Ep 61: How to Dress Queer
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Dressing queer.
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Hello.
SARAH: I feel like after I say that, we always just kind of look at each other.
KAYLA: I never know what to do, because you have something standard to say and I don't, so –
SARAH: You need to figure out something standard to say that isn't just –
KAYLA: Right. If anyone has any thoughts on what I should say, please let me know.
SARAH: Cool.
KAYLA: Exciting things have been happening this week.
SARAH: That's true.
KAYLA: We saw a very large cow on the internet.
SARAH: Yeah, that's true.
KAYLA: I tweeted it. Should we say?
SARAH: We can say.
KAYLA: We got interviewed for a magazine.
SARAH: Yes, we're going to be famous. And when it is out in the world, we will share with all of you.
KAYLA: Yeah. But it is a magazine. They do a sex and sexuality issue every year on our campus, and they reached out to us and they were like, we want to do an interview, and it was –
SARAH: We're famous.
KAYLA: We truly talked this lovely girl's ear off for an hour because, you know.
SARAH: That's what we do every week.
KAYLA: We have lots of things to say. But it was a very lovely experience. The girl who interviewed us was so willing to learn, and was so interested in things, and was so nice. So that was great.
SARAH: It was lovely.
KAYLA: Yes. Quite. There's also some other exciting stuff that should be coming up.
SARAH: Is there?
KAYLA: Very soon. Yes.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: (laughs) Yes. Anyway.
SARAH: So Kayla –
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: What are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: We're talking about dressing as a queer person.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: So I know you have some ideas that you want to talk about. I also have a few things.
SARAH: Hit me with them.
KAYLA: I think – yeah. I think it would be a good idea to start with mine because they're more historical. So I'm in a queer media class, I've mentioned it several times I think. We've looked at some art exhibits. We've looked at a lot of special collections in libraries and stuff, for queer things. And something that was interesting that we've learned about and I learned about doing some individual research for a project –
SARAH: Research.
KAYLA: Is that a lot of times, way back when like 1800s Oscar Wilde time, queer men would really have to code things very subliminally because it was even worse to actually out yourself. It was truly a very dangerous time. So a lot of times in paintings, they would signify a man's queerness by putting a flower on his lapel, or coding certain colors in a painting. And so there were these very specific ways of dressing or accessorizing yourself to show other queer men that you were gay. Going along with that –
SARAH: Mm-hmm. It's like how ace people have the ring on their middle finger
KAYLA: Yeah, so it's very similar to the ace ring. Something else that I found in the class that was very similar – I'm not sure when this was, I think it may be the '70s or '80s, but I'm not super sure. It was very common in gay clubs and gay bars that men would wear different colored handkerchiefs or bandanas, and the color would signify a sexual act that you were into, so BDSM or fisting, whatever. So the color would signify the act, and then where you placed it on your body would signify whether you were a top or a bottom or something like that.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: And so this was something super common when you went out. It was in an exhibit, I think. There was a range of bandanas that was part of an art exhibit. I forget what it's called, there's a name for it. I'm sure someone knows.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But yeah. When you went out to the clubs, it was super common, and so it was a way for gay men to find people that they wanted to hook up with, with similar interests and whatever. So I think that is something that is super interesting that goes along with what we'll probably be talking about today with queer dressing, because especially when you go back to really when being queer was unacceptable, you had to dress a certain way to express yourself to other people, so other queer people would know.
SARAH: Yeah, but you also had to be passing.
KAYLA: Right, so you had to be passing, and then be very light with what you were doing. And so now when we get into times now where it's a little more acceptable, you find maybe the idea of dressing queer, I think, is a little bit more controversial, I guess.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: So it's just interesting how times have changed.
SARAH: It is interesting.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Yes, quite. Do you have anything else to add before we jump in?
KAYLA: I mean, I think I'll have other things to –
SARAH: Yeah, I'm sure.
KAYLA: I have points that go along with that, but I'm assuming you're going to get to them.
SARAH: Okay. So I have a lot of notes and they're not super organized, but it's fine. As you kind of said, style a lot of times is seen as a marker of queerness. But again, as you said, it's definitely evolved over time. And I guess – Okay. So apparently, I dress gay.
KAYLA: You do.
SARAH: We've mentioned this before.
KAYLA: Yeah. And it's something that gay people have told you.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Which I think makes it a more valid point, when it comes from a gay person.
SARAH: Yeah, I guess. But it's interesting because I dress more stereotypically “gay” than my sister –
KAYLA: And she is gay.
SARAH: Who is actually a gay woman.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And I was thinking about why I dress “gay”. I would say on average, I dress more androgynously than the average woman my age, but not exceedingly so, like not in a crazy way.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: And I was just like, is the reason I dress more gay in part because I dress less “sexual” “feminine”? And then I was thinking, I was like, okay, well what constitutes sexual clothing? How do we decide what is revealing? What's in that category? Because if I wore the exact same thing as you –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That was revealing or whatever, would it be interpreted the same on me as on you?
KAYLA: I mean, I think a lot of it – You can't just look at clothes either.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: I'm thinking of a specific friend you have who dresses very gay, but also in their mannerisms, I think, also comes off very gay.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: And so I think – I don't know. I don't think you can just take the clothes. You know what I mean?
SARAH: That's valid. I'm just thinking what – So if I'm ace, and if you know I'm ace, what decides whether or not what I am wearing is seen as sexy? Is it automatically not sexy because I'm ace, or is it just – Because what constitutes whether a look can be seen as sexualized or not? Because a lot of times, body type comes into it, because if a person who is overweight wears the same thing that a skinny person is wearing, people will be like –
KAYLA: Well, so then I think it becomes – So you have your standard clothes that I think we could blanket call sexy. Things that reveal skin, is what you would say are sexy clothes.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: When they're put on a person, then I think it comes down to what your preferences are for a person.
So if someone liked how you looked and then didn't like how I look and we were wearing the same thing, they could say you look sexy and then look at me and be like, oh, she looks gross in that. Or if a skinny girl and a bigger girl wear a crop top, I've seen a lot of comments about –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Fat girls can't wear crops tops. So even though they're the same amount of revealing, one person might be sexy, the other might be gross.
SARAH: Well, it's – That's true, but I think there's definitely, as you mentioned with that last example, there's a societal standard, and on the outside I might kind of fit into that societal standard, but I don't feel sexy in my day to day life, and I don't necessarily feel comfortable with that. So I guess, what is – Is the attitude and intention of the person wearing whatever they're wearing what makes it sexy, or not?
KAYLA: I definitely think it goes into it because if we're wearing the same thing and you're very uncomfortable, that's going to come off. People are going to be like, she looks uncomfortable.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I don't think anyone looks sexy when they're uncomfortable.
SARAH: That's fair.
KAYLA: So I do think, like you've said – So I showed Sarah an outfit I was buying recently and I was like, what do you think of it? And she was like, well, you need to have the confidence to wear it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which I mean that goes into it, because I wouldn't look as good in it if I looked uncomfortable.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: To pull off the outfit, you have to pull off the outfit.
SARAH: Yeah. Or when I went to a couple of weddings recently where I got a dress that went very low, like very low –
KAYLA: The neckline.
SARAH: The neckline went very low, but I was wearing a bralette under it, so it's not like anything was showing, but when I was at home, I was like, oh, this is fine. But as soon as I was at the wedding, I was very self-conscious about it, and I was constantly pulling it up because I was like, when I see myself wearing this dress, I do not see it as a sexual thing, but as soon as I'm in a situation with other people, I'm afraid that they're going to interpret it that way.
(10:00)
KAYLA: I think it does also really involve whose gaze is on you –
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Because I can walk around the house in a sports bra and really short shorts when it's hot out, and that's totally fine because I'm with my friends, and I know they don't view me like that. If I'm out in public or with someone I like, that's going to be completely different. It's like wearing a bra versus a bathing suit.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: The same amount is covered, but your intentions and who is looking at you and who has permission to look at you –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Completely changes it. So it really isn't how much skin you're showing off. I think also the intention behind it –
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Really has to do with it.
SARAH: Yeah. But with that said, just a lot of what society does is it sexualizes certain things, whether they want it to be or not.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Which, when I was at that wedding is why I kept pulling it up, because I did not want to be sexualized.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so I was trying to avoid that. If you see a kid wearing a super tight outfit –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You're not going to be like, oh, well –
KAYLA: Well, it's like when you see a baby wearing leggings.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: Because babies all wear leggings now.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That's way different than seeing –
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: Some grown ass woman. This was something interesting I was actually talking to my therapist about recently, because we recently went to a Halloween party and I was dressed – My costume was a sexy version of something, I guess. And I know we had a whole episode on that.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: But it was part of the group costume.
SARAH: Yeah. We were all different versions of the same thing.
KAYLA: Yeah. And so me and one of our other housemates were the sexy version. And usually I don't –
SARAH: But weren't you the party version?
KAYLA: I was, but I was wearing a bathing suit for bottoms.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And tights.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So it was interesting because going into it I was like – because I'm very fine with how my body looks, so I was like, whatever. But it wasn't until I was with other people that I was like, other people are judging me right now. Other people think I'm trying to dress sexy, and I'm trying to be the sexy girl at the party. Other people probably think I'm trying to be something. And that made me uncomfortable, because I was thinking about how other people thought about what I was thinking?
SARAH: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
KAYLA: And it made it really weird. I remember I kept going around the house and I was like, you guys are judging me, and you guys were like, truly, I don't give a shit about what you're wearing.
But in my mind I was like, oh my God, all these people are looking at what I'm wearing and they're judging my intentions, when I'm sure no one gave a flying shit.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But as a woman, you're constantly thinking about that kind of stuff.
SARAH: And that was – I've had, not quite to that same extent, but I've had situations where I've been like – Or if I just wear shorts that are short, when I'm at home I'm like, oh, this is fun, and then I leave and sometimes I'm just like, I'm uncomfortable now. Not because I'm uncomfortable with what I'm wearing, but I'm uncomfortable with how I fear that others might look at me, because I'm wearing it.
KAYLA: And you know what's shitty is I will often be worried about, other people think I'm trying to be a certain way, but even if I was trying to be a certain way, that's not a bad way to be.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It's like we were saying in the Halloween episode. If you're dressing sexy because you want to, that's totally fine. But even in my mind because I've been conditioned to think that a girl dressing sexy is too much –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: In my mind, even though I think that's okay, I was still uncomfortable with other people thinking I was that girl, even though I say I'm okay with those girls because it's just ingrained.
SARAH: Yeah. Yeah.
KAYLA: Which sucks because then I'm like, oh, I'm not as woke as I thought I was.
SARAH: But the fact that you realize that those instincts are wrong, says more about you than the instincts.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, it's definitely true, but it's frustrating.
SARAH: Yeah. It is. But kind of jumping back to something I mentioned a little bit earlier, I have a note here that says, I would be pretty uncomfortable if someone ever referred to me as sexy, even if I knew it was meant in good faith, it was meant as a compliment. But that doesn't mean that I'm precluded from wearing things that others might deem as sexy, which just kind of ties into the whole thing. Just because I don't view myself as sexy –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Doesn't mean that others won't sexualize me. And that makes me uncomfortable.
KAYLA: I think this also ties into something that I see as a big topic of this episode, something I think about a lot when it comes to clothes, is people saying, you don't dress ace. I feel like that's a comment I've seen.
SARAH: I feel like people think that because you're ace, you should be dressing super modestly.
KAYLA: Well, people are like, why do you care about your appearance then, if you're ace? Because especially if you're aro-ace.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Then it's like, well, you're not trying to attract anyone. You're not trying to date anyone. You're not trying to impress anyone. So why are you –
SARAH: Ultimate proof that I dress the way I dress for myself. And you know what? Here's the thing. I also dress the way I dress in some ways for society. I keep wearing hats this week, because my face is breaking out and I want to cover it up, but that's something also making the breakout worse because –
KAYLA: Your hats are dirty.
SARAH: And I'm fully aware of that. When I was in LA, I might have mentioned this before, when I was in LA, I wore makeup every single day because LA is the kind of place that makes you feel like you have to look good all the time.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so it's true that I wear things to some extent to impress other people, but I also wear things to feel good about myself, and I do not wear things just to try to attract and other people. I got – That went on a tangent.
KAYLA: I don't think so, I think that's on topic.
SARAH: I just forgot what we were trying to get back to.
KAYLA: Well, I was saying that – I don't know. I guess I kind of changed the subject back to queerness, because I just think it's very interesting, especially going back to what I was saying historically about now people saying, oh, you dress gay, or why do you dress that way when you're ace? And now it's seen as not a great thing, I guess, to say that someone dresses like they're gay.
Because I think it's very like, why are you stereotyping gay people? Not all gay men are super feminine. Not all lesbian women are super butch.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: And so I just think it's interesting tying it back historically because back in ye old day, you had to dress a certain way or do certain things with your appearance to make sure other people knew, in the community, knew you were queer.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But now it's interesting that we've progressed to such a point that it's almost not good.
SARAH: And I think part of the reason for that is because the stereotypes, if you're talking about gay women, their stereotypical dressing is more masc. And if you're talking about gay men, their stereotypical dressing is more femme.
And I think the issue people have with that is because it makes it – I mean, first of all, it's a blanket statement, like the whole group, but also it's because we don't want people to think that there's a man and a woman in the relationship. No. You're just both women. It doesn't matter how you dress. You know what I mean?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: If two women are getting married, like when my two cousins got married – Well, one of them is my cousin. The other one is my cousin's wife. But when they got married, they both wore wedding dresses.
But sometimes in lesbian weddings, one wears a dress, one wears a suit. Sometimes they both wear suits. Sometimes they both wear – I don't know, velour jumpsuits. I don't know.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: But it doesn't make a difference.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Some women dress more femininely than others. Kayla dresses more femininely than I do. That doesn't make her more or less a woman, or that doesn't mean she acts more or less a woman, because what the fuck is acting like a woman anyway?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So I think that's part of the pushback is because they're trying to get away from that idea that gay women are more like men, and gay men are more like women.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's just hard, because I feel like clothes and style are a big part of queer culture.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I was just watching a presentation in class today about queer high fashion, and how queer fashion designers are making certain pieces to queer fashion.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Queer as a verb. To kind of subvert norms and everything. And so it's hard when it's, I feel, definitely a big part of the culture, but also it can easily get misunderstood.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. And if you look – I'm thinking of just famous men who go to events, red carpet, that sort of thing. Oftentimes you find that the men who are most willing to take risks and to wear something other than a black suit and a tie are queer men.
And that's just – John Boyega, who I believe is straight, I don't know for sure, but he wears colored suits sometimes, and people lose their mind because it's like, thank God someone just wore something different.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But then you've got Ezra Miller dressing as Hedwig slash also dressing as a sleeping bag.
KAYLA: But also Adam Rippon's bondage suit was – I think a queer artist made that too.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That was the queerest thing I've ever seen someone wear. Because you're taking the queer idea of BDSM and bondage, which in the grand scheme of queer theory is something that's queer, because it's not normative. So truly, one of the queerest things I've ever seen.
SARAH: Yeah. I have one more note that kind of relates to some of the things we've said. Not to what we just said, but I would like to say it.
KAYLA: Okay.
(20:00)
SARAH: A lot of the issue in terms of deciding what's sexy and what isn't is it has to do with the nuance of allowing all people, including aspec people, to be viewed as sexual beings, but not forcing a sense of sexuality on them. So if they want to be viewed as sexual beings, their behaviors and their “clothing”, not that clothing really denotes sexualism – Sexualism? That's not a word. But in society we give it power, whatever.
Because people who are aspec, if they want to feel sexy, let them do what they want. Just because a person is ace, doesn't mean they cannot wear something that would be deemed “sexy” because we don't all dress wearing – I didn't have a good end for that sentence.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Very modestly. Kayla has just been staring at me.
KAYLA: You're just confusing me.
SARAH: Why am I confusing you?
KAYLA: I don't know. I just forgot what you just said.
SARAH: Aspec people and all people –
KAYLA: Yeah. Well because that's also like, ace people can still have sex.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Just because they're not sexually attracted, doesn't mean they're not trying to look sexy, or they're not trying to have sex.
SARAH: And not all people who aren't aspec, and not all people who do have sex, feel comfortable being “sexy”.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's a very individual thing, and so you have to imagine people complexly, as they say. You have to allow people the space to, if they want to be sexual, go for it, if not, don't force it onto them. But society likes to do that.
Women, again, it's the double standard of simultaneously have to be sexy but also you have to be modest. It's like, what are you doing?
KAYLA: Yeah. And I also think, kind of jumping to a new point, is that the frustrating thing, especially now that trans and nonbinary people are gaining acceptance, a frustrating thing about the slowness of progress, I guess, or where other people don't see is that, people automatically take – If you're dressed more “masculine” or “feminine”, they take that as your gender.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And we know people that are trans – That are trans – They prefer the pronoun – No. So we know people that are trans that are a he or a they, they go by they or he pronouns, but they present in feminine clothes.
SARAH: More feminine. Yeah.
KAYLA: And wear dresses and skirts and wear makeup. And I also know another person that's trans who is a trans woman, and she wears really baggy clothes and sweatpants all the time, which I feel like if you hear about a trans woman, you would just assume that –
SARAH: Very feminine.
KAYLA: Like, oh, if you want to be a woman, then you probably are into really feminine things and you're –
SARAH: I think of women wearing dresses.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: You think of Laverne Cox.
KAYLA: So you think that oh, you're going to go through your transition and then –
SARAH: Buy all new clothes.
KAYLA: Yeah. Like, why do you dress the same? So I just think it's unfortunate that the way people present themselves and the clothes they wear has to be so closely linked to their actual gender and their sexuality, when people should – Clothes are just clothes, dude.
SARAH: And I think that's part of the reason why people sometimes think I'm gay, because I dress “gay”.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I do have long hair, and hair also matters, right?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Because there's the – For women, there's the “gay” haircut and then there's the bisexual haircut, which is a little bit longer.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And that's the joke. But I would, at this point in my life, I would never cut that much hair off of my head.
KAYLA: I don't think it would suit your face.
SARAH: Yeah. But what I realized is that for younger women, what type of – If you have short hair, what type of short haircut you have influences how people perceive you. So if you're an old woman who has short hair, yeah, whatever.
KAYLA: Then you're just an old woman.
SARAH: You're just an old woman.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But then in the 1920s, the fact that women for the first time had short hair, that it was common –
KAYLA: It was liberating.
SARAH: It was a huge liberation thing.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so I'm just thinking of the difference between a pixie cut, like manic pixie dream girl pixie cut. You associate that with femininity. Even though it's short, you associate it with girls wearing dresses and girls who, maybe they're very liberal and liberated, but they're still feminine.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Whereas if you think of hairstyles that you might associate more with things that men wear, like if there's a quiff or a quaff or whatever you want to call it, that's gayer.
KAYLA: Yeah. Because it's more masculine.
SARAH: Because it's more “masculine”. There's no basis for why it is that way. It just somehow is.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, I will say the one gay or queer thing about it is that it is subverting –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: The stereotypes. So it is –
SARAH: But so is the pixie cut.
KAYLA: Right. I guess so. I mean, I'm thinking of women who buzz their hair.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Or it's very short. I think that is more of a statement, I guess, than a pixie cut.
SARAH: Yeah. But when Britney Spears did it, it wasn't gay –
KAYLA: Well, that's because she was insane.
SARAH: It was a statement.
KAYLA: That's true. Well, that was also a statement about liberation, because people kept touching her hair. Yeah, I guess. I don't know.
SARAH: Yeah. It's weird. But then I was thinking about men and hair because that's a whole other shenanigans because men are “supposed” to have short hair.
KAYLA: Yeah, but long hair is in now.
SARAH: Long hair is in now, but here is the thing. Again, depending on the hair and what you do with it, will impact how people view you.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: To a certain extent, however you present yourself is going to – Whatever, that's stupid and dumb. So if hair is long, there's a couple different things that can happen. Either it's unkempt where either they're lacking self-care or they're just – I'm just thinking of – Yeah. No. Lacking self-care is the one that I'm thinking of.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like hipster-y man bun sort of deal.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Or it's like dreadlocks, which is seen as more gangster, associated with Black culture.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So it has a little bit more of a negative connotation, at least in white America.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so there are certain types of long hair for men that are acceptable, and certain ones that aren't.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Why? It's dumb. I mean, I know why.
KAYLA: I also think it's interesting, going along with hair, I feel like the more men take care of their hair, the more metrosexual they look.
SARAH: Yeah, a little bit more like feminine hair. And it's like, so it's feminine now to take care of your body and your hair?
KAYLA: Yeah. So guys with really nice – Because on the one hand, there's guys with really long hair that it's just unkempt and you're like, oh, I don't think you shower or clean your hair very much.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That seems very masculine to me because –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, oh, I'm a man and I don't care what I look, like because I'm a man.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But yeah. The more you get into a man washing his face, taking care of his body, and making his hair shiny and healthy, then you get into people being like, oh, he's a metrosexual. He's super feminine because he cares about his hygiene and his looks.
SARAH: Because that's feminine, apparently.
KAYLA: But also, men also have a tremendous burden to look a certain way. A lot of it these days is a burden to look very muscular. And so now you have men being unhealthy with the amount they're in the gym. That's a growing problem. It's another form of a body disorder.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Men get addicted working out and supplements and having their muscles look huge. So it's this weird thing where it's like men aren't supposed to care what they look like, but also society is like, well, but you also need to look this way.
SARAH: They're supposed to care about certain things.
KAYLA: Right. So it's like you have to care without looking like you care.
SARAH: But if they have a beard or a mustache or facial hair of some sort, taking care of that is masculine.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Because it's –
KAYLA: Because it's a guy thing.
SARAH: It's a masculine thing.
KAYLA: Because women don't have –
SARAH: Not that there – Well, some women do have facial hair.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: For various reasons.
KAYLA: But your traditional woman –
SARAH: Yeah, if you're talking –
KAYLA: Stereotypically.
SARAH: Stereotypically.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so it's just –
KAYLA: Yeah. Mustaches and guys with big beard culture. That's a whole culture.
SARAH: Remember when glitter beard became a thing?
KAYLA: That was magical.
SARAH: I loved it.
KAYLA: Do you remember when mustaches in 2013 were cool?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: There was stickers of mustaches everywhere and stuff.
SARAH: Oh yeah. I was really into that.
KAYLA: Yeah, unfortunately.
SARAH: Do you remember, along with glitter beard, flower beard was a thing?
KAYLA: I love a flower beard.
SARAH: I mean, that was great because the thing I liked about that was that it was just a stupid internet trend, but also, it was men subverting the idea that a beard automatically conveys masculinity.
KAYLA: Yeah. It was taking this very masculine symbol and being like, no, she's art.
SARAH: I'm going to take this “feminine” thing, whether that be glitter or flowers, and I'm going to decorate it. Decoration.
KAYLA: I also like when people braid their beards. I think that's fun.
SARAH: That's funny. Yeah. And then men who wear makeup, men – I've seen a lot more men wearing nail polish these days.
(30:00)
KAYLA: I have too.
SARAH: It's great.
KAYLA: I'm a big fan. But yeah. Men who go get manicures or pedicures, people are like -
SARAH: It’s like you’re caring for –
KAYLA: A lot of times with pedicures, it's a health thing for your feet.
SARAH: It really is.
KAYLA: Because feet get nasty.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And so if you care about your foot health, you would probably get a pedicure more often anyway.
SARAH: Yeah. You don't have to paint your nails a certain color. You can just –
KAYLA: It's good for your feet.
SARAH: Literally just go.
KAYLA: They're tired.
SARAH: It's true. And then men who – There's more of them now, because you have Manny MUA and you have James Charles –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And those folks who are BeauTubers, who are makeup YouTubers.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so it's a little bit more normalized now, but I imagine if you go into a more conservative place in the country –
KAYLA: Yeah. No.
SARAH: It would be absolutely unbelievable.
KAYLA: There's this kid I always see on Instagram and he's a young-looking boy, and he's just doing makeup tutorials and I'm like, truly, you're 10. How are you running a business right now?"
SARAH: That's actually – I've seen that. And the really interesting thing I've seen about that is the discourse about whether it's okay for him to be doing it that young. And the argument is, if a girl were 10 years old and wearing that much makeup, it would be seen as a sexualizing thing.
KAYLA: But I've also seen really young girls doing tutorials online.
SARAH: I know, but young girls are frowned upon because it's –
KAYLA: That is true. I have –
SARAH: It's seen as sexualizing –
KAYLA: I have read the comments of some really young girls I see on Instagram doing their makeup, and people are like, oh my God, she's so young. I would never let my daughter do that.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: I remember one time when I was quite young, I wanted to wear green eyeshadow to church one day, because I would only wear makeup for dance recitals and I thought I looked so pretty because –
SARAH: Yeah, it was a thing that we got to wear makeup for dance recitals.
KAYLA: But one day I had my little Avon thing of eyeshadow, because my aunt sells Avon, and I put it on –
SARAH: My aunt sold Mary Kay.
KAYLA: Well, now they have to fight.
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: But I snuck it into the bathroom because I knew my parents wouldn't want me to wear it, because whatever, and I put on green eyeshadow and I came out of the bathroom and my parents were like, no, you can't wear that and –
SARAH: You said green eyeshadow the first time and I hear green mascara and I was like, wow, where did you get green mascara?
KAYLA: Truly I was going for it. No. And then my parents were super mad at me, and then – At the time I was like, whatever, I'm 10. But thinking back, I'm like, why do you have to sexualize –
SARAH: Yeah. It's a green eyelid.
KAYLA: It's like your kid having a good time with their face. I mean, it is.
SARAH: (laughing) Such a weird way to phrase it.
KAYLA: It's just a kid experimenting and being creative.
SARAH: Yeah. But there's just this connotation that it's a sexualizing thing to wear makeup, or a lot of kids are –
KAYLA: Because we were going to church.
SARAH: To church. To God's house.
KAYLA: God did not want me to wear green eyeshadow that day.
SARAH: No, he didn't. The other thing I wanted to talk about was men and skirts because here's the thing. Skirts are seen as feminine, right?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Dresses, skirts, feminine. But kilts –
KAYLA: Well, people make fun of kilts, though.
SARAH: Here's the thing. So kilts, people make fun of them and a lot of people may balk at wearing them, but we have a certain amount of respect for them. And I was like, why? We'll make fun of people wearing kilts, but we won't disown them. It's not a huge thing.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so I was like, okay, why is that? Because it's a cultural object. And then I was thinking, okay, it's a cultural object, but there are some cultures that have similar cultural objects that are not seen as okay things. And then I was like, it's a white culture.
KAYLA: Yeah. What other things are you thinking of?
SARAH: I'm just thinking of – I know I've seen some stuff of Polynesian cultures where they have – It's kind of like a grass skirt-ish situation, but then men also wear them.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
SARAH: But it's much more okay. In both cases, it is a cultural object, but it's more okay, even if it is mocked a little bit –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: The idea of the kilt, because it's a white cultural object.
KAYLA: You also look at Irish culture and it's very Catholic and very religious.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So I feel like people would assume, oh well, they're not doing anything gay, because look how Catholic and conservative they are.
SARAH: Yeah. That's true. We through my stuff faster than I thought we would.
KAYLA: I'm very sorry.
SARAH: Do you have any other things to say about – You kept saying queer dressing and I was like, ranch dressing?
KAYLA: Yeah. It's like just ranch dressing, but for when you're so gay.
SARAH: Okay. Basically, clothing is such a – Why is it such a thing? Listen, men's clothes, the pockets, they're so much bigger.
KAYLA: Oh my God, yeah. I just think to kind of sum up everything we've talked about, it's just another form of expression in the form of just culture that people really use to put people in boxes.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: And that people use to exaggerate the binary, whether it is binary of sexuality or binary gender.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: People – There are very clear lines between men's clothes and women's clothes. And increasingly, there's a lot of androgynous clothes. That's coming into style. But it is so binary, and letting your little boy wear a princess dress is this whole big deal.
SARAH: It's the worst thing you could possibly do to your child.
KAYLA: Right. And even when you let them, it's this big deal of, oh my God, you're letting your son wear a dress, you're so brave.
SARAH: What a great parent you are.
KAYLA: It's just – And I completely understand why these things are the way they are.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It's not like I'm like, how could society do this?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I get it. We all get it. It's just when you – It's just unfortunate when you see people trying to break that, and it's hard, because if you really think about it, it's just clothes, it's just what you're wearing. It's just another form of self-expression.
SARAH: It's like how heels were invented for men, so that their calves could look nice.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: In their paintings.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I love that fact.
KAYLA: Well, it's also how women shaving their legs, razor companies invented that to sell razors –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: To the other half of the world that wasn't wearing – Or wasn't – (laughs)
SARAH: Wearing razors.
KAYLA: Or wasn't using them because they were like, oh, only men are using razors right now, but –
SARAH: We want to sell more.
KAYLA: We want to sell more, so what do we do? And then they were like –
SARAH: Women must be hairless rats.
KAYLA: Yeah. And then with diamonds, diamonds used to be in super abundance, and then diamond companies were like, fuck, we need to sell these more. And so they created this ingenious advertising where they were like, we have to connect diamonds with engagement. Engagement rings used to be nothing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It would just be like, here is this plastic pap.–
SARAH: Pierce of aluminum. Pierce of aluminum?
KAYLA: Ah, yes. So a lot of these things, it's just capitalism.
SARAH: Oh, capitalism does it all.
KAYLA: Tea. So yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. We live in a wild, wild world. It's all dumb. Let people wear what they want. I'm way more comfortable just walking into the men's sections of stores now.
KAYLA: Sarah loves a good men's section.
SARAH: Listen –
KAYLA: Would you like to – You know the thing you tell me every at least month?
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: I feel like that's very fitting for this episode.
SARAH: I didn't even think about it.
KAYLA: And I think you should just – I feel like you've probably told the world before, but –
SARAH: I've told them so many times.
KAYLA: This is the most fitting episode for you to –
SARAH: Just a quick reminder that if I were a man, I would be so stylish. And again –
KAYLA: What's interesting about that is you say, if I was a man, I'd be more stylish.
SARAH: I'd be so stylish.
KAYLA: But there's truly nothing stopping you from dressing how you would as a man.
SARAH: That's what I was about to say. That's what I was about to say.
KAYLA: Really, you could be stylish right now.
SARAH: But that's the thing. That's what I was about to say is that if I were a man, if I identified as a man, I would feel that my fashion options were more limited. And so the more “masculine” clothing that I like now would kind of be my only options, whereas now as a woman, I feel like I have a lot more options. So I still do dress that way some days, but some days I also don't, because there are other ways I like to dress too, because my fashion sense is sometimes all over the place. Also, I think I mentioned this before, it's also body type. Just as a woman, I'm not a very curvy person in general.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I am more curvy than I would be if I had been –
KAYLA: What? I'm confused about where this is going.
SARAH: Genetics.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Just in general –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: The way women who are assigned woman at birth –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Are built is different than the way men are built.
KAYLA: Yeah, because you have to birth a baby.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Well, you don't have to but you're supposed to.
SARAH: Right. And so that's part of the problem now is that men's clothing or clothing that is deemed as being men's, doesn't always fit me right.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because of – Also, I'm short.
KAYLA: That is the one thing I'll say about clothes being separated by gender, is for the body type, some things do have to be tailored a certain way.
SARAH: And that is true, but also there's so much variety within the genders –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: In terms of body. Especially women.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true.
SARAH: There's so many different body shapes.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That it's like – Because my body shape – We're roughly the same size. You're thinner than I am, but we're the same height.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But that's the – We're the same height, but our bodies are not shaped like each other.
(40:00)
KAYLA: Yeah, our body types are really different. Yeah.
SARAH: And we're both within the, “This is considered a healthy weight."
KAYLA: I don't think I'm a healthy weight, but –
SARAH: Kayla might be too skinny.
KAYLA: I probably am underweight at this point, but –
SARAH: Eat more food.
KAYLA: I'm trying.
SARAH: But we're within what society would consider to be okay, right?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But our bodies are shaped very differently. I have very broad shoulders and I don't have hips.
KAYLA: We measured our butts that one time.
SARAH: We did.
KAYLA: Do you remember back in that episode? I don't think we ever announced the results of that in the following episode.
SARAH: We did measure our butts. Kayla's butt is bigger than mine.
KAYLA: Yeah. And we did it – Also, our singular male roommate was in the living room while we were doing this, and he truly was –
SARAH: He was like, what is going on?
KAYLA: So uncomfortable and so angry that we were doing this in his presence. He truly was so angry.
SARAH: I was just curious.
KAYLA: Also, it doesn't have to be sexual that we're measuring our butts.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: And he was getting all upset about it, and I was like, this is just two platonic ladies trying to see –
SARAH: Just measuring our butts.
KAYLA: Whose butt is bigger.
SARAH: And then he made me feel uncomfortable and I was like, why did you do this?
KAYLA: Why? What did he do?
SARAH: Well, no. It was just because he was saying stuff.
KAYLA: Oh, because he was uncomfortable. I was like, this doesn't have to be a thing. It's just a body part.
SARAH: I know. Okay, so the TV show Marvelous Mrs. Maisel –
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Her whole – Not her whole thing, but one of her things is that she measures all of her body parts every day, to make sure it's the same size, because it's in the '50s.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And I forgot. Oh, but we weren't doing it to meet a standard, we just wanted to know whose butt was bigger.
KAYLA: We were just curious. Yeah. I was watching –
SARAH: It's Kayla's.
KAYLA: It's mine. We were watching a video – I was watching a video yesterday that was called Why it Sucks to be a Model. I was down the YouTube hole. But it was this girl talking about how she was 16, and she had gotten to a modeling agency, and she was very small and they measured her and they were like, you need to drop a ton of weight.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: And so she basically starved herself. And she was 5'9 and then she was 102 pounds.
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: Which for someone 5'9 that is not healthy.
SARAH: That is not healthy.
KAYLA: And she was saying she then went to Milan and they were like, you're too big here, and so she had to lose even more weight.
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: And so she'd starve herself.
SARAH: I don't think my body would be capable of doing that.
KAYLA: She said she was tired all the time, and angry, and obviously it was not healthy.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: She was severely underweight.
SARAH: Oh, I just mean I don't think my body could physically get – could physically do that.
KAYLA: Shrink? She said she –
SARAH: Just because of the way I'm built. I have big thighs. I don't know, man.
KAYLA: You have broad shoulders too.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You do not have a model's body. I'm sorry.
SARAH: I don't. I have a gymnast's body.
KAYLA: You do. You do have a gymnast's body.
SARAH: I have the body of a retired gymnast.
KAYLA: You really do.
SARAH: That's pretty accurate.
KAYLA: And I have a body.
SARAH: We all have bodies.
KAYLA: Yes, quite.
SARAH: And we all have consciousnesses.
KAYLA: Okay. Interesting.
SARAH: What's our poll this week?
KAYLA: Do you have a body? (laughs)
SARAH: I have a question.
KAYLA: What's your question?
SARAH: It's something like, do you ever feel sexy slash –
KAYLA: (sings) Do you ever feel –
SARAH: Get out of my house. Do you ever feel sexy, or do you ever have an urge to feel sexy? Because I think because so many of our listeners are aspec, I'm just kind of curious as to whether – So how about this?
KAYLA: I think it should be like, do you ever feel sexy/aspire to be sexy?
SARAH: And then we'll split it between aspec and non-aspec.
KAYLA: Yes, I'm ace. No, I'm ace.
SARAH: I would say aspec just in general.
KAYLA: Yes, I'm aspec. No, I'm aspec. Yes –
SARAH: I'm not aspec.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: No, I'm not aspec.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I'm curious.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Yes. My answer would be no, and I'm aspec.
KAYLA: I think my answer would be yes and I'm aspec.
SARAH: Nice. Good for us. Go team.
KAYLA: Diverse ladies.
SARAH: Amazing. What's your beef of the week? Can I tell you my beef of the week?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: My beef of the week is that I went the first 21 years of my life –
KAYLA: I don't know where this is going. Truly.
SARAH: You know exactly where this is going.
KAYLA: I'm sure I do, but I don't.
SARAH: I spent the first 21 years of my life not knowing that apparently, I'm funny?
KAYLA: Oh my God. I cannot believe we're getting into this conversation. Poll, is Sarah funny?
SARAH: Apparently, I'm funny.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: No one told me.
KAYLA: So apparently, people laughing at Sarah's jokes was not enough for her to tell for 21 years.
SARAH: No, because I'm a woman.
KAYLA: You are.
SARAH: No, legit. I blame the patriarchy for this.
KAYLA: I blame everything on the patriarchy.
SARAH: It's like, because I'm a woman, no one had really told me I was funny, and so then –
KAYLA: Well, if they did, they probably said you were funny for a girl.
SARAH: Yeah. And then when people laughed at things I said or did, I would see it as, oh, in that moment I was funny. I did a funny thing. But it turns out if you do enough funny things, it makes you a funny person.
KAYLA: If it makes you feel better, Sarah, I don't think you're funny.
SARAH: Thank you. Actually, that's not what you told me the other day.
KAYLA: I was just trying to make you feel better.
SARAH: Okay. But then it's also weird being like, I'm going to claim this identity that I'm funny.
KAYLA: It is.
SARAH: It makes me feel kind of uncomfortable.
KAYLA: Well, because then you're just boasting about yourself.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But also, there was a reason – The spec script I'm writing this semester is for The Good Place, which is a comedy, and I was very nervous to do that, because I didn't think I was funny.
KAYLA: Yeah, you did tell me that.
SARAH: Why didn't you tell me then, Kayla?
KAYLA: I don't know. I don't just go around complementing you.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: We don't do that in this house.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: We don't say nice things to each other.
SARAH: I'm just saying if I –
KAYLA: (gasps) You know what we should do? Every week, we should say something nice about the other person.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: See, this is the problem, Sarah. You probably would have found out that you were funny sooner, if we said nice things about each other.
SARAH: I would have found out I was funny sooner if I were a man.
KAYLA: Well, you also would have found out sooner if we said nice things to each other.
SARAH: What's your beef of the week?
KAYLA: My beef of the week is that I have to be an adult soon. Here's the tea. I have three very close friends here at school. Sarah is unfortunately one of them. Of these four people, I am one of the four, I am the only one who has to be an adult. I have to be an adult first, because here is the tea. One of our friends is going into grad school right away. The other of our friends is taking a gap year and going to med school. Sarah is graduating in August.
SARAH: In August, not December.
KAYLA: Right, so –
SARAH: I thought it was going to have to be Decemberm but then it was August.
KAYLA: She's only graduating a summer late.
SARAH: I hate to email the auditor again and I was like, “Linda, I'm so sorry. Linda, please –“
KAYLA: Linda, listen.
SARAH: "Please change my graduation date again and I apologize so much." And she goes, "No, it's not a problem. It's okay."
KAYLA: I emailed my advisor recently to check on a requirement, and she was like, Kayla, you emailed me about this five months ago. And she said it in kind of a sassy way.
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: She was like, please refer back to the other email.
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: And I looked and I was like, oh, I did ask the same exact question.
SARAH: Oh my God. How did she remember that?
KAYLA: I'm sure she looked at my file or something. But I was like, oh, she's so right, but what a sassy bitch. Anyway, I am the only one of my friends – because I also have another close friend who is taking a gap year, and then going to law school.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, because I am now – Decorating? Because I'm now graduating in August instead of December, I'll have to be a real adult sooner.
KAYLA: Yeah, but not as soon as I do. I am the only one of our friends who is actively job searching.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because all of our other friends are – Our one friend that's taking a gap year and then going to med school, he needs a job, but he is fine.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So I'm the only one that's having to currently prepare to be an adult, which makes me so unmotivated to do that, because no one around me is doing it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So I'm like, why would I do this? Because no one else is.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But I need to. And if you're listening, will you hire me?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: One time, someone I'm auditioning for – Someone I have done a couple interviews for did listen to this podcast, and I think they listened to an episode where I pleaded for a job. So maybe that will work. We'll see. We'll see what happens there.
SARAH: Amazing. All right, you can find that poll or tell us about your beef of the week on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. I’m so upset, I never got to change it to Sounds Donzerly But Okay. I remembered, but some lovely, lovely, lovely human on Tumblr –
KAYLA: No, it wasn’t that. Okay recently, yes, some very nice person on Tumblr made some fanart, and it got a lot of notes, and so a lot of people started listening –
SARAH: We’ve been getting more listens –
KAYLA: Which was wild. Also, you know that time AVEN retweeted us?
SARAH: Yeah, that was it.
KAYLA: And so the day Sarah wanted to turn our name on Twitter into Sounds Donzerly But Okay, we were getting a lot of new follows from people from AVEN, and I was like, Sarah, you can’t change that today because then people will be confused and they won’t want to listen to us, and we need those listens. So I wouldn’t let her change it, and she’s sad.
SARAH: But it still sounds donzerly.
KAYLA: But if it makes you feel better, everyone in our life has been making fun of me about donzerly, and one of you absolutely roasted me on Twitter about it –
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: I think it was someone named Anna on Twitter, but they were like, you should take voice lessons to figure out why your voice is like that. By the way, none of you told me why my voice is like this, what are you doing? Please get on that, why are none of you invested in this? But they were like, you should do that and maybe it would also help you with things like donzerly, and they were being nice, but also completely roasted me, and I felt thoroughly burnt.
SARAH: We also have a Tumblr, soundsfakepod.tumblr.com, or you can email us soundsfakepod@gmail.com. We also have a Patreon –
(50:00)
KAYLA: And you know what?
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: It was just recently Giving Tuesday.
SARAH: It was.
KAYLA: I’ll just put that out there, if you’re feeling giving.
SARAH: Today is –
KAYLA: A Thursday.
SARAH: Well, when they listen to this, if they listen to it on day one –
KAYLA: Sacrifice Sunday, sacrifice some of your money to us.
SARAH: Sounds Fake Sunday, But Okay.
KAYLA: (gasps) Wait, we always release episodes on a Sunday (hyperventilating) How am I someone that wants to go into marketing and I’ve never thought about that in my life? Don’t hire me, I don’t deserve it.
SARAH: Don’t say that, it’s Sounds Fake Sunday.
KAYLA: Why have we never done that before?
SARAH: Because we’re dumbasses. Also, on Patreon, if they give us enough money, if they give us at least $5, they get it on Saturday and that works too.
KAYLA: You get it on Saturday, and it’s a Sounds Fake Saturday. How have we never – Why didn’t any of you tell us? You’ve been letting us do this for a year and a half, and no one told us?
SARAH: You didn’t even tell Kayla why her voice sounds weird.
KAYLA: Truly, you guys are kind of getting on my nerves.
SARAH: (laughs) Anyway, our $2 patrons are Sara Jones and Keith McBlaine, our $5 patrons, who get Sounds Fake Saturday, are Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney and Perry Fiero who by the way, after I butchered Perry’s name two weeks in a row –
KAYLA: I think you should try to say it different every week.
SARAH: He messaged me and he was like –
KAYLA: This is our friend.
SARAH: Yeah, we know him in real life. And he was like, I didn’t think my name was hard, but maybe it is.
KAYLA: And then he asked you for a recording, didn’t he? Of you saying his name wrong?
SARAH: I don’t remember that.
KAYLA: Oh, I thought I read that.
SARAH: Hold on, let me – I sent him a good message, I’d like to
KAYLA: (sighs)
SARAH: Um –
KAYLA: Perry also thanked me because last week we sang a lot of Hamilton and he was like, I wanted to listen to Hamilton today, but now I don’t have to –
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: Because I listened to your podcast, and I was like, you are so welcome.
SARAH: Because we’re the same as Lin-Manuel Miranda. I told him, I said – He said asked if I needed a sound recording of him saying his name, and I told him his name was a real tongue twister, and he was like, I never thought so but maybe it’s time to reevaluate. And I was like, or you could simply change your name and I gave him two really good options.
KAYLA: What were they?
SARAH: Piero Fiero, and Perry Ferry.
KAYLA: Which I think are great names.
SARAH: What about Piero Ferry?
KAYLA: I think you should say it differently every time.
SARAH: Okay. I’ll say all of our patrons’ names differently every time.
KAYLA: (gasps) Yes. That’s a perk, that’ll be a new perk. Give us enough money and we’ll –
SARAH: I’ll mispronounce your name.
KAYLA: Sarah will butcher your name.
SARAH: Hey, I’m good at pronouncing names.
KAYLA: You are. But if you pay you extra, you’ll be bad at it.
SARAH: Oh yeah.
KAYLA: Which is fancy.
SARAH: Some sneak peeks? Se-rah Ho-nays.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: Key-ay-t-h McBlarney –
KAYLA: This reminds me of the Vine where he pronounces everything –
SARAH: Fre sha voca do
KAYLA: You know the Vine where someone goes through a grocery store, and they pronounce everything –
SARAH: Yeah. But also fre sha voca do.
KAYLA: Also fre sha voca do.
SARAH: Jen-niffer, Jen-niniffer Smart. That one’s a little harder to fuck up.
KAYLA: Smert.
SARAH: Smert. Oh Asritha, I can’t even say her first name wrong, because everyone –
KAYLA: You could say it with an accent.
SARAH: Everyone always says it wrong so I can’t bring – Everyone says Ah-sritha.
KAYLA: But you could say it the way she hates, which is the way her mom says it.
SARAH: How does her mom.
KAYLA: As-ri-tha.
SARAH: That’s kind of what I just said.
KAYLA: Yeah, but that’s the way you’re “supposed” to say it, but she hates it because that’s what her mom says.
SARAH: Asritha, I will not mispronounce your name, because people already do that.
KAYLA: Mispronounce her last name, at least.
SARAH: Minnesota.
KAYLA: (laughs) Oh, tea.
SARAH: Owst-hin (pause) Le.
KAYLA: (laughs)
SARAH: Duh-roov, um –
KAYLA: Patrons are going to take a long time, now.
SARAH: Fi-nuh-nayee.
KAYLA: Oh boy.
SARAH: And then Perry Ferry. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take care of your 6 foot giant cow.
SARAH: Good care, please.
KAYLA: Mmm-hmm.