Courtney Jones, Eric B, Amanda Jentonin and Maddie, welcome Maddie
KAYLA: Hello
SARAH: Hello, thank you for supporting us. Our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Astritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Perry Fiero, Dee, Megan Rowell, Quinn Pollock, Emily Collins, Tim, Ryan Lutcieti, BookMarvel and changeling mx.
KAYLA: Boo
SARAH: Oh, okay. Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyuncleKevin @Tessa_m_k, Arcness would like to promote the Trevor project, Benjamin Ybarra who'd like to promote Tabletop games, Anonymous who would like to promote Halloween, spoopy, Sarah McCoy who would like to promote a podcast from a planet weird and my aunt Jeannie who would like to promote Christopher’s Haven. Our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White nathanieljwhitedesigns.com, my mom Julie who would like to promote free mum hugs, Sarah jones who is @eternalloli everywhere and dragonfly who guess what? Dragonfly this week is going to promote catch and kill by Ronan Farrow
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: I'm invested in this book. It was really good
KAYLA: I believe you
SARAH: Okay. Thank you for listening and tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your skeletons
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]