Ep 220: Aspecs Describe the Difference Between Hot, Sexy, Pretty, and Cute
(00:00)
SARAH: Hey, what’s up, hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake but Okay a podcast where an aroace girl, I’m Sarah that’s me
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, that’s me Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: sexy, cute, pretty, beautiful.
SARAH AND KAYLA: Sounds fake, but okay.
(intro music plays)
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: Ahhh!
SARAH: You know Kayla, I should’ve made you say “cutie, sexy, lovely” for that bit, and not told you why.
KAYLA: Is it a BTS thing?
SARAH: It absolutely is.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean you can’t just be like “oh I’m not going to tell you why.” Like, I know your one personality trait.
SARAH: Mhm. And it will come up again later don’t worry.
KAYLA: (sighing) Okay.
SARAH: We have housekeeping before we begin.
KAYLA: Yes. We are going on a little summer vacation.
SARAH: Yes. As promised when we returned – as promised. We promised we would leave sometimes. We are doing a summer break. The last podcast episode before the summer break is going to be on June 26th. We are going to be taking July off, and we will be back on July 31st, so.
KAYLA: And I know what you’re thinking. Wow, that’s so nice of you to give yourself a break, I bet it’ll be so relaxing. Wrong. Because we’re going to be doing some extra special things for the book during our time away, so look forward to that, and know that –
SARAH: Not a single day off.
KAYLA: Not a single day off, yeah, and just know that we don’t get a summer break because of you for making us successful enough to write a book, so it’s your fault.
SARAH: (laughing) I just made a lot of noises.
KAYLA: You really did.
SARAH: Oh boy. Okay. Well, Kayla, now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, Sarah texted me –
SARAH: It was 1 PM.
KAYLA: 1 PM today.
SARAH: 1 PM Pacific.
KAYLA: Yeah. Yes. And she sent me an Instagram post that was comparing pictures of people, the same person.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Doing different poses.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: And one pose would be labeled sexy and another would be labeled cute or one would be pretty and one would be beautiful.
SARAH: They’re all sexy and cute.
KAYLA: Oh okay yeah you’re right.
SARAH: You did a bad job of looking at the thing that I sent you.
KAYLA: I did. But basically it seems like the post, they kind of draw lines down the person to show you what the pose is, so I think they’re supposed to be teaching you how to do a cute versus a sexy pose.
SARAH: I’ve seen photography posts like that that are like “for the best Instagram posts, don’t do this, do this” and they’re done in that same way, so they’re highlighting which lines make it sexy and which lines make it cute, but in every pair of pictures it’s the same person in the same outfit in the same location.
KAYLA: Yes. And so Sarah was like “we should be aspecs trying to explain the difference between being hot/sexy.”
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Cute, beautiful, and pretty.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Inspired by this Instagram post.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Now I have somewhere that I think would be a good place to start.
SARAH: Well, can I just do a quick prelude here? Because I thought I understood the difference between sexy and cute, specifically those two seems pretty easy to me, but then I saw this Instagram post on my explore page and some of them don’t make sense to me.
KAYLA: Well, I would say I don’t think they all do a good job.
SARAH: Yeah. That’s definitely fair. I think in some of them the facial expression is supposed to look more sultry and some of them are like “I made a peace sign, this made it cute” but I don’t understand how the body language in some of these – because it’s clearly highlighting the body language like it’s showing the lines of what the body is doing and I’m like how the fuck does that make it sexy? Like your hand in front of you is sexy and your hand on your hip is cute?
KAYLA: Yeah, I don’t agree with the labels on all… I don’t think this post did the best job of exemplifying sexy versus cute.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: I’ll try to remember to share this post.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: When the episode goes out so you can see it.
(05:00)
KAYLA: but I don’t think they necessarily did a great job, so I think it’s a little confusing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But I think we should start by reading the dictionary definition of these words.
SARAH: Mkay.
KAYLA: To get an objective look because like going into this I feel like I have a gut instinct
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: About what the difference between these words is, but I don’t know that I could describe it in words because it’s kind of like – you know the ruling on – there’s this saying
SARAH: You know if it’s porn?
KAYLA: Yeah you know if it’s porn because the justice who decided the porn case was like “I know it when I see it”
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That’s how I feel about these words. Okay. So are we going with hot or sexy?
SARAH: I think we should do hot and sexy. I think they’re different.
KAYLA: Okay. I’ll do hot first. Hot definition. I feel like I should use the same dictionary. We’re going to Mr. Merriam Webster.
SARAH: Merriam Webster? Not Dictionary.com who I’ve partnered with?
KAYLA: Well, I could – you did very nicely partner with Dictionary.com
SARAH: Fine by me.
KAYLA: Even though we have previously gotten into a fight with dictionary.com on the Internet, so.
SARAH: But they fixed it.
KAYLA: Oh did they?
SARAH: Before I tweeted that, I checked to make sure their definition of aromantic was okay.
KAYLA: That’s nice of them. Okay so there’s a lot of definitions of hot, you know.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: As there’s want to be. So definition 2b1 is – nope that’s not right either.
SARAH: Do you want me to look it up?
KAYLA: Okay, they just used the word sexy. This is not a good definition. I’m going to dictionary.com.
SARAH: Well the thing about definitions is you have to use other words to define the other words.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And at a certain point for the basic words, at a certain point you can’t describe them.
KAYLA: This is interesting. Dictionary.com doesn’t seem to have an option for a definition about looks.
SARAH: Huh.
KAYLA: So Merriam Webster just says “sexy”
SARAH: Well dictionary.com includes it as an adverb which is “in a hot manner, hotly” but that doesn’t help
KAYLA: No, hotly is as in like angrily.
SARAH: Oh you’re right.
KAYLA: Like in a book it’s used as mad.
SARAH: Okay well that’s interesting.
KAYLA: Okay well that’s a bust there.
SARAH: I still want to talk about hot though.
KAYLA: No, no we can’t. Let’s see what just Google comes up with.
SARAH: Mkay. I have a website that said something so absurd that I saved the link, which does include definitions, but I don’t know if they’re the dictionary definitions.
KAYLA: Okay, so interesting. I don’t know where Google is pulling from if you look up –
SARAH: It’s usually Merriam Webster.
KAYLA: This is much more extensive than what Merriam had. Oh it’s from Oxford languages.
SARAH: Oh.
KAYLA: Okay, I guess that’s what we’re using now.
SARAH: I love the Oxford comma.
KAYLA: I know. Okay we’re just using what Google gives us now.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Okay so we have “passionately enthusiastic, eager, or excited” and under that definition –
SARAH: (laughing) Sorry, what word are we defining?
KAYLA: Hot. So definition 3 is “passionately enthusiastic, eager, or excited”. Under that definition we have “lustful, amorous, or erotic”
SARAH: Hm. That’s more of a verb.
KAYLA: I’m just giving you what I can find.
SARAH: What we want is an adjective.
KAYLA: Let’s see.
SARAH: I think we’re spending too long on this. Do the next word.
KAYLA: Okay, let’s go to sexy. That one should be easier. Okay. The two definitions I’m given are “sexually aroused”
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: As in “neither of them was feeling sexy” or “exciting”
SARAH: Is that the first one given?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: That’s weird.
KAYLA: Or actually – god the way that they format dictionary
SARAH: Nothing matters, keep going.
KAYLA: Okay no the first one is “sexually active or exciting as in sexy french underwear”. “Sexually aroused, neither of them was feeling sexy” or “exciting, appealing, I’ve climbed most of the really sexy west coast mountains”
(laughter)
SARAH: Interesting. I will only climb the sexiest mountains.
KAYLA: So again, nothing to describe a person.
SARAH: It is really interesting to look at these definitions because –
KAYLA: Oh okay but in Merriam Webster we have “generally attractive or interesting”
SARAH: See we’re getting to the point where definitions of words aren’t super useful anymore.
KAYLA: I know, but I really wanted to see what they – because I think it proves that it is hard to say what these things are.
SARAH: It’s so much about –
(10:00)
SARAH: what’s the word, that’s the little thing that changes it?
KAYLA: Nuance.
SARAH: Nuance! Thank you. It’s all about nuance with these words and what the difference between them is. And I’m going to get into this later, but it’s super dependent on the language and the culture they’re coming from.
KAYLA: Oh for sure. I just looked up “pretty” though.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: And this one they have a lot more to say about.
SARAH: I’m sure they do.
KAYLA: Pretty is “attractive in a delicate way without being truly beautiful“ so in this definition they are saying “not beautiful”
SARAH: Okay, that –
KAYLA: “pretty is attractive in a delicate way,” that is a helpful definition.
SARAH: Okay, that’s what I found on this website that made me go what? So, specifically, pretty is attractive but not attractive enough to be beautiful or handsome. What they’re saying is that pretty is a bar below beautiful.
KAYLA: I think I would agree with that.
SARAH: I think on the whole I agree, but you can be both pretty and beautiful, you know?
KAYLA: Yes that’s true.
SARAH: And also my thing is if pretty is less than beautiful I don’t think handsome gets to be equal to beautiful.
KAYLA: No, I don’t think there are.
SARAH: There are fewer words to –
KAYLA: There are fewer words to describe masculine people in a pleasing way.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Physically.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I don’t know if that sentence made sense.
SARAH: No, it made sense to my ears. I don’t know if it’ll make sense on paper.
KAYLA: Well that’s for the transcript to decide. Sorry Bagel.
(laughter)
SARAH: Yep. Yeah there are just fewer words to describe the attractiveness of men because –
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because it’s less discussed.
KAYLA: Well, yeah.
SARAH: Because the objectification of women, you know. Not that women objectifying men is a recent invention.
KAYLA: No, yeah.
SARAH: Men have had the… my brain can’t remember a single word today. The …
KAYLA: Privilege?
SARAH: Yeah the privilege of being able to objectify women
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: On a broad cultural scale to a greater extent than have man, and so there’s just more words for it.
KAYLA: So the definition of beautiful that I found from (in a British accent) Oxford Languages
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Is “pleasing the senses or mind aesthetically” so a lot looser of a definition than pretty.
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: So pretty so far has been the most helpful definition. Let’s see cute. Ugh, so unhelpful. They describe cute as “attractive in a pretty or endearing way”, so to me cute is a lot easier to parse.
SARAH: Me too. It’s more childish.
KAYLA: If I were to go on a scale, I would say it goes cute, pretty, beautiful.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: I also think there’s a level of innocence that goes with each of those three.
SARAH: Correct.
KAYLA: Cute is what you say about a child, about small animal.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Pretty might be more like a teen, a tween, like the definition said it’s in a –
SARAH: Well you can also call a sunset pretty.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: You can also call a sunset cute, and it’s becoming more common to do so, but it’s been established for many years in the English language that it’s totally acceptable and not slangy to call a sunset pretty.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Or a tree pretty.
KAYLA: Yeah, but even this definition says it’s “attractive in a delicate way”
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Which if you think about the word, it does make sense that something that is pretty is delicate and something that is beautiful is more robust or striking
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Or more unique in a way.
SARAH: Here’s a question. Can you look up the word attractive?
KAYLA: Ooh, good question.
SARAH: Because all of them use the word attractive essentially to describe it.
KAYLA: You’re not going to like it.
SARAH: And attractive is the word that I default to as an aroace person to describe –
KAYLA: It’s the most neutral.
SARAH: – other people. Because it’s neutral and it just feels almost objective in a way, not that there is any objectivity. So hit me with whatever the bad definition is.
KAYLA: So this one is actually interesting. This one is from Oxford Languages. It says “(of a thing)”, so describing a thing,
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: “pleasing or appealing to the senses, as in an attractive home”
(15:00)
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: “(of a person) appealing to look at, sexually alluring as in an attractive, charismatic man”. So when talking about a thing they just say it’s pleasing but when talking about a person they add sexually alluring. I do not agree with this definition.
SARAH: I think that it certainly can refer to a sexual nature, but it’s usually specified.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: That you are sexually attracted, you know what I mean?
KAYLA: Yeah. Merriam Webster has either “a. Arousing interest or pleasure” or b. Just appealing.
SARAH: Hm.
KAYLA: (laughing) Merriam Webster kind of sucks at definitions. I’m just going to say it. They’re kind of ass.
SARAH: Can I tell you what this website says is on Urban Dictionary? – or we could look them up on Urban Dictionary but I had the website open in front of me.
KAYLA: Mhm.
SARAH: For cute it says “a girl who is lovely and dreamy and cuddly and shines beautiful and awww *drools*” but like drools in asterisks.
KAYLA: See I think Urban Dictionary is actually going to be very helpful for this.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So again in an innocent like “aww, little”
SARAH: I feel like the drooling almost undercuts that a little bit though.
KAYLA: No, I don’t think the drooling is correct. Drooling I think is more for the aooga like popping out eyes like sexy thing.
SARAH: Aooga!
KAYLA: Yes. You know? In the cartoons?
SARAH: So I think it’s a little weird that it says “drools” there
KAYLA: Yeah. That’s weird.
SARAH: Okay. Sexy is supposed to mean sexually attractive however recently it has become a word of ambiguous meaning that morons use when unable to think of a better adjective for something they like.
(laughter)
SARAH: Not a very helpful definition.
KAYLA: But that’s like true. That’s true.
SARAH: That sexy mountains on the west coast.
KAYLA: Oh yeah, sexy west coast mountains I climbed
SARAH: Okay, pretty. There are two different definitions for pretty. One: “a girl who has appeals that attracts a guy” that’s so heteronormative.
KAYLA: That’s a lot for me, but okay.
SARAH: Granted this was from 2014, not that I expect a lot out of Urban Dictionary
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Two: “a girl can also be pretty inside in her feelings in her beliefs”
KAYLA: That makes literally no sense to me.
SARAH: Also it says “in her feelings in her beliefs” with no punctuation. Not in her feelings and her beliefs.
KAYLA: I have an interesting development.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: I looked up handsome, and from Oxford Languages it says “(of a man) good looking”
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: Yeah. Can I tell you what the beautiful thing on Urban Dictionary is?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: “beautiful is a woman who has a distinctive personality, one who can laugh at anything including themselves, who is especially kind and caring to others. She is a woman who above all else knows the value of having fun and not taking life too seriously. She is a woman that you can trust and count on to brighten your day. She is a woman who can inexplicably make you feel really good just by being around her and yet bring such great sadness when she is gone.”
KAYLA: Oh my god.
SARAH: “She is a woman who I will never really get to know”
KAYLA: Whoever wrote this is going through something.
SARAH: Who hurt you?
KAYLA: Are you okay?
SARAH: But this description is moreso about the personality.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Than it is about the looks.
KAYLA: Well and that’s also the hard thing is that objectively these words are meant to describe the outside of something, but like…
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: I don’t know, especially as a demisexual person to me a person’s personality adds a lot to how attractive I find them.
SARAH: Yeah. What’s the definition for gorgeous?
KAYLA: Good question, but first let me plug in my computer. And also, let me read you this. Another definition for handsome, Merriam Webster says “having a pleasing and usually impressive or dignified appearance”. I think that’s a more helpful definition.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because then you’re getting –
SARAH: Specific.
KAYLA: Yeah. Gorgeous…
SARAH: Dignified.
KAYLA: “beautiful, very attractive or very pleasant”
SARAH: Not useful. Very pleasant. Interesting. I think what we should do
KAYLA: Mhm.
SARAH: I have some things to say about other languages but I think we’ll do that at the end. I think what we should do right now is we should describe how we envision the difference between all of these words.
KAYLA: Okay. Where should we start?
SARAH: I think first we should differentiate hot and sexy.
KAYLA: I was just going to say that. Same brain. Okay, I think I have a difference.
SARAH: Go ahead.
KAYLA: Hot is a man with his shirt off.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Nope. Hot is a man with his shirt on. Sexy is a man with his shirt off
(20:00)
KAYLA: and it’s like one of those pictures where their abs are out.
SARAH: Like a firemen’s calendar
KAYLA: Yes. Sexy to me is more objectified
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: And more in your face than hot.
SARAH: Yeah I think it’s more of like a “I want to sex you”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Whereas hot is more of like an “oh shit I could just look at that all day” in a more objectifying way than beautiful is
KAYLA: Okay if sexy is on the end of the spectrum where it’s like understandably the most about sexual appeal.
SARAH: Mhm. Yeah.
KAYLA: And then hot is the next one down from that, then what differentiates hot and beautiful?
SARAH: I don’t know, we’re not there yet. What I wanted to say is that me, I am not comfortable really calling people sexy
KAYLA: Understandable.
SARAH: Personally. Like I can be like objectively I can see why a person would find this to be sexy but I feel weird calling someone sexy. Hot though, I’m okay with. Not all the time, not a lot.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I’m comfortable with saying the word hot.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Which I think is a good indication of me, as a sex-averse ace
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That kind of draws the line between hot and sexy. Also!
KAYLA: Yes?
SARAH: I was going to say also, both hot and sexy are completely gender neutral.
KAYLA: That is true.
SARAH: They don’t imply a gender, like the words.
KAYLA: I have an exercise that I’m wondering if it will help us.
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: What if we google a celebrity and we use different words each time, so we look up like sexy Ryan Reynolds, hot Ryan Reynolds
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: Beautiful Ryan Reynolds
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: And see what pictures Google serves us. Do you think that would be helpful at all?
SARAH: Yeah, I think so. We should do a woman though because I think it will be more of a marked difference.
KAYLA: Mm, true. Okay, who should we choose?
SARAH: Mila Kunis.
KAYLA: Okay. Mila Kunis sexy. Images. Okay.
SARAH: I’m also there.
KAYLA: Okay, helpful. Okay, so we –
SARAH: The first thing that comes up is Mila Kunis hot.
KAYLA: I mean… So when you look up Mila Kunis sexy it is all very – it’s either like shirtless, in underwear, a bunch of cleavage out
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: This one she’s fully laying on a bed, naked with her ass up. Jesus Christ.
(laughter)
SARAH: Classic move.
KAYLA: So that’s helpful. So what is Mila Kunis hot? It is the same. It’s the same photographs, so that’s less helpful.
SARAH: Okay so my first result was Mila Kunis on Hot Ones which is excellent.
KAYLA: Yeah, I did get that one. I also had Mila Kunis on Hot Ones
SARAH: Also, why is the fourth result Cara Delevigne?
KAYLA: Well.
SARAH: (laughing) That’s not her.
KAYLA: Yeah these gave me the same results.
SARAH: I feel like the results are similar but they are less explicitly scantily clad
KAYLA: Mhm.
SARAH: There are certainly scantily clad pictures but I would say on average, they’re not –
KAYLA: No, you are right. Especially as you scroll down, that’s very true.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yes, that’s true. When you scroll down on hot you hit fully clothed pictures a lot sooner than when you scroll down on sexy.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: This was a helpful exercise. You’re welcome everyone. Okay.
SARAH: Let’s do Mila Kunis cute and see what happens.
KAYLA: Well that’s not going down the spectrum in the correct order
SARAH: Oh my god, I’m so sorry, what’s next?
KAYLA: The next one is beautiful. Now I’m getting –
SARAH: More of her face.
KAYLA: That’s very true. A lot less body
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: A lot of red carpet looks. Okay, that is actually so telling that these are all closeups of her face.
SARAH: Yeah, they’re all like – I was about to say medium closeup as if most people have an idea of what that means.
KAYLA: I mean, I think they can sus it out.
SARAH: They’re like boob and shoulder up
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Is what most of them are
KAYLA: And all of the hot and sexy ones were full body.
SARAH: Yeah. And there are more of her smiling
KAYLA: That’s true, rather than like sexy face.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: So then what do you think is the difference between hot and beautiful?
SARAH: I think beautiful is just less objectifying. I think beautiful leans more feminine
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: In terms of what we associate it with whereas hot is more gender neutral whereas beautiful feels more feminine and inanimate things can be beautiful and that doesn’t have to be in a gendered way but when it comes to people, you know. If you were to call a man like
(25:00)
SARAH: “that is a beautiful man” you would never say that about a man who looks very stereotypically masculine.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You know?
KAYLA: Well, I would.
SARAH: Well, but like, on average I mean.
KAYLA: Okay but yeah. But thinking of the times I’ve called a man beautiful and it’s usually to put extra emphasis on it because I know I am using the word not typically used for men.
SARAH: Yeah. And because the other words – because handsome isn’t enough.
KAYLA: Well, yeah. Because they just don’t have enough words for men. For men, it goes from handsome to hot to sexy. There’s no in between.
SARAH: And then there’s a huge ravine –
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Between those words
KAYLA: Yeah. So yeah, I think beautiful doesn’t really insinuate any sex appeal at all, hot has some sex appeal, and then sexy is obviously like that’s all. Mila Kunis pretty.
SARAH: Mila Kunis pretty, which as we have established, is a step below beautiful, for some reason.
KAYLA: It just is. The pictures look pretty much the same though.
SARAH: Why do we have the one of Justin Timberlake grabbing her boobs at the MTA
KAYLA: I don’t know. I don’t know how your results are different from mine, but – oh, no. I didn’t scroll down far enough.
SARAH: I feel like – is it just me, or are there more pictures of her when she’s younger?
KAYLA: I was thinking the same thing, which does match with my definition of pretty, so that makes sense to me.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Because pretty does seem more youthful to me than beautiful.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It seems more innocent, less glamorous. I mean if you think about it like –
SARAH: Less charged too.
KAYLA: Yeah, less passionate.
SARAH: Like if someone shows you something that’s really ugly and you have to say something nice you wouldn’t say it’s beautiful you’d say “oh, that’s pretty”
KAYLA: Yeah. Well, thinking about it, what would a child have to look like for me to call a child beautiful?
SARAH: Like an adult. You know those kids that look like adults?
KAYLA: Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Like a child that looks that you put in makeup and a ball gown for some reason.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: See that’s what I’m talking about, pretty is a more youthful situation. Mila Kunis cute. I bet we’re going to get some that 70s show things. I was wrong. Pregnant Mila Kunis. Interesting.
SARAH: I got pregnant Mila Kunis on the last one.
KAYLA: And I’m getting her with Ashton Kutcher, as in “oh, cute moments of them”. I’m getting a lot of pregnant Mila Kunis, I’m getting a lot more family Mila Kunis.
SARAH: I got a couple of her as a kid.
KAYLA: This to me is showing that cute is something pure and wholesome
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: And like “awwww”
SARAH: She’s holding her kid
KAYLA: Cute!
SARAH: She’s holding her other kid. No, that’s the same kid, different age.
KAYLA: These are all her with her kids or her husband.
SARAH: (laughing) I got to that 70s show but it’s her and Ashton Kutcher.
KAYLA: Well, what you going to do?
SARAH: Yeah, there’s a surprising amount of baby bump pictures, which I don’t like, personally. Anyone who knows me.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I feel like I hear people describing women with baby bumps as cute
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because you can’t be beautiful.
SARAH: We’ve gotten far enough down to “50 Mila Kunis sexy cutest butt pictures” are probably the cutest pair of butt cheeks you’ve ever seen.
KAYLA: (laughing) Oh my god, what the fuck? That makes me uncomfortable.
SARAH: It’s by the website “geeks on coffee”
KAYLA: Not a good look for geeks, I’ll be honest.
SARAH: Look, she has a nice butt. She doesn’t have a big butt.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You know?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I’m just saying the stereotypical nice ass is maybe less so
KAYLA: The BBL, as they would say.
SARAH: The BBL.
KAYLA: I had to look that up. That’s how old I’m getting.
SARAH: Oh, I also had to look that up.
KAYLA: I’m so out of touch, there’s been several internet things I’ve had to google lately. It’s so embarrassing.
SARAH: In this picture, she has no ass, and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. Kayla, I’m sending it to you. This was number 3 on the Mila Kunis sexy cutest butt website.
KAYLA: Kay. And it’s not good, in your opinion?
SARAH: It’s a perfectly good picture, I just don’t think it highlights butt.
KAYLA: Oh, no.
(30:00)
KAYLA: It is not a picture that highlights her butt at all.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: It’s like her turned to – no. That’s a very odd picture choice, because yes, nothing about that picture is directing your attention to her butt.
SARAH: (laughing) That picture is also number 7. It’s both number 3 and –
KAYLA: Someone did not do a good job of curating this website because, that’s nothing. Well, anyway.
SARAH: This has been informative.
KAYLA: I think that was a great exercise, and I would implore anyone to pick your favorite celeb and try it out.
SARAH: And it reminds me to remind you that one time I was on a zoom call with Mila Kunis
KAYLA: I do remember that.
SARAH: So, just saying.
KAYLA: So there you go.
SARAH: There you have it. Okay. That’s interesting. I think that’s all pretty accurate. Would you like to go into how I turned this into a BTS thing?
KAYLA: Yes. I’m very interested in the languages aspect of this.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because as we know, the English language compared to a lot of other languages is not as nuanced
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And many other languages have a lot more words for more specific things so I’m interested to hear what other people are doing.
SARAH: Yeah. So in Korean, one of the words they use to describe beauty, including in men, I think often in men, is – this is putting my Korean pronunciation to the test, I’m so sorry –
KAYLA: You’re so brave.
SARAH: I know. Is 매력 (maelyeog), which translates as attractive, but it also translates as charming.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: And I noticed that a lot, seeing translations like “maelyeogii” and it would translate as charming. And I just thought that was really interesting. And it made me think of – the context isn’t relevant, but Taehyung on I-land was so attractive for just looks and he described it as being handsome versus charming and Yoongi joked “oh you can only say that because you’re both”. When he clarified, when Taehyung clarified, that being handsome is different than being charming, and for the record, I had to do a lot of deep diving to figure out the Korean words he said, today. And I might not be 100% correct but listen, I put a lot of effort in and you should appreciate this.
KAYLA: I’m so proud of you.
SARAH: You shouldn’t should, but you will appreciate this.
KAYLA: (laughing) Oh my god.
SARAH: Got more aggressive.
KAYLA: Jesus.
SARAH: Yeah. So when he clarified that being charming was different from being handsome, the word he used, he said “maelyeog” again, but the editors actually clarified what he said in parentheses, and the verb that they used there was 어필하다 (“eopilhada”) which means appealing or alluring. It’s literally 어필 (“eopil”), it’s a loan word from English
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: That was the word they kind of used to clarify what he meant when he said “maelyeog” so then meanwhile, the word that they’re using for handsome is 잘생겼다 (jalsaeng-gyeossda), which literally translates to “having good looks”
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: And so basically what he was saying is that there’s more to attractiveness than just looks, it’s being handsome, having good looks, and being charming, and both of those are aspects of being attractive, but they’re different from each other.
KAYLA: I think that’s very true. And it also makes me think when you said alluring it made me think, because alluring is another word to describe someone, I was trying to think how is alluring different than sexy.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: But to me, alluring has more to do with the person’s personality.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: It’s more of like you trying to seduce someone you can’t necessarily just stand there and stare at a stagnant person and find them alluring. You have to do something to allure them.
SARAH: Right, it’s more active.
KAYLA: You have to do something. But that’s very true. Like I said, as a demisexual person, a person’s personality matters a lot to me in attractiveness, so that’s very true. Someone could just be
(35:00)
KAYLA: Attractive, and then they open their mouth and they’re an asshole, and then suddenly, they’re not attractive anymore.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Or someone could be like average, but then they’re like an amazing person so they’re going to seem more attractive to you.
SARAH: And it was just interesting to me, to see in this other culture, the charmingness is given greater weight
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: Than it is in the culture that I was raised in, and the language they have reflects that.
KAYLA: Yeah, that is interesting. And I mean, I don’t pretend to know much about Korean culture, or East Asian culture but from what I –
SARAH: (laughing) I know a little
KAYLA: But from what I understand, politeness and hospitality matters more than it matters here
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: And if I am wrong, please tell me
SARAH: You’re not wrong. From my understanding of limited Korean culture, yes.
KAYLA: So it makes sense charm would matter more
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Than in the US, where you can kind of just be an asshole and it’s fine
SARAH: Yeah. Well, and then that made me think of, you know, in Korean, the word for cute is used a lot. In English, you would say… say you’re describing a little kid, or a pet or something. In English, we would say cute, in Korean they'd say 귀여운 (gwiyeoun), which means cute, but in German the word that would most commonly be used is süß, which means sweet
KAYLA: Hm.
SARAH: So when you’re describing a little kid or a little dog you’re like “oh, so süß, er ist so süß” rather than being like “oh, he’s so cute”
KAYLA: I mean, it makes sense. I think sweetness is like a component of cuteness.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: You know what this made me think of? Is my two cats, Billie and Gnocchi
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: People often say about Billie that she is a beautiful cat
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: Because she is, but people will say of Gnocchi that she is a cute cat
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: It’s very distinct the language people use for my cats
SARAH: Yeah, interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah, it is interesting because Gnocchi is smaller
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: She is –
SARAH: She’s more diminutive.
KAYLA: She is. She’s more timid, like Billie is bigger, she has more fur. To borrow a word from the handsome definition, she seems more dignified to look at.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: It’s interesting because those are two pets.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And I think pets we generally call cute.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: And it’s interesting to look at the differences within –
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: – pets. To look at the differences in how we describe them.
SARAH: Yeah. Another thing with German is the word for like pretty or beautiful is schön, which those who know The Sound of Music, might recognize from danke schön means thank you very much, but it literally means “thank you beautifully”
KAYLA: Hm.
SARAH: And so it’s just interesting to see how these words that describe beauty and attractiveness are co-opted into other contexts depending on the language and the culture and the context.
KAYLA: That is very interesting.
SARAH: This has been Sarah’s knowledge about language.
KAYLA: I mean, you know two more languages than I know, so if anyone here is –
SARAH: Bold of you to say I know Korean.
KAYLA: You know – I don’t know man, I can only speak English, but you majored in German and are actively studying Korean, like.
SARAH: (laughing) That’s true.
KAYLA: You’re doing more.
SARAH: I think that’s all.
KAYLA: Yeah, I… I don’t know, I thought this was interesting.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I was just going to say I would love to hear other people’s thoughts on the differences.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: which can maybe just be the open-ended poll.
SARAH: Yeah. I’m also curious to hear from people, especially those who are aspec, what words are you comfortable with other people using to describe you?
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: Because if someone called me sexy, I would be very uncomfortable, unless it was under very specific circumstances where for some reason that was what I was going for.
KAYLA: Yeah.
(40:00)
SARAH: Other words I’m totally fine with, so I’m just curious to know.
KAYLA: Yeah, it reminds me of especially how when I was younger and like a stranger would call me a woman rather than a girl…
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: … and I would get very uncomfortable because I was like “I am not, I’m a child”
SARAH: It’s like when people “ma’am” me instead of “miss” me in public
KAYLA: Yes, it feels like that sort of.
SARAH: Yeah, I don’t know.
KAYLA: It’s wrong, it’s just incorrect.
SARAH: Yeah, it’s weird. Mkay, that’s all. Okay, well I guess that’s our poll
KAYLA: We did it so good. We haven’t done a poll like that since like episode 2. We really did it to them this time.
SARAH: So I had an episode idea hours before.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And a poll came right out.
KAYLA: Two polls came right out.
SARAH: I even made it about BTS
KAYLA: Who’s doing it like us? Nobody.
SARAH: Nobody.
KAYLA: Nobody. Nobody’s doing it like us. Right before we go on break, we’ll just hit you with a really good one
SARAH: Hell yeah. Kayla, what’s your beef and your juice?
KAYLA: That’s such a good question. My beef is ingrown hairs
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: They‘re annoying, and they have got to stop what they’re doing. They’ve just got to stop. My juice is that I just had a very wild weekend.
(laughter)
KAYLA: Dean’s company had like a retreat that I got to also go on, and just… we got to see Bruno Mars and John Legend and Dr. Shaquille O’Neal live and in concert
SARAH: (laughing) It’s so wild to me.
KAYLA: Which was wild, and there was like a 6 course dinner. It was just a lot.
SARAH: (laughing) Kayla just texted me and she was like “I’m watching Bruno Mars now” and I was like “excuse me?!”
KAYLA: Well, sometimes Bruno Mars just walks out onto the stage
SARAH: (laughing) And then you were like “I’m watching John Legend right now and also some people say that Shaq is going to DJ later” and then I see a video of Shaq
KAYLA: And then Dr. Shaquille O’Neal, flat earther, did DJ for us, and he kept chanting at us to kiss our wife. He dedicated the song to his wife. By the way, he’s straight up not married. And then at the beat drop, he kept just being like “kiss your wife”
SARAH: (laughing) Wait, is he actually not married?
KAYLA: No! Because I looked it up! I was like “okay, he must be married, sure” we looked it up. Not, straight up divorced.
SARAH: (laughing) That is so fucking funny.
KAYLA: I literally screamed when I found that out, I felt so betrayed.
SARAH: That’s actually hilarious.
KAYLA: (laughing) So anyway.
SARAH: Amazing. Incredible. My juice is that J-hope is headlining Lollapalooza. They just dropped that out of nowhere
KAYLA: They really did
SARAH: A member of BTS is headlining Lolla. And also, tomorrow x together is performing which is also fantastic, but I’ll be seeing them a couple weeks before then, so I got to the party sooner than Lolla, you know? Anyway.
KAYLA: Well are you going to Lolla?
SARAH: Well, no, that’s my beef.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: My beef is I cannot find an excuse to go. Lollapalooza is in Chicago. I live in California. I am already flying back to Michigan in July, September, November, December, and February.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I can’t fly almost as far again in July
KAYLA: (laughing) Just because
SARAH: To go to Lolla. Just to see Hopey. I can’t do that. Also I’ve never been to a festival but I don’t think they’re really my scene.
KAYLA: I do not think you would enjoy a festival.
SARAH: And so I will –
KAYLA: A festival was a lot for me
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And if it was a lot for me, I don’t think you would enjoy it.
SARAH: Yeah, and on the bright side, I would be able to see a bunch of my friends, because a bunch of people are going, which makes me FOMO so hard, but I would really just be going to see him and txt and maybe look at the set list and see if there’s anyone else.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Anyway. So that’s my beef and my juice. New BTS music! By the time this comes out it will be out.
KAYLA: I can’t wait to hear about nothing but that.
SARAH: Special guest: maybe Silk Sonic in their live thing? Maybe.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: I don’t know.
KAYLA: I don’t need to see Silk I already saw Bruno Mars live so whatever
SARAH: (singing) I hope you’re walking to the sea
KAYLA: The funny thing is I was kind of walking into the sea while watching Bruno Mars because we were in a wave pool,
(45:00)
and I was standing in it while watching Bruno Mars
(laughter)
SARAH: Every person I have mentioned this to is like “where does Dean work?!”
KAYLA: My cousin messaged me and was like “does Dean work for the Pentagon? Like what’s happening?”
SARAH: I love the idea that this is what the people work at the Pentagon would most enjoy.
KAYLA: I mean… yeah, probably not. They seem kind of boring.
SARAH: Maybe they want to prove you wrong, you know? Anyway, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, or answer our poll on our social media @soundsfakepod. If you’d like to support us on Patreon, we’ve got one of those. Our $5 patrons who we’re promoting this week are Mel McMeans, Melissa Kaufman, Nick Ford, Rachel, and Ria Faustino. Also, this person used to be a $15 patron and now they’re a $5 patron, and normally we wouldn’t shout that out when people bump down, we’ll just say it whenever their time comes up to say their name, but I would like to promote for Leila, that Leila is buying a home, and that’s why they bumped down a patronage.
KAYLA: And in this economy, it’s very impressive.
SARAH: That’s what I said! I said “in this economy?” I answered within like 2 minutes because I saw the email and I was like “in this economy??”
KAYLA: It’s just wild times.
SARAH: The rare timely answer from Sounds Fake but Okay podcast
KAYLA: (laughing) It never happens anymore. I’m so sorry to anyone who has messaged us or emailed us in the last like 5 months. I’m so sorry.
SARAH: (laughing) We’re useless. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Arcnes who would like to promote the Trevor Project, Ari K. who would like to promote Thought Slime, Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote tabletop games, Changeling and Alex the ace cat who would like to promote Starshipchangeling.net and also ace cats, and David Jay who would like to promote Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown. Our other $10 patrons are David Nurse, Derek and Carissa, CinnamonToastPunch, my Aunt Jeannie, Maggie Capalbo, Martin Chiesl, Mattie, Potater, Purple Hayes, Rosie Costello, Barefoot Backpacker, and The Steve. Our $15 patrons are Andrew Hillum who would like to promote The Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Click4Caroline who would like to promote Ace of Hearts. Dia Chappell who would like to promote – oh it’s after 6/10 it’s time to go back to Twitch.tv/MelodyDia! I hope their friends’ game was funded. Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, Nathaniel J White – well, yes Nathaniel J White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com – I said that way too fast. Kayla’s aunt Nina Maggart who would like to promote @katemaggart.art, Sara Jones who is @eternalloli everywhere. Our $20 patrons are Sabrina Hauck Merry Christmas and Dragonfly who would like to promote not getting FOMO. You know, I had some very profound thoughts after I found out about the thing.
KAYLA: I can’t wait to hear these.
SARAH: I was like “you know what, the only reason we feel such pain is because we love things so much to begin with –
KAYLA: Sarah.
SARAH: “and what spurred this on? FOMO!” It was funny, I made myself laugh.
KAYLA: I mean, there were times when writing the book that you were inspired to start writing because you listened to BTS
SARAH: That’s true.
KAYLA: So, respect, I guess.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Our book brought to you in part by –
SARAH: BTS
KAYLA: Boston tentacles …
SARAH: Do we have a thanks section in our book?
KAYLA: Sausage. I don’t… I think we probably will. We certainly haven’t written it.
SARAH: I’m going to put that in there. Boston tentacle sausage just for you. Thanks for listening! I know that you listened Boston tentacle sausage. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: (laughing) And until then, take good care of your cows.
KAYLA: (quietly) P.S. this is a message for discord user Weezer – Weasel, not Weezer. I mean I guess if Weezer listens to the podcast. This is a message for the discord user Weasel only. If the meme of this week is not a Boston tentacle sausage, I am going to be extremely disappointed. Okay thank you I love you so much. Goodbye.
(49:07)