Ep 293: Can AI Help You Date?
Transcription Details
Customer Name: Sounds Fake But Okay Podcast
Date: March, 03, 2024
Speakers in the Audio File
Speaker 1: Sarah
Speaker 2: Kayla
Episode 293: Can AI Help You Date?
[00:00:00]
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah that's me.
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, that's me Kayla.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, Using AI to Date.
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
[Intro Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Oh, it's so sad.
SARAH: I have COVID.
KAYLA: After many years of a valiant battle…
SARAH: Over four years
KAYLA: A valiant battle
SARAH: I evaded that virus for over four years.
KAYLA: You might have the record, you know.
SARAH: No, my dad has never had it.
KAYLA: That bitch. So, everyone be sad for Sarah.
SARAH: I do apologize for how I sound. I do sound better than I did first thing this morning.
KAYLA: Love that.
SARAH: So, there's that for you.
KAYLA: Excellent
SARAH: I'm like 70% here, so
KAYLA: That's… I mean, that's… I feel like even sometimes on a normal time recording, you're not even that there, so you know
SARAH: Well, I'm 70% here to start. I don't know that we’re going to end
KAYLA: We'll see how we do. I think I can get… I think I can boost it up. I can raise you up.
SARAH: No, don’t
KAYLA: Anyway, is it working?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: I had two sips of a Panera charged lemonade and I'm feeling great.
SARAH: Feeling charged
KAYLA: Wait, Sarah, I had news to tell you off pod and I forgot to can I tell you right now?
SARAH: Sure. Anyway, back to the grind. You know, we do what we do need to say. First of all…
KAYLA: And we need to keep this house.
SARAH: We have a housekeeping. The housekeeping is that I remember how last week I was like, I'm going to the Dear Luke, Love, Me… And then I got COVID.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, if you don't follow us on Instagram, you may have missed this, but we ended up giving my tickets away to a lovely, lovely follower. And they went and they had a delightful time.
KAYLA: And they sent a picture and they said that they were going to think about the movie for a long time. And that was really, really good. They said it was very delightful
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, I can't wait to finally see it one day.
SARAH: Yes, me too. And also, they are the Dear Luke, Love, Me folks are… they're hoping to get an audience choice award.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And you don't have to have been there to vote for it.
KAYLA: Just saying
SARAH: So, it's between now, which is March 1st, which none of you are listening on March 1st. But if you're listening up until March 5th, 2024, you can you can vote for Dear Luke, Love, Me to win an audience choice award to maybe help it reach more eyeballs and ear balls.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: So, we will share the link for that in...
KAYLA: Do you have that?
SARAH: I will. I’ll ask them for it
KAYLA: Okay, I will put the link in the description of this podcast.
SARAH: So, if you want to vote for an ace movie, go do it
KAYLA: You should because I would really like to actually see it one day.
SARAH: Me too
KAYLA: The other housekeeping that I have is that do you remember when 1000 years ago, me and Sarah made a playlist on Spotify, and we were like, it's a no love song playlist. And we put a bunch of songs on it. And then we proceeded to do nothing with it. We just kept forgetting to add new songs.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And also, it was on Sarah's Spotify and Sarah doesn't do what she's told. So…
SARAH: I'm an anarchist.
KAYLA: Yeah, Sarah doesn't listen to the man, the man being me. So, I was like, I'll just put the playlist on my Spotify because I'm more likely to get bored at work and do things like that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And also, we've had our lovely new pictures taken by Ben Catlin.
SARAH: Mm hmm.
KAYLA: The most beautiful man. And one of them, Sarah was like, this looks like a Heim cover photo album.
SARAH: Yeah, it looks like a Heim cover.
KAYLA: And then so I said, okay, and I made it the covers of the thing. Anyway, all this to say there's a new playlist. So, if you've saved the old playlist, which like 500 of you have, which is wild, that one still exists, but will never be updated. So, if you want the new one, I'll put the link to that in the description as well.
SARAH: Could I not just have transferred the old one to you?
KAYLA: I looked and I don't think so.
SARAH: Oh, okay.
KAYLA: I couldn't see a way and also you were dying and I was bored.
SARAH: That’s true
KAYLA: So, I was like, I want to do this now. I don't want to wait an hour for her to answer.
SARAH: It needs to happen right now.
KAYLA: Yeah, I really could. I don't have impulse control or whatever it's called delayed gratification. So, you know?
SARAH: Yeah, okay.
KAYLA: Anyway, so that's also there. I don't remember, I feel like we had one more housekeeping but
KAYLA: I don't remember what it would be.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: So, I guess we'll never know.
SARAH: Okay. Kayla?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: What are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, we are talking about artificial intelligence and how people…
SARAH: Boo
KAYLA: Yes, boo, tomato, tomato, and how people are using it to help them date, because I was looking at the Cosmopolitan newsletter. And a couple of weeks ago, they put out like a whole like collection of articles. There was like 10 different articles all about like AI and dating. They all had very beautiful pictures like the graphics they did. That's like look at that, that’s bad
SARAH: Were they AI?
KAYLA: I hope not. I really… No, there's a name attached to them. Thank God. Imagine. Anyway, so they did like a whole collection of articles about this and I thought it was really interesting. So, I said this is what we're talking about.
SARAH: And I said, great.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: I'm just here.
KAYLA: Sarah said good, you have to drive anyway. Sarah, I think we all know but what are your thoughts on AI to start with?
SARAH: Bad. Hate it. Ugly.
KAYLA: Yeah. Do you hate… okay, because here's what I was thinking about. And some of that it came from like examples in these articles. Do you hate all AI? Or is it like the more ChatGPT stuff? Because thinking about it like your like Spotify recommended playlists and stuff like that is technically artificial intelligence, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. I mean, I don't have issues with AI as a basic concept. I have an issue with the way that people have started using it.
KAYLA: Yes, that makes sense.
SARAH: So really, my issue is with the non-AI.
KAYLA: The issue is with like the new AI companies that are coming out like making things like ChatGPT or like the art ones that look just like copy art and stuff like that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, I would agree. I actually… So, I feel like I've talked about this several times in the podcast, but I read applications for work for people that want to be like brand ambassadors. And twice now I've received an application that was blatantly written using ChatGPT like so so so clearly. And I was like, I don't…
SARAH: Like where it's like, as an AI, whatever, whatever.
KAYLA: No, no, no. Not that clear. But like one of the questions we ask is like, why do you want to be a brand ambassador? And it was just very, very general of like, why anyone would want to be a brand ambassador for any brand just basically like why you would want a job.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And then we also asked them like, what would you do as a brand ambassador? And there was paragraph like chunky paragraphs of like, here's what I would do on social media. And here's what I would do whatever. And it was like so clearly the most vague shit you'd ever read. Like you could just tell. So, I actually responded to the person and did our regular like we're not moving forward with your application at this time. And I straight up said, if you choose to apply to this again, use your own words. Do not use AI. Because I was like…
SARAH: Damn
KAYLA: This is a college student. And if they think applying to jobs is going to work like this, like they need to learn now.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That that isn't going to apply. So, I very nicely was like, brother, you want to reapply, maybe stop being stupid.
SARAH: Maybe use your own words.
KAYLA: Yeah. So anyway, that's, yep. One of the first articles I read that I think is very interesting and is like a good place to start was talking about… this article is called the truth about bias and AI power dating technology. Again, these are all on Cosmo, I will link there's like three articles I read, I'll link them also in the description. But this one was really interesting. So obviously it talks about the bias that comes from AI because if you didn't know how AI works is it scans the internet basically and takes all of the information on the internet and it kind of compresses it and then it just spits that out as knowledge. So, what this person said, Jamie Cohen, Cohen, is it Rhaina Cohen's sister? Anyway
SARAH: No, that's just a very common last name
KAYLA: Okay, I don't need this one for now. Jamie said, we forget that we're talking about data sets or language models. The major models we're using today are extremely exclusive and that means they're very problematic. And it goes on to talk about how the majority of models are created and trained by Cis white men, like AI models like ChatGPT are created by largely cis white men. And then they're pulling information from everywhere on the internet, which the article says the place where 4chan lives, in case you need reminding. So, it takes information from everywhere, including the bad places and then it's trained by a white man.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And Maria Avgitidis.
[00:10:00]
SARAH: You're doing so good.
KAYLA: That's wild.
SARAH: You’re really brave
KAYLA: The host of Agape Match, an Ask a Matchmaker podcast, so a matchmaker, said that we've already seen the AI discriminating against people based on gender or race when reviewing job applications at certain companies. Why wouldn't it also discriminate against people in the online dating experience? So, she was specifically talking about people using an AI matchmaker and how that could become biased and just not show you certain people because of their race or gender, other things like that. So yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. I mean, I feel like so often when we, when we think of AI, we think of it as like, oh, like artificial intelligence that is like sentient, like in the movies, like it's like, it's a form of sentience, but the way that AI exists in our world is not that at all. It's basically just a, you know, mashing all of the information we have together and spitting out like an average or a mean.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: And so, it represents all of the human biases of the information that it's chewing up and spitting out and like the perspectives that don't exist in, you know, a lot on the internet are not getting their proper weight in AI's chewing up and spitting this, this garbage out.
KAYLA: Yeah. I've also heard just for AI in general, there's a fear that as more AI written content gets published online and like blogs or things like that, that then AI is also reading that information. So, then it starts cannibalizing itself or it's reading information from other AI's and then it gets confused because it's like, but I wrote that. So that just gets into the cycle because you're right. Like AI cannot exist without us putting information into it first. But if we only put AI generated information into it, then it's like, well now where are we?
SARAH: Well, I saw recently some posts about how, um, I guess it may have been ChatGPT was just like glitching so hard.
KAYLA: Oh yeah. It was being creepy to people.
SARAH: And it was just like repeating the same thing over and over and over and over again. And then…
KAYLA: Yeah, it was being a real creep.
SARAH: Yeah. Or like when someone was trying to have it speak in Spanglish, it was just like making up words that were not words in either Spanish or English.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And it was just like, you know, it still, when it glitches, it glitches hard.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's scary. Yeah. Do you want to hear some ways that you can practically use AI in your dating life?
SARAH: I mean, no, but like I’ll listen.
KAYLA: Okay. Well, we can go through it. There's like five. We can go through them and decide if we think it's okay or not.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Perhaps. Because there's some of these, I'm like, yeah. Okay. And others I'm like, that's bananas. This is an article by Jessica Goodman in the Cosmopolitan. So, the first one was for nailing your visuals. So, Bumble already has an in-app tool called best photo that uses machine learning to tell you which is the most effective picture to put first in your dating profile. Um, I guess Tinder is going to come out with something similar. This I don't actually mind.
SARAH: Yea. I think that’s okay
KAYLA: I don't think you should trust it wholesale. Like I think you should have your own opinion still, but this to me is like, if it's based on machine learning of what types of pictures people swipe yes on. And it's like this picture is similar to that, then I could understand why that would be helpful.
SARAH: Yeah. And I think it's not like, like you're still inputting all of the information. It's the only thing it's telling you is what order it suggests you put them in.
KAYLA: Right. Yeah. You still have complete control. It's basically just telling you like based on other people's success, this is what we have found works on the app.
SARAH: And if you don't like what it says, you can say, no, I'm not doing that.
KAYLA: Yeah. So that one I don't mind because I also feel like I already hear so many people like strategizing about their pictures. There's like, you need a full body one and you have to have the funny one, but you put this one first. Like that's already such a thing from what I understand that it's like, sure. You know?
SARAH: I hate it.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know, man. Ready for the second one?
SARAH: I've never been more ready about it
KAYLA: Okay. The second one is for sounding like your best self. So, it says the same tools that can zhuzh. Do you know how they spell zhuzh?
SARAH: How did they spell it?
KAYLA: Z-H-U-Z-H. I have to assume that means zhuzh.
SARAH: Z-H-U… Zhuzh. Yeah, I guess. The problem...
KAYLA: But I've never seen it before
SARAH: The problem with zhuzh and yuzh as in usual… I would like to apologize in advance to our lovely transcriber
KAYLA: Sorry
SARAH: Is that there's no good way to spell them.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: And so, they really only work when you say them.
KAYLA: What? Yeah.
SARAH: It's because English is the world's most inefficient language.
KAYLA: Literally. So anyway, the same tool that can zhuzh your resume, like free virtual writing coaches or Grammarly, which Grammarly I guess also is an AI, but I like Grammarly.
SARAH: I don't use Grammarly.
KAYLA: It's basically autocorrect, but like it'll also do more intense grammar stuff.
SARAH: I'm too smart for that.
KAYLA: Yeah. Well, if you pay for it, it tells you the vibe of your writing. It'll be like, this was a cheerful sentence.
SARAH: Oh, okay.
KAYLA: Anyway, so if you're stuck on where to start with like your bios or like hinge has prompts, like I'm competitive about blank, wait, blah, blah, blah. You know, you could use chat GPT to write in what's a good answer for.
SARAH: No. That's not representative of you.
KAYLA: Right. This to me is where we start getting stupid because that's not your answer. You're just typing in the chat, ChatGPT, what's a good answer for, which is exactly what that person whose resume I read did.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, and then it's not going to sound like you and then you're going to start texting the person and they're going to be like, who are you?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Or you meet them in person and they're like, huh?
SARAH: Yeah. Like I understand you want to maximize your chances of meeting someone who you hit it off with, but to do that, you have to sound like yourself in your… like in your profile.
KAYLA: Right, because even if you're not going for like a long-term relationship, you truly only want to see this person once and hook up like getting them to go out with you in person still isn't the final step. Like they could meet you and be like huh and leave and then you don't hook up, you know?
SARAH: Right. Yeah
KAYLA: So, it's like, you still have to worry about like catfishing basically.
SARAH: Right. And it's like, I understand that like you want to maybe like get as many options as possible, but again, they also have to choose it as like… as you said, like they don't choose you just once. Like it's a constant back and forth of like whether they want to still be here.
KAYLA: Yeah, exactly. I also just… I think there's so much pressure again from what I've heard, I haven't been on the apps for a while, but there's so much pressure to those opening lines or whatever to be like perfect or people are trying to be super funny or whatever. So, it's like, I understand wanting help because it does seem like there's a lot of pressure there to make that first impression, but it's also like getting someone to swipe right might feel like the biggest part of the battle or whatever, but also it's not going to be worth anything if they just swipe right and then they're immediately like, who the fuck are you?
SARAH: Right. And also, like what if you say something specific and then they ask you about it.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: And you can't even… you can't even have a conversation about it.
KAYLA: Yeah. Like I would hope that the things people are using aren't complete lies that they would like take a suggestion that's also true.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But still, so here's this… I'm going to skip the third option and go to the fourth one because it's similar. You could use it for better opening lines. So, there's an AI called Your Move AI which is…
SARAH: Hello Momma, what’s up? I'm here for all of your opening needs
KAYLA: I think you need help. So, we could use this actually if we wanted to go have some fun. So, Your Move AI will send you the message that you should send the person. And also, if you put in what the person said to you, it will suggest what you should respond.
SARAH: So, like if they said, Heyyy, with three Ys, it'll tell you to respond with, Heyyyy, with four Ys.
KAYLA: Yes, exactly. Like it… I guess you can ask how do I respond to make the conversation more interesting when someone asks what my favorite food is, is a suggestion by, Thomas Edwards, professional wing man. Okay?
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Says nobody wants their interactions reduced, um, to two horned…
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Nobody wants their interactions reduced to horned up robots chatting. So, use these tools as a way to speed up the creation process, then add in your own elements to make it uniquely yours.
SARAH: Yeah. Because otherwise it's just like AI is talking to AI.
KAYLA: Because like…
SARAH: Maybe they'll fall in love.
KAYLA: Maybe they'll fall in love, because I don't… Like, I can see the value of using like a ChatGPT and we do this sometimes at work actually just to like, um, brainstorm things. Like if we're writing an article, we'll start by going to ChatGPT and asking it about it because it just synthesizes all the blogs we would have to go out and read.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And then we see what it says and we then write our own from there. We don't take its words. We just use it as like a brainstormer or a research tool. And that I think is actually very helpful because like you said, it's just mashed up internet.
SARAH: Yeah.
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: Um, so I guess if you were doing that just to like get ideas or brainstorm and then you change it, it's like, okay. But then again, also what's going to happen when you get in person, you go to the Chili's with this bitch.
SARAH: Not the Chili’s
KAYLA: And she's like, what's your favorite food? And you're like, hold on, I got a text. I got a text someone.
SARAH: Or they're like, you said that your favorite food was the bloomin' onion. Why are we at Chili's?
KAYLA: At Chili's
SARAH: Why aren’t we at Outback?
KAYLA: At Outback getting the margarita flight that comes on boomerang. Have you seen it? It's wild.
SARAH: Wow. Outback also has, or at least at one point they had the, the drink, the shark attack drinks.
KAYLA: Yes, they did have that. They also have a really good cheesesteak.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: I'm getting hungry.
SARAH: I have a bagel. Do you want it? It's COVID-y.
KAYLA: I have a sandwich I could eat while I'm talking, I'm driving the podcast right now. You know?
SARAH: Vroom, vroom
KAYLA: Here's one that I think is even more wild. The next way you could use it is for building emotional intelligence.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: So, it says few people want to hear it, but flirting and dating are actual skills that require actual practice, which I think is true.
SARAH: Yeah, that's true.
KAYLA: Um, working with chat box or AI powered digital coaches like those on the free keeper.ai.
SARAH: Wait, so it's saying that you should practice flirting with AI?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm. Um, I'll go… I'll look at that in a second, but this dating expert, Michelle says, um, that you should ask ChatGPT give me 10 examples of expressing emotional intimacy when you are first starting to date someone new and see if it helps you feel closer to a date. Could you look that up for me? Wait, do you have ChatGPT?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: Do you have to like log in? Never mind. I wanted to see what it would say.
SARAH: I don't like it.
KAYLA: That's fair. What? It won't let me go to keeper.ai.
SARAH: What's the point?
KAYLA: I must go in. Can you try looking it up? It won't let me.
SARAH: Keeper. I barely know her.
KAYLA: I barely know her.
SARAH: Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, it's extremely binary. It says women start here and men start here.
KAYLA: Gross
SARAH: Oh, it's also extremely hetero. It's only hetero. I don't want to give it my information.
KAYLA: Well…
SARAH: That's my name. My name is Barbara. I need a last name. My name is Barbara Marbra.
KAYLA: I love that
SARAH: And my email address is… should I just give them the soundsfakepod email?
KAYLA: I guess, I'll just unsubscribe.
SARAH: Where do I live? I live in my mom's house. I live…
KAYLA: You live in a city and… you live in a country and so do I.
SARAH: I live in Beverly Hills, dude. That's where I want to be. Beverly Hills. When was I born? I was born on the January the 2, 1993.
KAYLA: Okay, I did ask the AI on Snapchat about emotional intimacy because you don't have to make a new account for that.
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Would you like to hear what this weird blue man…
SARAH: How tall are you? I'm 5'8".
KAYLA: I think… have you? Okay, I've never used the AI on Snapchat…
SARAH: Your ethnicity?
KAYLA: Hush. I've never used the AI on Snapchat, but it's like this little blue man…
SARAH: Yeah, it’s scary
KAYLA: And I think it's supposed to look like the robot emoji.
SARAH: Scary.
KAYLA: But it doesn't. Anyway, can I tell you the answer while you're doing that?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Here are some examples of expressing emotional intimacy when you first start dating someone new. One, opening up about your dreams and aspirations.
SARAH: I aspire to not have to use AI.
KAYLA: Fair. Number two, sharing personal stories and experiences from your past. That's just talking. That's just talking to someone. Asking deep and meaningful questions to get to know each other better. That's unhelpful. If I don't have emotional intimacy, clearly, I don't know what deep and meaningful questions are. So that's silly. Being vulnerable and sharing your fears and insecurities. Expressing gratitude and appreciation for the little things they do. Listening actively and showing genuine interest in their thoughts and feelings. Offering support and being there for them during difficult times. Sharing your values and discussing what matters most to you. Creating shared experiences and making memories together. Expressing your affection through words, gestures, and acts of kindness. These are just steps to being a nice person and having a nice conversation.
SARAH: This is wild, okay? It's has asked for my ethnicity.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: And I said I'm white or Caucasian. So, it's only hetero. You can only be man-seeking woman or woman-seeking man.
KAYLA: Yes, interesting
SARAH: However, it lists every single ethnicity on the planet.
KAYLA: That’s nice
SARAH: I'm scrolling as fast as I can. I'm still in the Bs. I'm still in the Bs.
KAYLA: At least they did something nice.
SARAH: Absolutely wild.
KAYLA: I just feel like if you need to be asking ChatGPT about emotional intimacy and these are the answers it's giving you, then you're probably not ready to date people. If you find this information helpful, if you're like, oh, I never thought about that before. Listening actively. If that's a new idea to you, you should stop dating.
SARAH: It's asking me for photos now. I don't want to give them photos.
KAYLA: Okay. You don't have to continue. It seems like you're really having…
SARAH: Barbara Marbra is never going to find love. Heterosexual love.
KAYLA: Heterosexual love. Sorry, Barbara Marbra.
SARAH: Don't pay anything until we get you married.
KAYLA: Sorry? That's what it says?
SARAH: Yeah. We test for chemistry, psychometric testing and deep questioning to ensure compatibility because forever is our goal.
KAYLA: This also does say and the last option for how to use AI to date is to help with matchmaking. There's this app called Iris Dating and it uses patterns and data to match you with people, but they're saying, I think the person who founded this app who has a PhD and used it just to do this awful thing said, a matchmaker utilizes dating preferences you articulate, but humans are especially bad at describing the type of person they're attracted to. It uses patterns and data so it may actually understand what you're looking for better than you do.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Which on one hand I get if it's similar to a Spotify thing where it looks at the music you're listening to and it's like, here's the genres you like, here's other songs you like. I can see the logic of you swiped yes on these people. These people we're giving you now are similar. We think you'll like them. The logic is there for sure, but when you start giving it to human people and then also with the biases we were talking about at the beginning, it's like these aren't promises. If they were just being straight up and they were like, we're just going to do it based on your preferences and they were just very upfront about here's how it's working, then I would be like, okay, sure. People could use it to help them figure out what they want, I guess, if that's what they want.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But when then you're like, we're going to get you married and do psychometric testing and we're going to blah, blah, blah. It's like, I don't know that you can say that actually.
SARAH: It's love at first match driven by AI and relationship science guided by human care heart. It says for women, the man you'll keep forever. We make men tell us what they want in a committed partner.
KAYLA: Make men
SARAH: So, we only match you with a man who is serious about you.
KAYLA: Okay, this is also for a very particular kind of person.
SARAH: And then it says for men, the woman you've been looking for. Tell us everything that matters to you. We'll introduce you to someone who meets all the details. Only pay for success. Why are we only talking about paying with men? This is so hetero.
KAYLA: That's also… it's so interesting to me that for women they're like, clearly your main concern is commitment.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And for men, they're like, clearly your main concern is checking boxes off of your checklist.
SARAH: It’s checking boxes. And you're the one who's going to pay for it, obviously because you’re a man
KAYLA: That’s so interesting. I wouldn't be surprised. It's like a club that's like free entry for women just to like get men to go to the club.
SARAH: Start on the fifth date. Save hundreds of hours of swiping and first dates that go nowhere. Only receive matches that are likely to lead to love.
KAYLA: That makes me really sad to hear, like I understand we've been moving in this direction for a long time, but to hear it whittled down to like spend less time, like making it an efficiency thing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It's like, guys, we don't have to Americanize and be efficient and do capitalism everywhere, you know?
SARAH: In two years since our launch, about one in six first dates from Keeper have led to marriage engagement.
KAYLA: No way. No way.
SARAH: Oh, they have a plan called marriage bounty.
KAYLA: Bounty?
SARAH: Do I have to pay upfront for the marriage bounty? No. On the marriage bounty plan, you don't have to put any money down upfront. So, payment isn't done until marriage. We do not refund for annulments or divorce.
KAYLA: That's hilarious. Wait, didn't Angela… I'm pretty sure Angela Chen recently wrote an article. Yes. Angela Chen recently wrote an article about dating bounties. It was in the New York Times.
SARAH: Interesting
KAYLA: Two men, so it's called Wanted True Love Reward $100,000. Two men posted dating bounties on the internet worth thousands as an incentive for people to help them find love. So, they like put up money and they were like, if you can introduce me to my future lifelong partner, I will give you this money. So, it's basically the same thing. That's so wild.
SARAH: Tools, AI dating coach. Oh, oh yeah. This is just an AI dating coach. Should we talk to it?
KAYLA: Yes. What is it?
[00:30:00]
SARAH: It's on keeper.ai.
KAYLA: Oh yes. Let's see. That's what I was looking for. This whole ding dang time.
SARAH: A whole ding dang time. How are things going with your dating life?
KAYLA: Me?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Well, I guess we're being Barbara, right? So, what do we think is going on?
SARAH: We’re being Barbara Marbra
KAYLA: What's going on with Barbara do you think? What's her…
SARAH: Barbara has been on a lot of first dates and they've just gone badly.
KAYLA: Yeah. She keeps going to Chili's and they keep being like, where's the bloomin' onion? And she's like, you're an idiot.
SARAH: Mm hmm. Okay. Thinking, thinking
KAYLA: Meaning a chip.
SARAH: Also, it says here to help you find a partner and create a happy, healthy family. So, oh wow. Here's a… Look. Hearing about your streak of bad first dates, it's clear that something in the equation needs tweaking. It's not just about the people you're meeting. It's also about how you're meeting them and what you're bringing to the table. Basically, this AI is saying it's your fault. Reflecting on each date to understand what went wrong and what you learned about yourself can be a game changer. It's not about dwelling on the past, but about refining your approach for the future. Each date, good or bad, teaches you something valuable about what you're looking for and how you present yourself. Remember, the goal isn't just to meet someone, it's to meet the right someone. And sometimes that requires going through experiences that aren't ideal, but are incredibly informative. What do you think are some common factors contributing to these bad first dates?
KAYLA: Okay. First of all, I guess I don't necessarily think any of that is like bad advice. Like I think if you're having a lot of bad first dates, then yeah, maybe look for a common denominator. I guess like the way it's assuming that you're looking for like a long-term partnership. Like there's just so many…
SARAH: That seems to be like what this platform is for.
KAYLA: Yeah. I guess it is called Keeper.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So, I guess that's fair. I guess maybe there's other coaches for when you're just trying to fuck around. It's just like, that's wild to me. Anyway, so what did they ask?
SARAH: What do you think are some common factors contributing to these bad first dates?
KAYLA: Um, I'm always sweaty.
SARAH: I'm always sweaty.
KAYLA: Is it thinking about that real hard?
SARAH: It's thinking, yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's fair.
SARAH: Feeling sweaty on dates, especially if it's a consistent issue, can indeed be distressing. It might be impacting your confidence levels. It's essential to approach this with, oh my God, this is so long. It has scrolled past where I'm reading. It's essential to approach this with a practical mindset. First, consider the physiological aspects. Successive sweating can be natural to nervousness or anxiety, which is common in dating scenarios. It's your body's way of reacting to what it perceives as a high stakes situation. Understanding this can be the first step in managing it. Now let's tackle this head on. Preparation is key. Ensure you're dressed in breathable fabrics to help regulate your body temperature. Also consider using clinical strength, antiperspirants, or even talking to a dermatologist if you feel the situation warrants it. These are practical steps you can take to mitigate the issue physically. On the psychological front, it's about managing your nerves. Remember a date is not an audition. It's an opportunity to meet someone and see if you enjoy each other's company. Shifting your mindset from trying to impress to simply engaging and being present can alleviate some of the pressure you're putting on yourself. This pressure can be contributing to your nervous sweating. Reflecting on your experiences, have you noticed any patterns or triggers that might be causing you to feel sweaty during your dates? Identifying these can be crucial in developing strategies to manage or even overcome this challenge.
KAYLA: That's so thorough. Like that's so much information about sweating. I did not expect… I thought it was just going to be like, huh?
SARAH: I mean, it's Keeper.ai
KAYLA: I guess. I guess they're really going for it.
SARAH: Do we want to continue to engage?
KAYLA: Yeah. I have a lot of questions.
SARAH: Okay. Have you noticed any patterns or triggers that might be causing you to feel sweaty during your dates?
KAYLA: I live in Florida. I always order the fajitas and the hot sizzle pan mix. Remember that one time we were at a Mexican restaurant and the fajitas like blew up the entire restaurant.
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: Really it smelled like the entire restaurant was burning down, there was like smoke coming…
SARAH: Like no one could breathe.
KAYLA: No. The poor person that ordered the fajitas was just like hacking up a lung, coughing. It was wild.
SARAH: The hot sizzle is too much for me.
KAYLA: I really hope it has as thorough of an answer for this as the sweating.
SARAH: It's quite insightful that you've been…
KAYLA: Thank you so much I am insightful.
SARAH: It's quite insightful that you pinpoint… Oh, it's not going to let me go any further after this because… Without logging in. Okay. But I'll read you what it told me.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: It's quite insightful that you've pinpointed the fajitas and their sizzling effect as a potential stressor during your dates. This observation is a step in the right direction. The heat and the spectacle of a sizzling dish can indeed amplify your nerves.
KAYLA: Wait. Why do they know what a fajita is?
SARAH: Can indeed amplify your nerves contributing to the discomfort you're experiencing. It's akin to adding fuel to a fire, so to speak, in an already high-pressure situation. Choosing a different dish could be as simple an effective strategy to mitigate this issue. Opting for something less dramatic and more comfortable might not only help… This is correct. My brain just stopped. Might not only help in reducing your physical discomfort, but could also ease the psychological pressure, allowing you to focus more on the interaction with your date rather than the theatrics on your plate. That fucking rhymed. Experimenting with your culinary choices can also be a great conversation starter. Showing your date that you're open to new experiences and not afraid to step out of your comfort zone. It's about creating a pleasant dining experience for both you and your date, where the focus is on the connection rather than the distraction of your meal. Have you considered trying a different dish that doesn't involve the sizzling effect to see if this helps with your dining experiences? Unfortunately, we can't answer again.
KAYLA: See, I wish it could go further so I could tell it that I'm on a dietary restriction where I can only eat fajitas.
SARAH: I really wanted to just say no. No, I have not considered this.
KAYLA: I mean, listen. Keeper AI is extremely thorough.
SARAH: It’s very thorough
KAYLA: Do I think it's going to give people information that is actually helpful? Probably not.
SARAH: To be fair, we didn't really ask it genuine questions.
KAYLA: We didn't. However, just looking at the way it was answering questions, I feel like it's just giving very general, broad advice.
SARAH: It's also just giving you a lot of words.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: It's just throwing so much at you.
KAYLA: It's meeting the word count. I don't think any of that advice is wrong. Yes, if you get fajitas on every date, maybe let's not. But I feel like most of the time when people are seeking out dating advice, they want it for their particular situation and issues.
SARAH: And the person you're seeking advice from needs to have more context.
KAYLA: Right. Usually, you'd go to a friend, and they would know your whole history.
SARAH: Or if you go to an actual dating coach, they would ask you everything.
KAYLA: Like a therapist or… Yeah, something like that where you could actually give it your whole history, and they would be able to take that in.
SARAH: Whereas what Keeper AI's dating and relationship coach maybe hasn't considered is that I have eat fajitas for my dietary restrictions
KAYLA: For my dietary restrictions
SARAH: And also, that I have an undiagnosed sweating disorder.
KAYLA: Right. Exactly.
SARAH: And it's not thinking of that because it doesn't know my history.
KAYLA: It doesn't. And it's also like… Clearly these answers are all coming from self-help articles or like a 16-magazine what to do when fajitas article.
SARAH: What to do when fajitas article.
KAYLA: So, I feel like if you had a specific concern, you could just Google it and not pay for this.
SARAH: Yeah. You could just say, hey, why are my fajitas making me sweaty? I'm sure someone has asked that on Quora before.
KAYLA: I have to imagine. I don't know. In conclusion, I think small AI things like the bumble picture stuff or like that kind of like, what is it called? Like when it studies user preferences, like Netflix does or Spotify does. That kind of thing, I think it could be helpful. When you get into it writing things for you, that's when it is, first of all plagiarism because those were someone's ideas first before the AI ate it. Also, I just don't see how that's going to get people to the end result they want. Yes, you will get the instant gratification of the swipe, right? But like you said, someone has to continually keep swiping right on you. They have to keep texting you up. They have to agree to go out with you. They have to agree to go home with you, whatever. Yes, you might feel the instant like, oh yeah, people are liking my profile. Maybe you get that small boost of confidence. If that's all you want, then okay.
SARAH: Sure
KAYLA: But if you're actually looking to get people to like you in person, I just don't see how that's helpful.
SARAH: Yeah. And like if you're using AI as like, just to give you a quantity of ideas as a jumping off point, like okay, sure. But if you're using AI to write your shit for you, then no. In conclusion, if you really want to use AI that bad for dating, just have the AIs date each other.
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Exactly. And I also, one last thing, for real in conclusion this time, clearly a lot of the AI is very heteronormative.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And I guess it was just one example, but I have to assume a lot of them are that way because that's probably the easiest model to teach an AI on is just like a straight relationship.
SARAH: And it's probably the vast majority of all of the stuff that AIs are chomping on online to regurgitate.
KAYLA: Absolutely. So, like, as an aspec person, like I understand dating as an aspec is very hard. So, people might reach for a resource like this to be like, it could be helpful because it is really hard. And sometimes you need extra resources to date as an aspec person. I don't think I would suggest this.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I think there's a lot, like I know Ace Dad has done some like online classes basically, or like webinars that you can like sign up for. And they talk about like dating as an ace or they have a new book coming out. Did you see that?
SARAH: No, I don't see anything.
KAYLA: Yeah, you don't see anything, but they released the cover and title for their next book that's coming out. And it's all about dating as an aspec person.
SARAH: Ooh, that's exciting.
KAYLA: The cover is really cute. It looks like a little Ace of Hearts card.
SARAH: Maybe the next time people ask us about that, we can say, boy, do I have a book for you?
KAYLA: Do I have a book for you? True, because that's the book they tried to get us to write. And we said, we're not the right people for that.
SARAH: No
KAYLA: But Cody is because they have experience with doing that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Anyway, be careful. Final, final, in conclusion, just be careful and smart. You know?
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: That's it.
SARAH: Fight the AI.
KAYLA: Fight the AI. Eat the AI.
SARAH: Delicious. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom.
KAYLA: Exactly.
SARAH: Kayla, what's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: I think we should ask; would you use an AI to help you date?
SARAH: Or if you don't date, like to help you find like friendships?
KAYLA: A friend. Yeah, that's a good point.
SARAH: So, it's inclusive.
KAYLA: Inclusive. Thank you. That's it.
SARAH: Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that I think the flight from California to Boston is too long. I think it's silly that I could get to Europe faster than I can get to California. I think that's upsetting to me.
SARAH: Well, yeah, you can, yeah
KAYLA: It's like at least equivalent. Like when I did Europe…
SARAH: The California to Boston.
KAYLA: Yes. Is longer than the Boston to California.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because of the air.
SARAH: Air. Yes. Anyway, I think it's too long. That's my beef. My juice is that I am in Vermont with all of the other white people in America. Because my housemates wanted to ski. So now I'm not skiing, I'm podcasting, but they're skiing and I get to hang out in a very nice cabin. And do whatever I want.
SARAH: Great.
KAYLA: Yep.
SARAH: My beef is… I have a lot of beefs right now, so
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I have COVID. That's my beef.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: My juice is I think my bed is comfy.
KAYLA: That's good.
SARAH: I think that's a juice.
KAYLA: That is a very lovely juice.
SARAH: My other juice is that the other day, my roommate went and picked up Chipotle.
KAYLA: Oh, what a dream.
SARAH: And I got to eat it.
KAYLA: My other beef is that my nearest Chipotle closed.
SARAH: Oh, no
KAYLA: And now I can't walk to it anymore.
SARAH: My other beef is that I don't live with bogey anymore or my roommate.
KAYLA: There's priorities here clearly.
SARAH: Well, I can't text bogey. You know?
KAYLA: That is that is very true.
SARAH: I have texted my roommate during this podcast.
KAYLA: Well, then…
SARAH: She told me I was very brave for moving the fans.
KAYLA: You are very brave.
SARAH: Okay, yeah, cool. You can tell us about your beef or your juice or your both or your gravy on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon patreon.com/soundsfakepod. My other juice is Backsloven. It makes my mouth taste a little weird.
KAYLA: I don't know what that is.
SARAH: It's the medication to make the COVID go away.
KAYLA: Last time I had COVID I asked for that and they told me no.
SARAH: Okay, well, it's a different time now. And it was even free with my insurance, which I thought was, what? Kayla's just sassily eating chips. She has put her microphone down.
KAYLA: The microphone is over there. I want to… my sandwich has been staring at me, I can smell it.
SARAH: I have a bagel.
KAYLA: You've been eating it, so. I was driving
SARAH: Very slowly.
KAYLA: Yeah, but I… listen, it's a whole thing. I'm bed-casting from a king size bed, which… I want a king size bed so bad. This is all going to sound terrible. But I want a king size bed so bad. I didn't even touch Dean last night. We were so far apart. I didn't even brush his arm once.
SARAH: Okay, if you want to give us money on Patreon so Kayla can afford a king size bed, you can do so patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Our $5 patrons who we're promoting this week are Alex Istar, AliceIsInSpace, Amanda Kyker, Ashley W and we have a new one, it's Bronwynn Herron, who I believe they said that they are South African, which is fun.
KAYLA: And we love that.
SARAH: Oh, no, that's wrong. Not what I said, just I accidentally made the text orange. And that was wrong. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Celina Dobson, who would like to promote the Critical Role Foundation, David Harris, who would like to promote the Cradle book series by Will Wight, Derick & Carissa, who would like to promote supporting each other through the transitions we face, including when we get COVID. Elle Bitter, who would like to promote normalizing the use of tone indicators /srs and my aunt Jeannie, who would like to promote Christopher's Haven. Our other $10 patrons are Kayla’s dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Parker, Purple Hayes, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Val, Alyson, Ani, Arcnes, and Benjamin Ybarra. Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum, who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Dia Chappell, who would like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, Hector Murillo, who would like to promote Friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, Nathaniel White, who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com, and Schnell, who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly and my mom, who would like to promote the fact that I think I got COVID when I was with my parents and I did not give it to them.
KAYLA: Well, that's lovely of you.
SARAH: But I have given it to at least one other person.
KAYLA: Who'd you give it to?
SARAH: Anyway, don't COVID. They would like to promote wearing masks. Still, we did an event on Saturday and afterwards I was like, damn, I probably should have worn a mask for that. And I don't know… And I don't know that that's where I got COVID, but…
KAYLA: But you don't know it's not.
SARAH: But I don't know it's not. Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
SARAH: Get cow-sized masks for them.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]