Ep 338: Reddit Rabbit Hole pt. 16
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode: ‘Reddit Rabbit Hole,’ part who's to say?
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay.
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Hi.
SARAH: How is everyone? I say with the most excitement anyone has ever said.
KAYLA: Yeah, that was tough. I would love to know if there are any astrologists listening because I had people acting so wild at me today.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And I refuse to confront the realities of our world and understand that it is probably that that has made them this way. And instead, we'll be convinced that there must be something going on with the moon. So, if anyone knows of like any major like astrological things happening in the sky at this time, I tried to look it up, I did not understand the words it was saying at me.
SARAH: Yeah, that’s tough.
KAYLA: So, if anyone could tell me what's going on in the space right now that I could use to blame people being wild, that would be great.
SARAH: Okay, great. I hope you're doing okay.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: Not you. I mean, yeah, you, but just the listeners.
KAYLA: Oh. Oh. Ooooh.
SARAH: Ooooh.
KAYLA: Oookay. I see.
SARAH: I hope everyone is doing good except for Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Putin, Erdogan
KAYLA: Netanyahu.
SARAH: Oh, fuck Netanyahu. Oh, what's his face? Modi. If they're a world leader…
KAYLA: Probably not
SARAH: I probably don't wish upon them the best day.
KAYLA: You wish upon them the day that they deserve.
SARAH: I wish upon them the day that they deserve.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Keir Starmer might be like, okay, maybe he can have an okay day. Wow. My cat is feeling passion.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: So, this is the first pod recording where she has not been in her cone.
KAYLA: Yeah, she's mobile.
SARAH: She's mobile and she has a collar on and it has a little jingle bell on it so that I can always find her.
KAYLA: Yeah, but then you can really always find her.
SARAH: Yes. Um, so if you ever hear a jingly wingling, it's just my kitten running about. Disregard.
KAYLA: I'm just so glad it's not only me now.
SARAH: It's the way of the world.
KAYLA: Now if people hear meowing in the background, they could like, it's not…
SARAH: Which one is it?
KAYLA: Automatically my fault. You know? It's a 50/50
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Shot at whose. I guess it's probably a little bit more…
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Still to me because I have the two of them.
SARAH: Yeah, the two. But the meowing honestly usually doesn't make it through the audio gate.
KAYLA: That's good because they do be screaming, all of them. So, they used to be very quiet cats, and I don't know what happened, they’re very vocal, they have a lot to say.
SARAH: Aww, I just opened the curtain and there's a cat behind it.
KAYLA: Aww, a gift.
SARAH: I was like, “why is this curtain moving?” Okay, do we have any housekeeping? No. Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: We are going to Reddit.
SARAH: Yay.
KAYLA: I didn't look into this at all, I just read a headline, but there's some like Reddit story I think on like r/nosleep or like one of those where people write like a story.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And it's being turned into like a major movie.
SARAH: Oh.
KAYLA: Like they took the plot from this man's like copypasta or whatever, and they're making it a movie because it blew up on Reddit.
SARAH: Oh, that's probably what my boss wants me to do.
KAYLA: You should just start taking these, wait a second, you should start taking these, you're doing research right now.
SARAH: I’m doing research for work.
KAYLA: What do you mean? There are so many… the guy who did the plastic food thing, I think about him weekly
SARAH: Constantly, plastic food. Um, okay. I'm really sad because I… there was one that I wanted to do and I opened it up, and the post is from a suspended account.
KAYLA: Nooooo.
SARAH: So, I can't see the post. But the reply was it's the one where it's the myth of consensual sex. And it's the man going, “I consent” and the woman going, “I consent.” And then the cat going, “I don't.” So sad that we won't be able to get that one today.
KAYLA: That's tough.
SARAH: Okay, this one is supposedly long. So, let's start with it.
KAYLA: Okay, smart.
SARAH: Instead of doing it at the end.
KAYLA: Smart, smart, smart, smart.
SARAH: Okay. Am I the asshole for wanting a divorce from an otherwise good marriage because of unsatisfying sex?
KAYLA: Mm, I don't know.
SARAH: We'll find out. It's like otherwise good marriage, trigger warning, manipulation, coercion, neglect, emotional abuse, stalking.
KAYLA: Oh, so maybe not.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: So maybe not.
SARAH: All right. Me, female, 40s, met my husband, male, 40s, when we were in college, both from very conservative religious backgrounds married super young and had three kids relatively quickly, the youngest will be an adult soon. Oh, the youngest will be an adult soon and you're in your 40s? Okay.
KAYLA: Damn.
SARAH: To say I was sexually repressed would be an understatement. I didn't even have my first orgasm until I was 22 years old and it was practically by accident. How does that happen by accident?
KAYLA: Huh? Interesting.
SARAH: Anyway, sex with my husband has always been satisfactory.
KAYLA: Satisfactory!?
SARAH: What a raving review!?
KAYLA: Sex was satisfactory.
SARAH: In the beginning, especially, it was more about the intimacy and closeness and less about the act itself or getting off. My husband has a hair trigger and gets excited and it's over easily.
KAYLA: Aw. Womp womp.
SARAH: Still to this day over 20 years later, I think he's a premature ejaculator, but no official diagnosis or anything. Get this man a fucking cock ring or whatever they are.
KAYLA: He has anti-Viagra in him.
SARAH: Yeah. So, sex is often over quickly. He doesn't want to leave me hanging, so he will then try to get me off manually. But over 90% of the time, I just fake orgasms to get it over with because I know…
KAYLA: Manually is so funny. I understand what…
SARAH: What they're saying?
KAYLA: They're saying, but like manually is hilarious.
SARAH: I fake it to get it over with because I know he can't get me there. He is not adventurous. He doesn't want to have oral sex, giving or receiving.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: At least he's consistent.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: At least he's not like… he's not just like, no, I don't want to give you… but you need to give me… I don't know what to tell you
KAYLA: This is sad though, this is sad.
SARAH: I just don't want to tell you. He's okay with taking direction, but me just constantly telling him what to do turns into a mood killer for me. Anytime I discuss working on our sex life, he shuts down. Based on the experience we had about 12 or 13 years ago, when we went to therapy for something that happened, not related to our marriage, he will not entertain the thought of therapy. Not sure if it's because of the sex, but I'm only sometimes attracted to him. Some days I see him and I'm sure I have hearts in my eyes. Other times, especially in bed, I feel nothing. I have faked being asleep to avoid sex with him. Other times I will initiate sex and basically use him like a sex toy out of respect, but I no longer feel any emotional connection.
KAYLA: That is funny.
SARAH: Aside from sex, our marriage is great. We have raised wonderful humans. He loves and dotes on me. He still sends flower to my work. He's patient and thoughtful and listens. He's affectionate and always wants hugs or cuddles. He has always been good about sharing housework and responsibilities. He has always been a super hands-on dad. My family loves him and his family loves me. We have a lot of shared hobbies and interests, I genuinely enjoy his company. I don't know if this is a midlife crisis, but I have a constant nagging thought that this is it and I hate it. I've chosen to be married to him, which means I will never have a single enjoyable sexual experience with another human being for the rest of my life. I am not an ultimatum person and even if I gave him one, he's not going to magically turn into a good sexual partner. I have the number of some divorce lawyers and I'm thinking of calling them and just exploring. Sometimes the idea of being single is terrifying and sometimes I think it's not so bad. When I told my best friend, she flipped out. She said she would never speak with me again if I did this and I had lost my mind. She said it would be horrible and I would ruin a good man's life. Am I the asshole? No. There's a lot more updates.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Okay, first update, yes, I own a vibrator. He does not want it used during sex.
KAYLA: Okay, tough.
SARAH: I just have questions about the... I can see if he is not comfortable with oral sex for whatever reason.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay. But why would he not be comfortable with...
KAYLA: My suspicion about why he does not... because she said he shuts down when they talk about sex. He's refusing to go to therapy, whatever. My theory is that he is very self-conscious about his performance and how bad he seems to be and that's why he like doesn't want to talk about it. So, I wonder if like using...
SARAH: He doesn't want to feel like he has to get help.
KAYLA: Right. I think it would maybe make him feel even more inadequate if he had to use a tool which isn't... like it's fine.
SARAH: Yeah. Does he know that she's faking it 90% of the time?
KAYLA: I doubt it.
SARAH: Because if he did, then maybe...
KAYLA: You can't know that and then continue, that's crazy.
SARAH: But maybe if she told him that, he would be more inclined to be willing to try other means. I don't know. Okay. I have tried introducing porn, he is not open to it. I have been to therapy and will definitely be going again to a counselor, he is not open to it. Oh, here we go. I am not a convincing liar and in most cases he knows I'm faking orgasms. He frequently questions whether I just faked it and he also now sees it as a signal for throwing in the towel and is okay to just stop there and cuddle.
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: Ugh.
SARAH: I have been blunt and open and honest about it. He shuts down. He will walk away or cry or sometimes say he's open to change but then nothing will actually change. There's more updates, they just keep going. Where are we at right now? How are we feeling?
KAYLA: I think he's deeply insecure and he's not willing to face it because that is a lot.
SARAH: I think he would benefit a lot from counseling.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: And if she brings to him, not as an ultimatum like, “oh, if you don't go to therapy, I'm divorcing you.”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But if she brings to him like, “I genuinely have thought about divorce just because of this thing,” that might give him the kick in the ass needed to unpack his issues.
KAYLA: Yeah. Here's the thing, and I feel like we say this about a lot of Reddit stories where people are like, “is it wrong to break up with someone for X, Y, Z reason?” It is never just the reason, plain and simple. She is not divorcing him because their sex is bad. She's thinking about divorcing him because their sex is bad, she has brought that to the table and he refuses to work on it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And that is not… you can't just refuse to work on a problem in a relationship, that's not okay, whatever the problem is.
SARAH: Yeah. But like he seems to still want to continue having sex with her, but he's not willing to make a change.
KAYLA: Right. Or just admit like, “I can't make a change.” If you can't do the change, that happens, but you need to like, don't lie about it. Just say you can't do it.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. Here's the first… I guess the second update.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Thanks everyone for your input. I wanted to hear it good and bad. I made an appointment with a therapist for the end of this week. I'm working on a list of things I would like to see change, working on limiting his alcohol consumption, addressing his health issues/obesity, not avoiding difficult conversations. In addition to the sexual issues and we'll work with a therapist to figure out how to address them. A lot of what is going through my mind right now was the result of having 10 days to myself, where he had to travel to Asia for work and how happy and easy my life felt during that time. He was texting and calling constantly telling me how much he missed being home while I was loving ‘single life’ where I cooked whatever meals I wanted and went out where I wanted and went on hikes and had coffee with coworkers and hung out with my youngest, just the two of us.
KAYLA: Okay. So, it seems like it's not just the sex thing.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. I was masturbating at least once a day and having amazing orgasms. If I had thrown casual sex into the mix in that time, I probably would have been the happiest I've been in years. When he got back, he looked like absolute shit and said, “I never want to be apart that long again.”
KAYLA: Oh, no.
SARAH: We had sex within an hour of him coming home and afterwards he was blissed out and I was numb. I think that's when it hit me how much more he gets from our relationship, whether we stay together or not, something needs to change.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's clearly not just the sex. If you were away from each other for 10 days and you're like, “this is the happiest I've ever been.”
SARAH: Yeah. Like she's saying that like the relationship is otherwise perfect…
KAYLA: I don’t think so
SARAH: But like, it seems to me that the relationship is perfect for him.
KAYLA: Yeah. Or perfect on paper.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Like she said all the things like, “Oh, he does this.” “He's great with our kids,” whatever.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like it's great on paper, but that's not everything.
SARAH: Yeah. It also matters like how you feel about this person, not just like, “do they check the boxes?”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And maybe he has never checked the boxes and you're only just now coming to terms with it because you had that moment of realizing like, “Oh, this is it.”
KAYLA: Also, I mean, if they got married so young, were both raised, it seems like in very conservative households. So, they didn't know there was a lot of options. Had kids young, their whole relationship has been based around raising their children.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Now they're almost adults.
SARAH: Yeah, their kids are adults.
KAYLA: Like that does change. I have to imagine I've never had grown children. I have to assume that changes things.
SARAH: Yeah. It changes the dynamic.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Empty nesters. All right. A couple of months later…
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: Or I guess a month and a half later.
KAYLA: Time jump.
SARAH: Time jump. They posted another update.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: So, this person says, “this is long and rambling, so the TLDR version is in therapy and things are the same or maybe worse.”
KAYLA: Oh. Uh-oh.
SARAH: I took all the comments to heart, particularly the critical ones. I met with two divorce lawyers that week to chat through what divorce could look like. At the time, I didn't expect it to be contentious, but I just wanted to know what the process would be. We have our house and some other assets in trust, and we've been together so long that I wasn't sure how simple it would be to… a weird typo.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: It says would be tonight unwind. I think just to… to… to… whatever.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I love the house and I was the one who did most of the design and renovations, so my plan was to offer to buy him out if it came to that. I sat my husband down and I told him that I met with lawyers and he said, “I know.” Here's where the true content warnings come in.
KAYLA: Oh, no.
SARAH: It turns out he has been tracking me on ‘Find My Friends’ non-stop 24/7 and that one of the offices was the only address he didn't recognize as one of my usual haunts, so he drove by it.
KAYLA: Ugh.
SARAH: I didn't ask about the second one I saw, but it's next to a big shopping mall we frequent so I think he must've just assumed that's where I was. I asked if he thought I was having an affair and he replied with, “no, I know you're not.” Well, yeah, because you're tracking me, I guess. Listen, a lot of people have their loved ones on like ‘Find My Friends.’
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But this seems a little excessive.
KAYLA: I think, yes, monitoring it like that is not… yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. It's like, “oh, where are they? Let me check.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Anyway, he said he knew this was coming and wanted to do whatever it took to fix things. I told him, I don't know if that's going to be possible, but at a minimum, I would need one, couples’ counseling for us. Two, at least one visit to a sex therapist. Three, individual therapy for him, and four, for him to sort out his health, follow the new diet from the endocrinologist, take the meds he has been prescribed, use CPAP consistently, et cetera. So, he has been prescribed meds and he's not taking them?
KAYLA: Oh, no, king.
SARAH: I told him I'll be with him every step of the way and support him and all of it, but nothing was going to happen unless he took initiative. I asked him what he needed from me and all he said was, “no more talk of breaking up or divorce.” I said okay to this and I told him that I knew he hated administrative tasks like making appointments and getting insurance approvals, I could help with all of those things, even his. At first, he agreed with the plan and vehemently insisted he was on board. Finding an available LMFT with an appointment, I don't know what that is, was not easy, but I managed to find one that was in Newark and they had an opening two days later. Husband hemmed and hawed about going because it was so soon. Then he said, “it's a woman, so you and she will just gang up on me.”
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: I canceled that appointment and it wasn't easy, but I found a male therapist who could squeeze us in for the following week. I found a different male therapist for him to see alone, but that appointment was three weeks out. I also made a follow-up endocrinologist appointment for him that hasn't happened yet and he still hasn't filled his prescriptions or started the diet. On the day of the therapy appointment, which was 6pm on a Thursday, I'm in the waiting room 10 minutes before the appointment when my husband texts, “emergency at work, be there a little late.”
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: This man has had the same job for 23 years and the only time there was an emergency that would have required him to stay that late was when someone literally died. The therapist comes out and introduces himself. I go in and when I explain the situation, he tells me that he's seen a partner get cold feet about therapy many times. I'm embarrassed and self-conscious about it, but he assures me that there's nothing to be upset about. It's not my fault and would I like to proceed and chat without my husband? I call my husband and put him on speakerphone. He says that he can only talk for a few minutes and has to run for this mysterious emergency. I start crying and I hang up on him and then spend the rest of the time telling the therapist why I'm pushing for counseling in the first place. The entire session was basically me vomiting words and crying. I would like to say it was cathartic, but it just wasn't. It was just sad to hear it all out loud for the first time. I come home and husband is waiting with dinner. I ignore him. Well, also if he had a work emergency…
KAYLA: What are you doing at home with dinner?
SARAH: Hello?
KAYLA: When did you have time for dinner? Where did you get the dinner from?
SARAH: I ignore him, pack a bag and head to middle child's apartment. That's rough for the middle child.
KAYLA: Hey, at least it wasn't the oldest child because that feels like real oldest child territory.
SARAH: Yeah. I end up spending the weekend there while I try and sort out what to do, but also clearly the kids must have at least some idea of what's going on.
KAYLA: You would think.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I mean, if she spent time during that magical 10 days with one of the children.
SARAH: Yeah. I ended up spending the weekend there while I try and sort out what to do. Husband texts me frequently, but mostly leaves me alone. Those two things seem to be not in terms with each other, but sure. Middle child has a heart to heart with him, but they end up arguing and that situation itself gets strained, which unfortunately hasn't improved. Husband thinks middle child plays favorites. It is true, but husband hasn't been helping in that situation.
KAYLA: I mean, yeah.
SARAH: On Monday when I'm in the office, I get an email from the therapy practice that a new appointment has been made for the following evening. Husband took the initiative and made the appointment. I go home Monday night and a long apology letter is written out to me and he's left me a necklace as a gift. My husband is a terrible gift giver. He spends money like it's going out of style, but none of his gifts are thoughtful or made with the person in mind, but this is a specific necklace that I bookmarked, so at first I was pleasantly surprised. Then I realized that the only way he'd know about the necklace was from my bookmark. So yeah, he's also snooping through my MacBook.
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: The therapy appointment is the following day, so I just ignore him when he comes home, sleep in the guest room and ignore him the following morning. We go to therapy that night and my husband actually participates and answers questions. This session goes fine and we have one later in the week, which is fine too. I'm not seeing any immediate changes, but you know, Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm going to be patient. Meanwhile, the therapist gives us the info for a sex therapist and highly encourages us to make an appointment, which I do right away. We see the sex therapist that weekend. On the weekend? And I'm still in the guest bedroom and nowhere near ready to have sex, but the therapist encourages me to move forward with the prompt/homework for sex for that week.
[00:20:00]
SARAH: I go back to our bedroom that night just for sleep and we follow the prompts the following night and have what is without a close second, the best sex we have had ever.
KAYLA: Wow.
SARAH: Seriously, over two decades and it was the most satisfying sexual experience I've ever had. I was walking on cloud for days, that bubble popped the following week. We were still going to see the couples’ therapist twice a week. His individual therapy appointment was next week and we had another appointment with the sex therapist the next month. Not much has changed in the day today, but again, I'm being patient. Oh my God, I just read ahead.
KAYLA: Uh-oh.
SARAH: My husband actually initiates sex one night and as we're getting into it, he says, “can we go back to regular sex now?”
KAYLA: Oh, no.
SARAH: Because for him, regular sex where he gets off and I don't was just peachy. I start to cry and now he's holding me and I swear he's almost relieved to be off the hook and not have to have sex at all. Middle child wanted to go to a concert that was out of town and I asked and asked if I’d dog-clip the new puppy, so instead of just going over there for a few hours a day like I've been planning, I packed a bag and ended up spending almost a week there and let middle child have some more time on vacation. Husband texted, called and showed up every day, but I wouldn't talk to him or let him in and only saw him at therapy sessions. The therapy sessions ended up being a waste of time with my husband half-admitting that he has unaddressed problems, but not really willing to change any behaviors. The therapist was super patient, but I could feel an undercurrent with desperation, like, “what is it you people are trying to save?” Husband is a stew of repression and security and health issues, Madonna–whore complex, has an unaddressed childhood trauma.
KAYLA: Oh my God.
SARAH: He is so averse to confrontation that he would literally buy his way out of a difficult conversation if given the choice. Nothing will change as long as he's unwilling to work on that. I moved back in and I even moved back into the bedroom. Husband ended up skipping individual therapy because isn't two sessions a week enough? He didn't even cancel he just didn't go. He went back once to the sex therapist, but with a borderline catatonic look on his face and didn't say or do much the entire time other than nod. I've been back at home going through the emotions of life. Husband initiates sex constantly and I go along with it…
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: But I've only gotten off twice in about 12 or 15 times and I am no longer faking it. Husband is so happy because as far as he's concerned everything is fine even when I tell him it's not. I know the right thing to do is just divorce, but I feel so messed up in the head and I just want to throw a proverbial grenade into my life and cheat by bringing a guy home or something. That's it. No happy ending. No pun intended. No unhappy unending. Just limbo.
KAYLA: That's it?
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Why is she staying?
SARAH: At first it does seem a little extreme, but the more you dig into it, this is a perfect relationship for him and for him only.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: He doesn't actually care about what you are getting out of this relationship.
KAYLA: No, it's definitely not just a sex thing. That is, it might have started that way, but no.
SARAH: Yeah. There are some comments that are highlighted here. This person said, “if I were you, I would come right out and ask him why he didn't give a damn about your pleasure and make him actually answer the question.” And OP said, “this was something raised during therapy. According to him, he's insecure about disappointing me because I'm so fucking precious that he doesn't even want to try and be a letdown. Like no sexual experience is good enough for me.”
KAYLA: What!?
SARAH: I wish I was making that up, but it's almost verbatim his answer.
KAYLA: So, you're so perfect that I just… to not risk doing something bad, I just won't do anything at all is the argument?
SARAH: And that's something that he would need to unpack in his individual therapy sessions that he's not going to.
KAYLA: I'm not convinced he actually believes that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That feels like a lie to me.
SARAH: Yeah. Someone said that she shouldn't vent to her kids. And she said, “I never vent to my kids. They've heard nothing from me other than I just need a little space. Okay, with you if I hang here? Middle child and my husband got into it mostly because of the constant surveillance, which husband does with the two of the three kids also, and probably would for the third, if given the chance.”
KAYLA: Oh, no. Divorce, please.
SARAH: Actually, there is one more update.
KAYLA: Please be a divorce.
SARAH: I don't think you're going to be excited. It looks like this got picked up on another board because I'm getting lots of comments and messages. Thanks to everyone who posted and sent kind notes. I realized that I made my husband seem like a supervillain, but nothing is quite that black and white. He's not just a caricature of a person who does bad things. He's done so many good things in his life and is beloved by many, me included. Obviously, he's very comfortable… too comfortable? In our marriage and is letting his issues and childhood trauma destroy it. I'm sure if someone looked objectively at me, they'd see flaws too. I have shades of being very materialistic, I can be pretty judgmental and I know I am also something of a libertine when it comes to sexuality. I've always been very permissive with my kids and he has had to be the disciplinarian and a figure of authority. In my professional life, I've also been fairly ruthless and I've made a lot of money doing what I do, sometimes to the detriment of others. I've changed so much from the time I met him. That's not a bad thing, people change from when they're 18 or 19, but I'm not the person he married and I haven't been for a long time and he's still stuck it out. I painted a picture of a selfish person and I'm saying he's not, except I know I am, too. I don't know what's going to happen with us, but I'm pretty sure our marriage won't survive much longer, I'm all over the map with how I feel about that.
KAYLA: I mean, that's reasonable, I guess, to be like, “I'm not a perfect person either.” But like…
SARAH: But I think she's giving him too much credit, I think
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Because she's saying, “I'm not the person he married and I haven't been for a long time and he's still stuck it out.” Gold star for him. What?
KAYLA: It's also like him having been a good person in the past or having done good things sometimes does not make it okay that he also did bad things.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because again, I feel like she has convinced herself that it's just a sex issue, but like replace sex with anything else and then put in the same therapy stuff, he's still refusing to do...
SARAH: Replace it with fucking jar lids.
KAYLA: The jar lids. He's refusing to put in any work to fix your relationship.
SARAH: Yeah. Although I think I may have misread this. She said, “I painted a picture of a selfish person and I'm not saying he's not, except I know that I am too.”
KAYLA: Okay. I mean, that's fair, but also like… it almost makes it seem like she's saying like, “yeah, maybe he's a bad person, but I'm also a bad person.” And it's like, okay.
SARAH: Yeah, okay, that doesn't mean that you have to stay together.
KAYLA: It's like, are you trying to self-sabotage now? Like, “oh, I deserve this terrible marriage.” What are you doing, lady? Yikes.
SARAH: This is an interesting thing, people talking about the, “can we go back to regular sex?” thing.
KAYLA: I mean that in and of itself is like...
SARAH: That is brutal.
KAYLA: That's like it for me.
SARAH: And this person was responding to OP's comment about, “he's insecure about disappointing me because I'm so fucking precious that he doesn't even want to try and be let down.” And they said, “he's so insecure about disappointing her, he does nothing about it. And then when he finally gets something right, he wants to jump right back to being disappointing.”
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Because it's easier for him.
KAYLA: Yeah. This is, I feel, a problem that allos have around these topics of sex is like… because I feel like we see this kind of Reddit thing a lot is like, is it crazy to break up with someone because of sex in this way, X, Y, Z? Because people are like, “oh, it's just sex,” whatever. But I just feel like people are not putting together that it's not about the sex.
SARAH: Yeah. And there's this comment about, “husband initiates sex constantly and they go along with it, I have only gotten off twice in about 12 or 15 times. Husband is happy because as far as he concerned, everything is fine even when I tell him it's not.” And this person said, “this really grossed me out. It would be such a turn off for me to know my partner wasn't enjoying sex. He doesn't care about her at all. There is nowhere near enough consent in the sexual dynamic, let alone enthusiastic consent.”
KAYLA: Yeah, that's fair. I just don't understand. Ma'am, what are you doing?
SARAH: Also, there's this quote that someone pulled that wasn't in the… it must've been a comment that OP left that I just didn't see. But the quote was, “I don't think there's a corner of my life and brain that he hasn't been in. It feels too late and too unimportant to care.” Girl, get out.
KAYLA: Hello?
SARAH: And this person is saying like, “she's saying that he already violated me completely. So why bother with boundaries now?” And it's like, “no.”
KAYLA: Oh no, queen. Get out.
SARAH: Okay, here's an interesting comment from someone who said that they had a very similar situation that they were in in their marriage. “My ex also used the excuse of being insecure. He would only start sex when I was sleeping, even though I told him I didn't like that.” That is…
KAYLA: Huh! Not okay.
SARAH: A thing you need consent, prior consent for before it happens.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: When I finally started standing up for myself and said sex needed to be about both of us, he said I wasn't worth it.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: There was a point when I would have said that the marriage was fine except for the sex. In hindsight, now that I'm out, from the very start, my ex was controlling, stalking, emotionally, sexually, and financially abusive. The more I stood up for myself, the more abusive he got, escalating to physical abuse as well. When I said I wanted a divorce, he called the kids into the room and told them I was destroying the family because of their behavior. He became violent and I felt family-annihilator vibes in the pit of my stomach. I backed down, played along and everything was fine and planned my escape. I started talking to neighbors and friends about what had been going on and building up support. I had a go-bag at a neighbor he wasn't aware I had contact with. I had plans for which neighbor the kids should run to if they got scared by anything happening. When I finally split, he told me he'd make sure I'd never be happy without him. He'd take the kids away, make sure I was running down the street and ended up homeless. He was furious when I cut off his ability to track me. He fought over every cent and tried to hide assets. And then there was the person just like giving advice to OP about like...
KAYLA: Good Lord.
SARAH: Changing passwords and two factor authentication and checking for trackers.
KAYLA: I don't like it.
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Yeah, I don't like it either. So, there's that. Oh my God. This is also similarly, kind of insane. Okay. Girlfriend, 28, female, changed her phone password. And now I, 29, male, can't access it anymore. What do I do?
KAYLA: What? That's not your phone? Wait, it is his phone? Whose phone is it?
SARAH: No, it's her phone.
KAYLA: Oh no sir.
SARAH: She changed her password and he's mad that he can't get in anymore.
KAYLA: Uh-oh.
SARAH: I've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for a few years now. We've been living together for about a year. We've had our ups and downs. There's an issue that has really been bothering me lately. My girlfriend recently changed the password on her phone and now I can't access it anymore. Previously, I knew her password and could use her phone when needed. I never felt controlling because she never made a fuss about it until now. My girlfriend is somewhat active on social media. She has lots of friends on Snapchat and has a lot of followers on Instagram, and she's always posting photos and chatting to her friends. She has a lot of male followers and I'm worried about the kinds of men she's getting attention from, that's one of the reasons why I want to monitor her, to make sure she's staying safe and not getting harassed or bothered by any of these guys. Yesterday, I used her phone just to check up on her, and that's when I found out that she had changed her password. I asked her about it and she said that she wanted to have a bit more privacy. I don't understand. I let her use her phone by herself and she has lots of privacy.
KAYLA: “I let her.” “I let her use her phone by herself!?”
SARAH: You're not her fucking parent. I explained to her that it made me feel more secure knowing I could access her phone, and that it was important for me to have that level of trust and openness in our relationship. She said she understands but still wants her privacy. My question is, okay, if you want that level of trust and openness in your relationship, does she have access to your phone?
KAYLA: Probably not.
SARAH: I'm struggling with this because I don't understand why she felt the need to change it all of a sudden. It feels like a step backwards in a relationship, and I'm finding it hard to shake the feeling that she's keeping something from me. How should I handle the situation? Please don't come at me. Only comment if you have genuine advice.
KAYLA: “Please don't come at me.” So, you know you're wrong. “Please don't come at me.”
SARAH: Yeah, and some of the comments being like, “I need her phone to know that she isn't getting harassed online by online creeps? So, follow her and see the comments. Ask her if she's been getting DMs from creepy guys. You don't need to access her phone for that.”
KAYLA: That's the thing, like… first of all...
SARAH: You want to be the knight in shining armor, the chivalrous, “oh, I'm saving you,” by stalking her?
KAYLA: Yeah, if he's talking about like trust and openness about the relationship, shouldn't he trust that like if she was going through something like that, she would tell him?
SARAH: Yeah. Also, there's this screenshot from a Tumblr post which is very good. It’s from Stimmy Abby, and this is a screenshot that had 727,000 notes in November of 2016, so.
KAYLA: Oh damn.
SARAH: It says, “sometimes people use respect to mean treating someone like a person, and sometimes they use respect to mean treating someone like an authority. And sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say, if you won't respect me, I won't respect you. And they mean if you won't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person. And they think they're being fair, but they aren't.” Which is, um, I think accurate.
KAYLA: Tea.
SARAH: Monitoring her, like, what do you mean monitor her? Like, she's not a child.
KAYLA: I just... Like it seems like he tried to make a good excuse. Like I'm keeping it, but he used the wrong word. Like he took the first step towards trying to lie and then just failed.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: “Please don't come at me.”
SARAH: I would like to find a light fun one to end on.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Oh, this one is so good, but the person deleted it.
KAYLA: Nooooo.
SARAH: We didn't do the one that it was, um, “am I the asshole for refusing to demote my dog after my sister gave her baby the same name?”
KAYLA: I don't remember that one.
SARAH: Okay. Well, that's what we're gonna end on.
KAYLA: Okay, perfect.
SARAH: I found it on Buzzfeed. Okay, I, 26, female, have a dog named Charlie. Charlie is a golden retriever I adopted four years ago, and he's my best buddy. My sister, Emily, 29, female, recently had her first child, a baby boy. She and her husband named him Charlie.
KAYLA: Yeah, you can't do that.
SARAH: At first, I thought it was funny and didn't think much of it, but then Emily pulled me aside during a family gathering and said it was confusing and disrespectful for me to keep calling my dog Charlie now that her son has the same name, she asked me to rename my dog.
KAYLA: Oh, no, no, no.
SARAH: I told her, “No, Charlie has been his name for four years. He knows it, responds to it, and it's on all of his paperwork, changing it would be weird for him and for me.” She got upset and said it's unfair for her son to share a name with a dog, especially in family settings. She thinks it'll lead to jokes and confusion as her son grows up.
KAYLA: Well…
SARAH: You shouldn't have named him Charlie then.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't know what you were thinking. Do you think she just, like, forgot that was the name of her sister's dog? And is now like, “oh, fuck, I gotta fix this.”
SARAH: Like, imagine I just had a child right now and named them Rosie.
KAYLA: That'd be weird.
SARAH: Like, no… what? My parents have weighed in and while my dad says it's ridiculous to expect me to change my dog's name, my mom says I should just consider it to keep the peace.
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Now Emily is barely speaking to me and a few family members think I'm being stubborn. I have no idea how I am wrong here. The world has gone mad. I love my dog and didn't name him to despite anyone, I also think it's not my fault they chose a name already used in the family. Am I the asshole?
KAYLA: No, that's so wild.
SARAH: Some of the best comments. “There was a post a few years ago about a guy who had a cat named Nigel and his sister Rumi started dating someone named Nigel so they called the cat Nigel and the guy human Nigel.” Fun fact about my aunt. She was married to someone, we will call that person Ryan.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: And she got divorced from that person and then sometime later she started seeing another person and this person was introduced to us as… we will say Nathaniel.
KAYLA: I think I know this story. Continue.
SARAH: And they were together for quite some time and it was several years later until we found out that Nathaniel's name was not Nathaniel, it had never been Nathaniel.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: His name was Ryan but my aunt because she didn't want to call him Ryan because her ex-husband was named Ryan just started calling him Nathaniel.
KAYLA: It wasn't even his middle name or anything like that, right? They just like picked one?
SARAH: I don't think so.
KAYLA: I love that. That's great.
SARAH: So, there is that.
KAYLA: See, there's always options like that.
SARAH: Yeah. Oh, also there's, you know the train guy, the Boston train guy on TikTok?
KAYLA: Who lives in California now?
SARAH: Who lives in California now, yeah. You know how his wife is named Rachel and his cat is also named Rachel?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: And how one of them is… his wife is old Rachel
KAYLA: Old Rachel
SARAH: And the cat is new Rachel?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And they recently had a child and they don't want to share the child's name on the internet so they call the child Carpet.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Iconic. But old Rachel and new Rachel, a great way to do it.
KAYLA: Easy.
SARAH: Well, we have that thing because my godfather is named Joe and he married…
KAYLA: I was just thinking about that.
SARAH: And he married someone named Joe and so there's our Joe and sometimes we call him ‘Other Joe’ but he's also known as ‘Old Joe’ because he's older. This person says, “suggests that she changes her son's name to Spot or Rover.”
KAYLA: That's good.
SARAH: This person says, “adopt a second dog, name it Emily.”
KAYLA: Yep, yes.
SARAH: “Reddit update in a few years. Am I the asshole? Whenever I call my dog Charlie for a treat, my nephew comes running.” Also, the fact that the mom was like, well, maybe you should just do it to keep the peace. It's like, okay.
KAYLA: I hate when people are doing that.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Don't say things like that.
SARAH: Maybe the older child, this person was saying that clearly Emily is the golden child and just expected OP to roll over and just do whatever.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And clearly the mom has something to do with that.
KAYLA: Yeah, it does seem that way.
SARAH: So, this person goes, “I'm just sick of people burning family members for the golden child in the name of keeping the peace. No, you didn't disrupt the peace. Tell Charlie, your precious pup, I said hi. Fuck the kid. No hi to the kid. Just to the dog.”
KAYLA: No hi to this kid. Poor kid.
SARAH: I'm sorry. Did they not run this by anyone?
KAYLA: That's what makes me think it was like, no one knew about the name. And then I think the sister just forgot that her sister's dog's name was Charlie. I don't know. Like, how do you…
SARAH: I think she didn't care. I think she didn't forget, but she just didn't fucking care.
KAYLA: Maybe she just assumed her sister would change the dog's name.
SARAH: Yes. So, she's like, “oh, a dog is less important than a child. Therefore...”
KAYLA: That's so wild. What a wild thing to ask.
SARAH: If you have a child and you name them Adderall, I'm not renaming my cat.
KAYLA: Yeah, you also shouldn't name your child that.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: So. Oh, how was it telling the vet her Christian name?
SARAH: Oh, the vet loved it.
KAYLA: That's great.
SARAH: They loved it. They love it.
KAYLA: I'm sure they see lots of names.
SARAH: Yeah, no, the woman at the front desk was like, “I love that so much.” And then the other lady who was further behind the desk was like, “how do you pronounce that?” And I was like, one of you is…
KAYLA: The medicine.
SARAH: I said, “One of you understands.”
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: One of you is mentally ill, the other is not.
SARAH: Anyway, well, actually, no, here's what… I have one more thing to contribute
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Which is that my dad always wanted to have a dog named Molly. And then when they were talking about names for my sister, he suggested Molly and my mom was like, “we are not naming…”
KAYLA: Using your dog
SARAH: “Our child the name you've always wanted to name a dog.” And he was like, “you know what? That’s fair.”
KAYLA: Why didn't they name Sadie Molly then? Why isn't Sadie named Molly?
SARAH: I don't know. I was led to believe that I named Sadie, but apparently, I was manipulated as a child into thinking that I named Sadie, but I didn't.
KAYLA: That's tough.
SARAH: Which makes me feel a little bit better about how basic it is.
KAYLA: I just feel like I'm confused why her name isn't Molly.
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Like if he lost the ability to use it for a child because it was marked as a dog name and then you don't name your dog that, it's like, well, then you might as well name the child that.
SARAH: I don't know what to tell you.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Or there's my aunt who names all of her dogs after elderly/deceased family members.
KAYLA: I can't do that.
SARAH: She recently got a new puppy. Puppy's name is Opal. I didn't realize we had an Opal in the family, but apparently, we do.
KAYLA: That's not a bad... Is the dog white?
SARAH: No, she's a black lab.
KAYLA: Oh, interesting.
SARAH: The previous dog was named Edna.
KAYLA: Good.
SARAH: And the previous dog was Muriel.
KAYLA: Oh, no. I do love a pet with an old name though, I think it's funny.
SARAH: It's very silly. Um, all right, Kayla, what's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Why do men?
SARAH: Why do men? And how can we make it stop?
KAYLA: Yeah. Do you think that she should change her dog's name?
SARAH: No. Also, did they name… like, is the child given name Charlie?
KAYLA: Instead of like, what? Charles?
SARAH: Yeah, it seems like it. Like, it seems like that's what they did.
KAYLA: Who is naming their kid Charles these days? That's crazy.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Charles.
SARAH: That's an old person's name. That is one of the good things about my name is that as common as it is, it is fairly timeless.
KAYLA: It does age well.
SARAH: Knock on wood. Watch in like five years, be like, “oh my God.”
KAYLA: There's the clip of Zac Oyama, who's a comedian that's on a lot of Dropout shows talking about that of like, “yeah, Zach is a fine name now. But imagine me as like an 80-year-old grandpa named Zac.”
SARAH: Zac.
KAYLA: Like, what is that?
SARAH: It'll be normal by the time we're 80.
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: Oh, something that as I've been reading scripts for my job, and there are characters in the scripts that are like, supposed to be like in their 20s.
KAYLA: Oh, no.
SARAH: I get annoyed when they give them names that don't seem correct
KAYLA: Like what?
SARAH: For their age.
KAYLA: Oh, I see.
SARAH: This isn't even necessarily like a specific example, but like, if someone's like, “oh, this person is 30 and their name is Kathy.”
KAYLA: Yeah, I see that.
SARAH: And I'm like, “what 30-year-old is named Kathy?”
KAYLA: See, I thought you were going to say that you were reading scripts with like 20-year-olds named Baileigh with like an E-I-G-H. And I was like, “no, thank you.”
SARAH: I mean, that's accurate though.
KAYLA: It is accurate, but I don't want it.
SARAH: When just the names seem too old to go with the age of the person. That's fine every once in a while, because obviously there are going to be some people who still have those names. Like it's a family name or whatever.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But if it's happening like often.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like where is our Kennedy? Where is our like fucking Caitlin even?
KAYLA: Fair.
SARAH: Why do we have this 19-year-old named Nancy?
KAYLA: Yeah, that doesn't seem right.
SARAH: Okay. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is with the moon or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah, whatever it is.
KAYLA: Whoever in the sky is doing this to me.
SARAH: Yep. To you specifically.
KAYLA: To me specifically.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: My juice is… also might be, I guess it's like a gravy. I don't know how to feel about it yet, but Dean and I started watching the first season of ‘White Lotus’ and it is making me so tense.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Like there's so much tension in the first two episodes, but nothing really has happened. And I'm like, “I need someone to like die or something,” to like break the tension.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I'm too mentally ill for that. My juice is, I just finished a book that was good. It was ‘Tress of the Emerald Sea’ by Brandon Sanderson.
SARAH: Slay.
KAYLA: A good book.
SARAH: A good book.
KAYLA: A good book.
SARAH: Slayful. My beef is just like all of it. Like I could be more specific, but like at what cost?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: My juice is, I don't know, I have a cat, that's pretty cool.
KAYLA: Pretty cool.
SARAH: It's pretty cool indeed. Um, my sister is coming into town this weekend and then my mom is coming into town next week and then my other friend is coming into town later next week.
KAYLA: Oh my gosh, she's so popular.
SARAH: Busy, busy, busy, so.
KAYLA: That's crazy.
SARAH: Sure. Sure. Um, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, your thoughts on naming a child after a dog. Maybe after a dog is funny.
KAYLA: I mean, you know.
SARAH: Like we just love the dog Charlie so much. It's a family name.
KAYLA: I mean, people name kids after people, why not a dog? Yeah.
SARAH: Well, I mean, I gave my child the family middle name.
KAYLA: Good. Yes.
SARAH: So. And it's not even an animal-specific family middle name. Like it's my sister's middle name and my mom's middle name.
KAYLA: You did it, you followed the tradition.
SARAH: Anyway, you can tell us about your beef, your juice… Oh, I already said that part, it doesn't matter, on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you want to support us there. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Alex Istar, Alexander, AliceIsInSpace, Alucard Zavertnik, and Amanda Kyker. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Olivia O’Shea who would like to promote not telling ace-spec people they just haven’t found the right person yet. Shut the fuck up.
KAYLA: Gross.
SARAH: Parker who would like to promote subscribing to Patreon even though you're broke and have no money. Again, we cannot necessarily…
KAYLA: No
SARAH: We cannot necessarily back that. But that's is what Parker wants to promote. Um, Phoenix Leodinh who would like to promote the Trevor Project. Purple Hayes who would like to promote the musician Vinther and Barefoot Backpacker who would like to promote their YouTube channel rtwbarefoot. Our other $10 patrons are SongOStorm, Val, Alastor, Alyson, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Bones, Celina Dobson, Clare Olsen, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, Eric, my aunt Jeannie, Kayla’s dad, Maff and Martin Chiesl. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer, Crystal Scherer. Andrew Hillum who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast. Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person. Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com and Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. You see what I did there with NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: I ate that. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly, Dr. Jacki, my mom, and River who would like to promote, just like good public transportation.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: Until then, take good care of your cows.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]