Ep 103: Dating While Asexual
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SARAH: Hey what's up hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl, that's me Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode, dating as an asexual person.
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
[Intro Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: M’uffins.
SARAH: That's so true. Kayla and I were just talking about that Muffins YouTube video from like 2007.
KAYLA: Yeah, we set an hour-long business meeting.
SARAH: We did, we're professionals.
KAYLA: Because we're professionals and then we talked about that video so
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Pretty much living the dream over here.
SARAH: Yeah. It feels to us like it has been a while but it is the same amount of time for our listeners.
KAYLA: Yeah, it does feel like it's been forever.
SARAH: Because we last recorded over a week ago.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And when people are listening to this I will be in Michigan.
SARAH: She will.
KAYLA: And we will have seen each other two days ago.
SARAH: Two days ago.
KAYLA: Basically, the next episode you hear after this will be one that we recorded live together. I mean not live but like…
SARAH: Live and in person. It was live for us.
KAYLA: Yeah, it'll be one where we're not apart so get excited. I guess
SARAH: Which means if there are weird noises I won't be able to cut them out.
KAYLA: That's so true.
SARAH: And we're going to be recording at my sister's apartment, sneak peek.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And she lives right by the hospital so she hears every siren.
KAYLA: Yep.
SARAH: It's going to be great.
KAYLA: And so will you.
SARAH: Might even hear some trains because she's close to the train tracks too.
KAYLA: You'll finally hear the train.
SARAH: Incredible. Okay a small just correction from last week. I say the word wrong.
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Hold on, I'm going to have my computer say it.
KAYLA: Oh, is this the German thing?
SARAH: Sinu, I said sinew. It's sinu apparently. Listen I learned it from reading.
KAYLA: Literally as Sarah was editing the podcast, she was like oh my god I said this German word wrong should I cut the whole thing? And I was like no. No one cares.
SARAH: Uh the other day I was thinking to myself like what would I say like speaking German on the podcast and thinking to myself it went fine but as soon as you put a microphone in front of me I panic.
KAYLA: Well, what are you going to do?
SARAH: What are you going to do? Okay, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This is a thing that we've had many people write in about and also like from our original like us brainstorming ideas in the very beginning like two years ago was something we like had talked about.
SARAH: It was on that list yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, um but basically, we've never done it because I think Sarah and I just don't have a lot of personal experience with this um and maybe one day we'll be able to have someone on and they can talk about it for real.
SARAH: I would love to do that.
KAYLA: Yeah, I know you guys have been asking for more interviews and one day that will…
SARAH: You're getting an interview next week.
KAYLA: Oh, that's true fuck you you're getting an interview next week you're fine um, anyway.
SARAH: I mean it's with a person we've already interviewed but don't worry about it.
KAYLA: It's fine, it's fine um yeah so, this week we're talking about like dating as an ace person like what people should do if they are dating an ace person, things if you are the ace person.
SARAH: Yeah, and just like bearing in mind obviously… not obviously but neither of us have really had a ton of experience with this but there's just stuff that we've gathered from doing this pod and talking to people who listen to the pod so we're just going to kind of talk about it. Because like I don't have experience dating an ace person or a person…
KAYLA: Or dating
SARAH: Or a living being, I know inner species dating here but you know….
KAYLA: Jesus
SARAH: I still… as I've learned from Bachelor in Paradise have a good idea of how dating should go.
KAYLA: Okay, I don't know about that but okay.
SARAH: But okay seriously from other life you know I've seen relationships I and I've been aro-ace and so I know some of the struggles that might arise.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Do you want to start with talking about what personal experience you do have as a demi-human?
KAYLA: I suppose I will. Um okay and yeah so, I mean obviously I'm demi and I have dated but I think like I mean obviously the dating experience is different for everyone and every ace person and every demi person. Um I mean I guess I'll talk a little bit more as we go about why I feel like I don't have the most experience with this but whatever okay. So, when I first like realized I was demi and came to terms with it I was in the middle of a relationship um so it had gone past to the point where being demi wasn't super pertinent if that makes sense.
SARAH: Hmm, I mean you'd already gotten to the point in your relationship where you were comfortable so like you didn't need to…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It didn't affect anything.
KAYLA: Yeah, we didn't have to like have a conversation or anything. That relationship ended and after that I was like really coming to terms with being demi because then it was like actually kind of like more relevant in my life.
SARAH: Affecting your dating life yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah it was like something I was more actively thinking about. What happened then? Then I had, I think the biggest instance I've had of my sexuality affecting my dating life was after… we'll call that relationship one. Jesus. When you have to number your relationships. So that was relationship one then when I started the podcast with if you've been listening the whole time that was relationship one. This is so sad.
SARAH: I was going to say we could use actual names then I was like no let's not do that.
KAYLA: Well, I do think I've used all of their names in episodes but we don't need to bring that back.
SARAH: Yeah, let's not.
KAYLA: They're fine they don't need that kind of clout.
SARAH: They don't need that PR.
KAYLA: No. So okay so after relationship one was over I like had a thing where I was like talking a lot to this one person and then like I wanted to date him like seriously but he was like I don't want that right now and that was the experience I think I most had to come to terms with my sexuality because I was like in order for anything to happen here like I need to be dating you but that's not what you want and for a while I was like it's fine I can be super casual and then I was like no I'm super demi.
SARAH: Yeah, I remember you being like this is not fine.
KAYLA: Yeah, and that was kind of like when I really solidified like I'm supes demi. So that was like the biggest impact it had on me was just like… I mean it kind of affected what kind of relationship I wanted to have and like he this person wasn't willing to do what I wanted to do which is obviously fine. People want different things and so that was the first instance of it really affecting my dating life. Granted at the time I didn't really have the vocabulary to talk to him about it.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And I didn't really try. So, I don't know how things would have gone if I was like hey this is where I'm at.
SARAH: You weren't ready to have that conversation.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: I felt like from my perspective you were invested in the relationship but you could tell that there wasn't so much investment on both sides that it would be worth going through that of having that conversation when you were still so close to the beginning really of your understanding of your own sexuality.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean yeah, I was really at the beginning of understanding my sexuality and I wasn’t in position to really talk to anyone about it because I hadn't like talked to myself about it basically. So, after that we go into relationship two. So, relationship two was someone I found… well relationship one was also on Tinder. Relationship two came from Tinder. It's fine. And I had in my bio on Tinder that I was Demi and it actually like came up in a fair amount of conversations I would have with people and I never ran into anyone that was like rude about it which was slightly disappointing. I kind of wanted to like make a Twitter scandal out of it.
SARAH: But also, that's good.
KAYLA: No, it is very good but I was also like where's my content.
SARAH: I remember you being like I want content.
KAYLA: I know I wanted content for our Twitter but it was good. It was very good.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, and so I know one of the questions we've received in the past I don't know who asked this a lot of people asked about this topic a long time ago so I'm very sorry. Someone asked like when is the right time to tell your date that you're asexual.
SARAH: And you went right up front.
KAYLA: So, I did. So, I went right up front and I mentioned it in my bio. Other people had mentioned it. This particular person I don't think ever brought it up when we were like talking on Tinder and then it didn't… I don't think it came up like on the first date.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: But it was like a date where we went and got smoothies and I had rehearsal after so it's not like anything was going to happen.
SARAH: Yeah.
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: And then I remember he like brought it up at another point like hey can you like explain this to me like he had like looked it up I think. And was like I just want to hear your thing about it and then it was fine.
SARAH: But also like you can read stuff online but everyone's experience is going to be different, so
KAYLA: Yeah. So, like I talked to him about it and then it was really good like he was always like are comfortable with whatever like you let me know where you are. It was fine. The one weird thing I will say about I guess going into a relationship with… I guess going into a relationship with like a non-normative sexuality, I guess. I don't know, I've never talked to a bisexual person about this of like if a bisexual woman started dating a man about this. But so obviously I had been very upfront about my sexuality. It was in my bio and so I suppose I like don't have the right to find this upsetting. But I remember he had like told his friends about it and told his friends I was demisexual. And so, the first time I met them they were like asking me about it. I mean they were also second of all like not a lot of them had the most liberal ideas, I guess.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And they like said some things otherwise that I was like, can… I think I called some girl a whore and I was like can we not and then I got in a fight with his friend and it was yeah.
SARAH: I remember you talking about getting into arguments with those friends.
KAYLA: I think they were really stupid. They were like… were really bad. So, I guess that was just something… I mean I don't even know if I have a point about that because obviously like I was opening up front about my sexuality and I didn't tell him like not to talk to anyone about it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I also have a podcast about it so it's like out there.
SARAH: But it is weird when like someone is telling other people secondhand about your identity when you don't necessarily know how those people are going to react to it but you are going to have to interact with those people.
KAYLA: Right like yeah, I had never met these people and then the fact that they were that they were asking me so upfront about it and again like I have a podcast so maybe this is like my bad for not expecting it but it was very weird to like be put on the spot with that.
SARAH: Yeah, I mean I think even if you have a podcast like you're not walking into a Q&A right now like you're meeting your boyfriend's friends and so sometimes that can kind of throw you off a bit and like I'm… because I'm me, I'm often not necessarily comfortable with super direct questions especially coming from strangers especially when I don't expect them and that can be difficult to deal with and you know that can also happen to people on like first dates or that sort of thing so… but I can understand why that would be difficult.
KAYLA: Yeah so, I guess I mean my I guess piece of advice from that experience would be I mean like if you're coming out to someone like a significant other or someone you're dating maybe it would be a good idea to like lay some understanding of like I'm telling you this and I either am or am not comfortable with you like sharing that.
SARAH: Yeah, or like…
KAYLA: I am or am not comfortable with like your friends bringing it up or something.
SARAH: Right or like I am comfortable with you telling your friends I am not comfortable with you telling your parents or that sort of thing.
KAYLA: Yeah so, I think I guess that would be my piece of advice for that and like obviously there's not a lot of control you can have over like what people tell people.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But like I mean you can at least control like hey can they like not talk to me about it I'm not super comfortable.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: In terms of when to bring it up to a date.
SARAH: And this I would say this applies to kind of any ace identity like ace-spec identity.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Whether that's like gray-sexual, asexual, demi. If like if you're interested in someone romantically basically any ace-spec identity I feel like this could apply to.
KAYLA: I feel like it could even apply to like other sexualities too though.
SARAH: Oh, it definitely could.
KAYLA: Like if you're like a bi woman dating a man if you're like hey this is me but like can we not.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think.
SARAH: Let's not make a thing of it but also, it's important for me to you to… oh yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah. My thing with like when to tell a date I mean I don't know obviously like I was comfortable enough to like be upfront about it but I mean obviously not everyone is going to be comfortable with that.
SARAH: Especially if you're kind of at the beginning of your coming to terms with your sexuality. I can understand there being a certain reticence to talking about it but I would also just encourage people like if you end up in a situation where you're not comfortable you don't owe anyone an explanation.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: Like you… like if you are comfortable with like being open and talking to that person about like I'm not comfortable with this, here's why, take it or leave it then that's great but also if you're not at that point which I feel like a lot of people who might be concerned about dating as an ace-spec person might still kind of be at that point like you don't owe anyone an explanation for how you feel or what you're comfortable with and bear that in mind as we're kind of talking through all of this stuff.
KAYLA: Right, this is definitely like as we said with my one situation like I wasn't comfortable with it and I didn't talk about it you know like you don't have to.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I think my one thing is like if you are comfortable talking about it and you're trying to figure out like the most like I don't know strategic time to bring it up or something I mean if you're comfortable right at the beginning sure but I think like my one thing is like I can understand the temptation to wait until you like know them better.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. And you feel more comfortable.
KAYLA: And you feel more comfortable. I feel like my one concern with that though is like I can imagine if I was dating someone and I felt like I knew them really well and then they were like also this I would feel like because it's such a big part of people's identity.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like I mean I think I would be understanding about like oh yeah that's a big deal I can understand why you wanted to wait but I can imagine…
SARAH: Not everyone is that informed
KAYLA: I can understand people being like why would you keep such a big thing for me? You know?
SARAH: Yeah, and I can also see a person on the other side of it like if maybe sex is really important to them in a relationship like I can see why they may feel let on. And so, I would say err on the side of telling them sooner rather than later just because if they don't react to it well then fucking dump their ass. You don't want them in your life anyway.
KAYLA: Right, you don't want to be dating someone that's like not going to be accommodating or like either isn't compatible with what you need in a relationship like and that's fine that doesn't make them an asshole or if they are an asshole.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like those aren't probably relationships that are going to work out either way for a variety of different reasons so it's like in my mind and maybe this is just like how I approach things it's like almost better to get rid of them and not waste your time and like if you're in your mind you're like oh if I really like bond with them maybe they'll like be okay with it once we're like really connected and like, you what know I mean.
SARAH: It's not up to you to fix them.
KAYLA: Right no, I know but I'm…
SARAH: To change them. That's what I'm just saying like I understand that thought but like it's not your responsibility.
KAYLA: No, I'm just yeah, I'm saying like as an asexual person you might be like oh well if it's going really well maybe they would be okay with not having sex but like that person really might like need sex in a relationship and you're not going to change that, so.
SARAH: Yeah and like having this conversation in a relationship can be really difficult and like it might be not a good time and you might end up staying together and it might turn out being… to be fine but like it's still something that I think in a healthy relationship there needs to be understanding and communication on both ends and so if you are not totally comfortable explaining things fully but they are still supportive of like whatever your needs are then that's great but again you don't owe anyone an explanation you can just pull an Elle Hopper and say I dump your ass.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: What an icon.
KAYLA: Truly, did you see the new trailer thing?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean so yeah, I guess that would be my advice on that I don't know how helpful that is.
SARAH: Yeah, I mean I think…. I don't know what I think, I think it's all just about like finding people who are open to not just like open to like being progressive and not being a dick but like there are plenty of people who are like progressive and not dicks who just like need sex out of a relationship and that's something that's important to them and I think it's important to remember as an ace-spec person who might be dating… I say as an ace-spec person who doesn't date but as that kind of person it's important to remember that even if people are accepting of your sexuality, they still might not be willing to move forward with the relationship and that's not your fault
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And it's not necessarily their fault either like as long as they're not a dick about it like I think it's important to remember that like this is… it's not like it was your sexuality that caused you to break up even though it might feel like that way like it's just like there are certain things in relationships that you need to be on the same page about and it might be like this person is a Mormon and I am Muslim and this is not going to work or it might be like this person is asexual and I'm not and this is not going to work like it's not necessarily…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You know, it might be difficult to kind of take in but it’s still…
KAYLA: I think we talked about this in like the recent bachelor episode of like love languages and like physical touch is like one of the five so if you're with someone who like really needs physical touch as a way of like being showed affection like that's just how it is
SARAH: Yeah and if you're not comfortable with that then you're not comfortable with that, you don't need to necessarily make like… don't necessarily put yourself in a situation that makes you very uncomfortable just for another person, you might be willing to maybe try it and then be like okay I didn't like that let's not do that again and if they're cool about that then that's wonderful but like if you want to kind of push yourself a little bit for the sake of the relationship I can definitely understand that but you still need to communicate with your partner and if you push yourself a little bit and then find out like no this is not I can't then don't keep pushing yourself
KAYLA: Right, because now I have a segue into the next thing wrap up of this section number two relationship is gone and now I'm in relationship number three
SARAH: Oh right
KAYLA: It also went fine with my sexuality because we had known each other before and he knew about it and it was fine
SARAH: Did he like know well before you started dating or was it just like….
KAYLA: Okay, so it was actually kind of weird I guess this is a…. I guess an interesting point maybe, maybe it's just interesting to me, so we were friends before, he was on the Quidditch team with me and Sarah, and so I actually never knew how much of my sexuality he knew because me and Sarah were like open and always talked about the podcast but I didn’t know if he had really listened to it or like really looked into what it was about
SARAH: Yeah, like to what extent he paid attention to that
KAYLA: So, I actually didn’t know in the beginning how much he knew
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But… I can't remember if we like talked about it or if we just like rolled with it basically it was fine he was like also very good about like what are you comfortable with like where are you? are you okay? and it was very good
SARAH: I’m on the roof
KAYLA: Yes, I was, um I wasn't. like the one thing I guess that was like notable about the start of that one was we had like a common friend who once asked him like you know she's demisexual right and like the friend asked like not for malicious reasons but like it kind of like freaked me out that he had asked that because I was like what the fuck is that supposed to mean like he can't date me because whatever and like why are other people talking about my sexuality without me being there that's weird because that had never happened to me before. I mean I guess if any of you are talking about me maybe you do but
SARAH: Yeah, but I mean that situation turned out fine because it was not ill-intentioned
KAYLA: Yeah, it was literally just the common friend being curious if he had like listened to the podcast it was fine
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I just freaked out yeah
SARAH: I remember that very clearly
KAYLA: I'm allowed to freak out though like that's fine
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So anyway, that's relationship three we're doing great
SARAH: Nice
KAYLA: Nice, uh bowtie on that transition, so speaking of like communicating in relationships and knowing what each other needs there was also questions about like what to do if you're already in a relationship when you like realize you are ace, there was one of like I'm married and now or like if you're like in a long, committed relationship
SARAH: Maybe you live together maybe… yeah
KAYLA: Yeah, do you have any thoughts on this?
SARAH: I mean I would say be honest and communicate freely when you are comfortable doing it. I mean that is the biggest thing is like communication is so important but it's important to do it on your own timeline and I think if you are in a committed relationship and the person you are in a relationship with is you know really cares about you and is open and I would hope that they would react well or even if you're just like I'm kind of struggling, I'm still into you don't worry but like I'm just kind of figuring things out, I need you to let me do that for a little bit not necessarily like running away and joining a nunnery but just like you know
KAYLA: Jesus
SARAH: I couldn't decide if I wanted to say running away and having an orgy or joining a nunnery and they're really two extremes
KAYLA: I mean if you're ace are you really running away to have an orgy
SARAH: I mean that's why I went for the nunnery
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Seems more likely
KAYLA: See but now you're messing up celibacy and asexuality and I don't appreciate that
SARAH: Well maybe this person was like maybe I need to be celibate for a while to really understand
KAYLA: Okay that's fine
SARAH: Maybe they need to find God
KAYLA: Do they though?
SARAH: So, like I think if you're in a good healthy relationship like the other person or persons if it's a polyamorous relationship would hopefully be receptive to that and if they're not then that's dicks and I'm not going to tell you what to do but…
KAYLA: I mean yeah
SARAH: It doesn't seem like that relationship is good for you
KAYLA: Yeah, I think it's really tough with these conversations and this is like a relationship thing in general like I've definitely had breakups where it was just like it's not like we had some like big fight it was more of like okay these things about us just like aren't compatible
SARAH: Yeah, we’re just not on the same page
KAYLA: Like that's why we need to part ways. And I think like that’s something like that's similar here of like it's not necessarily like I don't love you anymore it's not necessarily like fuck you, you're a terrible person it's just like our love languages are too different like our lifestyles are different, our life paths are like diverging and I think… I mean from experience that's extremely painful and so I can understand why someone like would be afraid to have that conversation…
SARAH: Especially if he's still genuinely really care about the first person is that the first person I don't know why I said first person
KAYLA: Because like in your mind you might be like okay this is happening now but I still want to stay with this person but you might be afraid that if you bring it up that like they won't want to stay with you
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Whatever and which is like completely understandable and I've like truly been there but in my mind and like this is… I realize I'm like 22 and like have no business giving relationship advice but…
SARAH: We were asked for it
KAYLA: But we were asked for it so fuck you
SARAH: You have no place giving relationship advice, I'm 21 and I've never been in a relationship
KAYLA: I mean, I have more of a place than you do but like a grand scheme of things this is like literally me a child being like um I've had a couple boyfriends though
SARAH: I love the grand scheme of things
KAYLA: I also love the grand scheme of things, is that like band name?
SARAH: Yeah, the grand scheme of things, continue
KAYLA: Oh, like a kind of like a musical theater screamo band, isn't it though?
SARAH: A little bit
KAYLA: Someone make me an album cover, anyway like in the grand scheme of things like you need to like if you're going to hold this in and not have the conversation it's going to end up like making you unhappy
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And like feel stifled and like… it might be an extremely painful conversation to have and maybe the relationship won't keep going but like from my experience it's going to work out better in the end if you don't force it and like try to keep stuff down and like try to force yourself to be compatible with like maybe you're not and obviously maybe it'll be fine and you'll stay together you just like need to work through like what you both need and like what your boundaries are, what you're like… what you each need to do in the relationship to like make the other person like feel loved and comfortable but like worst case scenario you don't end up together but my thinking is that's probably for the best
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Yeah, and I recognize that for some people there may be external factors you might have kids there might be social taboos if you're like legally married about being separated or divorced I understand that but I think ultimately you have to think about what is best for you and if it's going to be worse to stay in this relationship when there's something like misaligned that you can't quite get on the same page then it might be the best thing for you
KAYLA: Right and I would also say just like be mindful of like how you're having this conversation like if you still really care about this person tell them that and remind them that like hey this is what I'm dealing with right now but like I'm still the same person
SARAH: Yeah, and hope…
KAYLA: Hopefully they'll see that
SARAH: Hopefully too it's a relationship that's based in honesty so when you say that they will believe
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: If not you're fucked, I'm kidding
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: I said I'm kidding very fast
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Communication can always be grown
KAYLA: Another question that I feel like we've kind of touched on is how not to feel obligated to perform sex in a committed relationship when you don't want to
SARAH: Kayla, I'll throw this one to you
KAYLA: Um well, thank you
SARAH: Well, what would I know?
KAYLA: I don't fucking know. I think… man I uh I mean yeah I think this is something I guess I struggled with in the beginning of all these relationships partly because of who I am as a person but also because of my sexuality but also because of my mental health, I'll explain. There was a period and I think I talked about this in one of our episodes where we talked about how we've grown and like I think it was in one of our new year's resolution episodes actually or both of them
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I went through this period of like I would get really bad anxiety attacks surrounding like dates or like relationship stuff basically because a, I feel the need to like understand what people's expectations are and like meet them and I don't remember what letter I was on basically like my fear was these people I'm going out with expect me to have sex with them, I don't want to, but like what do I do if we get in that situation
SARAH: Right here right now on the table
KAYLA: Right, no wait no dirty, anyway
SARAH: To clarify you mean the table is dirty?
KAYLA: No, I mean having sex on the table is dirty
SARAH: Oh yeah, the table is also probably dirty and you could get…
KAYLA: My cat keeps walking on it I have to clean it first I don't want that all up in there
SARAH: And then clean it afterwards too
KAYLA: Oh, for sure
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: It'll be stinky anyway. So, I mean that's like kind of what I was going through and it was… I mean it was interesting because I never felt obligated to have sex, I was never like okay these people might expect me to have sex so I need to have sex it was always these people might expect me to have sex how do I tell them goodbye?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Was like where my anxiety was so I guess I like kind of felt that but kind of didn't. Um…
SARAH: And some people might be in situations where they do feel obligated to have sex and that is…
KAYLA: Unfortunate, like yeah…
SARAH: It's unfortunate, it’s a very delicate situation
KAYLA: Right, obviously I was lucky enough to always have partners who were like understanding and didn't make me feel like I needed to do something but yeah unfortunately that's not the case for everyone
SARAH: I mean I would love to say stand up for yourself at any cost but that's very easy for me to say like
KAYLA: And it's also sometimes like not safe
SARAH: Yeah, it's not always the right thing to do and I wish it were, I wish you didn't have to do in the first place but…
KAYLA: I think for me my question to this question would be like why do you feel obligated and like who was making you feel obligated
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I think there's like two ways to solve this, well okay so either the person you're in this relationship with is making you feel obligated, my response to that would be that's not healthy
SARAH: Educate them and if they don't change dump their ass
KAYLA: Right but in a safe way like in that situation as safely as possible talk to them, if that doesn't work remove yourself from the situation
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because that's an unhealthy abusive relationship, if gone to the extreme. if you are the person making yourself feel obligated that I think we can fix
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: With time
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: And therapy
SARAH: I was about to say and therapy
KAYLA: Not necessarily but like therapy fixes everything
SARAH: Think, but thinking and talking even if it's not like in a formal like this is my therapist
KAYLA: Right, so I think like having a conversation with your partner and being like, hey I like feel this way can you give me some reassurance that like you don't feel like I should be obligated to feel like that like can we talk about this like and then I don't like I think your partner giving you reassurance that like they don't feel like you need to do anything can probably go a long way because my guess is if I was in that situation it would probably me be thinking…. like I would be thinking…. what would I be thinking, oh I would be thinking like okay they're saying that I don't need to do this but like do they really mean it and like…
SARAH: That sounds incredibly on-brand for you
KAYLA: Yeah, completely. and so like for me what would help me is getting reassurance from my partner like no I'm not lying to you, you really don't have to do anything, like chill out.
SARAH: Yeah, if you're the partner in that situation take notes. I would also say if you're in a situation where your partner is totally cool and amazing but maybe your friends or family more likely friends but family…
KAYLA: Your mum is like excuse me
SARAH: I mean it could be like I want grandkids now, you know
KAYLA: No, yeah for sure
SARAH: Um but that's a whole other can of worms, but I would say if they're pressuring you like fuck them. I mean don't… because you're probably not comfortable with it but…
KAYLA: Metaphorically
SARAH: Metaphorically, fuck them, like if you… like try and explain things to them and if they're still dicks you don't want them in your life
KAYLA: Right, I think…
SARAH: Sometimes you can't cut people out completely because of reasons but minimize, but…
KAYLA: You can at least kind of work towards not taking their opinion so highly I guess
SARAH: Yeah, yeah
KAYLA: I think the hardest one to probably combat is like it might just be like society making you feel obligated
SARAH: Yeah, which is I think really connected to yourself making you feel obligated
KAYLA: Right because you might just be like internalizing misogyny or whatever
SARAH: Heteronormativity
KAYLA: Yes that one is I mean tougher because I think like a lot of the models we see of relationships are like people that have relationships and have sex so it might feel like in order to have a “normal relationship” you need to have sex
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: That one I think just like takes time and becoming like comfortable with yourself
SARAH: Yeah, it takes time and also just talking to people about this like communicating with partners and with friends and families about like no this is not necessary that I fuck people all the time like that's only going to help because it's going to expand the base of people who understand not just asexuality but just like the concept of heteronormativity is bad, stupid
KAYLA: I think even just having conversations with your friends of like how crazy is it that like all of this stuff is ingrained in us, there's even stuff like that has nothing to do with sex that like is ingrained in us of like this is how a relationship should go and then like anyone you meet that has been in a relationship will be like no that's stupid, so like I think even having a simple conversation of like isn't this crazy and commiserating with your friends about that you can probably go a long way to show you like you're not the only one that feels like you're not meeting society's standards because literally no one is
SARAH: For sure, do you have anything else to say on that matter because I'm going to shake a small segue here?
KAYLA: Take it away
SARAH: All right, I also as we were talking about this was thinking about people who have been in issues that as I've mentioned I have kind of been in before where it's like you think you're aro but then you're like wait or like you maybe you think you're ace but then you're like wait I think it might be a little bit more of a situation if you are aro and like you're like I didn't think I wanted to date but now I'm like yeah, I would say this is going to sound very hypocritical of me but communicate I'm so bad at communicating.
KAYLA: You sure are.
SARAH: Like I as I mentioned a couple episodes ago like in those situations where I've been like do I have a crush on you or do I just like really want to be friends with you I just like left it alone and like was like cool like I guess I'm still aro I don't know, but I will say like it can be difficult to be like questioning your sexuality is I mean it can be even worse too if the person who you're finding yourself interested in knows your aro-ace because they may not be seeing you as like a viable person they could date and so you do have to be kind of forthright with like maybe your interest and that sounds like something I would never do, but…
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: But yeah, I think…
SARAH: I would say if you really are interested just be honest and be like I'm not sure if I'm into you this way or not but I kind of want to explore it and at the very least they'll feel flattered that like they were the ones who made you question your sexuality. I don't know
KAYLA: Oh my God, that’s so terrible to say. I mean yeah I think especially in those situations like in any situation where you're like struggling with your sexuality I think it's like best to be as open about that as you feel comfortable with, with your partner because then like if you start acting weird or like… not weird
SARAH: Different
KAYLA: If you start acting different or like you're upset about something like it'll help inform them of like okay this might be why they feel uncomfortable right now or this might be why they need something from me more in this relationship, so like I mean it is only going to help benefit like the well-being of your relationship
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But of course, it's easy to say that, obviously it's harder to talk about your sexuality or your romantic orientation sometimes but…
SARAH: Right, and there are people that I know who have like kind of had that experience but I haven't really talked to them about that experience and I would definitely like to, but just kind of my understanding of how of what I would in a perfect world do in the real world I would climb in my bed and sleep
KAYLA: Yeah, that’s fair
SARAH: It's okay if you just want to climb in your bed and sleep
KAYLA: It is okay
SARAH: It's okay to feel that way
KAYLA: I feel that way every day
SARAH: All the time, do you have anything else to add?
KAYLA: I mean, no I hope this was like somewhat at least interesting
SARAH: I hope we didn’t make a fool of ourselves
KAYLA: We're like 20-year-olds who have like really no place talking about this but I feel like we had some interesting thoughts
SARAH: I did too
KAYLA: I would take all of our advice as always with a grain of salt but…
SARAH: Absolutely, yep salt everywhere. what's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Oh Jesus
SARAH: Jesus
KAYLA: I don’t know. Maybe like…
SARAH: Like have you had… like are you an ace-spec person who's had experiences with this? tell us about them?
KAYLA: Yeah, well should we do an open one? People haven't been responding to our open polls lately
SARAH: To be fair, our last open poll was bad
KAYLA: Yes. I mean we got some good responses, maybe we can just do like, as an ace person have you dated?
SARAH: Okay. As… and then for the like to non-ace-spec listeners that we have as a non-ace person have you ever dated an ace-spec person
KAYLA: There's definitely like at least one person who's not ace
SARAH: Yeah, that's why I rounded up too
KAYLA: Who has messaged us
SARAH: So…
KAYLA: It's just being like a good ally like good on you because this is miserable I'm sure
SARAH: Amazing, okay, that'll be on our Twitter. What's your juice and beef this week, you know what mine is you got to go first
KAYLA: Okay. my juice is… I mean I'm going home this weekend which is very exciting
SARAH: She's going to see me the most important person that she has ever met in her life
KAYLA: Probably, my big project at work which was another podcast, like launched and happened so that was really exciting
SARAH: Promo that damn thing
KAYLA: Should I? it seems like cheap
SARAH: Why not? I mean, people aren't going to listen unless they're interested
KAYLA: That's true, okay so it's called “inside the admissions office” it's basically like people that used to work in admissions offices at colleges like they used to like read applications and decide who got in like them giving advice on like what your college application should look like
SARAH: Yeah, so if you're a listener who's applying to college in the United States it might be helpful to you
KAYLA: Or not in the United States we have a lot of international people
SARAH: Nice, well…
KAYLA: Anyway
SARAH: Like well the colleges are in the United States, that’s what I meant
KAYLA: Yes, applying from out of the states to the states, whatever. But yeah it was really cool because my work was like, “here have this project by yourself, and go wild” so that's really cool and…
SARAH: Wait was that beef or juice?
KAYLA: Yeah, that was beef Sarah… no it was juice.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: I hate that my work gave me agency terrible and then my last juice is that just like exciting stuff for the podcast has been really cool.
SARAH: Yeah, boy got some cool stuff coming up.
KAYLA: Uh tea true.
SARAH: Tea
KAYLA: My beef is that I have to drive to the airport at 3 a.m. to…
SARAH: To see me
KAYLA: To see Sarah exclusively and then go home.
SARAH: No one else.
KAYLA: I'm never going to see her because she's the only one I'm there for and I mean it's really hot in my apartment right now.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: My cat was an asshole this morning. I don't know.
SARAH: Classic. Are you ready for my beef? I know you're ready but the listeners aren't.
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: Okay so this beef is from last week essentially and it happened and I told Kayla about it and she was like tweet about it from the pod twitter and I was like.
KAYLA: Oh, wow I totally forgot about this.
SARAH: Yeah, and I was like I want to kind of rip this company a new one on the pod and then maybe tweet about it. Like I wanted to be able to talk through it first so I waited a little bit.
KAYLA: I just remember it.
SARAH: I actually have calmed down a bit but by the end of this I probably will be angry again.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Okay so I flew to Florida last week for a vacation. I got a sunburn.
KAYLA: Shocking. That's it that's the beef.
SARAH: That's the beef. Uh actually it's basically gone. It wasn't that bad of a sunburn. Okay um I on the way there decided to watch the film Rocketman on the plane and watching that film made me want to do two things. One it made me want to hug Elton John.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Two it made me want to punch Delta Airlines. Now I like Delta when it comes to um large corporations that make a lot of money that fly planes. I mean they all suck.
KAYLA: Delta is pretty good though.
SARAH: But Delta is better.
KAYLA: But now they're not.
SARAH: But I found out a couple days after watching Rocketman because I… at the beginning it was like things have been cut out of this, and I was like yeah okay. They cut… I was like okay, they cut the sex scene I knew there was a sex scene and then it was not in the movie, and I was like okay I'm just curious I want to watch the sex scene so me…
KAYLA: And the true characteristic move of Sarah
SARAH: Looked it up and I discovered that not only did they cut the sex scene they cut a lot of gay shit out of the movie. I don't know if it was Delta who did it or if there's other company that's contracted to be like
KAYLA: Delta let it happen either way
SARAH: Yeah, and so basically they talk about gayness but anything that was shown was cut every single gay kiss was cut, um…
KAYLA: And it's a gay movie folks
SARAH: I know like including like the interracial gay kiss and I was like okay like they cut the sex scene, it was pretty tame but whatever…
KAYLA: But my thing with that is I watched the favorite on the plane and there was for sure all the gay stuff in there which I mean like I guess the whole movie was pretty gay so you like really couldn't cut that much out but like they didn't cut any of that shit out
SARAH: But here's the thing, I was like okay they cut the sex scene whatever but then I remembered that one time I was watching that um it's like a satirical parody film about the… what's that bike ride through France?
KAYLA: The Tour de France
SARAH: Yeah, that one
KAYLA: Say it in your new French accent
SARAH: Tour de France
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: Um it was like the satirical thing with uh I think um Monk Monk Andy Sandberg was in it and some other people there was straight up a dick in that and Delta showed it to me and I remember being like oh my god, I'm on a plane
KAYLA: Delta shoved it in my face
SARAH: Um and so I was like, so you're going to just show me a dick but you're not going to… you're going to cut the sex scene
KAYLA: See because like I would understand if they cut like every sex scene
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Because it's like, there's kids on the plane and they might like see it, but like they're obviously not being like equal with which sex they're cutting out
SARAH: Exactly, and like okay whatever you cut the sex scene the dick sucking scene, they trimmed it so that you had to guess that the dick was sucked
KAYLA: They trimmed his dick?
SARAH: They trimmed his dick
KAYLA: Oh boy
SARAH: But they cut every single gay kiss, so I watched a nine minute video on YouTube of just all the gay parts of Rocketman
KAYLA: Good
SARAH: And about half of them have been cut from the movie that I watched so
KAYLA: They're important
SARAH: I know and like there was so much in this movie, that I got, I understood it, because I already understood that there was gay context and I was primed to read it that way, but holy fucking shit this movie makes so much more sense with those goddamn scenes in like…
[00:50:00]
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: There was a lot of stuff that like I just assumed had happened based on context clues and but like then I found out that like oh there was an actual kiss there like they fucking made out in a closet like
KAYLA: I mean a lot of the movie is about his relationship with this other man
SARAH: Exactly
KAYLA: It's kind of hard to really understand the meaning of it when they cut out some stuff that happens that like
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: It's part of the plot kind of
SARAH: They spend more time in the movie showing the gayness rather than talking about it as it should be, I don't tell and so the fact that cut everything that was shown made it like just… it makes so much more sense knowing what I now know and I now want to re-watch it in full
KAYLA: It's also a very good movie
SARAH: It is a good movie
KAYLA: I think it was better than Bohemian Rhapsody
SARAH: Yeah, but yeah I uh it's some bullshit but they kept straight kisses in
KAYLA: Sarah was texting me this and I was fucking pissed
SARAH: Yeah, and I was like…
KAYLA: Why
SARAH: And I was like am I going crazy so I looked it up and I found some people talking about it on Twitter I'm not crazy they did cut out every single gay kiss um and then I was like… I considered like looking up stuff about Delta's LGBTQIA+ like stanzas and stuff because like people on the internet had been like yeah the Favorite they kind of showed everything, but then I decided that like I didn't care this is shitty, like I don't care if this is a… something that was overlooked or something that's like, whatever like what the fuck
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean like how in 2019 are we like censoring movies for gay content
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: It's like… it just… really
SARAH: So you know what I did on the way home out of pure protest?
KAYLA: No
SARAH: I watched Moonlight
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: But here's the thing too, I watched moonlight and I had the captions on because planes are fucking loud and because like my good headphones don't have like a plug that's like a regular plug so I had to use like an old ass pair of like shitty Apple headphones and so I was like okay I don't usually like watching stuff with captions because it distracts my ADHD dass but I needed to have them on
KAYLA: ADH Dass
SARAH: ADH Dass. and like there's a lot of swearing, there are racial slurs, not again… they're not used to slurs the n-word is used between black people I guess it's not really used as a slur but you know they're so they say it a lot there's a lot of swearing and like all of that just pops up on the captioning which like yeah of course it does that's…
KAYLA: But like a child could see that
SARAH: Right and it's like a kid could see that too, like
KAYLA: It’s fucking stupid
SARAH: Who the fuck cares? Yeah. So, there is that. My juice, I have many juices because this is me and I go crazy, ADHD who?
KAYLA: ADH Doug
SARAH: ADH Doug. Attention deficit hyperactivity Doug
KAYLA: Please that's his father
SARAH: That’s his name on twitter right now he changed, he spelled it out
KAYLA: I know but that's a funny joke and it was good
SARAH: Okay haha okay
KAYLA: Fuck you
SARAH: The impeachment of Donald Trump. my next juice George Salazar and MJ Rodrigues performing suddenly Seymour on James Corden okay I'm already obsessed like I have been obsessed with this production of Little Shop of Horrors because I love George Salazar but it is a black trans actress and a gay Asian Latino actor playing such iconic roles as Audrey and Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors and they performed it on James Corden and the performance is so fucking good, they sound amazing it… I've lost my shit I've watched it multiple times I was…
KAYLA: Is that why you were late to our business meeting is that what you were watching?
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Um and I'm just so glad that at the performance on James Corden because I really wanted to see the show but I couldn't because it was only running for like a month in California and I'm not in California yet and so it made me very happy to see it and I am happy about it. uh juice the song good bye yellow brick road by juice
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: The song conversations with my wife by John Bellion, juice heaven help me by Lizzo
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Juice interviews with both Jake Gyllenhaal and Ryan Reynolds together, juice the politician on Netflix I finished it Kayla hasn't don't spoil it, juice…
KAYLA: Even though I told Sarah to watch it and then I fell behind I'm trash it's fine. I'm a working lady what you want
SARAH: I'm only semi-employed, okay. juice my sister got me a Leia Jesus candle for my birthday
KAYLA: Then you fucking melted your lamp with…
SARAH: I did, but now I have a Leia Jesus candle and a Lin Manuel Miranda Jesus candle and their buds also not really juice but it is ADHD awareness month, it is ace awareness month because that's later this month, also it’s my birthday this month so be aware of me, thank you
KAYLA: Sarah, I think you actually tweeted a tweet that was like exactly that from our pod Twitter last year
SARAH: Good, actually that sounds familiar
KAYLA: Where you were like, “be aware of me”
SARAH: Be aware of me, just be aware I exist
KAYLA: Someone find us that please
SARAH: Okay, also more juice, the concept of taking love songs and interpreting them like a hundred percent platonically it works a little bit less with like love in this club and a little bit more on like every Ben Platt song but I’m into it
KAYLA: Oh, you should listen to Rex Orange County
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: He has good one, yeah you do that
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: You do that
SARAH: @soundsfakepod everywhere. I’ve finished… I got through all my juices
KAYLA: You left a juice out
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: It's me
SARAH: Kayla's juice
KAYLA: No
SARAH: I totally…
KAYLA: I’m coming to visit you exclusively
SARAH: Yeah, just for me.
KAYLA: And nobody else
SARAH: I totally should have said the song juice by Lizzo
KAYLA: Oh, that's so good
SARAH: Anyway, Kayla is juice
KAYLA: Thank you
SARAH: Okay, @soundsfakepod everywhere, if you want to find us on social media, if you want to find that tweet that I just apparently tweeted last year and also talked about right now
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Go for it. We also have a Patreon if you want to support us financially, our $2 patrons are Keith McBlaine, Roxanne, Aliceisinspace, anonymous, Mariah Walter, Jonathan, Christopher T Verdeary Patrick Jackson, Andrew Yang, Nini, Courtney Jones. our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Astritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Perry Fiero, Dee, Megan Rowell, Quinn Pollock, Emily Collins, Tim, Ryan Lutcieti, book Marvel and changeling MX who is the color purple not like the book or the musical like the color purple
KAYLA: But you haven't heard that how do you know?
SARAH: Or the movie. What?
KAYLA: Because changeling said that you know, you were… purple
SARAH: I'm purple and you're blue
KAYLA: Based on our voices but you've never heard their voice how do you know that they're purple?
SARAH: That's just how I'm pronouncing their name this week
KAYLA: Oh okay. I'm pronouncing it…
SARAH: I’m so sorry changeling
KAYLA: I’m not
SARAH: Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyuncleKevin @Tessa_M_K, Arcness who’d likes to promote Trevor project, Benjamin Ibbara who'd like to promote tabletop games, anonymous would like to promote Halloween spoopy, Sarah McCoy who would like to promote… oh shit, Sarah McCoy who would like to promote podcasts from a planet weird and my aunt Jeannie who's now a $10 patron…
KAYLA: Jeannie
SARAH: Hi Jeannie, her dog Bucky is so cute
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: That's not what she's promoting though, she's promoting Christopher's Haven which is… okay
KAYLA: It's okay
SARAH: No, it’s better than okay, it's the mission of Christopher's Haven, I'm just reading this, is to have… is to make a tangible difference in the day-to-day lives of children and their families by creating and operating a home away from home for children being treated for cancer at Boston's Mass General Hospital for children and the Dana bar children's barber hostage… I can't read but Chris Evans the man the myth the Captain America America's ass he's an official ambassador and he often spends time there visiting the kids and their families and it's cool and my aunt would like to promote it, I struggled speaking there, but we did our it. our $15… what?
KAYLA: I was like, did you do all of them, but keep going
SARAH: Our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White, NathanielJwhitedesigns.com, my mom Julie who would like to promote free mom hugs, Sarah Jones who'd like…. is @eternallolly everywhere, eternal lolly hello, and dragonfly who I have decided this week is going to promote a good time, just having one
KAYLA: TM?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Thanks for listening tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears, live and in person, not live but in person
KAYLA: But not really because you'll still be hearing us through headphones or a car
SARAH: True
KAYLA: Or a speaker
SARAH: True
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]