Ep 99: Relationship Anarchy
SARAH: Hey what's up hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me
KAYLA: And a demi-straight girl, that's me, Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode, Relationship Anarchy.
BOTH: Sounds Fake, But Okay.
[Into Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: Mmm-aybe.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: I saw someone do that on Twitter.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It pleased me. Very much.
SARAH: It did. Okay.
KAYLA: There has been a lot happening on Twitter.
SARAH: There has been a lot happening on Twitter. Before we talk about Twitter, listen, I know I always mention noises outside. Okay. My dad is mowing the lawn. He decided to mow the lawn right as we were starting this. Someone else is weed whacking. Honestly, it's unclear if it's my dad or not. The sounds may go in and out depending on where he is in the yard. Just, okay. Listen. I live with my parents now. What do you want?
KAYLA: Oof.
SARAH: Okay, Twitter.
KAYLA: Well, okay, before we do that, I know, well, this is, I guess, kind of Twitter-related. So, we did tweet about this, but apparently, we have been missing some patrons for several weeks now?
SARAH: Yeah. What the fuck?
KAYLA: Um, yeah. We just, Patreon sometimes does not email us when it's supposed to.
SARAH: Yeah, we were not getting the appropriate emails.
KAYLA: And I didn't realize that I needed to check so diligently, I guess. So, we're very sorry that we have missed you.
SARAH: Sad.
KAYLA: We still, please know that we still appreciate you very, very, very much.
SARAH: We do. We're very sorry.
KAYLA: And we're very sorry we see you, we see you now.
SARAH: We see you.
KAYLA: We're very sorry.
SARAH: RIP. Alright.
KAYLA: We'll get to you at the end of the show.
SARAH: We sure will. What other Twitter news do we have?
KAYLA: Well, the other day I was looking at all of our numbers and things, and I was like, wow, there's a lot happening here. Because, I think we talked about this last time, but we're almost at 100 episodes. And we're like probably a month or two away from having like 100,000 listens, which is very wild. A lot of people listened last month. It was very wild. Hello, all of you.
SARAH: What's up?
KAYLA: We met our Patreon goal. So, there's just a lot happening. And I was like, you know what would be fun is if we had a thousand Twitter followers by the time we got to 100 episodes. Because we were at like 860 something, I think, at the time. And so, one Twitter user in particular has been going on an absolute...
SARAH: ADHDug is an icon.
KAYLA: A true crusade over on ADHDug's Twitter. And probably mostly thanks to him, we are now at 901 followers.
SARAH: Is he our new social media person?
KAYLA: I think he might be because he sure is doing more than I am at this moment. So, yes.
SARAH: Amazing.
KAYLA: So, yeah, if you're not following us on Twitter, I guess you better or else ADHDug is probably going to get ya.
SARAH: He's going to come for you.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's very exciting stuff.
SARAH: Iconic.
KAYLA: He's also on a crusade to finish every episode by 100 and he's only at 50.
SARAH: I don't think it's going to happen, ADHDug. And it'll be a while before you hear this.
KAYLA: How many weeks does he have?
SARAH: Two? Well, today is Wednesday, September 4th. He's got a week and a half.
KAYLA: So, by the time you're hearing this...
SARAH: By the time you're hearing this, he only has a week.
KAYLA: Oh man, that means we got to start planning, huh?
SARAH: I don't think I would want to listen to our voices that much.
KAYLA: Someone in the Discord the other day said they read something in my voice. And I was like, dear God.
SARAH: Oh, no. I don't want your voice in my head.
KAYLA: But I know that phenomenon of you listen to someone a lot and then you read something in their voice.
SARAH: I do that with Jenna Marbles sometimes.
KAYLA: Oh, I do that, yeah. Yes. But now people are doing it with my voice, which is odd.
SARAH: Why not mine? God
KAYLA: Well, because it was a thing.
SARAH: Oh, Jesus.
KAYLA: If you liked that joke, maybe people would like you more and put you in their head.
SARAH: Interesting. Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Are you saying my number one most unlikable trait is that I don't like them the m’s?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Honestly, I'm doing great then. If that's my number one most unlikable trait.
KAYLA: I mean, I didn't say you didn't have other unlikable traits.
SARAH: But you said that was my number one most unlikable trait. Okay, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week we're talking about relationship anarchy.
SARAH: We sure are. So, a lovely listener sent us an email. It is from Ray. And this person was like, I want to hear about relationship anarchy. Here's the manifesto.
KAYLA: A fun word.
SARAH: Yeah. And when I first saw that I was like, oh god, this sounds like…
KAYLA: Fake
SARAH: Aggressive. And also, I expected it to be like, everyone should be in a relationship at all times. I don't know why I thought that.
KAYLA: Well, I mean, anarchy is a strong word.
SARAH: Yeah, I think the word anarchy and then also just like manifesto, I was just like, whoa. But I would, after reading it, I was pleasantly surprised.
KAYLA: It was also translated from Swedish.
SARAH: It was
KAYLA: So maybe manifesto is just like a less scary word in Fredish
SARAH: That's true.
KAYLA: Hello, Swedish.
SARAH: In Shredish? Yeah, it was translated from Swedish. It was originally written in 2006, which is fun.
KAYLA: Just a long time ago.
SARAH: How old were we in 2006?
KAYLA: Nine?
SARAH: We turned nine?
KAYLA: We collectively turned nine.
SARAH: Me and you.
KAYLA: I know. I know what you meant. It's just funny to think of us having one age. I don't know.
SARAH: Well, we don't though, because I would have been eight for most of that year and you would have been nine for most of that year.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: That's how math works.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Okay. But, okay, so do we want to give our listeners just the lowdown on what the manifesto says?
KAYLA: I was actually thinking we would do the whole episode without explaining what relationship anarchy was.
SARAH: Oh, okay, so we're still in the mindset of last week's episode.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARH: Just kind of say whatever you want.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: As much as I love that idea.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm. Yeah, perhaps not. Maybe next week.
SARAH: Hit me with some info.
KAYLA: Okay. Well, so first of all, I'll put the link below. It's in the Anarchist Library, which is a fun website, a website I suppose that exists.
SARAH: I got to check this website out.
KAYLA: Which is very fun. But yeah, so it's made by a Swedish person named Andie Nordgren?
SARAH: Nordgren
KAYLA: Yeah. But Swedish sounding. And I suppose it looks like they used to run a website that was all about relationship anarchy between 2004 to 2008.
SARAH: Oh, this was translated to English by the person who wrote it.
KAYLA: Oh, good for them.
SARAH: Yeah, good on ya.
KAYLA: Good. Good job.
SARAH: Because I took a class about translation, I was like, interesting that they used the phrase, fake it till you make it. I'm wondering what that was originally.
KAYLA: But it was that.
SARAH: And if that's a true translation of what it was or just what it meant. And I was like, oh, it was translated by the same person. So, I'm sure it's a good translation.
KAYLA: It's very interesting, actually, because there's some other phrases that I think are funny, and I was wondering if they were lost in translation. But it seems like they weren't, and they're just funny.
SARAH: Or maybe they were lost in translation, because you're not really sure.
KAYLA: There's only so many words.
SARAH: Better translations are found when the person translates into their native language, and because this person was seemingly not doing that.
KAYLA: Anyway, so this, it's called a short instructional manifesto for relationship anarchy. So basically, I'm not going to read the whole thing, because it's not that long, but also, that seems boring.
SARAH: We could read the headers, though. There's a bunch of different headers, and each has a paragraph explanation.
KAYLA: Yes. Well, I was going to read the first paragraph, the whole thing.
SARAH: I think, yeah, actually, the first paragraph is good. So, it kind of describes what relationship anarchy is.
KAYLA: Wow, this episode, also anarchy.
SARAH: Anarchy.
KAYLA: So, the first subtitle thing, I guess, is, Love is Abundant and Every Relationship is Unique. And it says relationship anarchy questions the idea that love is a limited resource that can only be real if restricted to a couple, you have capacity to love more than one person in one relationship and the love felt for that person does not diminish love felt for another, don’t rank and compare people in relationships, cherish the individual and your connection to them. One person in your life does not need to be named primary for the relationship to be real, each relationship is independent and a relationship between autonomous individuals.
[00:10:00]
SARAH: Yes. Can I, real quick, say, the part where it says, you have capacity to love more than one person in one relationship and the love felt for that person is not diminished when felt for another, when I was little, I was convinced that you could only ever be in love with one person in your life and that’s the person you married
KAYLA: At a time?
SARAH: Oh no! Like, total, ever.
KAYLA: Oh, so you thought you couldn't love your parents?
SARAH: No, I'm talking about, like, romantic love. Like, being in love with someone. I thought you could only be in love with one person in your entire life. I thought that was how it worked.
KAYLA: Oh. Hmm. I don't know if I thought that. Probably.
SARAH: But like, and not just like when I was little, solidly like, into middle school I thought that.
KAYLA: Oh, that's a little old.
SARAH: I was an aro-ace baby and I didn't understand anything.
KAYLA: No, that's fair.
SARAH: Okay, but anyway.
KAYLA: But anyway, so the person that sent this in was telling us that this… the relationship anarchy is typically more for people in, it was like made for or used more by people in polyamorous relationships. Which I think like very much comes through in this description of like, you know, you can love more than one person at once and it doesn't diminish them. We have an episode quite old at this point with a friend of ours who often has polyamorous relationships. I'll also link that because I think it goes into a lot of this. There's similar topics come up when we were talking to them.
SARAH: Yeah. I definitely found this very interesting. Actually, before we talk too much, do you want to just like, let's read the headers for everything else.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: So, then it says, Love and respect instead of entitlement. Find your course out of relationship values. Heterosexism is rampant and out there, but don't let fear lead you. Build for the lovely unexpected. Fake it till you make it. Trust is better. Change through communication and customize your commitments. All of these together are basically just saying, you know, trust your partners and like trust the people that you love and, you know, communicate with them. Which I feel like a lot of the things that they say in this were not viewed through the lens of like, this is a manifesto or like very, very valid points. And I think the thing that at first I was like, this scares me, was that it reads to me, I think it's also just the use of the word manifesto, it reads to me like a lot of very like far left, like communist style writings. And that is to say that my brain looks at this and it thinks it's very idealistic and I like the ideas behind it and I like the inequality or just the issues that it's intending to address, but it feels like it's too idealistic. My brain is like, this would never work in the real world. But I also have this huge bias of being raised in an aggressively capitalist system that is very inherently racist and sexist, so anything that approaches true equality is somewhere in my brain stamped like, impossible, we should not attempt. Just as a result of being raised in the United States. But looking at the ideas in this, like, I like them. I like them a lot. And I think that a lot of these mindsets are something that people should really consider in their lives, even if they aren't going to become a so-called relationship anarchist. Like, I think the ideas of not necessarily prioritizing certain, like, I guess just not following the norms of how you should be treating your relationships is something that I definitely agree with, because I think the norms are shit.
KAYLA: Right, I think, yeah, I think a lot of it is very idealistic, but I do think that they're good things to strive for. But yeah, I mean, some of them, like, the one that really got me was like, so under trust is better. It's choosing to assume that your partner does not wish you harm leads you down a much more positive path than just than a distrustful approach where you need to constantly be validated by the other person. For me, especially, I was like, oh, well, wouldn't that be nice? And is that the end goal of me going to therapy? I guess.
SARAH: Yeah, I was also going to say…
KAYLA: It’s not something I can just do.
SARAH: Yeah, I was going to say, like, for you, that's like a specifically you issue.
KAYLA: Yes. Yeah, I mean, that is a very specifically me issue. And like, if you're, oh, did know we didn't do the Enneagram on this podcast.
SARAH: No
KAYLA: We talked about it? we might have. But I, if you're familiar with Enneagrams, it's a personality test. I'm very much so a six. And that like, really describes everything about me. But either way, even if this was not a specifically me thing, a lot of these things are kind of very ideal in the way of like, ah, yes, just do this. And yes, good.
SARAH: Yeah, it just really reminds me of communism.
KAYLA: I mean, yeah, it is very ideal. And it's very like free-flowing, I guess, even like, even the idea of what is it, build for the lovely unexpected of like, you be free to be spontaneous and like, just do things. But like, it even contradicts itself there because in saying you know, that communication is really important. You can't be fully spontaneous because you still need to communicate.
SARAH: Right. And it says like talk about like find your core set of relationship values, like what are your boundaries. And they're basically saying like, they also are talking about like, don't have a foundation of entitlement, like you don't have to compromise necessarily, like you can engage with each other without… my dog is barking.
KAYLA: Yes, she really is. I can hear it
SARAH: I don't know if the listeners can hear it, but that is a loud lawn mower. Jesus.
KAYLA: Oh my God. It says really going for it.
SARAH: Yeah, I don't know what… there's probably a dog walking by there's got to be that's the only thing that gets her barking like that is a dog walking by our house.
KAYLA: Good.
SARAH: So, it says, explore how you can engage without stepping over boundaries and personal beliefs, rather than looking for compromises in every situation. Let loved ones choose paths that keep their integrity intact without letting this mean a crisis for the relationship, which I mean, I think that's cool. But there are I guess it depends on the type of relationship you have with this person. Like if it's, I guess I'm thinking of things in terms of like monogamy and like committed relationship like marriage, like you got to have a you're going to have to compromise on some stuff. But because this is talking about more, it's a little bit more polyamorous, a little bit more free-flowing, it's something that I guess, maybe can be achieved a little bit more if you're not, I'm just kind of stuck in this. I'm stuck in the mindset that American society places on me of what relationships look like.
KAYLA: Yeah, and I guess when I was reading this, I was kind of thinking more generally too, if not just in terms of like, polyamory or things.
SARAH: Oh, absolutely.
KAYLA: Having to do exactly with relationship. But yeah, especially the part where it was like, it's like, love is not more real when people compromise for each other, because it's part of what it's expected. But it's like, sometimes you really do have to compromise.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You really, really do sometimes, like there's no option. Like you said, sometimes you just got to.
SARAH: Yeah. And it's like, I definitely like the idea of like, holding to your values and understanding that other people might have different values and just like, accepting that. But I do think there is some level of compromise that is required in any relationship.
KAYLA: Yeah.I guess when I was reading this, so I know of some people in my life who recently started being polyamorous, but like, there was not a great amount of communication before it happened, I guess. And I have other people in my life who live polyamorous lifestyles who do have just a different level or a different way of communicating.
SARAH: Communication is key, guac is extra.
KAYLA: Yes. Yes. And so, it was just interesting as I read this of like, and I've also thought about this a lot as this has come up of like, what I would do in a polyamorous relationship situation, because I, first of all, would hate it. I just know that about myself.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But it's just, especially reading this, it's so hard because like that kind of thing, and we talked about this in the Polyamory episode, it just takes so much communication and like, planning and like really setting those boundaries and knowing like what's okay for you and what's okay for your partner or partners, which like, I think makes some of this hard.
SARAH: Yeah, because a lot of things to work, it has to you have to communicate so much.
KAYLA: Yeah, like you can't be fully like spontaneous and you also like, and I know we're like really picking at this like very specifically and this is probably meant to be more of an overarching thing.
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Yeah, I feel like…
KAYLA: We are criticizing this a lot.
SARAH: We are going deep on criticizing it, but I do think overall it's good.
KAYLA: Yeah, but like…
SARAH: There's my statement. Go.
KAYLA: But like the thing is like if it's saying like don't compromise, like what if you are in a polyamorous relationship with like you and two other people and like you would like to add a third person and the other people are like no thank you, but I'm not supposed to compromise? Like what happens there? Do we all just break up?
SARAH: Oh, yeah.
KAYLA: Like what do we...
SARAH: I guess I was like well the compromise would be you wouldn't add a third person, but that's not a compromise.
KAYLA: That situation is hard because there's not a real way to compromise on that one.
SARAH: Yeah, there is no compromise. You add half a person. You cut them in half.
KAYLA: Which way?
SARAH: I don't know. If a dog were to wear pants, would they wear it like this or like this?
KAYLA: Yeah. It is one of those. But for an example to actually make sense like what do you do if you're not supposed to compromise but you have these like big situations, you know?
SARAH: Yeah, that's much realer. I was more thinking about like one of you wants chipotle for dinner, someone else wants olive garden for dinner, and so instead of compromising one of you goes to chipotle and one of you goes to olive garden and you eat by yourself.
KAYLA: No, that's even easier. You both just use DoorDash and deliver them to your home and you can still eat together. Easy. Next.
SARAH: Wow, you got me there.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: So okay, we've spent a lot of time criticizing this, but also the person that sent it to us thought it was interesting, at least I think it's interesting, to look at it through an asexual lens as well. So, let's talk about the good things about this now that we've slammed it.
SARAH: Now that we've slammed it into the ground and beat it up. I do have a lot of good things to say about it. I think it, especially just reading that first paragraph, like the first thing that came to my mind was the idea, like the concept of like best friends. Like little kids will be like, oh I have my first best friend and my second-best friend.
KAYLA: Oh yeah, I was a brat of a child and you know I did things like that.
SARAH: Yeah, like what the fuck? And so I like…
KAYLA: Do you know what I did as a child?
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: It was like fourth grade and I thought that I could only have like one group of friends and so I like picked between them and made it like a big thing.
SARAH: Oh God.
KAYLA: Because I did not, I was unaware that I could have a multitude of friends.
SARAH: I had this whole like very dramatic thing where I decided I didn't want to be friends with one of my friends anymore and I like wrote out this whole plan about how to not be friends with them anymore.
KAYLA: That's elaborate.
SARAH: Well yeah, because I am so non-confrontational that I was like this is my passive aggressive way of not being friends. There was like a whole journal about it and I was like oh god this is bad. Anyway.
KAYLA: I also once decided pigs used to be my favorite animal for a very long time. I was very passionate about them.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: And it was like my thing and then I decided that they weren't my favorite animal anymore and my friend got very mad at me.
SARAH: Oh no.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay anyway.
KAYLA: I was a brat so I deserved it. Anyway.
SARAH: I don't I don't think that I was a brat. I was just weird.
KAYLA: I have on good record that I was the worst child ever.
SARAH: I could I could see that.
KAYLA: Hey what the fuck.
SARAH: I could see it based on the things you've told me about your childhood. I could see it.
KAYLA: Okay yeah okay but based on me now would you see it?
SARAH: Oh, I don't know.
KAYLA: Whatever.
SARAH: It just checks out based off the things you said. Anyway okay.
KAYLA: Based on those things like I'm evil.
SARAH: The idea of like first best friend, second best friend like… sorry that's a loud dishwasher. It's not a dishwasher. Oh no. I've done it again. Okay but I like how this like relationship anarchy takes that and it says there's no hierarchy. You just appreciate all of your relationships for what they are. They're all different and they matter in different ways to you and I think that's a very healthy way of looking at things. Like I am I kind of I was kind of the kind of person where like I got to college and I was like okay well like I have like my high school best friend and then you were like my college best friend
KAYLA: And now I’m not
SARAH: And then I was like well then I have like my Quidditch best friend. It's like you don't need to like yeah, it's not like there's a hierarchy there like you are very good friends with all of these people and like you don't need to have like a… well this one is my best best friend unless you're getting married in which case you do need a maid of honor. Well you don't actually but…
KAYLA: You don't need anything but that's also where siblings come in handy because then you don't have to pick between your friends.
SARAH: Exactly, anyway but like…
KAYLA: But if you have multiple siblings you do have to pick between them.
SARAH: Yeah, sucks
KAYLA: Yeah, we don't have that
SARAH: But anyway, but I like the idea of how it says like there's no hierarchy like you get to appreciate all of your relationships for what they are and I think… like that's something that I have like learned to do and like not necessarily compare my relationships and that's nice I enjoy it.
KAYLA: Indeed, I think it also like kind of goes along with the love and respect instead of entitlement thing of like… because I think looking at it that way of like looking at real relationships not even necessarily as more equal because like obviously, you're going to have some relationships in your life that like just matter more to you
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And like you spend more time on than others like I don't know at first when I read this I felt pressured at first to like make all of my relationships very equal and then I was like no
SARAH: Yeah, that's not that's not what it's saying
KAYLA: The point of this is that I have like the relationships that are important to me are important to me and those don't necessarily have to follow like norms and like whatever it is that's okay
SARAH: Yeah. And if you're a person in one of those relationships understand that all of the relationships are different and you don't have to compare yourself to the other people that the person is in relationships with
KAYLA: Yeah, and I think like with… like not having entitlement part it's of like you know you don't own this person and like you being aware of like this person is in other relationships of other kinds and like that okay
SARAH: Yeah. And I think to me it definitely does like validate my strong opinion that like romantic and sexual relationships shouldn't inherently be the most important relationship because it basically tears that down entirely of saying that there is a most important relationship you know and so I mean that just validates me
KAYLA: Oh my God
SARAH: But like I mean I definitely have a bias with my feeling that way because I'm aro-ace and I don't anticipate necessarily having a relationship like that like I want to still feel loved
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: But like just like the knowledge that like you can love and prioritize different types of relationships and there is no one like standard way of like you have to do it this way I think thinking that way is very healthy for all of your relationships
KAYLA: Mm-hmm, this is a bit off topic but the one of the like biggest transitions of like moving away from college and like meeting new people which has been like really interesting for just how I think about like myself and my relationships I think is that in college most of my friends didn't date or like didn't often have relationships
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And I did and so it just kind of impacted the way I thought about like myself and like how relationships work
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And now I am surrounded like almost I think like 90% of the people I work with are in long-term relationships and…
SARAH: Fucking allos am I right ladies
KAYLA: You're so right but it is… it's just very interesting of like how being surrounded by that really like changes how you think about it and it also… this is like sad that it took this for me to like really sympathize with this I think but I also was like it makes me understand even more why people need to be around people that are like them and like not that like we need to be like sectioned off and segregated but of like how it…
SARAH: Put the allos over there
KAYLA: Over there, but like just the importance of like finding the amount of community that you would like and like seeing yourself represented or like having people to kind of like talk to or commiserate with
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because I was just like oh it's like nice to have other people that are like going through the same things as me or like are making similar life choices as I am and I was like oh this is what people want
SARAH: Oh man this this really took a turn for me, it went from me being like fuck yeah like all relationships hierarchies no they're all great to me being like oh no all of my friends are going to get into relationships and leave, what a roller-coaster
KAYLA: No, but I don't think that's true at all but I mean legitimate thing to worry about and I understand why you're worried about it, but I do… no stop like it is very isolated to where I work though I think like I have never before been in such a concentrated area of people with relationships so I do think it's an anomaly
[00:30:00]
SARAH: All right, but I mean a lot of people do have relationships
KAYLA: That's true, but like if there's one thing that I hope will like make you feel better is that like all of these people still spend a lot of time with friends, like…
SARAH: Because they're not fools
KAYLA: Because they're not fools, like the one… my one new work friend like lives with her boyfriend but she like still has been like spends lots of time with like me and our other work friends and like makes time to like do stuff like that so
SARAH: Yeah I was talking to a friend recently and they were saying that they have a friend who's relationship and their significant other is really like always being like well why didn't you invite me to this thing with your friends and it's like because I can have relationships with my friends outside of my relationship with you like yeah I don't like that where it's like I need to be invited to everything like fuck that shit no like do you really want to go to everything that your partner does like that seems exhausting and….
KAYLA: That seems boring
SARAH: Your interests hopefully overlap but they’re not, the Venn diagram is not a circle like
KAYLA: Yeah, so like yeah I don't know you'll still have friends
SARAH: Anyway, changing the topic I did also like the part where um it's saying like although I do have some issues with the section where it says like be free to be spontaneous as we talked about…
KAYLA: That one is just scary to me I don't like being spontaneous in any part of my life
SARAH: Oh, I'm okay with it, I'm definitely more okay with it than you are
KAYLA: Yes, I like a plan
SARAH: Yeah, I'm just like… If we plan if we plan for a set day where we will be spontaneous
KAYLA: Oh my God
SARAH: You sound like my sister
KAYLA: Sorry
SARAH: Today I spontaneously walked the dog
KAYLA: I’m I your sister
SARAH: Uh no, not at all
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: You and my sister are very different
KAYLA: Welp
SARAH: But it says like free to express oneself without fear of punishments or a sense of burdened shoulds which like living your life without the burden of should very good my therapist taught me that
KAYLA: Same. My therapist also taught me that.
SARAH: Oh nice
KAYLA: Good
SARAH: Living your life with you should do this and you should do that, it's not good for you it's not healthy, talk to your therapist about it
KAYLA: Talk to your therapist, hey have you heard about our lord and savior not shoulding
SARAH: Not shooting this episode is brought to you by not shoulding
KAYLA: Can we have a shirt that says don't should
SARAH: Don't should
KAYLA: Like should, the verb of should
SARAH: Yeah, I like this concept, I like where this is going
KAYLA: Don't should. Let us know, please let us know if you would buy a t-shirt that says don't should
SARAH: Oh, I love that
KAYLA: Because I'm kind of really into it
SARAH: I was into it until I remembered that I would have to make it on Photoshop and then I'm not into it anymore
KAYLA: I'm still into it, so now you guys have to break the tie
SARAH: Amazing
KAYLA: I'm really into don't should
SARAH: Don't should
KAYLA: Like it’s kind of like outside of a t-shirt like I'm kind of a big fan of that
SARAH: Oh yeah I've I found myself shoulding more recently and I was like…
KAYLA: I should all the time I'm a non-stop shudder that's me
SARAH: No Kayla you got to stop shoulding, don't should
KAYLA: Non-stop shoulder
SARAH: I don't think you should as a word anymore
KAYLA: It's sounding more and more fake as we go
SARAH: That's why you should not do it, it's fake and… it sounds fake… it sounds fake…
KAYLA: Don't should me
SARAH: It sounds fake but it's not okay
KAYLA: It is okay because we're going to put it on a t-shirt
SARAH: That's so true, yeah see we use should so often that you use it you don't even realize you just used it
KAYLA: What if you went a whole day without using the word should
SARAH: It would be very hard, well what my therapist told me is that when I think I… when I think I should do something instead of doing that if it's like should…
KAYLA: I do the opposite
SARAH: Like if it's like I should take a shower, I should be like I'd like to take a shower I'm going to take a shower let's take a shower
KAYLA: See but that’s never true for me
SARAH: Well, no but you would like to do it because it's something that it's like this is something that I as a person would like to do even if it's not like I want to do this
KAYLA: No never the only reason I ever shower is because I should
SARAH: See this is where we're different people
KAYLA: If the societal… you also hate showering
SARAH: No I know that it's just our approach to getting this advice is very different
KAYLA: Well I take the should advice usually but for things that I vehemently hate such as showering. All right it was a bad example
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Oh no
SARAH: Anywho, I'm just going to Google relationship anarchy and see what comes up because I want to see like are people talking about this
KAYLA: Yeah, it's also such a strong term
SARAH: It is a lot for me it does like describe what the person is saying, there's a whole Wikipedia
KAYLA: It kind of does I think it describes…
SARAH: What would you name it?
KAYLA: Well, I don't know but I do think it describes…
SARAH: There’s a symbol
KAYLA: Okay can you let me talk?
SARAH: I don't think I can
KAYLA: Communication I think it describes it and that it's saying like fuck the rules but I also don't thought I don't think that the concept is itself anarchistic I think it's anarchistic and that it's saying fuck the rules but like it's saying you know you should communicate and I feel like when I think of anarchy I don't think of like healthy communication you know
SARAH: It is weird because it is saying fuck the rules but then this manifesto is specifically making different rules for you to follow
KAYLA: Well, it's saying fuck society's rules and here are… And here are…
SARAH: And here are my rules
KAYLA: A better
SARAH: Which are better
KAYLA: More healthier Jesus like healthier more idealistic set of rules that I think are cooler and not as constructing and heteronormative as society's rules
SARAH: Yeah I think what's also interesting that can really relate… so I'm looking at the Wikipedia right now they can also relate a lot to asexuality maybe and maybe…
KAYLA: Oh right we were going to talk about that
SARAH: Well yeah we kind of did
KAYLA: We kind of did
SARAH: Um so this part of Wikipedia says relationship anarchists look at each relationship individually as opposed to categorizing them according to societal norms such as just friends in a relationship or in an open relationship which I think is interesting because I think a lot of things that I see like people asking like or talking about in the discord is like how do I know if this person wants to be like more than friends or like if I have a squish or a crush or like if I'm actually flirting with someone which are like all obviously legitimate concerns but I think relationship anarchy is not necessarily a way to fix that but is a different way of looking at it. I think.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's reframing it. Where it's like just let the relationship be what it is.
SARAH: Oh, it has its roots in the free love movement that makes a lot of sense. That checks out. Yeah but I think I think that idea of like just letting the relationship be what it is and I was thinking about this the other day I was thinking about how in the past when I…. when I wasn't sure if I was aro just like in the past where I was just like I'm not sure if this is a crush or a squish like I can't tell and ultimately because I'm me, I… in my head I was like I decided no it was not a crush but I think what I really just decided to do was be very non-confrontational and just not do anything. Classic Sarah. But like looking at it through this lens it's like I just let those relationships be as they were and then I ended up here aro.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think I wonder what relationship anarchy has to say about like labeling sexualities and stuff like that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because it almost seems to me like it would be con labels.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because for you by deciding you wanted to label yourself as aro you like almost took.
SARAH: I guess that was an active choice I guess yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean obviously you don't decide that you are aro but you decided that you would like to label yourself that way.
SARAH: Yeah, but in choosing that label I put myself in a box.
KAYLA: Right and obviously that doesn't keep you from having romantic relationships because everything is fluid and you can do whatever you want.
SARAH: Nothing is real.
KAYLA: Nothing is real but it does constrict you in some sense because if you wanted to have a romantic relationship you would then have to make some decisions.
SARAH: I would have to make some decisions and I would have to again communicate with a person and be like hey I know I previously said I was aro but also.
KAYLA: Just kidding.
SARAH: Yeah, but also like I think I'm into you but also knowing me I would just be like… no, run away.
KAYLA: Oh interesting.
SARAH: Classic Sarah move. Run away.
KAYLA: That is a good Sarah move.
SARAH: Incredible. All right do you have anything else to say about relationship anarchy? I think it's a cool idea. I think it's complicated in application but so is everything good. Like so is medicare for all you know.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean I think it's complicated in many of the ways that just polyamory in general is complicated, or like the perfect ideal of polyamory
[00:40:00]
SARAH: Relationships are complicated and that's…
KAYLA: That’s how it is
SARAH: You're not going to change that. And so I think this is a… it is a healthy way of approaching it even if it has its flaws like I think it is… it's good to not be comparing everything to each other and butting against each other and it's… very when I saw that it was written by a swede I was like yeah because in America.
KAYLA: I know this is going to be good.
SARAH: An American would never fucking write this shit because Americans for biases as me where I'm just like capitalism, and be able to like unlearn all the Americanness that you've been taught your whole life.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think at the very least it's an interesting theoretical idea to like kind of open your mind or at least like remind you of like what society is doing.
SARAH: Yeah, and I think a lot of the individual ideas are good practice even if you don't embrace all of them to the same extent.
KAYLA: Even if you're in a monogamous relationship I think a lot of these are.
SARAH: Oh yeah definitely.
KAYLA: Did I say you're not in a monogamous right?
SARAH: No, you said you are.
KAYLA: If you are monogamous, it's still good stuff to like think about.
SARAH: Even if you're aro-ace or you're ace-spec and you don't have romantic or sexual relationships or even if you're not but you don't have them right now I think…
KAYLA: Still good to think about
SARAH: It’s a good way to think about your relationships and I encourage you to think about your relationships this way. What is our poll for the week?
KAYLA: Don't should?
SARAH: That's not a poll, that's a statement.
KAYLA: No, it's a question.
SARAH: Don't should?
KAYLA: There was a there was a lift in my voice at the end you may have missed it.
SARAH: Okay, that's going to be our secondary poll.
KAYLA: Okay, what's our first?
SARAH: Our primary poll I think we should ask about relationship anarchy because I think it is a really interesting concept.
KAYLA: I guess we can stay on topic fine
SARAH: Uh I guess what… I mean we could just say like relationship anarchy yes I'm going to embrace it now. Uh the other option being yes I like some of the ideas but I this isn't going to fit anything but I like idealistic but I like the ideas.
KAYLA: Wait. Can we do an open-ended poll?
SARAH: Oh sure.
KAYLA: Because we haven't done one in a while but I think I would just like to hear like what people think about it like especially from an Aro-ace perspective.
SARAH: Yeah, okay that's good so open ended poll relationship anarchy question mark secondary poll don't should question mark yes/no that one is not open ended.
KAYLA: It's not, there's not even a maybe.
SARAH: No maybes, don't should, wait so if you if you don't should if you think shoulding is bad the answer would be yes because
KAYLA: No I said…
SARAH: Don't should question mark
KAYLA: Yes I wrote don't should t-shirts so it's…
SARAH: That is not the question
KAYLA: It is
SARAH: God damn it
KAYLA: Too late I do it, me me me me me.
SARAH: Okay all right, them is our polls
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: What is your beef and juice this week
KAYLA: Oh boy, my beef is that now that I've turned adult
SARAH: Turned adult
KAYLA: Holidays are ruined because they're fun while they happen but then you go to work after and you say oh my week is going to be bad because now I have to make up for everything that I missed and it’s bad.
SARAH: Well, those of us over here on the unemployment train are just chugging along
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: Kayla was like Sarah you need to update your bio or like give me an updated bio for the website because it says I am in school and I'm not anymore and I sent her some great ideas, let me read them to you um unemployed by day unemployed by night aro in the streets, ace in the sheets, I just took a DNA test turns out I'm 100% in a mid-midlife crisis and Kayla just said those are all accurate so
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: There's that. okay what's your juice
KAYLA: Do we do them… aren't you supposed to do your beef and then we do our juices how do we do this
SARAH: Nope, I just usually go first but this is a great change of pace you do your juice
KAYLA: Oh wow shocking. Uh, my juice is it's starting to get cooler, that's nice
SARAH: That is nice
KAYLA: I can start wearing some sweatshirts
SARAH: Mm-hmm, a bid mood
KAYLA: I have friends now
SARAH: Yay, Kayla has friends, Kayla has friends
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Applaud her
KAYLA: I'll leave space… I'll give you some silence to applaud, ready?
SARAH: A nice little golf clap
KAYLA: Thank you uh yeah
SARAH: Nice, my beef is Scarlett Johansson what are you doing please stop look…
KAYLA: I love the memes though
SARAH: I love the character of Natasha Romanoff in the Marvel Cinematic Universe I love her so much I wish I could like Scarlett Johansson but she just keeps saying problematic things, also she doesn't make sense she's like… she's like in Tiger White T.D.'s Nazi satire film Jojo Rabbit and then she talks about how she supports Elizabeth Warren and then in the same goddamn interview is like I support Woody Allen and like I should be allowed to play any person of any race or gender identity like ScarJo or no…
KAYLA: Or a tree. She said she could play a tree, she said that
SARAH: Let her be Groot.
KAYLA: I do love the Scarlett Johansson memes though
SARAH: Yeah, it's just I… she doesn't make sense to me but I love a lot of the things she's in and a lot of the characters she plays and I'm just like…
KAYLA: She's a lot
SARAH: There's that. My juice is the Moulin Rouge Broadway cast recording it came out last week it is so good they changed a lot of the songs to like modernize it uh because the movie came out in what 2001 um it's great there's a couple songs where, like some of them more like straight covers I'm just like eh Chandelier is good though
KAYLA: Yeah I listened to most of it and I am not convinced yet, I didn't like it as much as I wanted to like it
SARAH: I think like some of the songs require more than one listen to like really get them because they're like basically for those of you who don't know Moulin Rouge is a movie that came out in 2001 with Nicole Kidman and Ewan McGregor it is now on Broadway with Aaron Tavett and Karen Olivo we stan, but it would… it's basically a bunch of like covers of songs that are kind of like mashed up is like the concept of most of the music and so you got to really listen to it especially like Elephant Love Medley which is like the big mashup you have to listen to it so many times before you really grasp it
KAYLA: Yeah, but they changed it
SARAH: I know
KAYLA: So much
SARAH: And I think… they did change it and at first I was like why did they change it so much but I I like both Kayla speaking of relationship anarchy I have just… I'm not comparing the Moulin Rouge recordings to each other they're just different they're separately I will however compare the two nature boys the David Bowie one is superior
KAYLA: I just have such a strong connection to the movie I think is the problem like I have such fond memories of the movie and the music and it really is one of my favorite movies and I think that's where I'm having the problem
SARAH: I'm able to just separate them and I think they're both very good and they're very different and now I kind of like that they're different because it's easier to not compare them when it's entirely different songs
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean I think once I'm finally able to see it I think I'll really really like it
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I think a lot of times I have this problem with musicals it's like there's some musicals where if I don't see them the music like really just doesn't mean a lot to me
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But yeah it's tough because I really I just have such a strong connection to the movie is the problem
SARAH: Okay but in the song shut up and raise your glass first of all a bop because shut up and dance is a bop and for those of you who don't know I tell everyone every time this is one of the things that I just tell everyone I was there the first time walk the moon ever premiered that song thank you anyway, the specifically the entrance of… entrance? the entrance of Whitney Houston I Want to Dance with Somebody in that song it slaps if you know you know, the other day I was listening to it and it had been a couple of days since I heard that song and that Whitney came in I mean it wasn't Whitney but you know Whitney came in and I gasped I had like forgotten I had forgotten that that was in there and I was just like oh my god this is it so
KAYLA: Well, there you go
SARAH: Cool all right you can tell us about your beef your juice your love of Moulin Rouge on our twitter @soundsfakepod we are also…
KAYLA: Follow us
SARAH: Yeah, follow us so we can get to a thousand because Kayla is thirsty I'm actually thirsty right now let me drink this water
KAYLA: Oh okay
SARAH: Delicious
KAYLA: Oh my God
SARAH: All of our social medias @soundsfakepod, we actually posted on Instagram you're welcome. All right, we also have a Patreon patreon.com/soundsfakepod, again sorry to the patrons whose names we haven't been saying, I don't man know man. Our two dollar patrons are Keith McBlaine, Roxanne, AliceisinSpace, anonymous, Mariah Walter, Jonathan, Christopher T, Birdeary, Patrick Jackson, also Andrew Yang. I can't believe that the presidential candidate has given us money on patreon
KAYLA: It is very wild
SARAH: Sorry Andrew Yang for saying that I just couldn't avoid that joke, uh also Nini and Sarah McCoy thank you all for your kindness, very sorry we haven't been saying your names
[00:50:00]
KAYLA: Very very very sorry say them some extra times
SARAH: Andrew Yang, Nini Sarah McCoy, Sarah McCoy Sarah McCoy Nini and Nini Sarah McCoy, Andrew Yang, Nini, Sarah McCoy, Andrew Yung, is that enough
KAYLA: Uh I guess
SARAH: Okay maybe I'll make a song out of it, to be determined okay. five dollar patrons Jennifer Smart, Asretha Vinokota, Austin Landrieu, Drew Fanny, Perifiero, my aunt Jeannie, Dee, Megan Ryle, Quinn Pollock, Emily Collins, Tim, Ryan Luzietti, Book marvle, and ChangelingMX who moved up from a two dollar patron uh today Changeling is…
KAYLA: I think it's Khhh
SARAH: Okay, our ten dollar patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyunclecoven at tessa underscore m underscore k Arknes who likes to promote the Trevor Project, Benjamin Ibarra who would like to promote tabletop games, Anonymous who would like to promote Halloween, our 15 dollar patrons are Nathaniel White Nathanieljwightdesigns.com, my mom Julie who would like to promote free mom hugs, and Sarah Jones who would like to promote @eternallolly which is that… I always say that wrong @eternallolly everywhere, Sarah Jones. Thanks for listening tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears for our 100th episode.
KAYLA: Oh, get lit and until then take good care of your cows.