Ep 51: Being Heteroromantic Asexual feat. A Friend
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
BECCA: And hey, I’m Becca.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Non-aro ace people.
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod. Before anyone complains, this episode was pre-recorded. So by now, you're probably used to us talking with the mics, but we don't have the mics today, so sorry.
KAYLA: Suck it up. This is how it has been for a year anyway.
SARAH: Yep.
KAYLA: It's a nice throwback.
SARAH: Yeah, just a reminder of how far we've come, you know?
KAYLA: Wow. Okay.
SARAH: More importantly however, we have guest today on the podcast today. Hi Becca.
BECCA: Hi.
KAYLA: Yay.
SARAH: Becca, tell us a bit about yourself and your existence in this ace community.
BECCA: Oh, man. Well I'm a Sagittarius –
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: Wow.
BECCA: I am asexual, but heteroromantic.
SARAH: What a fun time.
KAYLA: So Becca goes to school with us.
SARAH: She does.
KAYLA: That's how we know Becca.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: We do theater with Becca –
SARAH: And the Becca joined my major because she was like, I need to spend more time with Sarah.
BECCA: Of course.
SARAH: That's exactly what it was, definitely.
BECCA: Yeah.
SARAH: We wanted to have Becca on for a while because I am both aro and ace, and Kayla is neither aro nor ace.
KAYLA: I'm just straight.
SARAH: Yeah. And so we wanted to have Becca on because she has a kind of a different perspective on things, because of the world in which she lives. So I guess if we want to just dive right in, you already mentioned that you're heteroromantic, asexual.
BECCA: Yep.
SARAH: What do you feel like is a common misconception that people have about that? Are there any?
BECCA: I mean, people assume that if you like boys or like the opposite gender, that you automatically just want to have sex with them, which is definitely not true for me. And people often assume, especially other members of the LGBT community, that if you like the opposite gender that you don't belong in the LGBT community. So I've had some people tell me that because I'm heteroromantic that I don't belong in LGBT spaces, and that can be really frustrating.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah. We've definitely run into that before.
SARAH: Yeah. So I guess, in that vein, do you feel like – Do you see yourself as a part of the LGBTQIA+ community? Do you feel welcome in that community?
BECCA: For the most part, yeah. I mean, because I'm definitely not 100% straight. So I feel like I don't quite belong in the straight community and I feel like I fit in more with the LGBT+ community, but at the same time I'm in that kind of gray area.
SARAH: Yeah. I feel like that's a common feeling for people under the ace umbrella.
KAYLA: And we've talked about how I feel like that a lot, because I am straight, like I'm heteroromantic, but I'm also demi. And so I don't quite fit in the straight spot where everyone's having sex all the time, specially in college, where everyone's constantly hooking up. So I don't fit in there, but then I go to the queer community and I'm like, well, I still – I'm a girl who likes guys. So it's kind of like this weird place of you don't fully fit in –
BECCA: Yeah.
KAYLA: Either place.
SARAH: Yeah. I mean, because I feel like for a lot of ace people, coming out is kind of a weird thing. Did you ever have to actually come out to people, or did you just live your life?
BECCA: I mean, I guess I didn't – This is going to be a backstory, but I didn't really know what asexuality was for a long time. I kind of just assumed that I was just living my life the way I did, and then I found out like, hey, there are people that aren't sexually attracted to people. I'm like, whoa, hey look, it's me. And so I kind of just lived under figuring out what I was for a while. And then once I was like, yup, okay, this fits, I told some of my friends and they were all like, yeah, that's chill, that's cool.
SARAH: And how old were you when that happened?
BECCA: Probably about 18.
SARAH: Okay.
BECCA: And so I came out to a few people, but it's not really a huge deal for me coming out, because I still kind of fall into that heteroromantic. And so people are generally a little more accepting of it, because I still like the opposite gender and it's not that big of a deal to them.
SARAH: Right. So you think it's less of a big deal to other people because you're heteroromantic, or at least less of a big deal to straight people?
BECCA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay.
BECCA: I feel like people might have a harder time accepting it if I was like homoromantic, because I know that people who are homosexual have a lot of difficulty with coming out sometimes. And I feel like I had it a lot easier because I'm heteroromantic.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Do you think it is also kind of easier because I mean, for Sarah, she doesn't date because she's aromantic also. And so you can kind of look at her lifestyle and be like, well, why isn't she dating? But for you and other people that are not aro but ace, is it easier to kind of hide it, or kind of blend in do you think, because you're going along with the normative society thing of like, I still like people, that kind of thing?
BECCA: I think a little bit. Yeah. But at the same time, I don't really date people because a lot of people don't understand that relationships aren't all about sex.
SARAH: Especially at this point in our lives when we're in college.
BECCA: Yeah. And so I've been on maybe like two dates in my whole life because I don't click with other people that just want to hook up. And so I get some weird reactions when I'm like, oh yeah, I don't really date people or whatever, and they're like, but you like boys, how do you not date? So, I mean, it's a little bit easier to hide because I can talk with my friends about like crushes and all that stuff, but yeah at the same time, it's like, why aren't you dating people?
SARAH: Yeah. Yeah. That's understandable. Yeah, I guess on the vein of dating, as you mentioned, it's kind of harder to do that when you're ace, is that something that – On the few dates you have been on, is that something that you brought up or is it just something that you could kind of tell from the vibe of the other person?
BECCA: Yeah. It's not something that I really bring up. I mean, one of the people that I've been on a date with knew that I was ace, and the other one did not, but the dates weren't 100% for other reasons. It's not something that I bring up a lot.
SARAH: Right.
BECCA: But yeah, I could just tell that it wasn't going to work.
SARAH: Right. If you were theoretically dating someone, and they didn't already know, can you imagine at what point you might want to bring it up, or would it kind of just be case-by-case?
BECCA: I feel like it's more of a case-by-case kind of thing because it's difficult to be in the middle of a relationship and kind of just throw it at them and be like, hey, just so you know, I don't really want to have sex with you. And them being like, oh, well I've invested all my time in this and this isn't what I want. And so I feel like it's kind of a case-by-case thing.
SARAH: And I feel like some people are like, first date they want to go home with someone. And some people it's like, I don't even want to have sex with someone till we've been together for three months. So there's kind of like, it depends.
BECCA: I'd just rather eat pizza.
SARAH: Big, big mood. Do you see yourself in the future having a long-term relationship, whether that's marriage or whether that's just having like a partner for a long time?
BECCA: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely hope so because I love being around people and that connection with people is what I really thrive on, and so I really want a long-term relationship. It's just been difficult so far to find somebody who fits in.
SARAH: Right. Because I imagine being ace is a barrier to a lot of relationships because a lot of people do value sex, and that's kind of where it gets complicated I would imagine because it's like, you can't blame them necessarily for wanting sex, but also it's like well, me, don't you love me?
BECCA: Yeah. To put in a few awkward situations in which I thought a guy was interested in me, and then when we finally hung out, they're like, hey, come to bed with me. And I was like, I'm going to not do that. Okay.
(10:00)
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I guess, what are your thoughts on people – Because like Sarah said, it's like, you can't blame people for not wanting to be with someone if sex is important to them. But it's just this weird situation where it's like, okay, it's not your fault that you want to have sex in a relationship, but's not my fault, because this is my sexual orientation. But you feel like – I feel like you'd almost want to blame someone.
SARAH: Yeah. I don't know because I can get – I feel like it just kind of turns into this blame game, to be honest. That person could end up resenting your sexuality and you could end up resenting them for being like, well, I'm not important enough to you for you to make that sacrifice. But then they might be like, well, I'm not important enough to you to make that sacrifice? And then there's just so much misunderstanding about what it all is and what it all means. I can imagine that can get very complicated.
BECCA: It's a fun time. Fun world out there.
SARAH: So do you... So if you were in a long-term relationship, do you see yourself in a relationship with someone else who's also ace?
BECCA: I mean that would be cool. That would be ideal, an ideal situation. I'm definitely okay with being in a relationship with someone who isn't ace, but understands that it's not the highest priority for me to be having sex every day. I'd be willing maybe in the future to have sex with somebody, if it makes them happy and I am in love with them and everything, but I really don't want to be making that sacrifice constantly. So it needs to – I feel like if I am in a relationship with somebody, we need to both have that compromise and meet in the middle.
SARAH: That's what relationships are, kids. A lot of compromise. But with that said, also you would be willing to do that. If there are people out there who would not be willing to do, that because of their sexuality or because of what they're comfortable with, don't. Don't, I'm telling you right now don't, unless you feel comfortable with it. In which case, yeah girl, do what you want.
BECCA: That is the hard thing though about asexuality is I think most people assume you just don't have sex. And so –
SARAH: They assume it's one size fits all, and it's not.
KAYLA: Right. But also it's like, okay, if you have – If you're ace and you have sex with one person once, all of a sudden –
BECCA: Are you really ace?
KAYLA: That's who you are now. And like, oh, you must be okay having sex all the time then, like everyone else. And it's like, well that's not –
SARAH: Not how it works.
KAYLA: How anything works.
SARAH: Yeah. And I do think we've mentioned this before, but because there is so much complexity in terms of how ace umbrella identities present themselves in different people, it's oftentimes very hard for people on the outside to understand that – Because when you think of, when a person from the outside thinks of gay people, they’re just like, okay, people who are romantically and sexually interested in people of the same gender, that's it.
And of course there's going to be variety in there of how much people like to have sex or whatever. But there's just so many different things going on under the ace umbrella that people just have a hard time grasping that there are so many different experiences to be had in that little world, which is no good. Which is why you got to educate them, kids.
I mean, this is kind of on that same vein, but is there something that you wish more people knew about your orientation?
BECCA: I guess that not all ace people are the same. I know probably about five different ace people, which is like, a lot.
SARAH: It’s our theater group.
KAYLA: Our theater group has –
SARAH: So many.
KAYLA: An unproportional amount of ace people.
SARAH: People who I know in real life who are ace, only one of them is not in our theater group, so –
KAYLA: Do I know them?
SARAH: Yeah.
BECCA: So everyone has a different experience, and not all ace people are going to be comfortable with the same things. And it's really important not to just blanket statement like, oh, hey, all ace people do X, Y, and Z, and not A, B and Z.
SARAH: I concur. But honestly, I feel like that's especially true of the ace community, but I feel like we really should be thinking about everyone that way. And I know that it's hard to “imagine people complexly" because you don't want to, you want to put them in boxes. But guys, humans are complex things. Remember that.
I'm just shaking my head. I know you can't see me.
KAYLA: That's also why we wanted to have more guests now, in year two. Do you want me to call this season two for us?
SARAH: Season two. Let's call it season two.
KAYLA: Year two, season two.
SARAH: Season two.
KAYLA: We have year-long seasons?
SARAH: Oh yeah.
KAYLA: It's because me and Sarah have very specific experiences, and we know a lot of you are ace but not aro, and a lot of the stuff we talk about has to do with being aro. And so, we don't want you to think that if your experience isn't like me and Sarah's, that that's off or something, because we bring in people like Becca, whose experience is wildly different than Sarah and I have ever dealt with.
SARAH: On that vein, I cannot speak for the entire community. And that's something that I feel like often ace people are asked to do, because most people don't know the number of ace people that we know. So you might be the only ace person they've ever met, and so you're kind of expected to speak for the entire community, and that is something that I want to do a whole episode about. But it's something that, it's difficult, and also it shouldn't be expected of you, but it is. And so then you're just like, well, yeah.
Is there one thing that you really enjoy about your sexuality? Is there something that you are like, I'm glad this is a part of who I am?
BECCA: I mean, I'm definitely glad it's a part of who I am. I don't know if there's one thing in particular. I mean, lots of people when I talk to them about being ace, they're like, oh my gosh, you're so lucky.
ALL: (laugh)
BECCA: You don't have to worry about all the things that I have to worry about. You must not get distracted so easily.
KAYLA: Do people get – Okay, first of all, wait. Do people get distracted easily?
SARAH: Sounds fake, but okay.
KAYLA: Is that a thing?
SARAH: By sex, I guess.
BECCA: They're like, oh my gosh, you must not be thinking about this all the time.
SARAH: Do people think about it?
KAYLA: Wait, wait.
SARAH: This is the most ace group of people.
ALL: (laughing)
KAYLA: Wait. Hold on, what?
BECCA: I know. I know. But I get the thing like, oh my gosh, you're so lucky. I get that all the time.
SARAH: So strange. See, the interesting thing is that I don't get that.
KAYLA: I think I would almost say that to you more. If I was going to be a person that said that, I'd say it to Sarah over Becca.
BECCA: I don't know.
KAYLA: Personally.
SARAH: That's so interesting.
BECCA: I'm the only ace person that a lot of my friends know, so they're like, oh my gosh, you must have so much free time. And I'm like –
KAYLA: That's the weird thing though, is because you're not aro, right? So it's not like you have that much more free time –
SARAH: Like, how much time do you spend having sex? God.
KAYLA: Because you're not taking out the whole relationship bit,, for you. You don't date a lot, but it's like you still like people and it takes time to think about people you like. How much time does it take to have sex or pursue it? Does it really take that much more time than dating?
BECCA: I guess.
SARAH: I would say dating would take a lot more time than just the act of having sex.
KAYLA: I think I would agree.
BECCA: Yeah. I mean, I can get why people say that, but also there's baggage that comes with it.
KAYLA: Well, that's my thing, is I saw a tweet just today of someone being like, “Everyday I wish I would just wake up 100% gay," and on one hand it was a girl that said that. And on one hand, I was like same because men suck. But also the problem with saying things like that, is like, that's like asking to have your privilege taken away, just so this one part of your life is easier.
And so it's like, sure, if you're ace you'll either get distracted [less] or whatever happens with people, but also then you face all these problems like me and Becca face of being in between two communities, or constantly being asked to speak for an entire community of people. And it's like, do you really want that? Because that's also a waste of my time too.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: But also I think it's just, it has to do with a lot of the way people view asexuality, because there are a lot of people in the world, and we've discussed this before, who they don't view asexuality or people who are under the ace umbrella as people who are in any way, oppressed or in any way disadvantaged. And I feel like that when people say like, oh, you're so lucky, it kind of reflects that. Not necessarily ill-intentioned, but definitely a misunderstanding, or an ignorance of the baggage that does come with it, and the stuff that you do have to deal with and like, no, it's not the same as what gay people might experience or what other people might experience, but –
(20:00)
KAYLA: It's there.
SARAH: It's there. Yeah.
KAYLA: For sure.
SARAH: And they might not recognize that.
BECCA: Fun story is that a lot of the time when I tell some people that I'm ace, especially like some old roommates and they would get really drunk, they would tell me, you're not really ace, you just haven't found the right boy.
SARAH AND KAYLA: Ohhh.
BECCA: I used to feel like that until I had my first boyfriend and I'm like, oh, oh honey.
SARAH: Yeah. I've been lucky enough to avoid that one, but wow, I'm sorry.
BECCA: It's happened quite a few times.
KAYLA: That's more like the ones you hear people talk about to having heard that, and you just hope that not as many people are told that as it seems, but no, people – It happens.
SARAH: Yeah. What would you say back to that? Or you would just be like, oh, you're drunk, I don't want to deal with this?
BECCA: I'm like, that's what you can think, but I'm pretty sure I know myself. And they're drunk, they don't remember the next morning, but –
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That's shady though, because you know when people are drunk, they say what they actually think.
BECCA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So then you're like, Oh, you're actually a shitty person.
SARAH: Are you still friends with these people, or have you educated them better, or –
BECCA: One of them, I've kind of broken off, one or two of them I've broken off with, because of other things that have happened. And then two other people I'm still friends with. So it's half and half. Some people feel bad about it and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. And you're like, okay, I don't know whether I believe you or not, but alright.
SARAH: It's also people who they think they're helping you and they're not, or they think – It's like when I've had people tell me when they're drunk at a party and I'm sober, they're like, oh my God, I can't believe you're doing this sober.
BECCA: Oh my God, yeah.
KAYLA: Because you don’t drink either?
BECCA: I also don’t drink.
SARAH: So it's like, what do you want me to say to that?
KAYLA: Well, it's like people feel bad for you, they're like –
SARAH: But I think they also, in some ways feel guilty about themselves.
KAYLA: Oh, yeah. Drunk people always feel – Okay, I can say as someone that does drink, I always feel bad when I'm drunk and I know I'm being obnoxious, and there's someone sober with me. I do always feel guilty, because I know I'm being annoying right now.
SARAH: But you're annoying when you're sober too, so that's okay.
KAYLA: That’s fair.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: For the ace perspective, it's almost like they're saying that to be like, oh, you must be sad. I'm going to make you feel better by saying that. I used to feel like that, like they're pitying you, like it's something inherently bad to not want to have sex. They feel bad for you and it's like, it is not all that.
SARAH: Can you stop? There's a reason I don't want to have sex. I don't know what it is, but it is.
BECCA: It’s there.
SARAH: So just let me do that, because that's what I want.
BECCA: Right.
SARAH: Yeah, I feel like it definitely is pretty similar to the not drinking thing, is people just like, they don't get it. And obviously not drinking is not an orientation, it's not like I'm like, I'm not attracted to alcohol. But when people are like, oh, you're in college and you don't drink, and it's not because you used to have a drinking problem and are now sober, it's just because you don't want to. And I'm like, yeah.
KAYLA: I do have people – Because I'll tell people like, yeah, a lot of my friends don't drink, because a lot of my friends don't drink, and they're like, why? Why don't they drink? They need a reason, and I'm like, I don't know, they just don't want to, and people are like, why don't they want to? And I'm like, I don't know, they just don't feel the urge to. I don't know.
SARAH: I've had people kind of probe for an answer on that, and I don't have a really super specific answer that people are happy with.
KAYLA: Because some people are like, oh, alcoholism runs in my family, so I don't – I've seen bad things happen, which is totally valid. But if it's like, if you don't have some dramatic reason like that, then it's like, oh, well.
BECCA: And it's like the same thing when I tell people, oh, I don't like the taste of alcohol, they're like, oh you just haven't found the right drink yet.
KAYLA: Well, that's the same thing as you haven't found the right guy yet. [crosstalk].
BECCA: Exactly.
SARAH Or they're like, well, if you just drink it enough, you'll get used to it, and you'll learn to like it. And I'm like, not true of alcohol. I mean, maybe it's true of alcohol, maybe you just like –
KAYLA: It's more true of alcohol than it is about sex.
SARAH: It's definitely more true of alcohol than it is about people.
KAYLA: I can tell you that is – You can learn to like alcohol, I don't think you can learn to like sex.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I don't think it works like that.
SARAH: I think you can learn to tolerate it, is as far as it goes.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's not like I like the taste of when I can taste alcohol. I've learned to tolerate alcohol, but it doesn't taste good. I don't think I could learn to tolerate liking sex if I didn't like it, because that's not something you tolerate.
SARAH: Right. You shouldn't just be tolerating sex. If that's the situation you're in, you need to reevaluate.
KAYLA: For sure.
SARAH: Have you ever had people ask you why, if they find out that you're ace?
BECCA: Kind of. It's mostly when I tell people that I'm ace, and they're like, oh my God, what is that?
SARAH: What are you?
BECCA: Yeah. I explain it, and they're like, oh, why do you think you feel that way? And I was like, that’s like asking –
SARAH: Why are people gay?
KAYLA: Why do you think you feel gay? It's like...
SARAH: Why do you think feel gay?
KAYLA: Why do you feel straight? I don't know.
BECCA: Or like, I get the, how do you know you're ace if you've never had sex with somebody? I'm like, well, how do you know you're straight if you’ve never had sex with someone of the same gender?
SARAH: People are stupid.
BECCA: Yeah.
SARAH: They fail to see the hypocrisy in what they're saying, and it's just like – And then you point it out and they're like, well, because being straight is normal. And then I'm like, so you're homophobic, thanks for letting me know.
BECCA: Tell me more.
KAYLA: I’m taking a sexual orientation in the media class, and in our textbook, there was this part where it was a bunch of questions like that. Like, well, how old were you when you found out you were straight? And like, how did your parents react? And the divorce rate among lesbian women is much lower than straight people, so how can you morally get married knowing that?
These are questions you'd never ask a straight person because they don't make sense, because they also don't make sense to ask anyone else.
SARAH: Yeah. Exactly. Are there things – Because this pod is called Sounds Fake But Okay, are there things about the straight dating, the heterosexual dating world, or just even the sexual in general world, that sounds fake to you?
BECCA: Okay. So it sounds weird, but flirting?
SARAH: Yeah.
BECCA: How?
SARAH: I don't know.
BECCA: Apparently people just know how to flirt?
SARAH: Yeah.
BECCA: What?
SARAH: Yeah. It's just like to me, that's just like, you're being friendly, and that's why I always accidentally flirt with people.
BECCA: I've been told that I am very flirty and I am like, how?
SARAH: I feel it's a really common ace experience because we don't realize, we're just – Especially because we're Midwesterners, we're just, we're all friendly people. And so it's especially if you leave the Midwest, and you go somewhere else
BECCA: Oh, goodness.
SARAH: This isn't relevant to the podcast, but my sister yesterday, she was talking to this girl who was in one of her classes, who was from California, went to undergrad in California. This is her first time, she's in grad school now, this is her first time living anywhere else. And she was at Meijer or something, which is kind of a grocery store, and –
KAYLA: Not kind of a grocery store, it's the grocery store.
BECCA: Well, it's a grocery store, but it's also like kind of –
KAYLA: It has everything.
BECCA: It’s a superstore.
KAYLA: The clothes there are actually pretty good.
SARAH: Right, it's a high class Walmart, in some ways.
BECCA: Yeah. Anyway it's a very Midwest store, Michigan specific store. But there was a guy who was in the parking lot who had just finished his cart, he had just loaded his car. And he was like, hey, do you want to take my cart? She was going in and she was like, oh no, it's okay. And he was like, I mean, I'm just getting rid of it, you can take it. And she was concerned and scared, and then she kept saying no, and he was like, all right, fine, I'll just put it back.
So he puts it in the cart return, and only afterwards did she realize he was being completely genuine, and he was just trying to be nice and give her his cart. And she just automatically jumped to, what did he do to this cart? Because apparently she said the last time that I a run-in with someone with a cart, they were just ramming it into my back because I was walking too slow.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: This makes me want to never live anywhere but the Midwest.
SARAH: Yeah, after living in California for three months, I'm just like, wow, we're so great in the Midwest.
KAYLA: Yeah. So nice.
SARAH: Anyway off topic. What were we talking about?
BECCA: We were talking about flirting.
SARAH: Oh, yeah, flirting. I'm just trying to be nice and it's like, well then that's also the question of, okay, if you're not straight, if you're – I've actually seen a lot of tweets about this, where it's gay women complementing other women, and then being like, oh my god thank you so much, you're such a good friend. And they're like, I'm trying to fuck you. I'm flirting with you and you're taking it as just a compliment from a friend.
(30:00)
SARAH: Oh man. Yeah.
BECCA: Yeah. Because just I don't know, girls supporting girls was a huge thing and I tell people, oh my god, I love your shoes, oh my gosh no, your eyes are so pretty, and I mean it in a completely just genuine, just nice way.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't think, if any girl – Because girls compliment each other all the time. So I don't know if a girl ever told me something like that, I don't think I'd ever take it as flirting. I'd be like, aw.
SARAH: I probably wouldn't unless I was given some other indication.
KAYLA: Yeah, unless they were being extra flirtatious.
SARAH: But then if a guy said that I would be –
KAYLA AND SARAH: Scared.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: Men scare me, men are scary.
SARAH: I mean partially because the whole, don't abuse me thing, but also just because I'm aromantic, I don't want any advances of any type and from a girl, I'm not assuming it's an advance, whereas from a guy I usually am.
KAYLA: That's kind of fucked up though.
SARAH: Yeah. It is fucked up, but it's just the way my brain –
KAYLA: It’s just the way we’re raised. (pause) Fuck.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: That’s fucked up.
BECCA: I know.
BECCA: A lot of the times I can't even tell when guys are flirting with me.
KAYLA: Put girls into the mix and you’re like, whoa, what the fuck?
BECCA: My mom has had to tell me that guys are flirting with me.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: Oh, my god, that's when you know it’s bad.
BECCA: I'm so clueless.
SARAH: The ace experience.
BECCA: I am so clueless.
KAYLA: That’s so funny.
SARAH: That is really funny. It's a struggle. It's a struggle. But then I don't know if you've had this experience, but I've had the experience where once I've realized that I was accidentally flirting with people, I'm now afraid that I'm accidentally flirting with everyone.
BECCA: Oh yeah.
SARAH: And then I'm like, is this person actually flirting with me? Or am I just flattering myself? (laughs) Am I just thinking they are because I'm afraid they might do.
KAYLA: Oh, I do that all the time. I'm like, am I friends with this guy? Because it feels very egotistical to just assume that everyone is flirting with you.
SARAH: Yeah, it does.
KAYLA: And then you're like, ooh, I'm so great, every guy likes me.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: And then you're like, but dude, what?
SARAH: Yeah. I'm just trying to protect myself.
KAYLA: So you said you like first heard about asexuality when you were 18?
BECCA: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
KAYLA: Was it – I feel like [for] a lot of people, it's online.
BECCA: Oh yeah.
KAYLA: Was it online?
BECCA: It was online. Yeah. I think it was probably through Tumblr or something.
SARAH: When you were first questioning/discovering your identity, was that something that was difficult for you? Or was it just like, oh, this makes sense.
BECCA: It was definitely the moment of, oh my gosh, this is real. I'm like, I'm not crazy, this totally makes sense to me. And it was that moment of clarity of, wow, there's a word for this.
SARAH: Right. Did you feel like you latched onto the word asexual right away or was there a process to get to that point?
BECCA: It was more of a process because when I first saw asexual, it was always related with –
SARAH: Science
BECCA: Asexual, but also aromantic.
SARAH: Oh yeah. You're right.
KAYLA: Right.
BECCA: So I'm like, but I still like boys –
SARAH: Right.
BECCA: Can I be asexual if I still like boys?
SARAH: Oh, no.
BECCA: It took a while for that to come together.
SARAH: Sorry that, oh no, it was unrelated to what Becca was saying. I forgot I was wearing mascara, and I was just itching my eye. Anyway.
ALL: (laugh)
BECCA: Oh, yeah. So it was kind of that realization like, oh hey, look. What I'm feeling is valid. But I've also gotten a lot from other people like, but it's just a label, what happens if you change your mind later?
SARAH: Then you change your label.
BECCA: Then I'm like, oh, my God then I just change my mind, and I'm like, well, I'm not this anymore, that's fine.
SARAH: Right. It's like, if you're in a relationship for a really long time, and then it just stopped working, you change your label from in a relationship to not in a relationship.
KAYLA: Right?
SARAH: That's just how it goes.
BECCA: People are so concerned that once you attach yourself to a label that, oh my God it's forever, you can't change it. And they worry about getting too attached to the label that when you do change – It's always, when you change your mind, not if you change your mind. When you change your mind, can you let go of the label? It's like –
SARAH: So they're concerned that you're taking on this label, because they expect that you will change it at some point?
BECCA: Pretty much. That's the only reason why they're concerned. Because they feel like I'm not really ace, you just haven't found the right person, or you'll grow out of it, you're a late bloomer.
ALL: (laugh)
BECCA: Yeah. And that can be frustrating.
SARAH: When people say that to you, when they're like, oh, you're going to change your mind. Do you feel as though it's because they don't think asexuality exists as a whole as an orientation, or if they're afraid of you identifying with that, they don't want you particularly to?
BECCA: I think it's because I'm also heteroromantic.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. Okay.
BECCA: And I think that they're like, well you like boys, you can't be asexual.
SARAH: How else are you going to have children?
BECCA: Right. And so I don't think it's necessarily that they're afraid of me identifying with it or whatever, I think it's just, they see that part of me is more like them. And they want me to be 100% like them, and that's not how I roll.
SARAH: Right. Not how Becca rolls.
KAYLA: But I think people – I've had to educate so many people on the different types of attraction, sexual versus romantic. To so many people, I think they think they're automatically linked and one comes and then the other comes, and they are a little package deal that people do not understand that they can be very separate.
BECCA: Right.
KAYLA: And they don't always come together and people just have a very hard time, even just – The amount of people had to be like, no they're different, I can be romantically attracted to someone and not sexually attracted to them, they don't have to come at the same time. People just have a very hard time getting that through their heads.
SARAH: Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like the people who are telling you that are mostly people of older generations, or people of our generations? Do you even tell people of older generations?
BECCA: I told my parents, because I'm really close with my parents. And my mom was like, oh, okay, that's fine. Her main concern was, do you still want to have kids? And I was like, yeah, I do. I love kids, I want to be a mom one day. And she was like, okay, that's chill, that's fine.
SARAH: I just want a grandkid, that's fine.
BECCA: My dad had a little bit harder time understanding. He's like, oh well, what happens if you change your mind? kind of a thing. And eventually he came around to it, so it's fine. But other people of older generations, I tend to not to, if I can fly under the radar, then I will.
SARAH: Yeah. That is part of the thing with being ace, is that you usually can get away with avoiding telling people who you aren't close to.
So you do want kids?
BECCA: Yeah.
SARAH: Would you just be like, I'm going to go the adoption route, I'm going to – Do you have any idea of how you'd want to play that?
BECCA: I mean, I'd love to have biological children. And if for whatever reason that doesn't work out, I'm totally fine with adopting. I'm not dead set on one option or another, so I'm open to all possibilities there. I'm not ready to have kids right now (laughs) so it's not a huge concern for me at the moment.
SARAH: But there definitely are ace umbrella people do want kids, and I am not one of them, but again, I don't have the singular ace experience. Becca has a different experience, Kayla has a different experience. At world, just a reminder.
KAYLA: I feel like the constant question is, if you're ace and you want to have kids, how would you? And it's like, it's not like ace people can't have sex.
BECCA: Right.
KAYLA: You can still do it if you want to, it's the attraction that isn't there. Right?
BECCA: I'm allowed to have sex, guys. Wow.
SARAH: Whoa.
BECCA: I know it's shocking, but I'm allowed to do what I want.
KAYLA: That’s definitely a confusion is around sex positive asexuality that people just...
SARAH: Or even just sex neutral. People who are like, I would, if I was in a situation.
KAYLA: Right. Well, it's the desire versus attraction, my textbook for my Queer Media class. Asexual was in it, which I was very excited about, because I was worried the class would be exclusionist, and I was very scared of the class. So it was in the book and a list of a bunch of sexual orientation definitions, but they said it's a lack of sexual desire. And I was like, that –
SARAH: That is wrong.
(40:00)
KAYLA: Isn't true, because I could have no sexual attraction, but still desire to have sex. The desire and the attraction thing, I think is hard for people to also parse out.
SARAH: Because a lot of people when you first talk about asexuality and you explain it, they jumped to celibacy, and it’s like, that's not it though, that's different. People who are celibate often still have attraction or even desire, it's just they choose not to act on it.
SARAH: What a world we live in. Is there anything else you want to say about your world?
BECCA: Oh, my gosh. It's pretty cool. Pretty happy. I don't know, I think we've talked about a lot.
SARAH: We sure have.
KAYLA: Do you have any advice for people that are maybe younger or still in the questioning process, or aren't as accepting of themselves as you are?
BECCA: Oh man. Definitely reach out to the community, and find other people that have that experience and talk with them. Because even if you're not accepting of yourself, you can find somebody who is accepting of themselves, and they can help you talk through it. And if you end up deciding that you're not ace, well, you have a better understanding of the ace community anyway. It's not like you've lost anything.
KAYLA: Exactly.
BECCA: And –
SARAH: And maybe you have some friends now.
BECCA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah.
BECCA: Friends are always great.
BECCA: Yeah. And we live in a golden age of internet communication, you don't necessarily have to find ace people that you know in real life, although obviously Becca and I both have. There's a whole world out there.
KAYLA: The Tumblr community, especially. There are several Discords you can join and just meet people and talk, they're out there if you want to find them.
SARAH: Or even just hop on AVEN and go from there.
KAYLA: Or we're here.
SARAH: We are here. So, then what's our poll for this week? All right, kids, we have, it's not quite a poll, we have a short answer.
KAYLA: Short answer for your response essay questions.
SARAH: Within 280 characters or less.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: Or do a thread I guess, I don’t care.
SARAH: Or do a thread, or email us. Okay, well what is the short answer.
KAYLA: So it is what is the most annoying thing that someone has said to you about being ace or being aro-ace?
SARAH: Or about just your sexuality, if you’re not even –
KAYLA: Your sexuality, so like Becca's of people telling her, you're not really ace. What is the most annoying thing someone has ever said to you?
SARAH: I'm trying to think what mine is. I think the most annoying thing someone has said to me was, you don't belong in LGBTQ community.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: We love it. Speaking of just things that make us sad, Kayla, what's your beef of the week?
KAYLA: My beef of the week is – I think my week for the week is people who are given responsibility, and then they're just like, I'm good. And I'm like, but you were given this job, are you in charge of things? And then they're like, no.
SARAH: Especially if they asked for that job.
KAYLA: I know they're like, I want this job, I'm going to do a really good job –
SARAH: I’m running for this job.
KAYLA: And then you're like, cool, I'll give it to you, you're hired. And then they're like –
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: I'm good.
BECCA: But what if I just didn't?
KAYLA: And I’m like, well why are you here?
SARAH: The other option is I couldn't, I could just not do that.
KAYLA: So that's my beef of the week, I guess.
SARAH: Good.
KAYLA: That's my beef of – I have had that for years.
SARAH: Beef of the life.
KAYLA: Just thought of it, is all.
SARAH: Becca, do you have a beef of the week or should I go first?
BECCA: I mean, I can go.
SARAH: All right.
BECCA: With school starting, I think I'm going to do a real simple one. Slow walkers. People who don't know how to get places quickly.
SARAH: Oh yeah.
KAYLA: Oh, my God.
SARAH: I am real big on fast walking. And if you're going to walk slow, walk slow, but get out of my fucking way.
BECCA: It's a real simple one, but it's come up a lot.
SARAH: Yep. Oh yeah.
KAYLA: I cannot deal with that.
SARAH: Reminds me of my beef of the week from what, two episodes ago? California drivers? If you're going to go slow, go slow, but get out of my fucking way.
My beef of the week is really specific. My beef of the week is white fanboys who think that everything that a rapper says in a song that isn't “Let's fuck”, is super deep. So they just think –
KAYLA: So fucking isn't deep? Saying let's fuck isn't deep?
SARAH: Go home, Kayla.
KAYLA: I'm in my house.
SARAH: I feel like this happens a lot where they listen to something, they're like, oh my God, Frank Ocean is so deep. Frank Ocean, I wouldn't even consider him a rapper, but here we are.
But no, specific example, there's this song called, Can I Have This Dance? I forget who it's by, but it's featuring Chance The Rapper and I like it because it sounds like Phil Collins, but –
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: That’s the whitest thing ever.
SARAH: Well, I also like the chance part, it's fine, but there's this – I was on the YouTube video of it because I was trying to decide if I wanted to listen to it more. So I was listening and I decided, yes. But there's a line where Chance The Rapper says, I love you more than your mother. And first of all, that could be interpreted more than one way, the intention was I love you more than your mother loves you.
KAYLA: But I love you more than I love your mom dad.
SARAH: But for some reason I was in the comments and this one guy was like, that line is so deep. And I was like, no, that line's fucking presumptuous. You think you love her more than her mother loves her? Do you know her mother?
KAYLA: It's like those tweets that are like, when so-and-so said X, Y lyric, I really felt that. At this point it’s like a meme, but , I was like, that is the simplest lyric I've ever heard.
SARAH: Also that's very presumptuous, you think that you love this person more than their mother. Also, if for a fact that you love her more than her mother –
KAYLA: That’s sad.
SARAH: Why are you bringing this up? Why are you reminding her?
KAYLA: She probably has issues to deal with.
SARAH: Yeah, that’s all.
KAYLA: That was very specific.
SARAH: Because the line is, I love you more than your mother, more than you love yourself, which is –
KAYLA: Oh, that's not good.
SARAH: Yeah. And it's like, I have some issues with that line, and it's not that deep. I get that you're just trying to say that you love her a lot, but –
KAYLA: But stop.
SARAH: Maybe not, so that the white fanboys of the world will (yells) stop.
BECCA: There's a similar thing that I have with the song Rude, where he's like, I'm going to marry her anyway. And I'm like, have you asked her?
SARAH: Right. Have you discussed this with her? If you have, okay.
BECCA: Right?
KAYLA: Does she really want to marry you?
BECCA: Her dad said no. Have you even talked to her about this yet?
SARAH: I think it's stupid and antiquated that you need to get the dad's permission. So I'm glad that you're rebelling against stereotypical, horrible, heteronormative, misogynistic –
KAYLA: Wow, go off Sarah.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: You know, standards, but you need to make sure your girl’s going to say yes before you do this.
KAYLA: I wouldn’t if I were her, he sounds like an asshole.
SARAH: I mean, they have some bopping songs, I’ll give them that. But yeah, you can find that short answer question or tell us about your beef of the week on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. We also have a Tumblr, soundsfakepod.tumblr.com if you’re like, wow, I’m questioning my sexuality, I might be ace. Tumblr, our Tumblr, great place to go. You can also email us at soundsfakepod@gmail.com.
We have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod, if you want to give us your money. Cool, thanks.
KAYLA: That’s a really good pitch.
SARAH: Thank you. Our $2 patrons –
KAYLA: I wonder if that’s why we haven’t got a lot of new patrons recently?
SARAH: Shh. Our $2 patrons are Sara Jones and Keith McBlaine, our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney and Perry Fiero.
Our $10 patrons are Emma Fink, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Emma T Fink, and Tristan Call who would like to promote the DeviantArt and Tumblr page @rationallyparanoid.
Becca, do you have social media that you’d like to promote?
BECCA: My Tumblr isn’t super active, but it’s @canadianwithablog. I’m not really on Twitter, but you can follow me if you want @officialcanadia.
SARAH: She is Canadian.
KAYLA: Have you learned Rebecca’s Canadian?
BECCA: It’s shocking, I know.
SARAH: You spent the summer in Canadia, didn’t you?
BECCA: I did.
KAYLA: Nice.
SARAH: You were in, uh –
BECCA: Montreal and Quebec –
SARAH: I was like, I think it’s Quebec, but maybe it’s Montre – both.
BECCA: It’s both.
SARAH: (laughs) Yeah.
If you want to follow me on social media, I’m @costiellie on Twitter and Instagram and I’m elsewhere but those are more interesting ones. Kayla?
KAYLA: I am @kayla_kas.
SARAH: There’s that, for our shameless self-promo.
Thank you Becca for coming on the pod finally, after literally –
KAYLA: An entire year.
SARAH: Nine months of talking about it. We were pregnant with this podcast, and now it’s here.
BECCA: Wow.
SARAH: We went full-term.
(50:00)
BECCA: Thanks for having me on the podcast.
SARAH: (laughs) Kayla’s making a horrible face.
KAYLA: I didn’t like that.
SARAH: Of course, we’re happy to have you on this pod.
KAYLA: If you want to come back –
BECCA: Just let me know.
KAYLA: Something exciting.
BECCA: I’ll be here til December.
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: (laughing) And until then, take good care of your cows.
SARAH: Kayla forgot to say her line, shame on her.
KAYLA: Cow.
SARAH: (whispers) Cow.