Ep 92: Mental Health and Sexuality

[00:00:00]

SARAH: Hey what's up hello welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay a podcast where an aro-ace girl I'm Sarah that's me.

KAYLA: And a demi-straight girl that's me Kayla.

SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.

KAYLA: On today's episode, mental health and sexuality. 

BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.

[Intro Music]

SARAH: Welcome back to the pod. 

KAYLA: M’ama! Ooooh!

SARAH: God damn it. 

KAYLA: I thought that one like an hour ago, I was pretty pleased. 

SARAH: Oh no I didn't mean to laugh.

KAYLA: It's amazing when you have severe anxiety but then you have these random upswings at night and you suddenly can do things and your mind is like what?

SARAH: Classic. 

KAYLA: A few hours of fucking normalcy and that's what you come up with.

SARAH: Good. That's what we like to hear? Question mark.

KAYLA: I mean it's not but it is on topic for this episode but…

SARAH: It sure is. 

KAYLA: Before we get into the episode a reminder that we're still running our Sounds Fake survey 2019.

SARAH: We sure are. And if you're my sister and you have taken the survey and you just like passive aggressively say something at the survey just say it to me. We can discuss it. 

KAYLA: I think you should discuss it. 

SARAH: Maybe a podcast with me and my sister? We'll see. 

KAYLA: Yes. But also a lot of you have already filled it out so thank you and there's like a lot of really great episode ideas which is great because me and Sarah are running low.

SARAH: Oh we sure are.

KAYLA: Uh yeah. So that's all. 

SARAH: Big mood. 

KAYLA: Another thing we wanted to mention just before we get started because I think it would be just like incorrect of us to not talk about this on this podcast was the death of Bianca Devins. She was an asexual woman who was recently murdered. I don't know that many details. I don't know that anyone knows that many details yet.

SARAH: Yeah, they don't seem to have publicized too much information.

KAYLA: Right. I did see some talk online that it was pretty soon after she had come out as asexual and so people are thinking it might be linked. So yeah I guess I just thought we should mention it if anyone needs to talk or anything we're here. I know our Discord was talking about it a bit the other day so that's always there as a resource for you.

SARAH: Yes, if you are struggling with mental health slash suicidal ideation, which is just a fancy way to say suicidal thoughts, please reach out to someone whether it's something like Trevor Project, someone you know.

KAYLA: Yeah, I think especially with what we're talking about today it can be like I guess trigger warning that we're talking about mental health stuff so we can try to drop some resources down below of like help lines and stuff. So but know that we're here, the community is here, so if you need anything, holla up. 

SARAH: Heck Yeck. Kayla, what are we talking… did I already say that? No I didn't. 

KAYLA: Speaking of severe anxiety.

SARAH: What are we talking about this week?

KAYLA: Mental health.

SARAH: Yeah boy. 

KAYLA: And sexuality.

SARAH: Yeah boy.

KAYLA: That's all. 

SARAH: So yep, that's it. Bye. Thanks for joining us on this pod. 

KAYLA: Yep, thank you. 

SARAH: Okay, so mental health and sexuality. It seems that a lot of people who identify as queer in some way often have a higher chance of having mental health issues.

KAYLA: Yeah. 

SARAH: And, uh, that, you know, we knew that from anecdotal evidence, but there are some studies that do show it.

KAYLA: I think those studies are pretty, like, well known at this point. Like people, I think, talk about that, that like queer people have a higher rate of like mental health issues and also like suicide rates. 

SARAH: Yeah. I mean that's why they have like specific helplines for…

KAYLA: Yeah, that's why like the Trevor Project is a thing.

SARAH: Exactly. And there's now a trans helpline, which is good. So we found this article just kind of talking about the many studies that prove that queer people tend to have…

KAYLA: Well, don't say that.

SARAH: You're the fancy one. What does… 

KAYLA: Okay, so… 

SARAH: They provide evidence? 

KAYLA: Yeah, so you can't… 

SARAH: Okay.

KAYLA: In science, you can't ever say that you proved something because there always could be a study or evidence coming out to like change that, so we can never say that something was proven.

SARAH: They discuss the evidence that queer people are more likely to experience issues with mental health. 

KAYLA: Yes. 

SARAH: It was super interesting to me. Specifically, they were talking about women, how the reported rates of lifetime mood disorders for lesbians prevalence was 44.4%, 58.7% in bisexuals, and 36.5% in women who were on the verge of unsure of their sexual identity as compared to 30.5% in heterosexuals. I found it very interesting, but also telling that for bi women it was a solid 14% higher than lesbian women.

KAYLA: Yeah, I think that totally made sense to me, because I think, especially since bisexuality is just less talked about and less accepted still, and I think probably just more confusing for people.

SARAH: Yeah, and there are still people who are bi exclusionists and so if you're less recognized in queer communities and you're also not recognized necessarily within straight communities, then I can see why that would impact the way you view yourself and your life.

KAYLA: Yeah, yeah I thought, I had never thought about the fact that that might be true, but it made total sense to me.

SARAH: It was interesting though that for men, those who are identified as bi had slightly lower prevalence than gay men, which was interesting. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I don't even know what…

SARAH: Still higher than straight men, but…

KAYLA: Yeah, I can't even think of a reason why that would be necessarily.

SARAH: I can't either. I mean, I don't know. 

KAYLA: Women compared to men on the whole, was there a stat for that?

SARAH: I don't remember. It was a very long article. 

KAYLA: No, it wasn't. I skimmed it. I just think that something I was thinking about, I think I'm just used to reading articles like this and trying to think of, well, what else could be behind this? What could be another variable influencing this? Just because, I don't know, I had to write papers about that. One thing I was wondering was, just in general, I think women go to the doctor more than men do. I'm assuming a therapist or a psychiatrist also. But I was also wondering…

SARAH: Especially because it's an emotional thing, so it's less taboo for women.

KAYLA: Right. We're not trying to be stereotypical, but that's just how it is. 

SARAH: That's what society tells us is right, and a lot of people fall into that. 

KAYLA: Yeah. And the other thing I was wondering, if maybe for some reason queer people were just more comfortable reaching out for help or identifying on a survey that they were struggling with mental health. Because all of this data is coming from self-report surveys. It's very possible that people were lying. That happens with surveys all the time, is people just not telling you the truth. That's just a risk you run when you run a survey. So I was wondering like A, would queer people for some reason be more comfortable seeking out help for a mental problem? And so they would have something to report that, yes, I have gotten treatment and been diagnosed. Or would they just for some reason be more willing to say that on a survey?

SARAH: I mean, if they're out and they've had to take that leap, I feel like they might be more willing to talk about stuff like that just because of the personal nature of what it's like to come out. That may be kind of breaking through of, okay, maybe you're more willing to talk about other personal things in a situation like this. 

KAYLA: And that's not to say that I don't believe what these studies are saying about… and we'll get to this, I'm assuming, of why people think that like, why there is this evidence that queer people are suffering from more mental illnesses. Like, that's not to say that that isn't true. I just wonder about, you know, anything else that could be impacting that.

SARAH: Mm-hmm. I also thought it was interesting to note, at the beginning of the article they talk about how various different studies are not consistent with one another about how they define the non-heterosexual subject. Sometimes it's, I mean, it's pretty much always discussed in terms of same-sex attraction, which leads me to believe that they're not really including ace-spec identified people in their sample. And they were saying for some people it's about, like, sexual, it was about attraction. For some surveys it was about the way they act on it, and in other surveys it was more about how they identified. So that's inconsistent, which makes it kind of difficult to talk about. But… 

[00:10:00]

KAYLA: Yeah, I think, I mean, I definitely think that some of them were not inclusive of asexual people. I remember when I was skimming it, there was one survey that their question was basically, like, on a scale of one to ten, like, what are you? And zero was, like, completely attracted to men, and five was completely attracted to women, and like in the middle was basically bisexuality, so there was no option for none of the above.

SARAH: Yeah, and at one point one of the surveys discussed, like, in his article they said, quote, bisexual men, parentheses, that is men who reported an equal sexual preference for men and women, parentheses, end quote. I don't think that's a good definition of bisexual.

KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, it's very simplistic.

SARAH: Yeah, and so, I mean, I think going into the future I would like to see more nuanced studies on this kind of thing, including ace people, but... 

KAYLA: Yeah, I think it's so hard because it's such a personal thing, sexual orientation, and it is so nuanced, and for research, like, you know, that's not people's biggest concern, really, you know?

SARAH: Right. Yeah, and for some people who are still on their journey, they may, like, say they're straight, and then find out a of couple years later that they're not, and then they're, like, kind of put into the wrong bucket. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, I think some of the surveys were kind of, were worded like, you're heterosexual but have had, like, homosexual experiences, or like, so I think those were…. I don't know, preferable, I guess, because it takes into account, you know, people that don't necessarily fit in those certain identities, I guess. 

SARAH: But despite that, there was still a lot of evidence to conclude, can I say conclude?  

KAYLA: Suggest? Conclude? 

SARAH: Suggest? To suggest that queer people do have a higher prevalence of mental health issues, aka depression, anxiety, other mood disorders, fun stuff. 

KAYLA: And also, a higher rate of suicide and suicide ideation. 

SARAH: Yes. The question, why, has a complicated answer. The answer is, I mean, we don't know for sure, because there's a lot of parts of people's identities that overlap. But one of the things they did mention was the idea of social stress in marginalized groups, which makes a ton of sense to me.

KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah, I think what they discussed in the article was something I think that has been talked about in research a lot, it seems like. It's called the social stress model. So it's basically talking about the marginalization and stigma and all of that kind of thing that people of minority identities face. That is why there's a higher prevalence of mental health issues, is because these people are facing these extra stressors.

SARAH: Which, no duh. Yeah. Like, it's good that we have scientific articles where they talk about this, but like, yeah, of course that's true. 

KAYLA: Well yeah, I think it's definitely like, yeah, when I read that I was like, yeah, obviously. But I do think the interesting thing about, this is maybe getting a little too like, nitpicky or a little too like, I'm excited to be doing some psych stuff again since I haven't in a couple months.

SARAH: Kayla, were you a psych major? Were you in a feminism class? 

KAYLA: That was for my other major, so you put that away. But the one thing that I thought was interesting about that model is at one point in the article they were talking about, okay, how can we test if this model is like, really true? How can we find out if like, stress because of like, marginalization and everything, how can we find out if that really has an effect on mental health? And so some studies were looking at states in the United States that had legalized gay marriage, and they were looking at, okay, let's look at people, like queer people's mental health before it was legalized and then after and see if it's different. Or let's look at states that have like, anti-hate crime laws and see what those people's mental health is like. Making the assumption that because of these policies, because there are anti-hate laws, that there would be less hate crimes in that state. Which to me is just like, and obviously you have to pick a variable and there's, it's really difficult to test such a broad idea and that's the problem with all of psychology is how do you, you know, put a number to a feeling. Cat, I'm trying to have a serious conversation right now

SARAH: She just feels feelings and wants to share them with you.

KAYLA: She's playing with her toys, what's going on? It's, you know, how do you put a number on a feeling or how do you take this idea of stigma and put that in a way where you can run a statistical test on it? So to me that's the one thing I had a problem with was the way they were trying to test it of like, okay, how do you, you know, know that just because there's this law that these people are actually facing less marginalization? Do you know what I mean?

SARAH: Yeah, it's all complicated and it, uh, there's a reason I was in the psych major.

KAYLA: I don't know, I just, I think it's very interesting because on the outside. 

SARAH: I think it's interesting, I only kind of understand it.

KAYLA: Well, because on the outside it seems so simple. Like, yes, of course, these are people that are facing a lot of, you know, issues. They also talked about like the need to stay in the closet, how that could be very stressful and like higher rates of, um, like sexual violence and all of these different variables, which on the outside you're like, yeah, obviously, but looking at it from a research side, like how do you even test that? Like it's really just a theory.

SARAH: I did think that the part about, I believe they called it intimate partner violence, was interesting because they talked about how violence in relationships was more prevalent for gay and otherwise queer men rather than straight men

KAYLA: Really?

SARAH: Which I thought it was. And then, okay, so then I was thinking about it. I was like, why would this be the case? And I, all I could think of was like stereotypes about gender and violence and men supposedly being more physically violent than women. And I, but that was, that's totally falling into a stereotype. But I like couldn't think of anything else.

KAYLA: I would not have expected that.

SARAH: Yep. And so I didn't know how else to explain it other than like men are socialized to be more violent than women. And so if you have two men in a relationship, that makes it more likely question mark.  

KAYLA: Maybe it's because I know they also mentioned that queer people have a higher rate of like alcohol and drug abuse. 

SARAH: Yes.

KAYLA: Which like maybe that could play into it is like if you're already…

SARAH: That could 

KAYLA: If you're already suffering from an addiction, then maybe you're also more likely to behave violently.

SARAH: Right. Yeah, that's definitely possible.

KAYLA: I don't know. I'm not a scientist.  

SARAH: I am really not a scientist. 

KAYLA: I got a bachelor of arts in psychology. 

SARAH: You're a social scientist.

KAYLA: I am except for I didn't get a bachelor of science. I got a bachelor of arts. So am I?

SARAH: I got a bachelor of arts in something that has nothing to do with science. I took two astronomy classes. So I'm a scientist.

KAYLA: Yeah, for sure.

SARAH: But, so after kind of looking through this article, I was like, okay, I want to know more about asexuality and mental health and their connection. And I was like, I doubt I'll find much. But I looked it up anyway. I found an article, I found several articles where it was like, oh, wow, look at this scientific review that proves asexuality isn't a mental disorder after all. And I was like, cool, thanks, psychology today in 2016. We've been new.

KAYLA: Science is slow, Sarah.

SARAH: You know, whatever. Although it was interesting at the end of that article, they directly quoted the study. And it said, quote, we conclude that there is modest support for asexuality’s placement as a unique sexual orientation. There is however, likely as much variability among asexual individuals as lack of sexual orientation, and whether it does also extend to lack of romantic attraction, as there is among sexual individuals as presence of sexual attraction, unquote. Which it was interesting that they were like, there's modest support for asexuality’s placement as a unique sexual orientation. But I do think the follow up is like, there's a lot of variability among ace people's lack of attraction, similarly to how there's a lot of variability among Allo people's sexual attraction. And like, yeah, that's something that a lot of people fail to understand, but something we're trying to explain to them.

KAYLA: And I do wonder if that variability is also something that is keeping people because I read a lot of articles for the research project I did on asexuality. And, like, there was a lot of kind of dancing around of like, is this a sexual orientation? Is it not? And I think maybe how much variability there is, is one of the things kind of holding people back from saying that it is because, you know, it is there is a diversity of experiences.

[00:20:00]

SARAH: But there's such a diversity of experiences for literally every other sexuality too. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I think people just don't think about that.

SARAH: Yeah, they're just like, this thing is foreign and I don't understand it. And so, yeah

KAYLA: Yep 

SARAH: That's true. But so as I was looking this up, other than those annoying ones, I found some anecdotal stuff, which makes sense. I kind of expected that to be all that I would find. Which this one woman, and we'll post all of these links too. 

KAYLA: Yes.

SARAH: We're not just going to leave you hanging. 

KAYLA: No, we're not.

SARAH: This one person was saying that her therapist told her when she was 18, she had just come out, she had just discovered asexuality, she was like, this is awesome. Her therapist told her that her asexuality was probably a symptom of her depression and would go away. So that's cool. 

KAYLA: Yep.

SARAH: And this led to her never going back to that therapist and then waiting several years before she reached out to get help again with her depression. So it was several years before she had another therapist. This experience was obviously harmful to her mental health. And she also talks about how it was harmful to her development in a lot of other ways, in her understanding and acceptance of her sexuality, just in the way she understood relationships and how they were supposed to work. And if you're a therapist or a psychiatrist, don't fucking say that shit.

KAYLA: Yeah, to me, like, this is just, like, this person is such a bad therapist. Like, sexuality aside, like, having that kind of reaction, like, I have been to a many therapists, and I've never had someone, like, I tell my therapist something and they immediately jump to some conclusion. Like, there's a lot of back and forth talking. And then they, like, suggest something.

SARAH: Right, and there is some evidence that people who experience depression may have a lower libido. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, that's definitely… 

SARAH: Because of their depression. But that is not the same as asexuality. And you need to think about the complexity and nuances of these things before you just start, like, blurting out that, oh, you're not ace, it's just a symptom of your depression, it'll go away, you'll grow out of it. 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: So that's fun. I hadn't even thought about the fact about how, like, mental health professionals could be contributing to the harm. But now that I, like, after I read that, I was like, of course they can.

KAYLA: Yeah, yeah.

SARAH: Because, I mean, now, like, often, like, if you're looking up psychiatrists, a lot of them will be like, you know, like, my specialties include divorce, blah, blah, blah, LGBTQ+ issues, which, I mean, I think that's great and amazing and wonderful. I will say, though, that for ace people, just because they say that they deal with LGBTQ patients doesn't mean that they understand asexuality.  

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: And so even if they are, you know, experienced with dealing with LGBTQIA+ issues, they may not understand asexuality. And that can be harmful to you.

KAYLA: Yeah, yeah, it can be. I mean, it's the same as with anyone when you decide to, like, come out as asexual or explain it, there's always a risk that someone is going to not have any idea what you're talking about or not accepting at all. I remember my last therapist, when I brought it up because of like the podcast and stuff, I don't think she had ever heard of it, or didn't really know what it was. So I like, you know, I described it to her. She was amazing about it. And it was just like, okay, cool. And then like, carried on and whatever. So I was very lucky in that regard. But yeah.

SARAH: Yeah, I, when I was seeing my therapist, like at the beginning, like she had me like fill out a form of just like a bunch of basic information. And for the sexuality one, I put prefer not to say, because I just like didn't want to get into it. And then she like asked me why I said that. And I was being cagey. 

KAYLA: Shocking 

SARAH: And then like… eventually, I was just like, I mean, I'm ace. Like, I just, you know, and she was like, well, why didn't you put that to begin with? If you were like, okay, telling me and I was like, because, like, I didn't, I didn't know. Yeah, I never know what someone's reaction is going to be. I'm, you know, I've met you like once, like, I just I, I know that you're a professional and your job is to be nice to people. 

KAYLA: But obviously, sometimes that doesn't happen.

SARAH: Yeah. So, I totally understand that being an issue. And then, after reading that little article…

KAYLA: Well, I have one comment on that article. 

SARAH: Hit me with it.

KAYLA: I was just, you know, in a really nitpicky mood, I guess. One thing in the article that I wasn't quite, like, agreeing with, I guess, was, so the writer did talk a little bit about, what's the disorder called? 

SARAH: Oh, like the hypo... Yeah. Sexual, basically the DSM disorder that is supposedly about a lack of sex drive. 

KAYLA: Yeah. So she was kind of…

SARAH: We've discussed it before. 

KAYLA: Yeah, there's like a whole episode about it. So she was talking about how, like, you know, some therapists or doctors will, like, bring this up and say, like, you have this. And she was kind of giving these, like, comparisons and, like, contrasting them. And one thing she said was, like, know, you there's going to be a difference in the patients that come in. Asexual people are probably going to come in and be, like, perfectly happy with their situation, like she was when she went to a therapist and was, like, oh, I'm asexual. I'm so glad I have this word. And then the therapist just, like, you know, shut her down. And then she was saying, you know, people with this disorder are probably going to be a lot more distressed. Which I can see why you would say that, of, like, someone that isn't asexual and maybe has something like this disorder or is depressed and has less sex drive than normal and really is, like, not asexual and, like, concerned about this for, like, a health reason. Which, like, is totally possible. That's, like, a thing that happens. Um, that, you know, like, sex drive is just a part of the human body. Like, it changes. It's a chemical thing. Like, it's not all linked to sexuality, like, in that way. So, like, I can see why she said that, but I also have had a lot of experiences since we started this podcast with people coming to us being, like, I don't like that I'm like this.

SARAH: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.  

KAYLA: Yeah, and, like, really upset that this is maybe their sexuality or something that they're dealing with. I just don't think that that's, like, entirely true. As with any sexuality, it's sometimes hard to accept.

SARAH: It's precisely the same as with any other sexuality. Like, you may be at a point where you're cooling down with it, but that's not always everyone's journey. I think the way that you should be able to tell between these two things is you look at changes in someone's sex drive or libido or whatever. Rather, like, over time, you know, ace people generally have, you know, over time you see a lot of characteristics that are fairly consistent with the ace umbrella. But if someone is like, oh, I used to have a very high sex drive and now I don't, that's a different situation. 

KAYLA: And like, obviously it's going to be different for every person, but yeah, if someone comes in and is like, yeah, I started getting really depressed and then my sex drive went down or like, I had this like, terminal illness and then it went away. Like that's, yeah, it's very different.

SARAH: That's, yeah, it's, and to me it's very obvious when it's one and not the other, but to a lot of people who don't understand asexuality, they don't have that understanding. 

KAYLA: Right 

SARAH: So in addition to this, I was surprised to find a study that is about mental health and asexuality.

KAYLA: Yeah. 

SARAH: Kayla, you have some tea on this?

KAYLA: I do. Okay. 

SARAH: Give me the tea.

KAYLA: So this was, just to like describe it, this was like your standard research article of like, we're going to like find all of these asexual people. I think a lot of them they found through like AVEN forums and like Craigslist or something. So they just like put out things and were like, hey, do you want to be in this study? And so they sent people like a survey and a questionnaire, basically like finding about, here, hold on, let me pull this up so I don't.

SARAH: The reason I wanted you to read this was because I knew you would understand it way more than me.

KAYLA: I mean, I got to be honest Sarah this is a very typical...

SARAH: But I'm not used to it. 

KAYLA: No, I know, for me, no, I totally understand. 

SARAH: So like you just have a, it's much more natural for you, whereas for me I have to be like, what the fuck is that?

KAYLA: No, yeah, for me this is the kind of, I've read a lot of these articles and so I learned how to read them. 

SARAH: I didn't.  

[00:30:00]

KAYLA: Yeah, I literally took like a class, like we had weeks of class learning how to read these papers. So, yes, they basically sent people like surveys in this questionnaire. So they measured like demographic information, that random stuff. They did a symptom inventory, which was basically like how many symptoms of these random, not random, but like of these mood disorders do you have, like depression, anxiety, phobic anxiety was one of them. So basically just like so that they could tell like who was displaying these mood disorders. And then we get to like the real meat. The beef is something called the inventory of interpersonal problems. And they used a shortened version of it, but that doesn't really matter. So it's basically it's called a battery of questions. And so it's... 

SARAH: Such an aggressive term. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I know. So it basically has like eight kind of parts or they call them subscales for, and this is all about like interpersonal ways of being. So the eight subscales are domineering, vindictive, cold, socially avoidant, non-assertive, exploitable, overly nurturant, and intrusive. And then for each of these items, they have like questions and you write them from like not at all to extremely. So I was trying to look this up so I could find the exact question there. And I couldn't find it because I guess you have to like buy it or be a real scientist or something. But it was basically questions like, I feel like comfortable being close to someone or, you know, so like stuff like that. And… actually let me look it up, see if I can find, because I think they were good examples. So some of the questions are like, it is hard for me to trust other people, say no to others, join in on groups, keep things private from other people, let other people know what I want, tell a person to stop bothering me. And then you rate it from zero, not at all, to extremely, which is a four. Which is also the optimal Likert scale, it's called a Likert scale. And the optimal one is from one to seven, so they're already not doing a good job. But that's the tea. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: But I took a whole class on surveys. 

SARAH: Oh yeah, you did. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I did. So basically, they had people fill this out. And what they found was A, asexual people are more likely to have mood disorders. And they related that to asexual people experience a lot of the same adversity as other queer people, which was, I was like, haha. 

SARAH: Whoa. Wild

KAYLA: All the people who say, so they did actually say that. Yeah. Which I was like, okay, that's good that you recognize that.

SARAH: Someone recognizing that publicly? What? 

KAYLA: I know. 

SARAH: Sounds fake, but okay.

KAYLA: Here's what bothered me. And I mean, it did happen statistically, significantly. So the numbers are there, but they basically found that asexual people had more of these like interpersonal problem traits. So they found that asexual people had, let's see, they exhibited elevated social inhibition and cold slash distant scores. And so this basically led to like some speculation about, so there's something called the attachment styles that they look at in young children with their mothers. They do these whole tests with babies and their moms and like what happens when the mom leaves the room and the baby is alone. So they basically were speculating that asexual people may have had the avoidant attachment style as young children. Basically, they just like aren't as connected to their parents, which it says, which in turn might have led to problems developing intimate relationships later in life. So they're basically saying that like this is the cause or like the root of asexuality. So that is, I mean I can, the thing is I can see where that comes from. Like I understand where that speculation comes from. My main problem with this is looking at, and they do even mention this in the article about, you know, a reason maybe that asexual people are scoring on the more cold side or the more like distant side is because they've had to grow up in a world that's very sexual and they don't experience that. The article did talk about that, which I thought was a great point and I was glad they brought that up because that's another thing I think people don't talk about a lot is that there's this very sexual world and for asexual people it is very alienating. And so they did bring it up of like maybe that's why these people are scoring like this. My main concern and like question, and obviously I just have a bachelor's degree in psychology so like I'm not an expert. 

SARAH: But you got a degree, bitch. 

KAYLA: But I do have a degree. My wonder is when writing this battery the people who wrote it were probably men, probably white, and probably not asexual. So I'm wondering, and this is why I wanted to find the questions to read them, is these questions were probably written with the idea in mind that people should be romantically and sexually interested in other people, not taking into account that people wouldn't be. So you know for these answers, like saying no to other people, are you…  like is it hard for you to say no to other people? If you are asexual, you might say no I'm not comfortable with this, but it might be because like you're living in this very sexual world. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Like so these questions I think there's a potential that the reason that asexuals were found to like score more on these like interpersonal problems is because this survey wasn't written with the idea in mind that there are people who don't experience this type of attachment in this type of interpersonal relationship.

SARAH: Yeah, definitely. 

KAYLA: So that was my main tea. 

SARAH: That's the tea.

KAYLA: And obviously like I haven't done… I haven't read anything about this battery of questions, so like I don't know anything about it, but I mean I would… 

SARAH: A battery of questions 

KAYLA: It’s a battery of questions. Why are laughing at me? 

SARAH: It sounds so stupid. 

KAYLA: It does. But like I'd be very willing to bet about the kinds of people that wrote this, you know?

SARAH: Do they like think that they were like attacking the subjects with the… like do you think that impacted the way they answered that it was called a battery?

KAYLA: Well I don't think… you never tell people that probably. I don't know. 

SARAH: It's funny. 

KAYLA: Okay. 

SARAH: It's lame. 

KAYLA: I should tell people to take the battery of questions that is our yearly survey.

SARAH: Take 36 questions. A battery of questions that will make you fall in love.

KAYLA: Oh my god. But like yes.

SARAH: Oh my god. Okay. But conclusion, this study does suggest that asexual people do have higher likelihood of mood disorders and anxiety disorders.

KAYLA: Yeah. And it was like the same kind of reasoning like the social stress thing of like these are people that are like facing a lot of adversity. Which I was very pleased that they like straight up said in the article that like asexual people face a lot of the same issues as other queer people. And I was like oh yeah we're saying that. Okay. 

SARAH: They sure do.

KAYLA: Indeed.

SARAH: Cool. Do you have anything else to add on the subject?

KAYLA: Uh sorry if this episode was like way too much for people. 

SARAH: Listen we wanted to talk about sexuality and mental health but it's kind of hard to talk about those things without looking at the evidence that it is more difficult or more likely that that queer people will have mental health issues. So…

KAYLA: Yeah I just this stuff I haven't done it in a while and it's fun it's exciting so…

SARAH: Conclusion um be there for the people around you uh it's not where I was going but it's true. 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: Be there for the people around you especially the queer folk because you know there's a lot going on in the world. Yeah. 

KAYLA: Not necessarily but it's possible. I mean everyone's sad sometimes. 

SARAH: That's true. Okay uh what's our poll for this week? 

KAYLA: Oh Lord.

SARAH: Lord 

KAYLA: Yes. On the most recent episode of uh Into the Grids that we recorded Jared was like we should do like a trivia question and Perry straight up said I listen to Sounds Fake but Okay and I know the problem with doing something like that weekly you'll regret it and I was like that's true.

SARAH: That's so true.

KAYLA: I regret it every day of my life. 

SARAH: I regret it every day. Our poll this week is uh you know those um squeaky chickens?

KAYLA: Yeah. Why? Oh my god. Okay so I can't… there are so many things you get mad at me for doing on this podcast and then you just do that like I don't. 

SARAH: What do I get mad at you for?  

KAYLA: Um everything? 

SARAH: What?  

KAYLA: The Mmms? 

SARAH: I just hate that in general, it has nothing to do with the podcast. 

KAYLA: Okay still though.

SARAH: It's just pure innocent hatred.

KAYLA: Oh interesting. I hate this.  

SARAH: I don't know what our poll is it'll be a surprise.

KAYLA: What? Sarah no. If we don't figure it out now we never will and then it'll be Sunday and I'll be like oh no. 

SARAH: Free week.

KAYLA: We are just not going to do one? 

SARAH: Just be like what should our poll be this week?

KAYLA: Oh my god. That’s such a good idea.  Okay we're going to save that in our draft.

SARAH: Cool okay. Okay uh what is your beef and juice this week? 

[00:40:00]

KAYLA: My juice is that I'm seeing The Prom on Sunday.

SARAH: It's so good. I've seen it. It's amazing. It closes August 11th if you can get yourself to New York City. 

KAYLA: Along with everything else.

SARAH: Yeah everything is closing. They recently announced Beautiful is closing, Waitress is closing. 

KAYLA: I didn't see that one.  

SARAH: Yeah, also right now I'm looking at this um pin I got button thing that I got when I saw The Prom and it says I belong at Prom and it's very nice. Just looking at it right now. 

KAYLA: I'm seeing that, I'm seeing that on Sunday with a new work friend. 

SARAH: Yay! We love new work friends. 

KAYLA: We love um and I'm not going to do a beef because I'm trying to do this thing where I like every day I write down my like small accomplishments and like small happy things that happen because it has been rough y'all so…

SARAH: Very good  

KAYLA: We're just not going to do that.

SARAH: Proud. Okay I have multiple things. One juice is that Brooklyn 99 exists in both the Marvel and DC comic universes so that's important to know.  

KAYLA: I did see that. 

SARAH: Uh another juice is that I finally have my surgery for my wrist scheduled.

KAYLA: That's such an odd juice to have. 

SARAH: I mean beef that I have to get the surgery honestly aside from the Brooklyn Nine-Nine juice all of my juices are also beefs. 

KAYLA: Shocking 

SARAH: Like sad I have to get the surgery but glad it's finally scheduled. I made a good tweet about seeing the doctor follow me on twitter at @costiellie c-o-s-t-i-e-l-l-i-e. 

KAYLA: Oh my God 

SARAH: Uh also juice I am going to a gay wedding this weekend. Beef it is an outdoor wedding it's supposed to be 95 degrees Fahrenheit with high humidity so it should feel like 105 degrees Fahrenheit and it's supposed to thunderstorm. 

KAYLA: There's a heat advisory where I live.  

SARAH: There's also heat advisory here.

KAYLA: Yeah that's how bad it is. 

SARAH: It's pretty hot in America right now especially like in the Midwest and the East Coast.

KAYLA: I walked to work today and it was super humid out because it rained all day and let me tell you that my hair has never looked worse. 

SARAH: Yeah it's… 

KAYLA: Here's a mistake

SARAH: Yeah, it was a lot I had practice outdoors today it was very bad. Ooh. I just did a little googling 95 Fahrenheit is 35 Celsius and then 105 Fahrenheit is 40.5 Celsius so pray for me it's going to be good but it's going to be bad you know. And my major beef is that a couple days ago my sister found a gray hair on my head….

KAYLA: Yeah

SARAH: Okay here's the deal I recognize that genetically it is genetically likely that I will end up with a full head of gray hair at some point in my life… 

KAYLA: It’s true 

SARAH: Mom’s side of the family, dad's side of the family my mom's dad like he didn't go gray until he was like 70 at all and he still has a lot of like dark hair but like he's the exception not the rule you know and I'm sure I'm going to go full gray but I am 21. I don't want to be finding gray hair on my head I also tweeted about that @costiellie.  

KAYLA: You had a lot of tweets going on recently.

SARAH: Yeah, I had I had a tweet about how I wanted to say rip in an email because I'm 21 and then I had a tweet about how I found a gray hair on my 21-year old head and then I had a tweet about how I was 80 because I… one of my first thoughts when seeing my new doctor was well he's young and he’s a fast talking son of a gun. Those three tweets were consecutive. Am I 21 or am I 80?

KAYLA: Definitely 80. Have you seen your back?

SARAH: I can't see my own back no

KAYLA: Well…

SARAH: Just because of like anatomy where my head is and my eyes are.

KAYLA: Well just trust me it's fucked up.

SARAH: Okay thank you.

KAYLA: No problem.

SARAH: Cool so that's my beef and my juice. If you want to tell us what our poll should be…

KAYLA: Please do

SARAH: This week you can find us on all social media @soundsfakepod but we especially use twitter.

KAYLA: We sure do.

SARAH: You can also support us on Patreon if you'd like to. We would appreciate it very much. Our $2 patrons are: Keith McBlane, Roxanne, AliceIsInSpace, anonymous, Nathan Dennison, Mariah Walzer, and Jonathan and changelingmx which they found it very amusing us struggling to pronounce their name last week and I said did I pronounce it right and they go maybe and I was like that's ominous. 

KAYLA: Should we do it different every week and then hope that they one day tell us which time it was right?

SARAH: Changelingmx. 

KAYLA: Yes, perfect.

SARAH: All right. Our $5 patrons are: Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney, Perry Fiero, Aunt Jeannie, Dee, Benjamin Ybarra, Meagan Rowell, and Quinn Pollock. Our $10 patrons are: Kevin and Tessa, @dirtyunclekevin and @tessa_m_k, Sara Jones, @eternalloli, and Arcness. Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote Tabletop Games, and our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, and my mom Julie who would like to promote free mom hugs. Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.

KAYLA: Until then, take good care of your cow.