Ep 290: Hating Your Partner
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SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello, welcome to Sounds Fake but Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl. I'm Sarah, that's me. I almost forgot. Woo! Keep going!
KAYLA: Are you sure?
SARAH: Keep going! Keep going!
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl. That's me, Kayla. I'm sure of that.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, straight couples hate each other?
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
[Intro Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the podcast.
KAYLA: Wasn't that a perfect intro?
SARAH: A perfect intro.
KAYLA: It has only been like, what, 10 years or something?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Wait, is our book a year old yet?
SARAH: Almost.
KAYLA: When did it come out? Was it the 23rd?
SARAH: 20-something.
KAYLA: Okay. Well, almost.
SARAH: My sister has been married for a year.
KAYLA: I saw that and I was like, “I was there.”
SARAH: I was also there.
KAYLA: Yeah. Sweet
SARAH: And I was even in the photo that she posted for her anniversary and then she didn't tag me in the photo that she posted for her anniversary and I was like, why would you not tag me, your sister, in this Instagram photo about your anniversary with your wife where I'm just like on the side of the picture.
KAYLA: It feels hateful and pointed.
SARAH: Yeah, it was a hate crime, but I'll get over it.
KAYLA: Yeah, for sure.
SARAH: How are you?
KAYLA: I'm so good. I'm being very brave about what I'm not doing right now and I’m instead recording. I'll discuss this in the juice section, but just know…
SARAH: Stay tuned.
KAYLA: Y'all are lucky to have me.
SARAH: So true. I…
KAYLA: You're back in your home?
SARAH: I am in my home. It's not done done, but it's livable.
KAYLA: Good.
SARAH: It's really all we can ask for.
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: Do we have any housekeeping other than my literal fact that my house I'm now keeping…
KAYLA: It needs to be kept, yeah.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Okay. Then shall we begin?
KAYLA: I guess. Let's get into it.
SARAH: [In an NPR voice] Kayla, what are we talking about…
KAYLA: This week…
SARAH: No, I'm… Hold on. Let me finish my NPR points.
KAYLA: Okay. Oh, sorry. Okay.
SARAH: Kayla, what are we talking about this week? I want you to know that I don't even really listen to NPR at all. And so that was really more… no shade to NPR. They're great.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But that was really more of an imitation of that girl on TikTok who does the NPR intros and outros of songs in the future, where she describes current songs, like we described songs from the 1600s in her NPR voice. So that was me actually imitating that person.
KAYLA: An imitation, correct. This is very loosely related to what you just said, but we recently watched all of the new Star Trek movies in our home. I had seen them and I loved them, but Dean had not, which was terrible for our relationship. Anyway, we were watching them and I think it's in the third movie they play… what's the song? It's the song they play in the first movie too. It's like, can't stand it, I want to find it. Sabotage. Maybe that's what it's called. That's the word they say.
SARAH: Sure.
KAYLA: Anyway, they play that. It's a very big moment in the third movie and Spock is like, are they playing classical music? And I was like, “Ha ha ha,” because to us it's rock music, but to you it's the future and it's classical music. Tee hee hee.
SARAH: Tee hee hee. Tee hee hee.
KAYLA: Anyway, what were we talking… oh, NPR, our NPR intro.
SARAH: What are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: [In NPR voice] This week we are discussing- anyway, this week we're discussing… I was trying to think of something vaguely Valentine's Day themed, because this is going to come out the week before, or the Sunday before Valentine's Day.
SARAH: As I learned, Valentine's Day, Ash Wednesday
KAYLA: Ash Wednesday
SARAH: My Valentine is Jesus.
KAYLA: And I learned that February 13th, the day before Valentine's Day, is Mistress Day, because apparently hospitality workers on the inside know that that's the day people take their mistresses out. So, keep an eye out if you're worried about that day.
SARAH: I mean, that's really just putting the gal in Galentine's Day, you know?
KAYLA: Sure, yeah.
SARAH: Just get a little side gal.
KAYLA: Sure. Anyway, so I was trying to think of things for Valentine's Day, and it reminded me of a trend I've seen recently on TikTok, like starting at the beginning of February, I feel like, where girls have been like, “oh, my boyfriend hasn't asked me to be his Valentine's Day yet,” like one boyfriend for sale, and then like…
SARAH: My boyfriend hasn't asked me to be his Valentine's Day yet?
KAYLA: Is that what I said?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Well, it's true, they hadn't asked them to be their Valentine… for Valentine's Day yet, and so then they were like, one boyfriend for sale, $15, comes with glasses and a tech job or whatever, you know, his specs for his Facebook Marketplace thing. And then I saw who I presume was a queer person that was like, oh, 2024 just started, and the straight women are already hating their boyfriends and trying to sell them, like what are the straights doing?
SARAH: You're trying to traffic them.
KAYLA: Really. Yeah. But it just made me think about just the general trend, especially among straight, presumably allo couples, of just like, they joke about hating each other all the time.
SARAH: It's always the straights.
KAYLA: It's always the straights. And then I found a Reddit thread about it that we can get into, because people are kind of theorizing about why that happens, but I can't say that I never joke about hating Dean. I definitely have tried to give him away several times when he does something really annoying.
SARAH: I've tried to give you away.
KAYLA: Right. I think there's an amount that's a playful, just like Dean will be putting his nasty feet on me and I'll turn to my roommates and be like, who want a boyfriend? I have one I'm giving away.
SARAH: Well and he's also in on it because you're doing it in front of him.
KAYLA: Right. Yes.
SARAH: But I feel like these situations are just going on the internet being like, my boyfriend has not yet asked me to be his Valentine, and instead of saying…
KAYLA: My fucking…
SARAH: And instead of saying, “Hey, I really wish that you would ask me to be your Valentine, I think it's cute and I would like it.” They try and sell you and traffic you on the internet.
KAYLA: Fair. No, I think there's definitely an amount of it that's just like a funny joke of just like… I mean, I do that about my cats all the time when the cats are being bad. I will literally ask anyone like, are you interested in a free cat? I fucking hate this cat right now. But there is something different about just like, I feel like the general jokes that go around just like in culture of like, oh, the old ball and chain or like, oh, got to stay at home with the wife tonight or like, oh, she's nagging me or whatever, you know, like that whole kind of just like culture around like being or even like the, oh, it's the last night of freedom, like the bachelor kind of thing. I feel like it all is kind of like lumped into the same category of just like your partner being this like awful burden.
SARAH: Yeah. Well, and I feel like it's… traditionally it's aimed at the woman and the hetero relationship, right? Like the… like the ball and chain, the, you know, like, oh, she's holding me down. I can't fuck other women because I got a… I can't go out with the boys tonight. I got a fucking wife who stays home and takes care of the kids all fucking day long. Also, she has six jobs.
KAYLA: Yeah, sure.
SARAH: And she cleans the entire house every day.
KAYLA: Every day.
SARAH: And I hate her. You have that. But I also feel like the more like modern thing of like trafficking your boyfriend on the internet.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: And like being like, “oh, ha ha, boyfriend for sale,” like, it's seen as this like feminist reclamation.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Of like, oh, we can hate our partners too.
KAYLA: No, yeah for sure.
SARAH: And I know like that's not necessarily the intention, but there is kind of like that undercurrent of like, we're solving the patriarchy by hating our husbands as much as they hate us.
KAYLA: They hate us. No, I definitely think like, it's definitely a different vibe. I think a lot of times on the men's part, it's like a… just like, yeah, the nagging thing that like the woman being in the role of the mother or whatever, just like them holding you back from like having fun with the boys or whatever. But I feel like for women towards men, it's often that the man is just like stupid. I feel like, like it's always just kind of like making fun of the man for being an idiot or just being like, oh, yeah, I have to like do all this shit for him. Like he doesn't know what's going on, which like I get… like, I get that men are like stupid. But it's also like, you know
SARAH: If you're like going onto the internet and talking to people and complaining to people about how dumb your partner is, like
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: If you were that partner and you found out that your partner was talking shit about you on the internet saying you were dumb, you probably wouldn't like feel great.
KAYLA: Yeah, well, or just like the… I feel like I always see the trend of like women complaining about their boyfriends that like game a lot or just like, oh, he's like, like, you know, that whole thing, which like, on one hand, I understand. And I definitely know people that have dated people that are like, oh, I can never hang out with you. I got to play COD or whatever
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SARAH: Or like those guys who are like, you know, make me food. I can't get up from this game. And that's like every day. That's what's happening.
KAYLA: Right. But I think there's certain times when it's like a diminishing the guy's like interests of like, oh, he's just like doing his gamers or like I shove his LEGOs into like this corner, you know, whatever
SARAH: That’s so mean
KAYLA: I know. But so yeah, I think it's… I feel like there's definitely a different like vibe to each thing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: I feel like a lot of times with women, it's… when it's not the situation of like, oh, he doesn't romance me as much as I would like, you know, like…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It's either that, or it's, he's stupid. Or…
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: The third gender is… as you're kind of saying, like, he has hobbies, and he likes to do his hobbies. But I hate his hobbies. And like, unless his hobbies are like harmful, like, that's not any different from men who like shit on Taylor Swift when they know their girlfriends really like Taylor Swift, or like… or like, you know, there are there are constructive ways to critique Miss carbon emissions.
KAYLA: For sure
SARAH: Look, I do love and appreciate her too. But she is Miss carbon emissions.
KAYLA: She is.
SARAH: And she is a little bit Miss white feminism. But like, there are ways to like, productively critique that, talk about that without being like, oh, I fucking hate this bitch. Her music's the worst. Like there's a way to say like, yeah, it's wild that, you know, she's won so many Grammys and Beyonce has never won Album of the year like…
KAYLA: Hasn’t… sure. No, I think it’s…
SARAH: It’s a little wild.
KAYLA: There's definitely a difference to have like, I think, like complaining about like men or women on mass liking something of like, oh, man, men in general, all they think about is football, like, blah, blah, blah, like, sure on mass, it's can be kind of like a joke or whatever. But if that is your partner's thing, yeah, it's like, let's like, that's your person like, let's, you know?
SARAH: Yeah, at least know enough about it. And pretend to show a little bit of interest, just because you know, they will appreciate it. Like, that's…
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Like, you don't even… you don't have to become an expert on whatever, but you just fucking listen to them when they're talking about shit like what?
KAYLA: That's what I do. Dean is obsessed with football. And I don't really get it or like it, but I know all about it, you know, because he tells me about it. But he's also very smart, because he knows I just care about the drama. So, he will just like to get me engaged, he will be like, here's the latest sports drama and that I actually care about. So, he's very smart about it. He knows what he has to say to get me to care about his hobby. But I wanted to read some of the people of Reddit like their theories about what the vibe is. So, the person who asked the question and of course, r/arethestraightsok, because, you know…
SARAH: No, they're not.
KAYLA: They're not. So, this person said, “why is spouse hating so popular for straight people?” They said, “I kind of wanted to get serious here for a second. I'm a straight cis man who was a bit uninformed about some things.” Okay, interesting. I didn't realize this was a straight person – “a straight cis man who's a bit uninformed about some things pertaining to gender and sexuality, as I'm… as in I'm not very well versed in the topic, but still have some knowledge of it but I try to stay supportive of them. Please correct me if I sound a bit stupid. It kind of bugs me how accepted spouse hating jokes are for straight couples, but not very many for LGBTQ plus couples, at least from my perspective. I myself am a person who gets curious, asks questions and ponders my own theories. I came up with theory– came up with a theory about why this might be. I feel as though a huge portion of straight people take for granted what they have. They never really had to fight for any some… They never really had to fought…” Oh, my God.
SARAH: Kayla is fighting for her life right now.
KAYLA: Shut up
SARAH: She doesn't have to fight for shit, but Kayla is fighting for her life.
KAYLA: “They never really had to fight any sort of bigotry against them, nor protest for their right to be together. Because of this, straight people don't really take something like marriage seriously. To mirror this, they don't take their spouses seriously, but instead for granted. Let me know if this makes sense, what your theories are,” blah, blah, blah.
SARAH: Honestly, I like that this is… whoa, I like that this is coming from a straight cis man.
KAYLA: Because yeah, I only skimmed like people's answers to this. I didn't realize that the person asking was…
SARAH: It's like, it's showing a lot of self-awareness and also the fact that like, it's not inherent to hetero people and hetero couples to do this. It's something that's like, learned and enforced and socialized.
KAYLA: Right. And it's like, as this person said, he's like, I'm very curious. I like to ask questions. So, it's clear that it like, yes, maybe it takes some insight and some looking at the broader culture to notice that that happens and that it's not maybe the best. So, what do you think of his theory though?
SARAH: I think it's fair. I think also just because people, straight people feel like marriages are given, which goes hand in hand with the, like taking it for granted sort of thing, or like they feel like it's a given and there are absolutely still marriages now that are like for convenience or for political reasons or like you don't actually love each other. Maybe you, it's a shotgun wedding situation, like, you know, whatever. But as we drive into the future, like it's becoming less and less necessary for people en masse…
KAYLA: En masse
SARAH: It just sounded weird for me to say on and then mass.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Anyway, it's become less necessary for people en masse
KAYLA: En masse
SARAH: To get themselves into marriages where they like hate each other.
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: And so, it's just so interesting to me that like… I don't know if people are taking that from like previous generations and just like being like, well, this is what I have to settle for.
KAYLA: Yeah. Or if that's like what's a model
SARAH: Women have always had to settle for this or yes, it's modeled as, yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah. If that's what your parents and grandparents' relationship is like and that's what you grow up with. Or like, I think even see on TV, I mean, if you think about, I think about like “Everybody Loves Raymond.” Like I watched that show growing up a lot because it was just on the cable. We didn't have whatever it's called when you don't have cable.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And like that's very much sort of a relationship where the husband is this like super dopey, just kind of like idiot and the wife is like very high strung, very naggy, whatever. And they like don't really seem to like each other at all. And it's just kind of like, ha, ha, ha.
SARAH: Yeah. Ha, ha, ha. So silly. Part of the joke. Yeah.
KAYLA: I also wonder if there's more pressure for queer couples who do get married especially to put on like a face of perfection, kind of like we were talking about with polyamorous couples in our compersion episode.
SARAH: And it was in Rhaina's book.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Because there is a part in Rhaina's book which is now out. Are you familiar?
KAYLA: Oh, yeah.
SARAH: No, it's not. It's coming out on Wednesday.
KAYLA: Well, oh, yeah. It's not. Okay. Yeah. Right. You're right. It's still pre-order.
SARAH: Depending on when in the week you're listening.
KAYLA: When you're listening. Yeah.
SARAH: But there is a section where they were talking about a lesbian couple who like went through a lot to get married. Like they were like one of the first marriages in their state. And then sometime later they decided they wanted to get divorced. And not only was it like kind of taboo because it's like, well, you like you just got this right and now you want to get divorced, but like they actually had to go to a neighboring state to get married and they didn't live there. And so, they actually couldn't get divorced because of some like red tape like hoop they had to jump through because they didn't live in the state. So, they couldn't get divorced. But like there was also just this thing of like you don't want to telegraph this idea that like, oh, well, like we just got the right to get married and we're going to abuse it. We're going to, you know, like.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Which is wild because straight people get divorced the whole time.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I remember thinking when gay marriage was legalized, I remember thinking to myself, like, I hope– like obviously people are going to get divorced. It just happens. But I was like, I hope that people don't pick up on that and make it a big thing when gay couples start getting divorced, because I could totally see people taking that and being like, oh, see, like they're not good at being married.
SARAH: I could be making this up, but I believe that the divorce rates are lower for gay couples.
KAYLA: That sounds correct, but…
SARAH: I mean, they obviously still get divorced. My sister has… I guess my sister-in-law has a friend who's now also my sister's friend who has four moms.
KAYLA: Slay, I love that. So anyway, all that to say is I do wonder if part of it is queer people being more careful about like how they talk about their relationships, especially online with these types of trends and everything to be like, I don't want to be projecting that type of image, especially when it seems like so many queer people are aware of spouse hating in the straight world. Like I've heard so many queer people talk about this and like question it. So
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But some of your… what you were saying about like seeing it from past generations and stuff, a couple of people who are answering on Reddit did say similar things. So, one person was saying, “I believe there is a historical bias considering that no fault divorce legally separated without needing to prove to the court that your spouse is abusive or unfaithful has only been legal for about 50 years, which is about two decades after birth for most boomers. This paired with strong negative bias against divorce until very recently means a lot of straight people who married right out of high school were trapped in unsatisfying or unhappy relationships or gender roles with no acceptable way of channeling that frustration except turn a very common struggle into a joke. And since gay marriage wasn't legal, there was no history of that forced cohabitation in those types of marriages.” Which I think makes a lot of sense.
SARAH: Yeah, I do too. I like this one that also says, “I think it's related to gender stereotypes. For obvious reasons same sex relationships are much more egalitarian since both people were socialized more or less the same way.” I just… like that I think is the number one fundamental difference in straight versus same sex relationships because regardless of how open the end like accepting the society is where you grew up, if you are a same sex couple, those gender stereotypes and expectations and roles don't exist.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: They do, but they don't apply to your relationship. So, any straight relationship, you know, it's coming in with this, you know, the woman should be subservient. She should cook. She should clean. And even if you and your partner are actively working against that, that's an active choice you have to make. And people will continue to try and enforce it on to you.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And so, the fact that same sex couples don't have to do that, or...
KAYLA: Well, there's obviously unique struggles there of other norms that they're breaking. But it's almost like by being in the same sex relationship in the first place, you just break all of those norms. And that breaking obviously is very difficult. You come up against a lot of people with that. But there's not those like, it's not the same type of challenges of people like trying to push you into that like very specific cookie cutter because you've already kind of like taken yourself out of it.
SARAH: And those things that are like assumed or implied with hetero relationships, like, who's going to take the garbage out? Who's going to clean the bathroom? Like those are things that you have to discuss with your partner because it's like, “oh, so if you're two gay women, what you're both going to do it?” Like, it's two gay men, “oh, it's going to be disgusting?”
KAYLA: Right. Like there's just there's no gender roles to fall back on. I think maybe part of the issue, too, is I think for straight couples, because there are so many norms and structures and like scripts around it. It's kind of easy to fall into those things without communicating, which is obviously where a lot of the problems come from. But it can be easy to just kind of like, let society make those decisions for you like, oh, I'm the woman I'm going to cook and like, he's the man he's going to do, you know, the fixing of the, you know, pipes or whatever people do.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And so that's, I think, also where problems and like the spouse hating can come up is that if you just kind of like lie dormant and allow those things to slide, if really inside you would rather them be different than… but if you're like… like you said, in a queer or same sex relationship, you can't really fall back on those decisions.
SARAH: And that's not to say that, because like, as I was talking about, like same sex relationships, I was thinking about like, lesbian relationships where one of them is really butch and one of them is really femme, like, the outside world will still enforce hetero stereotypes onto you. But I'm more so thinking of like, just the example of like, my sister and her wife who are like, not wildly different in terms of their presentation. And so, people look at them and they're like, oh, like, they don't have an assumption of like, right, who does what or whatever.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think yeah, there's obviously like, annoying people always still asking the question like, well, who's the man or whatever
SARAH: Who wears the pants?
KAYLA: Who wears the pants? Sure. But for same sex relationships, there's like, just a less obvious answer to that question, if there is an answer at all. Whereas for straight relationships, they're like, is something you could fall back on if you are pressured enough?
SARAH: And the same commenter just says like, “meanwhile, straight people are more conforming in general. For thousands of years, straight relationships were seen as suffering because of very strict gender roles and totally different socialization. The idea that men and women are total opposites covers whole society, and also sexism, because traditional religions often teach us that sex is dirty, women are dirty and vicious, and men and women can never understand each other. As a result, we have a wall of overprotection, insecurities and stereotypes between men and women. And that just kind of festers and it comes out in the way that we hate our spouses, question mark.”
KAYLA: Yeah. I also think, I think this might have been discussed in Rhaina's book too, of just like the way marriage has changed over so many years that it used to be a very transactional thing. It was very political, it was all about money, about joining families, it like was not about love at all, and that, post-industrialization, changed a lot. But the way that marriages are structured has not changed. The benefits you get from marriage, the merging of finances, the tax things, the land things, all of that has stayed the same, even though the reasons people get married is different. And so, I also wonder if there's something very constraining about that, about the pressure to get married for love, while also knowing the practicalities and the benefits that come with getting married. And so, it's almost like, back in the day, hating your husband was probably a lot more common because you did not get married to like your husband, but also…
SARAH: Yeah. You got married for financial security and he got married so that he could fuck someone and also so that he can have someone to take care of the house.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Stereotypically.
KAYLA: Right. So back then I feel like most people were probably hating their husbands, but it was also like everyone did. So, it's like…
SARAH: You're not special.
KAYLA: You're probably not talking about it that much, and if you are, it's in a very on the DL…
SARAH: It's in a casual…
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Oh, like, you know, my fucking husband, but it's like between women.
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: It's in women's spaces.
KAYLA: The confidence of…
SARAH: Yeah. But the internet is for everyone.
KAYLA: Right. And so, I think like, right now it's just different because now you're supposed to be married to someone you love. And so, complaining about them in such a public way, A, just like looks worse. And B, just like doesn't match like what else is going on just like culturally. You know? I don't know.
SARAH: This comment brings up another reason that men seem to hate their wives, which is, “my husband and I have always thought that this was the dumbest thing ever. He used to work for these two men who were typical manly men bankrolling their wives crazy spending, and so of course they were constantly going off about how much they hated them and couldn't stand them.” And there's like this whole thing of like women just want, ask for men to give them money and take care of them and whatever. And then they're, you know, men have to, and it's so expensive and it's like, what?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Well, yeah, because that also goes back to like a time when women weren't working.
SARAH: They couldn't have fucking credit cards. They couldn't like…
KAYLA: The seventies, brother! Women were only allowed to open their own credit card in the seventies.
SARAH: Really wild.
KAYLA: That's the stupidest shit.
SARAH: You know who was alive in the seventies? My parents.
KAYLA: Yeah, literally. Like your grandma, all of our grandmas, I don't even know if my grandma does have her own credit card. Well, one of my grandmas must because her husband is dead. So, I don't know about the other one though, I don't know what she's doing.
SARAH: Yeah. Like I'm just… like the first credit card that my grandmas got, they would have, my grandpas would have had to sign onto it, that’s unhinged.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's fucked.
SARAH: I hate it.
KAYLA: I also think this like, it's just going back to, I feel like everything we've said, but I think so much of it also comes down to allo and amatonormativity and just the pressure to get married once you are getting to a certain age. Like I have definitely heard stories of people that I know personally who just like were getting like, I don't know, “older,” like getting into their like late twenties or thirties or whatever and started dating a person that they like weren't, didn't really like, but like everyone around them was getting married and so they got married and it was just like an unhappy situation.
SARAH: Especially, women who like want to have biological children. It's like, “Oh, your biological clock is ticking.” Like, “you're running out of time.” And it's like, I understand that to some extent, but then it's like, well, okay, where are you going to be in 10 years? You're going to have young kids and you're going to get divorced.
[00:30:00]
KAYLA: And then are going to get divorced. Yeah. Which like, it always makes me wonder if there was not such a strong pressure on people to get married, would the divorce rates be so high? Like…
SARAH: Yeah, I don't think so. I think people would… people would get married because they wanted to not because they felt like it was the logical next step.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Escalator.
KAYLA: Tea.
SARAH: Tea.
KAYLA: In America, at least I know like conservative politicians have been pushing a lot lately for like, how do we fix the divorce rate? How do we get people married more? Like the marriage rates are dropping among younger people. People are having less kids. Like what do we do about it? Who’s going to work in our factories?
SARAH: People are leaving their abusive spouses. How are they going to procreate so we can have children do labor?
KAYLA: Right. Whose children are going to work in our factories?
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: But it's like…
SARAH: The immigrants
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: But they hate the immigrants
KAYLA: This is getting dark. But it's like, if your concern really is with the population of America dwindling, which is clearly their worry for capitalism and such.
SARAH: That's just capitalism. That is… that equals worried about capitalism.
KAYLA: Right. 100%. But it's like, if y'all would just like fucking chill and let people do shit on their own, then the divorce rates would probably go down by themselves.
SARAH: Yeah. Or like this person says, “in my experience, people who make hate my spouse jokes are in relationships with shitty people or else are shitty people themselves, or else were raised by shitty people and taught that relationships kind of suck by default. Why do they stay in these relationships? Because they think it sucks too much to be alone, so they settle for severe dysfunction. When you're gay, it's a lot more difficult to program your brain to view the world of romantic relationships a certain way. You also spend much more time single because it's harder to initiate a relationship. This means that you get to grow more as a person and understand that it's okay for things not to work out in a relationship and go back to being single. This means both parties in the gay relationship have better boundaries and they're more willing to focus on improving the relationship without feeling threatened because que sera sera.”
KAYLA: That makes a lot of sense.
SARAH: And it goes hand in hand with the allonormativity and all that sort of stuff where it's like, the non aspec queers are like, kind of like bridging the gap between these things of like, they're forced to be a little bit more self-aware, but not quite as self-aware as the aspecs are.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And like that just, I mean, that makes sense based off of whatever life experiences you would have.
KAYLA: Right. And I think it goes back to the first point that was made about like, gay marriage not being a given until very recently is that, especially queer people that are like our age and older, like marriage was not something to like have as a backup plan until like recently, like for straight people, it has always been a like, well, shit, if everything goes bad, I guess I'll just marry whoever and it'll be fine.
SARAH: Yes. Find someone…
KAYLA: But like gay people, right, like gay people didn't even have that to fall back on of like…
SARAH: Like maybe I'll get a beard, like
KAYLA: Right. So, it's like this person is saying like, you had to be okay with the fact that you might just not be married ever because it wasn't legal. Like yes, you could have a domestic partner, you could have a longtime partner, but the perks that come with marriage, all of the stability that might force someone into getting married when they don't really want to like that just like wasn't…
SARAH: Even just like living together, you might not be able to live together, you will not be able to have the hallmarks of like a traditional straight marriage.
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: In conclusion, if you hate your partner, maybe think about why.
KAYLA: I also don't think like, obviously hating your partner sometimes is normal, like hating.
SARAH: Yeah, like being annoyed or like hating that they do a specific thing or like being mad at them, like that's fine, that's normal.
KAYLA: And also like, it's not like complaining about your partner is a bad thing either. Like if your partner does something annoying, you need to like vent to your friends about it or whatever.
SARAH: But do it to your friends, don't try and traffic them on TikTok.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: Or like, I'm going to register with the TikTok shop to sell Josh. Not Josh.
KAYLA: No there's a difference between healthily venting about things happening in your relationship and feeding into the stereotype of like, I hate my wife or husband or whatever.
SARAH: And I think because like, the internet is for everyone, and the internet is forever. And so, it's like, a lot of these conversations that maybe were happening privately are now happening publicly. And it's a creating, A, permission structure and encouraging other people to also have these same kinds of conversations. But it's also, it's being stripped of the context and the nuance of if you're talking to a friend, they know details about your relationship and your partner, and why you're saying what you're saying. And they know so much more about what led up to this point. But if you're just like, I'm trafficking Josh here, click on my link in the TikTok shop. Like, all of that context and nuance is stripped away and people are just like…
KAYLA: Do I know if you're joking?
SARAH: And so, I think it's partially just like an effect of the internet being what the internet is.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think it just like, it normalizes it too. Like we were talking about if that's what your parents or your grandparents model, but then you think about if you're on the internet, and that's what other relationships are modeling and say you actually are very unhappy in your relationship, but you see all these other people posting about my stupid ass boyfriend, then you're like, “I guess this is just how relationships are supposed to be. I guess I'm supposed to just like kind of be unhappy all the time.” And then you don't realize that maybe it could be better.
SARAH: Social media is an echo chamber. And especially with places like TikTok, where the algorithm be algorithming, like, you know, you're going to get fed stuff that you relate to, because they're going to be like, “Oh, you're engaging with this.” And so, then you're going to see it more and then you're going to it's going to be more and more normalized because then you're seeing it more. And then like, the reason why like this discussion started in this instance, was because it got out of that bubble. And then other people started talking about it, then, you know, you get more perspectives in on it. And you're like, “Wait, what the fuck? Shit. Hello.” But when you’re in that bubble, when you're in that echo chamber, you don't see anything necessarily wrong with it.
KAYLA: Yeah. Tea.
SARAH: All right. Kayla.
KAYLA: That's it.
SARAH: What's our poll for this week? Do you hate your partner?
KAYLA: Do you hate your partner? That's it. Happy Valentine's Day. Do you hate your partner?
SARAH: If you could traffic your partner on the TikTok…
KAYLA: Okay…
SARAH: Shut up.
KAYLA: We're not putting that on our social media.
SARAH: What? It's almost as if when we put it on social media, it'll be stripped off all context.
KAYLA: That's crazy. What?
SARAH: Whoa.
KAYLA: What do you mean?
SARAH: Anyway. Okay, sure. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: Oh, let's see. Okay, I'll start with beef. My beef is, listen, I have a comfy. Or I guess the other… it is like an hoodie. They're like the sweatshirt, the giant sweatshirts made out of blanket material.
SARAH: So, they're like Snuggies, but sweatshirts.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's this. I'm showing Sarah. It's a sweatshirt.
SARAH: It's pansexual tie dye.
KAYLA: It is kind of, yeah. But it's a sweatshirt, a giant sweatshirt that goes down to your knees made of fuzzy blanket material. Anyway, I have one and I wear it every day because my house is cold and also when I wear it my cats think I'm a big cat and so then they like to snuggle with me. Like they get mad if I'm not wearing it. So, I wear it like every day. And recently my boss keeps telling me, because I keep showing up every morning to our morning meeting in my sweater and he recently has been like, you need to change your sweater. Your outlook on life is going to be better if you're not wearing the same thing every day. To which I told him…
SARAH: But I'm comfy.
KAYLA: Exactly. And I told him, he wears the same outfit every day because he does. And he was like, yeah, well, I know what it does to my mental outlook, so you shouldn't do it. And I said, this feels a little hypocritical.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So, I hope he listens to this because sometimes he listens.
SARAH: Maybe he's just saying you should get more of them in like different colors.
KAYLA: Ooh. Okay, I'll tell him that he should buy me more and then maybe my outlook on life will be better.
SARAH: Perfect.
KAYLA: Excellent response. Today in a meeting, he wasn't there, but I wasn't wearing it and so then my coworker put in our Slack. She was like, oh, big news. Kayla isn't wearing her sweater. And I was like, shut the fuck up. Tattling on me.
SARAH: It's like when I was in fourth grade or I don't know, at some point in elementary school, I had this purple sweater. I wore it every day.
KAYLA: I know about the purple sweater.
SARAH: I wore it every day. And my mom was always like, you need to wash it. And I was like, no. And she didn't think I had…
KAYLA: Some autism. Yeah. Your mother, the professional with kids' needs was like, man, my daughter keeps wearing the same purple sweater every other day.
SARAH: She just must really like this sweater. She gets upset if she can't wear it.
KAYLA: She doesn't need to be tested for anything. It's fine.
SARAH: Oh, Julie's doing her best.
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: She was doing her best. That was my beef. My juice is, listen, I mentioned this book a couple of weeks ago when I hadn't gotten it yet. I just heard about it. I started reading the book called, I think it's called, I think it’s called “Don’t…”
SARAH: You don't even know what it’s called
KAYLA: I was trying to look at it, but it's kind of long. Okay. It's called “Don't Want You Like a Best Friend.” It's the one I mentioned that's like Parent Trap x Bridgerton, but gay. And I started reading it yesterday and I read like maybe a fourth of it. And then I read it earlier today and I got through like, now I'm like three fourths of the way through. And… so, I haven't finished it yet, so I guess it could get bad and then I'm recommending a book that maybe has a terrible ending, but I don't think it'll happen. Because so far, it's very good and it's so gay and I definitely cried a lot. And it is a little, there is a small bit of smut. So far three fourths of the way through, there's only one smut. So, if you don't like a smut, then I guess…
SARAH: How smut? What level of smut?
KAYLA: It's definitely not the smuttiest smut I've read.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: It's like… it's definitely, it's not fade to black.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But it's also not like...
SARAH: Is it like a good M, a solid M, higher than an M, but not crazy?
KAYLA: I don’t know, it's like, it's not like, whoa, but it's also like, they tell you what's… where things are going. That's a good way to put it. They tell you when things are going places.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: So.
SARAH: Okay. That's helpful.
KAYLA: So anyway, there's only been one so far. If there's not another one, I'm actually going to be kind of disappointed because one of the like blurbs on the front was like, “Ooh, spice.” So, I was like, where is it?
SARAH: Spice?
KAYLA: There has only been one so far. So, like, I will be disappointed if there's not more. Anyway, all that said, I like smut, sorry. All this to say it's very good so far and that's my juice. And I very bravely stopped reading it to watch the new episode of Sarah's television show. And then I didn't start reading it again after, because I knew if I did, I would just be trying to speed towards finishing it and then I wouldn't get the full experience. And then I… if I did finish it, I'd be in a weird head space for the podcast, because if I finish a book I really liked, then I have to sit and think about it in silence for a little bit. So, anyway
SARAH: Bogie can you stop screaming?
KAYLA: He can't, he has a lot of feelings about my book.
SARAH: Can you hear him?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Oh, I can… he's loud. Hold on.
KAYLA: So anyway, Sarah is leaving. So anyway, she's dealing with the cat. I… after we record this, we'll be finishing the book. I don't care how late I stay up. I need to know what happens to these lesbians and their parents also, because… a parent trap of it all. Anyway. Um, what are y'all reading? Anything good? I also ordered, she's gone, so, you know, I also ordered, um, the book “Most Ardently,” which is a trans retelling of Pride and Prejudice. I haven't started it yet. It hasn't arrived at my house, but I'll check back in on that one.
SARAH: I think my roommate left for some reason.
KAYLA: Oh, bye.
SARAH: Oh, I guess it's only 8:40. It's not like it's really late.
KAYLA: It's the middle of the night!
SARAH: It's just dark.
KAYLA: How dare she?
SARAH: Um, but I was like, usually he doesn't yell like that when she's here. And I was like, did she leave? Maybe she's not. Yes, she did. Um, anyway, uh, did you do… did you do both your juice and your beef?
KAYLA: Yes, I'm done now.
SARAH: Great. I'll find out later.
KAYLA: You may proceed. You'll hear it.
SARAH: My juice is I got a really nice text from one of my BTS friends who just read our book...
KAYLA: I saw it.
SARAH: Yeah, I sent it to Kayla and it was just a really nice text.
KAYLA: It was so sweet.
SARAH: Um, and my friend is the bestest and she's the most kindest, sweetest, nicest person in the world.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Full stop. Um, my other juice is that, oh my God, I got an email today from my homeowner's association.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Starting on Apey Fools.
KAYLA: Apey Fools? Are you sure? Or is it an Apey Fools joke?
SARAH: It would be real early if they're starting it now.
KAYLA: That would be like a long con.
SARAH: Um, the state of California is requiring residences to have… to collect food and yard waste, which means I no longer have to waffle about splurging on a composter because I will have a place to put, I will have to get like a compost bin for my apartment.
KAYLA: Can't you ask the city for one?
SARAH: I mean, we will have one for our building.
KAYLA: Oh, I see.
SARAH: I mean like in my apartment, um, so I don't just have like loose eggshells on the floor.
KAYLA: I think you still might be able to request that because we have a larger compost bin that's outside of our houses, but then my roommate also got one from the city for in the house.
SARAH: I mean, I'm also just going to look at it because like I don't… I also want…
KAYLA: Fine! Fine.
SARAH: I don't want a shitty one that's going to make it smelly.
KAYLA: No, that’s fine. No, actually you shouldn't get a shitty one because ours was shitty and it started leaking, so that's fine, I guess. Whatever.
SARAH: Okay. Anyway, I'm just excited about composting.
KAYLA: I'm so happy for you.
SARAH: My beef is car-centric urban planning. Just one lane? One more lane? Not going to solve it. Not going to solve it.
KAYLA: Yeah, probably not.
SARAH: Those who are on lane man TikTok get it.
KAYLA: Oh, okay.
SARAH: You know, lane man.
KAYLA: I don’t
SARAH: Just one more lane. Also, the TikTok of the cat who likes to eat red dye and… I've sent you this cat before.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: It's just the cat that's like, it's not even a specific cat. It's just like a child voice where it's like, I love eating rocks. Rocks are so good for you. they give you so many vitamins and minerals. Like that's the vibe of all of the videos and some of them are in fact about car-centric urban planning.
KAYLA: Oh, good. I love that.
SARAH: So anyway, hashtag lane man. Um, great. You can tell us about your beef or your joos or, and your juice or, and gravy. And yeah, I was going to say my beef is that it has been raining in LA, but like, is that really beef? It's been fine.
KAYLA: It's beef for the people driving, I assume.
SARAH: Yeah. I mean, it did make my drive home a lot worse today. Also, it has been, this morning it was sunny, but then by the time I was driving home, it was raining pretty good again. But like prior to that, it had been raining for like 48 hours straight and not like drizzling for 40, like raining for 48 hours straight. Um, and I heard at some point that like within 24 hours we got like over six inches, which I know to a lot of you is like, okay
KAYLA: LA that's a lot
SARAH: But that's sometimes more than LA gets in a year.
KAYLA: Yeah. I bet the LA river had a small trickle.
SARAH: Ooh, I saw a video of like a section of the LA river that was like almost overflowing because the LA river…
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: For those in the know, the LA river is just surrounded by concrete on all sides.
KAYLA: And it's usually empty.
SARAH: And it's usually pretty much empty.
KAYLA: Because the river doesn’t exist
SARAH: Yes. Um, but it was like going above the concrete walls and like maybe onto a bridge a little bit.
KAYLA: Wow. A big day for the LA river.
SARAH: Big day for the LA river. And there was like a literal state of emergency…
KAYLA: Oh, jeez
SARAH: Because our infrastructure is not designed to support and there was a lot of like road flooding and stuff.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: So, like I could say that's my beef, but I don't know. I'm not that bothered by it. You know what my beef is? I went to the gym yesterday and I had my umbrella because it was raining and they had a little box that was like, please put your umbrellas here
KAYLA: Oh, no
SARAH: So that you don't drip your umbrellas all through the place. And I did because I am a good Samaritan. I am a good neighbor. Like a good neighbor. Sarah is there. And um, the problem was that I spent the entire time at the gym anxious that someone was going to steal my umbrella.
KAYLA: See I was worried you were about to say that someone stole your umbrella.
SARAH: I literally did a new machine that I had never done before…
KAYLA: Sarah
SARAH: Because it was closer to the umbrellas.
KAYLA: Ma'am, umbrellas are like $5.
SARAH: Yeah, but I like the feeling of the handle on mine. I'm neurodivergent.
KAYLA: I have no comment on what you've just said.
SARAH: Social media, @soundsfakepod. We also have Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you'd like to support us there. And in case someone does steal my umbrella, I can use that money to get a new umbrella with an appropriately textured handle.
KAYLA: Julie, if you're listening, I think you dropped the ball.
SARAH: Don't make Julie feel bad.
KAYLA: It's okay Julie.
SARAH: Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Laila, Lily, Mary S, Mel McMeans and Melissa. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Derek and Karissa. Oh, did Derek, Derek emailed.
KAYLA: Not a… yeah, but not about a new thing.
SARAH: Not about a new thing?
KAYLA: It was like an episode... It was an episode idea.
SARAH: Slay. Thanks, Derek. I don't… I didn't read the email, but I saw that you read the email.
KAYLA: Sarah.
SARAH: Kayla read the email, obviously.
KAYLA: I did. I haven't responded.
SARAH: Sorry.
KAYLA: I'm so bad at the email.
SARAH: Derek and Karissa would like to promote supporting each other through the transitions we face, including the transition between not having read the email to having read the email to having answered the email.
[00:50:00]
KAYLA: To responding. Yeah. It's a long, you wouldn't… you would know if you've emailed us because you'll get an email like three months later from me being like, “I’m so sorry.” I start almost every email response these days with so sorry. It's been five months.
SARAH: At the beginning of this podcasting session, Kayla was like, “oh, there's an email for you.” And I was like, “is it the one you sent me the other day?” And she was like, “no.” And I was like, “there are two emails for me?”
KAYLA: And the one… and the one it was from January. And I just kept forgetting to tell Sarah to look at it
SARAH: She was like, I kept… like, she didn't. So silly.
KAYLA: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe if Sarah would check the email, it'd be fine. But whatever.
SARAH: I see that we get emails, like I get notifications.
KAYLA: That makes it worse maybe.
SARAH: But unless I can obviously see it's definitely for me.
KAYLA: Okay. So, if you ever want to reach Sarah in our email, you need to put in the subject line.
SARAH: This is Sarah...
KAYLA: Sarah read this.
SARAH: Sarah read this.
KAYLA: To ensure that she reads it.
SARAH: And then there's a 90% chance I'll read it.
KAYLA: Maybe.
SARAH: Without Kayla's help.
KAYLA: Yeah. Anyway.
SARAH: Elle Beiter who would like to promote the normalizing the use of tone indicators slash... And my aunt Jeannie who would like to promote Christopher's Haven, Kayla's dad who would like to promote jennycreations.com and Maff who would like to promote the “don't should” sweatshirts. Our other $10 patrons are Martin Giselle Parker, Purple Haze, Barefoot Backpacker, Song of Storm, Val, Allison, Annie, Arkness, Benjamin Ybarra, Selena Dobson, and David Harris. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer, Crystal Shearer, nailed that.
KAYLA: Very good.
SARAH: Andrew Alum who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Dia Chappelle who would like to promote twitch.tv/melodydia, Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive and help you grow as a better person. Like when they say, “hey, there's an email for you.” And then two days later, they're like, “hey, did you read that email?”
KAYLA: Hey, hey
SARAH: And then they're like, “hey, did you answer the email? And then right before you record, you're like, “wait, don't talk to me. I'm answering the email.”
KAYLA: I have to answer the email. Yeah
SARAH: Nathaniel White who would like to promote Nathanieljwhitedesigns.com, Kayla Zanina who would like to promote KateMaggartArt.com, and we have a new one. It is schnelll.
KAYLA: Schnelll.
SARAH: Schnelll, let me know what you want to promote for now.
KAYLA: I thought they messaged.
SARAH: Did they?
KAYLA: There is an email.
SARAH: I don't read our emails.
KAYLA: There was the email.
SARAH: I don't read our emails.
KAYLA: You were in our email, not minutes ago. It was in the same section as where you found that they had become a patron, right above it. Right above it.
SARAH: Oh, wow.
KAYLA: They would like to promote, accepting that everyone is different, and that's awesome. It was literally right above the other email you saw.
SARAH: I was going to say, in my defense, Kayla's organization of our email I can’t find it because…
KAYLA: Oh, no, but you can’t because it was right… but it was right…
SARAH: But on that one, I have no ground to stand on.
KAYLA: Yeah, no. And I thought, because you were like, oh, schnell, fast, and I thought you meant fastest and like, oh, they emailed us right away. That's so nice. But you were saying schnell because it means fast in German.
SARAH: No, I meant schnell because means fast in German
KAYLA: And I thought you were saying both, but clearly, anyway.
SARAH: Anyway. Well, Schnelll, with three Ls, by the way, would like to promote accepting that everyone is different, and that's awesome, and they would also like to promote being fast. Our $20 patrons are dragonfly and my mom…
KAYLA: Mom
SARAH: And they together would like to promote my purple sweater
KAYLA: R.I.P.
SARAH: It's… my author photo, I'm wearing it in my childhood author photo.
KAYLA: Did we ever post that, the author photo? I think we must have
SARAH: Yes, it was at the end of our Instagram carousel, I recall.
KAYLA: The end of our Instagram carousel.
SARAH: At some point. I was stalking us recently, and I encountered it.
KAYLA: Great. Well, go scroll around and find it.
SARAH: Scroll around and see if you can find it.
KAYLA: I'm going to buy you an exact replica, but in your size now.
SARAH: I wouldn't… my style has a fault.
KAYLA: Yes, as we've seen recently on your Instagram stories, your style has a fault.
SARAH: It had a fuzzy hood.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: That was part of the reason my mom was like, “we need to wash it,” because the hood… we live in Michigan, there's so much shit in that.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I'm pretty sure she made me not wear it in my school picture.
KAYLA: That seems rude. If you're wearing it every day, wouldn't you want…
SARAH: Mom, it's who I am.
KAYLA: Well, I'm just saying, if I were a mom and I'm looking back at my kids' school pictures and I'm like, oh man, that was the year of the purple sweater. I like kind of want the purple sweater in the picture.
SARAH: But she wanted me to look nice.
KAYLA: Seems like it was a nice purple sweater.
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your purple sweaters.
SARAH: Put the purple sweaters on the cow.
KAYLA: Lovely.
SARAH: It wouldn't have fit a cow, but you can try.
KAYLA: You could get a cow size. Like a little cow.
SARAH: Sure. Okay, bye.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]