Ep 89: Reactions to Pride and Taylor Swift's Video

Sarah: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake but Okay, a podcast, where an aro ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me.

Kayla: And a demi straight girl, that's me, Kayla.

Sarah: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.

Kayla: On today's episode, commercialized pride. Sounds fake, but okay.

Sarah: Sounds fake, but okay.

Kayla: That was off.

Sarah: Welcome back to the pod.

Kayla: Oh, no.

Sarah: You should just make a list-

Kayla: I know.

Sarah: ... Kayla so that when this happens every week...

Kayla: M'Billie. That doesn't start with an M, but it's my cat and she's in front of me and she really was a piece of shit last night, so.

Sarah: What did she do?

Kayla: Well, so she gets what I call zoomies-

Sarah: Oh, yes.

Kayla: ... because that's what Jenna and Julian say that their dog does.

Sarah: Yeah, dogs get zoomies. I was unaware until I saw a video of Billie doing it, that cats got zoomies too.

Kayla: Well, yeah, it seems to happen at night, in the early morning. And I mean, it's not her fault. I leave her all day for work, so she gets bored.

Sarah: Those of you who may not know, zoomies is just when an animal just runs around all of a sudden very fast.

Kayla: Oh yeah, runs so fast. So she gets nighttime zoomies a lot right when I'm trying to go to bed. So she didn't get that last night and I was like, sweet. But then at 3:00 AM-

Sarah: Oh, no.

Kayla: ... she got them. And there is this rabbit that my mom had knitted that was up in my desk, and she'd gotten it down once before and she did it again and ripped it up, kind of.

Sarah: No, Billie.

Kayla: So I had to put that away, so...

Sarah: Billifred.

Kayla: Yeah, she's naughty, but now she's play... So if you hear a cat or some banging around, that is my cat banging around.

Sarah: Or it's me, I'm also a cat.

Kayla: You are not nearly as energetic as she is.

Sarah: Wow. Okay.

Kayla: She's also, I think, more social than you are.

Sarah: Oh, no.

Kayla: Yeah, but she is a very social cat, so.

Sarah: Well, tell Billie I love her even though she's a bad cat.

Kayla: Okay.

Sarah: What are we talking about this week?

Kayla: This week, we're talking about Pride. Will this even come out before Pride Month is over?

Sarah: Yes, it will come out just at the end of Pride month.

Kayla: Oh, well, good. It's a nice recap of Pride month.

Sarah: The last day of Pride Month, in fact.

Kayla: Oh. Oh, perfect timing. Good job, us.

Sarah: But yeah, we're talking about the commercialization that goes into some Pride things. I think last year, we kind of talked about this a little bit, but-

Kayla: Yeah, I think we've touched on it. I tweeted about it earlier this month.

Sarah: But we wanted to go into more detail, especially because some specific things have come out that we actually have been asked about, so we thought we would just make it a whole episode.

Kayla: Yeah, why not?

Sarah: Yay. Well, not yay, but...

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: Kayla, what are your thoughts on large companies being like it's Pride. We're prideful now.

Kayla: For me, it's really hard because on the one hand it's great, it's obviously showing some support from major companies and a lot of them are including asexuality now, which is really great.

Sarah: Yeah, yee.

Kayla: So on a visibility standpoint, I think it's great. And I have really similar feelings about some of the more empowered women ads that have been coming out too. I feel similarly. The main thing... So on the one hand, I think it's great that there's visibility and it's a public show of support, but on the other hand, I feel like you have to think critically about what the company's standards actually are. For example, Dove does a lot of ads on empowering women and loving your body and whatever. I'm pretty sure it's Dove that is owned by the same people who own Axe. And so... Ooh, My cat's being noisy.

Sarah: Hi Billie.

Kayla: Hey, come here. Come here.

Sarah: Billie, a guest on the podcast.

Kayla: She's in a box. So I believe it's the same company that owns Ax. And so you look at Ax's ads and what they're doing and it's like, okay, is this really something that this company believes, or is this just an obvious marketing ploy?

Sarah: Yeah. You don't actually... The things that your company does don't actually represent the things that you claim to stand for with your ads.

Kayla: Right. And then you have companies doing stuff for pride, and it's like, okay, but if we were to look at this company's policies, how do they treat their LGBTQIA employees? What are their hiring standards? So it's just this difficult line of, okay, would we rather them not do anything for pride at all since they're not being genuine, or are they doing harm by... So I think it's a very... It's touchy.

Sarah: Yeah. And as I was just kind of... Because I had heard a fair number of people talk about this before, but last night, I was like, I'm going to see if there's any articles or things online that I can read to educate me. And I found this article, it is from last year, it's from Vox. Oh. Wow. A year ago yesterday this article came out. Maybe that's why it came up on Google because it was the same date. Anyway... But it's basically just talking about, it's the title is "How LGBTQ Pride Month Became a Branded Holiday." And one of the things they mention is Adidas has Pride Pack rainbow merchandise stuff. I was actually on their website the other day and I was like, ah, yes, that is a Rainbow Pride shirt.

But it's also, as this article explained, it's also one of the major sponsors for last year's World Cup in Russia. And Russia is a country with a lot of anti-LGBTQ laws that make it... I'm just basically reading from this article, that make it unsafe for fans and athletes. And so on one hand, it's like, I do understand that it's a huge thing for Adidas to sponsor the World Cup. And it's not Adidas themselves chose where it was going to be, but there are also implications for your actions. And so if you're going to have this whole pride merchandise and stuff, they don't seem to really be backing it up with their actions.

Kayla: Right. And I think it's also you have to think about if you are buying this product, or you are buying this Pride merch or whatever, you have to think about, okay, what kind of company is my money going to? But then it's also hard because it's like, okay, if I buy it, am I now morally comparable because I gave these people my money?

Sarah: Well, yeah, and I don't think it was in this article, but I was reading something last night about how when companies sell specific pride things, a lot of times they'll be like, oh, we donate a certain amount of proceeds to Trevor Project or some other queer supporting NGO. But sometimes it's like they give 50% of proceeds and sometimes it's 5%. And so how much is the company profiting versus how much good are they actually doing out in the world in terms of addressing issues that queer communities face?

Kayla: Right. And I think it's really hard because obviously for companies as queerness is becoming more mainstream, it is something that makes money. And so it's hard because for companies, this is a big opportunity to make money, and they know that if they make pride stuff, people are going to buy it. And so it's hard because it's like, sure, it's a good tactic and there's a lot of other morally questionable things that companies do. So it's weighing is it worth it? And what does it mean that this identity, while still being marginalized in a lot of ways, is also now being marketed?

Sarah: Yeah. And they're making money off of it. They're making money off of openly being like, oh, we support queer communities. One of... Obviously, some companies are much better with this than others. If you look at a company like Target, they always do pride stuff. And I mean, they had the whole shenanigans with trans people in their bathrooms. So I mean, I don't know all of Target's policies and stuff, but clearly, it's not just something that they're like, oh, we only care about this in the month of June.

Kayla: Right. They're doing stuff outside of... I saw a meme, I don't even remember it, but basically the gist of the meme was just all the companies just changing their profile pictures back to their normal colors after Pride month because it's like, yeah, they changed their profile picture to something like rainbow. If you look at YouTube, a lot of people were really upset with YouTube this Pride month, because recently, YouTube has been notorious for taking content made by queer people and then taking the ads and making it so there can't be ads on it.

Sarah: Demonetizing it, because apparently it includes adult content.

Kayla: Right. And the whole YouTube demonetizing thing I think goes a lot deeper. And there's a lot of weird stuff with companies and just how the business is run. But it's clearly something that's happening and it's something that creators have been complaining about that YouTube hasn't really seemed to address. And yet they changed their profile picture for Pride and they made a tweet supporting queer creators or whatever. And so it's just those obviously hypocritical things that it's like, okay.

Sarah: One of the other things this article mentions is that these companies that are basically making money off of supporting pride, they may think they're doing good, and if they are donating to good causes, then I think that is a good thing. But the article does mention that it's not really doing that much for the queer community beyond it says contributing to this vague notion of awareness around the issues that affect the community. It's one thing to make people more aware of things, and I think that's good, but I think at this point, everyone knows gay people exist. Everyone in the United States gets that gay people exist. And it's more than just being like, oh, rainbows.

Oh, being gay is fun. It goes a lot deeper than that. And I think the companies that are actually donating money to good causes are definitely doing much more. And also the people who are donating money to good causes, but also bringing up more awareness of not just gay people exist, but the issues that queer communities actually face. I mean, some do better than others, but I would like to see more do better, better.

Kayla: Yeah. Kind of going off of that. So Budweiser this year did a bunch of posts at least on Twitter for Pride month, and they did a bunch of the flags, and then they defined what the sexuality was. So they did one for asexuality. I didn't read any of the responses. I know... I think someone dropped it in our discord and said that some of the tweets back at it were not the best and were kind of upsetting, which I suppose is to be expected.

Sarah: Unfortunately.

Kayla: Unfortunately. But something Budweiser is doing this year is they partnered with... Her name is Yasmin.

Sarah: Benoit?

Kayla: Yes. So she's the girl who started this is what asexuality looks like. She's an activist and model in the UK. And so Budweiser this year partnered with her and then had some support for AVEN. And during London Pride is setting up, or did, I'm not sure when London Pride is exactly, a bar called Ace of Spades that is a gay bar, but for Ace people.

Sarah: That's pretty cool.

Kayla: I haven't done any other reading or research into it, but I think that one is interesting and I wanted to know your thoughts on that.

Sarah: Yeah, I think that's really interesting. I think when you see companies like that, that are obviously including the people in the communities that they're supposedly supporting, when they include those people in those conversations, I think it's always going to have a better outcome. And so I think the fact that they included Yasmin and AVEN is good. I also think that's just really interesting because I know a lot of times with gay bars, Ace people can feel not welcome in those places, because they may feel uncomfortable, they may... If it is a gay bar. They might be afraid that someone might try and hit on them, which I mean, it makes total sense if you're in a gay bar. But I think having a space that is just for Ace people and aspec people to meet, I think that's kind of cool.

Kayla: Especially because I think we hear from a lot of Ace people that they don't meet other Ace people in real life a lot. It's way less common. So yeah, I'll be interested to see how that goes.

Sarah: I think that is kind of cool though, and I think it's always good when the people in the community are actually involved.

Kayla: Yeah, I think it's good, especially that they partnered with a member of the community and that AVEN was involved. I don't think AVEN was super involved from what it seems like, but they were there.

Sarah: But it was something that they deemed worth being affiliated with at the very least.

Kayla: Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I think it's interesting. And I don't know what Budweiser has been doing with anything else with Pride, but yeah.

Sarah: Fun. Can I tell you something kind of funny? Last weekend I was in Minneapolis for Quidditch and we were at the Mall of America, and we went into this store because someone I was with wanted to, I don't remember.

Kayla: Well, you were also in a mall, so.

Sarah: Yeah, I was in a mall and there was a shirt in there that was one of those shirts that's like, oh, we're all human and each of the different letters is a different pride flag. And my friend was like, oh, look, there's an Ace flag. And I was like, that's cool. And then we continued walking into the store and then in the back of the store there were just a bunch of dildos and shit. And then I got really uncomfortable. So me and my friend, Miranda, just left. And I think that's the Ace experience.

Kayla: What store were you in?

Sarah: Spencer's, but not Spencer's Gifts. Spencer's the other Spencer's.

Kayla: Why did they just have dildos?

Sarah: Apparently they just do because the guy was like, oh, at the Spencer's by my house, the dildos were in the back left. And I was like, what?

Kayla: That's very odd. I thought dildos were only sold in sex stores.

Sarah: I don't know.

Kayla: Huh.

Sarah: But there was a bunch of very cheap lingerie. And then-

Kayla: Wait, a-

Sarah: But then there was also-

Kayla: Spencer's?

Sarah: You know the font they have for Journeys?

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: It's the same font. Imagine that. It's like a Hot Topic mixed with a Journeys.

Kayla: Oh, yeah. Okay. I mean, I guess that's the kind of store that would have that.

Sarah: But at the front, there was a bunch of Pride stuff because Pride Month, but they included-

Kayla: Yeah, I just went to their website and I saw the shirt you were talking about.

Sarah: Yeah. But then also, there were just a bunch of dildos, and I was like, I feel a little weird. I'm going to leave this store now.

Kayla: Yeah, that's really odd.

Sarah: So, that's just a fun little tidbit.

Kayla: That is the Ace experience.

Sarah: Another kind of commercial, but kind of not thing with Pride was so the Democratic National Convention, they're really doing their best, but they're goddamn idiots. Did you see their tweet about how if you text boy bye to a certain number, it'll put you on a... It's basically about kicking Trump out of office, but they were like, text boy bye to this certain number. And everyone was like, this is not how you... This is poorly done pandering.

Kayla: Yeah, I saw that. And it's just so shitty because they're very obviously just trying to reach a young audience.

Sarah: But it's not working.

Kayla: And I get that and I get why that's important, but it's also like-

Sarah: But the issues that are important to a younger audience are not slang, it's student loans and that sort of shit, minimum wage.

Kayla: Yeah. I think... Yeah, I guess it's kind of trivializing and I don't know. It's still politics.

Sarah: They're just trying to reach this group, but they're doing it the entirely wrong way. And I found it very funny because Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez responded. She was like, guess someone didn't come to my Twitter seminar that she did for other Congress people-

Kayla: Oh, God.

Sarah: ... about how to reach people on Twitter and do a better job of using social media. And she was like, I guess someone didn't come to my seminar.

Kayla: Well, and I mean, that's either a young intern or someone that's too old-

Sarah: Reaching.

Kayla: ... to be trying to... Or maybe it's someone that's our age that really just just did it to them.

Sarah: Really just thought it was going to work and then everyone was like, no, we hate this.

Kayla: They probably got fired.

Sarah: All right. That's just the small addition I wanted to make. Another thing that we wanted to talk about in this video was something that we had been asked-

Kayla: This video, we're doing a video?

Sarah: Yeah, this is a video now. The other thing we wanted to talk about in this pod was something that we actually got asked about by an anonymous asker on Tumblr. And it was about Taylor Swift's new music video.

Kayla: Which I just watched half an hour ago.

Sarah: I listened to Kayla watch it.

Kayla: She did.

Sarah: I think in some ways, it is kind of related to this idea of commercialized pride. But Kayla, since you just watched it for the first time, and I didn't ask you right after because I wanted to save it for the pod, what are your thoughts on Taylor Swift's video, You Need to Calm Down, not you need to calm down. The video is called You Need to Calm Down, continue.

Kayla: Well, okay. So it was kind of hard because I hadn't watched it until today, which is a pretty long time after it came out, because I just didn't care enough. So I kind of had already seen a lot of people's opinions on it, which kind of swayed me.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: Because I think I saw a lot of negative stuff about it.

Sarah: Do we want to do a quick description of the video for anyone who like you-

Kayla: Oh, yeah.

Sarah: ... lives under a rock? So basically the video is... The song is she uses a lot of gay slang in this song, and it seems like she's kind of being like, you all calm down with the homophobia and stuff. But it also seems like she's kind of talking about herself. And the music video is her with a bunch of very famous queer people, like internet people like Ellen the DeGeneres is in it, Kaley Cuoco's in it, Hannah Hart's in it, Billy Porter's in it.

Kayla: Adam Rippon.

Sarah: Adam Rippon, the Fab Five from Queer Eye. A bunch of people that if you are familiar with the community, that you would know who they are. And some people that I don't know by name, but I definitely recognized. And so they were just all in the music video having a good time with her. It's classic recent Taylor Swift where everything's bubblegum colors, aggressively rainbow, and it's not-

Kayla: It kind of... Now that I think about it, it reminds me a lot of a YouTube Rewind.

Sarah: Oh my God, yeah.

Kayla: Because it's just a lot of people-

Sarah: A bunch of people have been in YouTube Rewind.

Kayla: Well, also that, but it's a bunch of just random celebrities walking around doing little bits.

Sarah: Yeah, that's definitely the vibe. And I mean, I guess before we go too deep into talking about this, I will say, I know a lot of people who really Taylor Swift and really this video, and some of them are queer. And I know a lot of people who do not Taylor Swift and do not like this video, and they're also queer. Taylor Swift tends to be a very polarizing person in queer communities especially. I've gone back and forth on Taylor Swift, but I do urge you all to form your own opinions. Don't just blindly follow people.

Kayla: Which I realize is hard because especially for me, I feel like I don't have a ton of really strong opinions about celebrities. And so I tend to just kind of like... My opinions are just the same as whatever I read online because I don't care enough.

Sarah: I'm easily swayed and I'm trying to do better at not being easily swayed.

Kayla: Yeah, I'm definitely pretty easily swayed about that kind of stuff, but...

Sarah: Yeah. Did you see mostly in anti that video responses or mostly pro?

Kayla: I think at least the stuff I remember, what is jumping out my memory is negative stuff.

Sarah: I think it's interesting because I saw a fair amount of negative stuff. A lot of the positive stuff I saw were either from people that I personally know who I just I know really Taylor Swift, or people who were in the video. People in queer communities who were in the video. And then a lot of the people who weren't in the video who are in queer communities weren't so pleased about it. And a lot of people are being like, the only reason they're mad is because they weren't invited to be in the video. But I just don't think that's true.

Kayla: No.

Sarah: I think that's just an attempt to dismiss valid criticisms.

Kayla: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's one person out there who's pissed about that, but-

Sarah: Yeah, there might be one or two that are like, I wish she'd invited me, so I'm going to be salty, but...

Kayla: But yeah, I don't think that the vast majority, that's the reason that they're mad. No.

Sarah: Yeah. And the reason that people do seem to be mad, those who are mad is because it seems to them, Taylor Swift is just like the companies we were talking about earlier, just cashing in on this pride month, queer support sort of thing. And I do definitely understand where they're coming from on that front.

Kayla: Yeah. I think a lot of the problem I've had with Taylor Swift over the years is that she hasn't really done anything.

Sarah: She's been-

Kayla: Which is also-

Sarah: ... very apolitical. And it's very clear that it was intentional.

Kayla: Right. Which is also a hard stance to take. I realize, because something... I was in a feminist... Oh yeah, you guys know this. Anyway-

Sarah: Kayla was in a feminism class. Yeah.

Kayla: But something we talked about a lot was are celebrities actually responsible for having political opinions and putting them out there? Is that actually part of their job description? And should we be getting mad at them if they're not? Which is hard because me personally, I kind of shit on Taylor Swift for not doing anything. And when she did, it would be really minor like she didn't go to any of the women's marches. She just posted about it. And at the time I thought that was really shitty, but I also didn't go to a women's march, so it kind of like-

Sarah: Yeah. I didn't either.

Kayla: Kind of... Yeah. So I think, don't know, it's hard, but it is interesting to me that she is now getting way more into politics. And-

Sarah: It was after 2016 that basically she made her first political thing, which was when she supported one of the candidates in Tennessee and was encouraging people to register to vote.

Kayla: Even then though, she posted that the day before the vote. So a criticism I saw of that was she didn't do anything early enough to really make a difference there, because she kind of posted last minute and was like, yeah, I support this guy. And it's like, okay, but you could have said that earlier. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's very interesting to me that now is the time she's doing this. And it does lead me to wonder how genuine she's being, or if this is her realizing that people that are really political are be popular online now. And she's just trying to cash in on that? Obviously, I don't know. And it's also a question of do her actual intentions really matter, or is it the fact that she's doing it at all, that's good enough?

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: I don't know. I think it's hard.

Sarah: Yeah. I think that's important to note. And I also just think that it's looking at the people who are in that music video, it is notable that she did include those people. Like Todrick Hall was a co-executive producer. It's not like she just was like, oh, I'm going to make this video pandering to queer communities. She actually made them a part of the process. I don't know how much say they had, but at least they were there and they were represented.

Kayla: Yeah. That's the one thing I didn't realize until I watched it, that Todrick Hall also was an executive producer. And that did make me think about it a little bit differently because I was like, okay, well, that means he had some kind of larger role in it, and he is someone that's queer.

Sarah: And she did include a fairly diverse group of queer people. There were men, there were women, there were non-binary people, there were people of varying sexualities, varying races, varying body types. There were drag queens. She did, I think, do a fairly good job of trying to represent a broader variety of people. It wasn't just a bunch of gay White twinks. Which-

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: ... lovely, but you want more diversity than that.

Kayla: Yeah, I agree. That is something I think was good also. Yeah. I don't know. I think for me, it's just hard because how am I supposed to know how genuine she's being?

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: It's hard for me to form an opinion and yeah, I don't know.

Sarah: And we don't personally know her, so we're never going to know.

Kayla: Right.

Sarah: And another criticism I saw online was that the song includes appropriation of Black queer language. In the song, she says, take several seats. She also has this line where she says, shade never made anybody less gay. What the fuck does that mean?

Kayla: Yeah, I didn't really understand that line.

Sarah: No one knows what that means.

Kayla: The one thing I will say is that it's not necessarily her that's appropriating that language.

Sarah: It's all of society.

Kayla: Culture as a whole has appropriated that.

Sarah: Yeah. And that's what I wrote down in my notes when I went a little crazy writing notes on this last night. Like I said, maybe there is some appropriation of Black queer language, but there are prominent Black queer folks in the video. Does that make it okay? Does that make it better? Also, it's just becoming more common in non-Black queer spaces to use these terms. And maybe that's appropriation in and of itself, but does that mean it's okay that Taylor's doing it because everyone else is doing it? I don't know.

Kayla: Yeah. I think that's hard because a lot of the slang she was using is stuff that's just really common now, and it's something that people are not even really aware of the origins of anymore.

Sarah: Yeah. And she can't be blamed for it entering into the mainstream. That's not on her.

Kayla: Right. And so it's hard because it's like, whose fault is it that it was appropriated? Is it even appropriated? Can you really appropriate phrases and stuff like that? And yeah, whose fault is it that no one really remembers the origins of it? It's not her fault, but yeah, also, yeah, does that make it okay? Just because everyone else is doing it?

Sarah: A lot of people as well were saying that it seems like she's trying to become a queer icon in the way that Lady Gaga or Ariana Grande or even Katy Perry have become. I personally think it's just a little too late in her career for that. I think the name that she made for herself doesn't lend itself to her becoming a queer icon. And not everyone has to be a queer icon and that's okay. But it does feel a little bit like she's kind of trying to do that, and I don't know how I feel about that.

Kayla: Yeah, I think that one is hard too, because if you take someone like Lady Gaga, to my knowledge, she is straight. But a lot of her career has been being a really good ally, and a lot of her work speaks to a lot of queer issues.

Sarah: And she's also the queen of camp, so.

Kayla: Right, she definitely is. But it's hard because then you have people like Ariana Grande, who we also don't know her sexuality. I saw some speculation recently that she was bi because of some line in her song. I don't know. That one's hard too, because there are people that are queer icons like Madonna or Dolly Parton who aren't queer.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: It's just that they're so campy that they've become queer icons.

Sarah: Well, and Madonna did openly appropriate from Black communities with Vogue. So-

Kayla: Yeah, that's true.

Sarah: ... there's that.

Kayla: Right. So that one's hard too, because it's like, I don't know, the concept of being a queer icon in the first place is kind of hazy anyway.

Sarah: What does it even mean?

Kayla: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Sarah: Yeah. And then at the end, Katy Perry was there in her Met Gala hamburger outfit, which is supposed to be her camp thing from the Met Gala. I don't think it was really that campy.

Kayla: I mean, it was definitely campier than some of the stuff I saw.

Sarah: Yeah. But also-

Kayla: I did think that was-

Sarah: Sorry. Go ahead.

Kayla: I thought that was interesting because Katy Perry and Taylor Swift had been having their feud for years, and then I was starting to see stuff about how annoyed people were getting at their feud and how neither Taylor Swift nor Katy Perry are relevant anymore. I saw an article about that-

Sarah: Interesting.

Kayla: ... a couple of months ago. And yeah, I get the message that I think she was trying to get across both in her personal life and in the queer community. All of the hate isn't doing anything good, but I don't know, it felt like a weird inclusion to have her stuff with Katy Perry in it.

Sarah: Especially given the camp aspect of the nod to Katy Perry's Met Gala outfit of camp is a queer invention.

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. And also the other interesting thing about the song is the beginning of the song definitely feels like it is directed at the people who have sent hate to Taylor online. It's basically there's a snake reference, I think, which is a big thing with her. Basically she's being like calm down, don't fucking come at me. Which is very, very valid. But then it kind of turns into this defending queer communities, and it feels like it kind of takes a turn and then at the end, it takes a turn again. And so I'm not sure what the origi... Was the song intended to be a queer sort of song, and then that was just kind of a part of it? Or was it originally just about people not leaving her the fuck alone on the internet and then she kind of turned it into this queer thing? I'm just not really... I was confused by that.

Kayla: Yeah. That was a weird thing of her including... And I guess it makes sense that she was including stuff about her, because it's still her brand and she's still trying to bring her fans in. And I did see people being like, oh my God, when her and Katy Perry hugged, I didn't realize I was so invested in that relationship. I saw some positive responses to that. Yeah, it was weird. The thing I thought was... I don't know. That really struck me was the people. So there was people in the music video-

Sarah: Oh, I was going to bring that up. That was what I was going to bring up next.

Kayla: Yeah. There's people in the music video with signs that are like, oh, Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, that are just marching around and yelling at the queer people and being angry.

Sarah: And all of those people are conveyed as White hicks, White trash, stereotypical.

Kayla: Yeah. The stuff that they're wearing is very hillbilly-ish and-

Sarah: They're all White.

Kayla: Yeah. Yeah, they're all White, very country kind of podunk. I don't know. That is a part that... Because the rest of it, I was like, okay, I get why people are mad about this, but I don't know if it's as bad as people were saying. I don't know... That part, I really didn't like.

Sarah: I just think it's so interesting that that was... I understand why if you were like, I need to embrace the stereotype about homophobic people, I understand why that's the group she went for. But it's so interesting to me based on her background as someone who was previously a country singer and-

Kayla: Oh, I didn't even think about that.

Sarah: A lot of times White, more rural, maybe lower on the socioeconomic scale, a lot of those people are people who are seen as the stereotypical audiences for country music. And so it's interesting to me that she would convey those people in that way. Also, she's just reinforcing a stereotype about rural white people, and I don't think that's helping anything.

Kayla: Yeah. The thing to me is I'm not trying to defend people that are actually those rural people that are homophobic and bad-

Sarah: Absolutely not.

Kayla: ... because they obviously exist. But the thing to me is, especially in our current climate, it's becoming more and more apparent every day that racism and homophobia is everywhere. And you don't necessarily have to look a certain way to have those beliefs. There's people in the government who look really well put together that are still... It's not necessarily people... There's people that are very educated that still think that way.

Sarah: And if rural White Americans watch this music video and they see that that's the way that them and their peers are being conveyed, then that can be even more polarizing. Because then they can be like, okay, if that's the way you see me, then I'm not even going to consider your side of things.

Kayla: It also just goes against what her whole song was saying. She was like, oh, don't hate and whatever. But then she's just being very stereotypical. And again, I don't agree with these people. I'm not trying to defend them. I just don't know if it was the best move on her part.

Sarah: I don't think so either.

Kayla: It rubbed me even the wrong way, and that's not my group of people.

Sarah: No. And I definitely, I would say in a lot of ways, I have been trained to have an inherent bias against that group of people.

Kayla: Oh, same.

Sarah: And I looked at it and I was like I don't like this.

Kayla: Oh yeah. I even... I'm someone that I will own up to the fact that I definitely have a bias against the south and the country. And I think, I mean, a lot of that has to do with where I grew up and everything, which isn't an excuse, but yeah, I realized that I have definitely a bias. And even I was like, I don't know about that.

Sarah: Two points I'd like to point out. One, why was Pan Icon, Brendan Urie, not in that music video? He was already in the Me music video. Why can't you include him in this too?

Kayla: I had an ad for him, or it was an ad that had him in it right before the music video actually, which I thought was interesting.

Sarah: Nice. Second thing, there's a scene where she's having tea with Todrick and the Fab Five, but not Tan for some reason. Tan's just in by himself. And I just-

Kayla: Yeah, I saw the Fab Five tweeting about that. I don't remember what happened. I think he just wasn't there or something, but-

Sarah: I just found it very interesting that an Anthony is the only one who appears to have milk in his tea.

Kayla: Okay.

Sarah: That's just an observation.

Kayla: Yeah, I didn't pay that close attention.

Sarah: About their tea. Well, it's pretty obvious because they all have dark teas and then one of them is very light. And I was like, Anthony.

Kayla: I guess I just wasn't looking at their tea.

Sarah: I was, but that's just an observation for all of you.

Kayla: Thank you.

Sarah: So conclusions on the Taylor Swift video. I think also at the end, there's a thing where it's like support... Sign this petition to support legislation to help queer communities. And afterwards, apparently there was a spike in donations to queer organizations, which I think is good.

Kayla: Yeah, for sure.

Sarah: But I do kind of agree with some people who have said online that it's probably not going to be much more than a drop in the ocean either way. I don't think it's going to have a huge... It's not going to change society or against queer communities. And I don't think... Here's what I'll say about Taylor. As I mentioned earlier, I've gone back and forth on her. I've liked her, I've not liked her. I'm at the point now where it's like I have a weary respect for her. She's not for me. Just her brand, it's just not my brand. And that's fine.

But I do respect a lot of the things she's done, but also, there are things she's done that I view as problematic. And so it's kind of like a wary respect. But I do try to be thoughtful about any criticism I give of someone like her. A lot of the criticism she gets is in part because she is a successful woman. And I do want to be aware of any inherent bias I might have, which as a woman, you don't want to believe that you have an anti-powerful woman bias, but I definitely think there is some.

Kayla: Oh, for sure.

Sarah: And so I try to be thoughtful about the way I am critical of her, and I think I'm better than I used to be, but I don't think she's a bad person. I don't think she means harm. I don't think that this video's going to do a ton of harm, but I also don't think it's going to do a ton of good. I kind of wish-

Kayla: Well, that's also-

Sarah: Go ahead.

Kayla: It's also kind of like... But for a celebrity to make a piece like this, is it a necessity that it does a ton of good? I mean, we can't expect everything to have a huge impact on society. So it's like, if it doesn't have a huge impact, should we just be like, no, you can't do it?

Sarah: And this reminds me of this discussion we had in my discussion section for my film history class. We were talking about Italian neo-realism, and the question is, do films have an obligation to do something about social change? If they present a problem, do they have an obligation to also present a suggestion for the solution? And different people have different answers to that question, and I think that can be applied to this as well. Does she have an obligation to... I don't think so.

Kayla: I mean, yeah, it's like I was saying earlier, do celebrities have an obligation to be doing political things and to be socially aware and expressive of their political opinions? On the one hand, I would say logically, I don't think that they have an obligation. But I also know that my knee-jerk reaction often to people not having opinions is bad, so-

Sarah: I think where I ultimately fall on that question is I don't think anyone has to use their platform a certain way, but I do I think have a greater appreciation for people who do use their platform and who don't just bandwagon. Who genuinely... You can tell that they're genuinely caring and they're genuinely trying to make change, because that's how change happens is powerful people speak up. And obviously if you're not a powerful person, you speaking up can also create change, but if you're a powerful person, you have a megaphone. And so I think for someone with as big as a megaphone as Taylor Swift, I kind of wished she used her platform a little bit better. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Kayla: I think it reminds me of a conversation I had in my feminist class, but we were talking about how the perfect celebrity feminist was Emma Watson, because she started... She was doing stuff at the HeForShe Campaign. She said some things that people didn't agree with, and so she took a year off of acting and just studied feminism. She read a ton of books and just studied and then came back and was like, all right, I'm more educated. I'm going to do all these things now. And so she's perfect, right? But it's like, can we really expect everyone to A, have the time and money and resources to do something like that and to be able to take a whole year off of their career to do something like that? It's just not feasible. See, I don't know. I think my current stance on Taylor Swift is just interest in curiosity. Just like-

Sarah: I want to see where it goes because I hope this is a trend that she continues beyond just pride month. I want her to ride the queer rights wave, not just chase the paycheck, but there's no way to know right now what's going to happen, so.

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: It's in the air. I do think that her moral of the story though is right, people do need to calm the fuck down.

Kayla: That's fair. Yeah. That is fair. So.

Sarah: There's that. Do you have anything else to add?

Kayla: Not really.

Sarah: Okay. What's our poll for this week? So the polls this week, we're going to have two. We're going to have one poll, first one, we're going to... Basically the question is, is companies having commercial pride campaigns a positive thing? Yes, no, neutral, I don't know yet, I think should be our options.

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: And then our second poll is going to be an open-ended poll asking about your thoughts on the Taylor Swift video. Please be civil to us and each other, and also, don't be horrible to Taylor Swift.

Kayla: Yeah, just be nice. I don't know.

Sarah: I would say try and embrace the view of Taylor Swift that I've embraced even if you don't like her, which is it's good to give valid criticism, but don't be a dick about it.

Kayla: Yeah. It's a good life philosophy. Cool.

Sarah: So Kayla?

Kayla: Yes.

Sarah: Do you have beef and juice prepared for this week?

Kayla: You know I don't.

Sarah: I do. I'll go first. My juice is the Jimmy Awards. So every year, for the past 11 years, there has been this thing called the Jimmy Awards, which is like the Tony Awards, but for high schoolers, and they have to... It's not in every state, which sucks, but a lot of states have their own regional awards, and if you win regional awards, you go on to the Jimmys. I watched basically the entire online video. I didn't watch it live, but I did watch it yesterday. I cried multiple-

Kayla: Oh my gosh.

Sarah: ... times. Kayla, their dreams are coming true. They're all so happy for each other. They were crying because their friends won. They lost-

Kayla: That is very sweet.

Sarah: ... and they were crying because their friends won. And this one girl, they hadn't even announced the female winner yet, but her friend won male and she just started crying on stage.

Kayla: I know Rachel Zegler, I think is how you say her last name, she's going to be playing Maria in the West Side Story movie. But she didn't win the New York one, and I guess she's never won, which is pretty crazy. But I remember her tweeting and being like, I don't care.

Sarah: Yeah.

Kayla: The thing I'm happy about is getting to do stuff that I love with my friends. And it's like, well, yeah that's a child.

Sarah: They're also incredibly supportive of each other and last year's two winners are both on Broadway right now.

Kayla: Yeah.

Sarah: Which is crazy, but they're all just so pure and they haven't been broken by the world yet, and they're also talented.

Kayla: They are. I wish I was that talented. My cat just licked my Apple.

Sarah: Oh, tasty. My beef of the week was originally going to be that I am not as talented as the children on the Jimmys, but I changed it because America is so fucked up. My beef of the week is the absolute bullshit-

Kayla: Stop licking my apple.

Sarah: The bullshit of Billie licking Kayla's apple. No. My beef of the week is the absolute bullshit that is going on with immigration policy in the United States, with the fact that we are killing children and continuing to put them in cages. And not give them food or bathe them or give them blankets or beds to sleep on, causing serious damage to these kids and these people. It is so fucked up. They are literal concentration camps, and then people are arguing about the semantics of calling it a concentration camp. Jesus Christ.

Kayla: Yeah, not really what we need right now.

Sarah: Yeah. Also, it's just the whole thing with Hitler was that it was many, many years of buildup and not enough was done until it was too late. And that is exactly what is happening, which is why I think it's perfectly fair to call them concentration camps.

Kayla: Yeah, it's really hard. The other day, I had this thought of this is going to obviously be in US history, and my kids or grandkids are going to ask me, what did you do? And it's like, I didn't do anything.

Sarah: Speaking of what can you do though, I would say to our listeners, if you're able, please donate to RAICES. R-A-I-C-E-S, they're @RAICESTexas on social media. Basically,. They help provide legal assistance to these people and just all sorts of assistance. I've donated. I would recommend if you're able to donate, do it. If not, donate your time. Donate your voice, use your platform. If you've got a megaphone, Taylor Swift, use it. Do what you can because it's so fucked up.

Kayla: Yeah, it sure is.

Sarah: Contact your representatives. I should do that. I got to do this. Also, just inform yourself. Things are fucking crazy and there is so much fucking news. And also, another person just came out with a rape allegation against Trump, and his response was, "She's not my type." So.

Kayla: Cool.

Sarah: Yeah. So America's fucked and please donate to racism. Or like the ACLU, honestly, anyone. Well, not anyone, but you know.

Kayla: Anyone good.

Sarah: Yeah. Planned Parenthood. Just everything's so fucked up.

Kayla: Yeah, it's bad.

Sarah: All right. What is your juice and beef of the week?

Kayla: Let's see. I'm going to say my juice is my family.

Sarah: Geez.

Kayla: Because I've been having a rough time and my family has been so amazing and very supportive, and it's honestly incredible, and I love them very much.

Sarah: Yeeet.

Kayla: My beef, I'm just going to say, is my cat licking my apple, because-

Sarah: I personally love that concept

Kayla: Because Sarah already did a serious one and you know... Yeah.

Sarah: All right, cool. Also, I forgot to say this at the beginning of the episode, I hope everyone's enjoying this stupid fucking Aven Swords episode. I hate it, but I'm glad you're all enjoying it.

Kayla: Oh my God. I love the responses.

Sarah: I've had multiple people be like, "Sarah, this is amazing." And I was like, "Oh, goddammit."

Kayla: I am very pleased with it.

Sarah: Oh, God. All right, so-

Kayla: Still waiting for someone to draw that creature.

Sarah: Same.I got to know. You could find us on the internet @SoundsFakePod everywhere. Soundsfakepod@gmail.com. If you want to tell us your beef, your juice. What did we talk about this week? Your thoughts. Your thoughts on whatever the fuck we talked about, commercialized Pride. Or you can answer our polls, that would be fun. If once you've donated to RAICES, you'll still have money left over, you are welcome to give it to us and help support this podcast. We have a PayPal and we also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Our $2 patrons are Keith McBlane, Roxanne, Alice is in Space, Anonymous, Nathan Dennison, Mariah Walter, and Jonathan. We also have a new $2 patron, Sarah McCoy. Hi, Sarah. Thank you. There's so many Sarahs around here. $5. Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney, Perry Fiero, my Aunt Jeannie, D, Benjamin Navarro, Megan Raul, Quinn Pollock, and a new one, Emily Collins. Hi, Emily Collins. Thank you.

Kayla: Hello, Emily. Thank you.

Sarah: Welcome to the party. Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa, @DirtyUncleKevin, @Tessa_M_K, Sarah Jones @EternalLolli and [inaudible 00:54:37] who would like to promote the Trevor Project. You can also donate to them. They're great. $15 patrons, Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhitedesigns.com. And my mom, who would like to promote free mom hugs. If you're like, what happened to anonymous? It was my mom all along. Listen to last week's episode.

Kayla: We love a secret revealed.

Sarah: Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday from our [inaudible 00:54:58].

Kayla: Until then, take good care of your cows.