Ep 30: Asexual Representation
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with (mumbles) – woo hoo.
KAYLA: Uh uh.
SARAH: (laughs) talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Ace representation.
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Have we done that as our Sounds Fake before?
KAYLA: I don’t know.
SARAH: It’s possible.
KAYLA: We’re just keeping it.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: I might leave it.
KAYLA: I think we should.
SARAH: Hi, welcome.
KAYLA: You should even keep the “Did we make that our Sounds Fake before?”.
SARAH: I was going to.
KAYLA: Oh, okay.
SARAH: Guys, you're getting some candid Kayla and Sarah this week. Full disclosure, this episode was supposed to go up on Sunday, it's currently Tuesday.
KAYLA: I didn't even tweet that we were late, that's how shit my life has been this week. I was like, they'll live.
SARAH: If we're lucky, it'll be up by Wednesday.
KAYLA: Tomorrow is Wednesday.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I don't even know who I am anymore.
SARAH: Okay, part of the reason though, that we're such disasters – Also, we had to record on my phone again, I'm really sorry. I'm going have to figure out what's wrong with my computer, but not right now.
KAYLA: Get Sarah and Kayla new computers, 2k18.
SARAH: It's 11 o'clock at night, and I'm not doing that shit.
KAYLA: I want to die.
SARAH: But this week, so we're talking about ace representation, which we've maybe talked about before? I don't know.
KAYLA: Who cares? At this point, who cares?
SARAH: But part of the reason, and also part of the reason why we’re dead people is because –
KAYLA: This is the only reason I'm – that’s not true, keep going.
SARAH: For me, it's part of the reason. This weekend is a thing. Kayla, what's the thing?
KAYLA: So, here's the tea, spicy tea. Me and Sarah have been in this theater group since our freshman year of college, where we write our own original musicals, and then we like, it's all students that perform and direct it and do everything, and put everything together and get the budget, whatever. So, Sarah wrote the musical for this semester. So, Sarah has been writing this, it's been in her brain for like, two years now. She wrote it, finished it two months ago, I've been directing it for three months, doing an average of 10 hours of rehearsal a week. It's been neat. So, we're in tech week right now, which for you non-theater folk means, the week right before the show.
SARAH: Hell week
KAYLA: The show comes out this weekend on the 30th for wherever you guys are listening. So, it means we have four-hour rehearsals every night. We just got home from a rehearsal half an hour ago, and I also had a seven-hour rehearsal on Saturday and then six hours of rehearsals on Sunday, because I hate myself.
SARAH: We're not telling you this because we expect you to come, because you probably can't.
KAYLA: But here's the thing, we're going to livestream it on Saturday.
SARAH: Oh, right. I forgot about that.
KAYLA: So, we're going to livestream it on Saturday and, also one day there'll be an edited YouTube video of it. Shitty quality, but it'll be there.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So, I'll put in the link, the description of this episode, our Facebook page of our theater group and you can follow it and shit. And also, I'll be retweeting stuff about it from our Twitter so you can see it. But you guys can watch a livestream of it.
SARAH: That'd be dope.
KAYLA: Anyway, why this is relevant to you is because the main character is ace, and the whole story is – You can – You wrote it. Here’s the tea.
SARAH: Yeah, so I'll give you a quick spoiler-free rundown of the show. So, this all came about because there are several ace people in this theater group, a disproportionately high number.
KAYLA: There's a disproportionately high number of queer people in this theater group.
SARAH: I mean, it is a theater group.
KAYLA: I know but it's wild. I did a count today and only 5 people of our 30-person cast were straight. And 2 of us were like, oh, I'm straight but I'm also on the ace spectrum.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: There were, I think 6 ace people in our 30-person cast. That's not proportionate at all, like where did they come from, where did they go?
SARAH: Where did they come from, Cotton-Eyed Joe? So, basically, it was brought up that there's nothing with ace people in it, especially not as the lead. And so, the concept is – Okay, for those of you who are familiar with the movie Enchanted, this was kind of what I kept thinking of when I was writing it. So, in Enchanted, and princess Disney stuff in general, people just burst out into song, into duets specifically, like love duets and shit. And they just know them.
KAYLA: Know the words, and know the dance.
SARAH: And so I was just like, I mean, but ace people, they probably wouldn't know the words, because if it's a romantic duet, why would they know the words?
KAYLA: Nah.
SARAH: And so, basically, that's sort of the premise of this. It's a period piece – What's the era called?
KAYLA: Regency era, when Jane Austen – Like Pride and Prejudice times.
SARAH: And it's about this girl who can't really duet romantically with anybody –
KAYLA: Just doesn’t come out.
SARAH: And it's a struggle. Also, it was a little complicated to – Not complicated to write, but the words aromantic and asexual did not exist at the time that this is set in.
KAYLA: So we had to create the origins of the words and we were like, oh my God, I can't believe this character invented asexuality, because in the story she kind of does.
SARAH: I just found a bunch of dirt in the side of my computer.
KAYLA: Well, that might be the problem with it.
SARAH: No, because that's the plug.
KAYLA: Anyway.
SARAH: Sorry.
KAYLA: Cool.
SARAH: We have it together.
KAYLA: I’m alive. But then her best friend comes back from college, university as they say, and proposes to her because their other friend told them they should. And she's like, you know the Vine that she sees the rat and she's like (retches) – that's the noise I always make at our actress that plays the lead role. It's just (retches) – because that's her reaction to everything in the show.
SARAH: But basically, this is a show that was never intended as being about me or my life. But it accidentally became that.
KAYLA: It's literally based on something that's happened. Sarah wasn't supposed to –
SARAH: It's not based on it, it just accidentally resembles it in some ways. Not in all ways.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Kayla.
KAYLA: I mean –
SARAH: Listen –
KAYLA: No comment.
SARAH: If you are a person who knows this event, I'm sorry. Anyway, we're not just trying to self-promo here because – I mean, we are, but –
KAYLA: Who are you fucking kidding?
SARAH: But also, representation is a thing that needs to happen.
KAYLA: Because a lot of our past shows with NERDS, the name of our group, we do a lot of representation of gay couples and everything, and that's kind of our schtick. And we were like, hey, a good proportion of us are ace and like, can't even relate to that. And so – there’s hair all over my sock.
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: Just start sobbing. So, we were like, hey, to that, because like, I mean that – Who am I?
SARAH: (laughs) Just some quality content ladies and gentlemen.
KAYLA: Because it's like, I think this show is entertaining personally. It's mostly sad, kind of.
SARAH: It's a bummer.
KAYLA: Yeah, I always say it's a bummer. It has some funny moments too and it's a musical, so it's a good time. But also, as you watch it, if you've never heard of asexuality before, it goes through the process of fully explaining what it is. So, it's also a learning opportunity for people that have no idea what that means.
SARAH: Because for me, some of it seems so obvious, like, did I really need to explain this in the dialogue? But then I'm like, I probably did.
KAYLA: Yeah, it’s funny because there's a certain scene where she's explaining to her friend basically how she feels. So, it's basically her explaining what asexuality is.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And first of all, I've heard the scene a thousand times and I want to stab myself in the eye. I know every word to this goddamn musical by now. And yeah, sometimes they're doing it and I'm like, gross, this is the most exposition ever. And then I'm like, wait –
SARAH: It's necessary girl, for a lot of the audience, it's going to be extremely necessary.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Especially for the people who may be family members of people in the show who are coming, and have never heard of asexuality before.
KAYLA: Did I tell you the kid that I'm dating, I had told him what Bloom was about and I mentioned asexuality and he was like; yeah, well, whatever. And he didn't ask about it. So, it was like, oh, okay. Then I asked him, did you know what it was? And he had, he had already known what it was. And I was like, wow. And he was like, I had to look up what demisexuality was. But like, side note, tangent. He didn't even bring up I was demi until a month in.
SARAH: He didn't bring it up?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Oh, but you had it on your Tinder bio.
KAYLA: Yeah and so he, I guess, Googled it, but he didn't even –
SARAH: Hmm, that's fun.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Alright.
KAYLA: Anyway.
SARAH: Yeah, my grandparents are coming, and like –
KAYLA: Oof. Do they know?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Tight. Oh, that's what they asked your mom, if you were gay the other time.
SARAH: Oh, yeah. No, they asked my mom if –
KAYLA: No, that was someone else.
SARAH: That was my aunt, she's coming too. My aunt asked my mom if I was gay, because she was confused.
(10:00)
KAYLA: Also, I mean, your sister's gay.
SARAH: Yeah, and also, since my family has a shitload of queer people –
KAYLA: The Costello Queers.
SARAH: We always take a picture of all of the non-straight people in my family, and she was confused, because I was in the most recent photo. My mom sort of tried to explain it to her but she didn't go into too much detail, because she wasn't sure how much I wanted them to know. And I was like, I don't really care. It's just that like –
KAYLA: I don't want to do it.
SARAH: I don't want to do it. So, that'll be interesting. Because my mom asked, she was like, do you want us to be at that show too? And I was like, I don't know. Also, the next day is Easter so I’ll be seeing all of them again.
KAYLA: Nice. My grandma and my aunt are coming I think, because they come to everything. They're generally quite accepting of everything, they're like, whatever, the gays. And I'm like, cool Grandma. And my parents know, because I've talked to my parents about you before and everything. I think my parents knew before your parents knew.
SARAH: I think they did.
KAYLA: I came out to you, for you, to my parents because I was just talking to them. And I was like, don't say anything, her parents don't know. And they were like alright, whatever, I don't give a shit. And it's like cool, thanks Mom.
SARAH: Amazing. I think it'll be interesting to see who does end up coming because I mean, the whole Quidditch team is coming. Which is going be interesting, because I know some of them know.
KAYLA: Yeah, but I don't know if –
SARAH: But not everyone knows, although I wasn't sure – Because we have girls’ nights or whatever, we talk about shit and it's never explicitly come up –
KAYLA: Like, hey, I'm ace.
SARAH: Right, but then we were driving back from a tournament the other day, and we were doing invasive questions of each other. You know, a good time. And we're talking about our love lives and I was like, yeah none at all. And I was like, I wasn't sure the extent to which they knew, but then one of the people was like yeah, when did you know you were ace? And I was like, oh, so you know?
KAYLA: So, we know.
SARAH: But yeah, it'll be interesting. I think what will be most interesting, and perhaps most nerve-wracking is after the show, what people say to me specifically.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because it's not just like, oh, I was involved with this show. This is my baby.
KAYLA: This is your show. And it's different for me too because obviously, I'm directing it, and you wrote it and I was the creative vision of the movement on stage and everything. But at the end of the day, it's your brainchild.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It’s not like – I mean, I helped you write it in some ways but –
SARAH: And it's very personal to me as a human.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's a very personal story.
SARAH: And especially for those people who will be seeing the show, who might recognize that this is something that sort of happened to me once.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like, it didn't happen to me, but there are parallels to things that have happened to me.
KAYLA: And I think it's also going to be interesting because there's a lot of very emotional parts where the main character is very – She's just realizing her sexuality so it's a hard time for her. And I wonder – Because you don't openly show your emotions a lot, so I'm wondering if people, especially people that are closest to us, how they'll react to seeing kind of a display of your emotions, just through another person. Because I can imagine that some of the emotions expressed in the show are ones that you’ve had, that you just didn't openly present.
SARAH: Yeah, and I think some of the scenes as I've written them have felt really self-serving because this show, I mean, it's a bummer. But at the end of the day, it doesn't end on a horribly sad note.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's not a happy note necessarily. But it's –
KAYLA: It’s a hope, it's hopeful.
SARAH: Yeah, but there's a scene towards the end where the main character's parents are talking to each other, and writing that scene felt really weird to me. Because it was necessary for character arc wise, it was necessary for this scene to happen. But writing it, having her parents talk about their child's sexuality felt really strange. Because these parents aren't my parents, but this character is kind of me.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so, it's like, there's that weird –
KAYLA: Yeah, I'll be interested to see if your parents mention or your mom, I guess, will mention anything about -
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: I feel like Jack would just be like, whatever.
SARAH: Yeah, it'll definitely be interesting because there are some characters, mostly the main character that resembles me a lot, but the other characters are not necessarily based off of real people. So, it'll be interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And it's not like the main character was meant to be based off of me,
KAYLA: No, but t's also interesting the main character has a best friend, but that's not me.
SARAH: No, yeah.
KAYLA: I think that I'm the best friend's brother.
SARAH: (sings) My best friend's brother is the one for me. (laughs) Anyway.
KAYLA: Okay. Cool, Sarah.
SARAH: Yeah, because also in the show, there's some representation of other invisible sexualities, as they say.
KAYLA: They do say that.
SARAH: Yeah, so that's a thing.
KAYLA: There she is.
SARAH: Now, we've told you. Kayla has kept wanting to tell you about this. And I was like, guys, Kayla. Wait –
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: All of you Kaylas.
SARAH: All of you Kaylas, we're not doing this until the week of, because it's weird.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: I don't want to just be like –
KAYLA: This thing has been consuming my life for the past three months so it's like, it's all I talk about to anyone.
SARAH: That's also the really weird thing about being a writer is that, it consumes your life for a long time.
KAYLA: And you just sent it away.
SARAH: And then it's just gone and then, it's consuming everyone else's lives but not yours.
KAYLA: Does it feel weird?
SARAH: It's a little weird. Because today at rehearsal was the first time I saw the whole thing through, and the first time that I saw some of the scenes, and the first time that I heard some of the songs.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, it was weird.
KAYLA: Did I fuck it up?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: I didn't do a good job?
SARAH: No, it was good.
KAYLA: Sarah doesn’t like telling me nice things.
SARAH: No, I don't.
KAYLA: Cool, thanks, Sarah. Glad I did three months of work.
SARAH: What are emotions?
KAYLA: What are those? Oh, my God. We made a – None of this is related, but you care about this. We made a Vine thread of each character with a Vine. And listen, once you guys watch the live stream, because I know you’re all going to watch it
SARAH: We expect it.
KAYLA: Because I know you're all going to.
SARAH: Oh, my God.
KAYLA: But then you can look back at this Vine compilation – and y'all, it's funny. That’s all.
SARAH: Anyway, this episode is also supposed to be about representation.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's important.
KAYLA: We keep meaning to – I told you a while ago we need to watch Bojack Horseman together and do an episode about it.
SARAH: We need to do a lot, Kayla.
KAYLA: Because I haven't watched any of Bojack Horseman.
SARAH: Neither have I.
KAYLA: For reference, there's a canon ace character on it.
SARAH: I still haven't read that book that I've owned for more than a year.
KAYLA: Tight. And I was watching, I came in – I went to someone's house and they were in the middle of watching an episode, and I saw the end of it. And it was the one where he came out as ace and I was like, holy shit, this is wild. And everyone else was like, shut up Kayla, we are watching TV but I was like, whoa. And then I saw online that it was actually this really big thing and I was like, wow.
Someone does, fuck, I think it's called the Bright Cut podcast; I haven't gotten a chance to listen to it, but it’s a fiction series podcast –
SARAH: Someone emailed us about that, right?
KAYLA: Yeah, and I guess it has a canon ace character on it too.
SARAH: That's dope.
KAYLA: But I haven't, because I suck, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. I mean, I feel that to a lot of people who are listening to our podcast, they're going understand how important representation is. But there are so many people out there who are just, they don't get it. They don't understand why it's important.
KAYLA: I have this this person that I've debated with a couple times about fanfiction, and intellectual property in general. And they were like; it's stupid, fans shouldn't change shit. And I made the point of, okay, well on a lot of TV shows and books or whatever, there's not a lot of representation of other sexualities. That's why a lot of the reason people make fanfiction, and a lot of the reason that a lot of fanfiction is so gay and so pornish is because people are just trying to put themselves into it. And they were all like; well, I don't see why they need to do that, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, of course you don't, you're a straight white male, of course you don't understand.
SARAH: Yeah, you're represented everywhere.
KAYLA: Literally, fanfiction – The birth of fanfiction started with the Star Trek fandom in fanzines before the internet. Because people wanted more powerful women, and wanted more sexualities in Star Trek and that’s the, you know.
SARAH: It's so easy if you're a white person, well, if you're a straight white person, especially if you're male, if you're a cis male it's so easy to be like well, why do you need this? But the only reason they think that way is because they have it, they have always had it. And so, it's just very hard to make those people understand – You keep sitting in the weirdest way.
KAYLA: I'm sleepy.
SARAH: Okay, sorry. I always get mad at Kayla, when she says stuff that y'all can't see.
KAYLA: And then this.
SARAH: And then I've just done it. You shouldn’t listen, it’s weird.
KAYLA: Everyone, unsubscribe. Smash that dislike button.
SARAH: It's really hard to explain to people why it's important.
KAYLA: Well, because if you don't see yourself represented even at all, which a lot of ace people just, there's nothing. There's like three canon ace characters ever.
(20:00)
SARAH: There's that one character in Shadowhunters and then Jughead –
KAYLA: Was supposed to be.
SARAH: [He is] in the comics but not in the show.
KAYLA: Not in the show, that's for damn sure. Because it's like, if you don't see yourself represented, then you think of yourself as not a normal person. Because you're like, well, if TV is supposed to represent the norm or what's going on in the world as a whole, and then you're just not there. It's like, well, who the fuck – what?
SARAH: Yeah and I just I feel like a lot of times, there's that argument of like, well not the argument, where people are like, well, I don't care if gay people exist but I don't want it shoved in my face.
KAYLA: it's like, well, straightness is shoved in my face, bitch.
SARAH: Straightness is shoved in everybody's faces. If there's a gay character on the show and you're that appalled, first of all, fuck you. Second of all, don't watch it or something. Like, God.
SARAH: It's just stupid because straightness and the cultural norm are shoved into your face at all times. And because you're – Oh God, my brain is starting to go into TV theory mode.
KAYLA: Oh, no, come back, come back to us girl.
SARAH: I'm in a TV theory class, sorry. But if you, you know, if you're – oh, God.
KAYLA: Uh-oh, oh no.
SARAH: Oops. I mean, there's the norm that is pushed by the people who have power. And so, that gets pushed down through the pipeline.
KAYLA: Sarah just made a gesture like she was pushing it through her body, through her esophagus, out her toes.
SARAH: It was the pipeline; it wasn't my body.
KAYLA: Is your body a pipeline?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Conspiracy theory.
SARAH: But if it goes through the pipeline and becomes the norm elsewhere, even if you're not a part of that dominant group, you'll accept that ideology. And so, even white women or people who aren't white will see this and be like; oh, I guess this is what I should strive to be like, this straight white guy is what I should strive to be like. But that's fucking stupid.
KAYLA: I've also heard the argument of people, because I was talking to someone about how the Harry Potter movies don't have a lot of racial or anything, like diversity or representation. And they were like, well if you look at how many students there were, statistically, it matches the UK average of how many Black students there were. And I was like, okay, but also they're wizards and this isn't realistic anyway, so first of all, fuck you. That’s not true, I’m friends with the person I was talking about. But it's like, it doesn't need to match the statistical average, there's groups of people that don't match the norms. Case in point our theater group. If there was a TV show about our theater group, it would not be statistically relevant
SARAH: Exactly, and I think that's a difficult thing to grapple with in the writer of like, okay, how much of this should I make realistic to the real world, and how much of it doesn't fucking matter? And so, like, on the show Agents of SHIELD there are a shitload of non-white people, and the cast is half and half, men and women.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And there used to be a gay character, but then he is not there anymore.
KAYLA: Did they kill him?
SARAH: No, they didn't kill him but he's on another show now. So, I wish – they need to make Daisy bi, they need to make Fitz bi, they need to make everybody bi.
KAYLA: Fitz bi, really?
SARAH: Yes, Fitz is totally bi. Okay, anyway – a lot of people think Gemma is bi too, everyone is bi on that show.
KAYLA: Cool.
SARAH: But basically, we were at a con this past weekend, we were at WonderCon. And one of the things that they were talking about was the racial diversity on that show.
KAYLA: There are so many Latinas.
SARAH: I mean, it's a white guy, there are three white guys.
KAYLA: (sings) Three white guys, sittin’ in a hot tub –
SARAH: Three white guys, there's one white girl and then there's –
KAYLA: Sarah’s favorite characters on that show are white, she's a racist.
SARAH: My favorite character is Fitz.
KAYLA: He's white.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I can’t believe that.
SARAH: I'm sorry. And then you have two Asian American women –
KAYLA: (whispers) I can’t believe you have done this.
SARAH: A Black guy, a Latina woman. The gay guy was Latino but now he's gone. Last season, there was another Latino character, there are two other Black characters that aren't consistently on, but that are occasionally.
KAYLA: A white guy died recently. That was fun.
SARAH: A white guy is always dying.
KAYLA: Good, good.
SARAH: There are also some Kree who are blue.
KAYLA: They were blue. They sucked though, but not because they were blue.
SARAH: But basically, they were talking about how they wanted a cast that represented the real world. And it's like, statistically, that cast does not represent the United States of America but that's not the point. The point is that there is a bunch of diversity, racially, on that show. Also, the new character who's – Well, there were two other characters who were Black who died. Well, no they didn't. One of them died and was brought back to life. They got left in the future, though.
KAYLA: Bye.
SARAH: But the one character had to be white because he's - spoilers - he's related to some of the other white characters.
KAYLA: Did you see that – Unrelated except for the, "it's a Latino person." Did you see that Gina Rodriguez is going be Carmen Sandiego in a live action movie?
SARAH: That's exciting. Anyway –
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: Guys, we are so sorry.
KAYLA: Here's the thing, I'm not. I'm not sorry
SARAH: I just went on a wild Agents of SHIELD rant that went on too long. Anyway, the point was they were like, we want this to represent the real world. And does that represent the real world? Fuck no.
KAYLA: Nah.
SARAH: But it's still so important, because there are so many people who watch that show who are like, wow, look at these two Asian American women kicking absolute ass.
KAYLA: And they're also like, everyone on the show is either a genius or super strong. So, everyone that's represented can see themselves in someone that's doing something really important.
SARAH: Exactly, and the character Daisy Johnson who's played by Chloe Bennet, she's half Chinese, she was also briefly a pop star in China.
KAYLA: For real.
SARAH: But she started out as this hacker girl and is now, between her and Clark Gregg who plays Colson, they are the heart of that show, they're the main characters. Which, fun fact, Colson is going to be in Captain Marvel.
KAYLA: Captain Marvel?
SARAH: The new, the Captain Marvel movie, it's coming out next year. I think it takes place in the past, I think that's why Colson is in it.
KAYLA: Marvel needs to chill out.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Hot take.
SARAH: Shhh. Also, another great show Brooklyn Nine-Nine. They've got some diversity up in there.
KAYLA: There's a bi.
SARAH: And Rosa is bi, and she's Latina, and she's a badass and she rides a motorcycle.
KAYLA: I wanna die.
SARAH: (laughs) Anyway, what are we getting at?
KAYLA: Nothing, we're not getting at anything.
SARAH: The thing we’re getting at is that representation is important and Brooklyn Nine-Nine, they just made Rosa bi and it was great. Especially because bi people, they get shit representation.
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: And a lot of the representation you see is just white gay boys being flamboyant –
KAYLA: Or really over-sexualized
SARAH: Or really over-sexualized, women specifically. Which, that was one of my concerns in writing Bloom, was that one of the characters is – This is kind of a spoiler, whatever. One of the characters is bi, but she's also very obsessed with boys. And I didn't want to make it seem like she was very sexual, because she was bi.
KAYLA: The reason that's actually given in the show is she's overly sexual because she's overcompensating, so no one realizes she's bi.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which is slightly less problematic, I guess.
SARAH: It’s not – Because I wanted to have the representation of a bi character, but I also needed a foil to the main character, because that's what she serves as. Because the main character is like, what the fuck? No. And then she's like, duet with everyone. And so, I'm just concerned, I'm afraid. But there is a bi person on our –
KAYLA: We have our several bi people in positions of power on the show, and they've not said anything.
SARAH: They've not said anything.
KAYLA: They've not said they're offended.
SARAH: I'm just concerned about it still because I'm like, I don't want it to come across as though I'm saying that bi people are super sexual by virtue of being bi, you know?
KAYLA: I don't think it comes across that way.
SARAH: I hope not, that’s not what I mean.
KAYLA: No, it not.
SARAH: It not.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Anyway, so basically, bi people are starting to take steps to get more representation in the media, but ace people still get basically squat. Which is a lot of the reason why I wrote this.
KAYLA: And I'm directing it, because I decided I wanted to die this semester.
SARAH: You know what else?
KAYLA: What else? We’re literally – Me and Sarah are just lying in my bed.
SARAH: We're literally lying in bed.
KAYLA: Not even sitting up today, we are not doing – We’re not.
(30:00)
SARAH: It's 11 o'clock at night, I still have work to do. I have work at 7AM in the morning.
KAYLA: Shhh. AM in the morning is redundant.
SARAH: Life is redundant.
KAYLA: I know.
SARAH: Interesting. But a thing that I sort of feel guilty about is that – Okay, so you know how like, in stuff –
KAYLA: Yeah, I do.
SARAH: (laughs). Some stuff is written in a way that's colorblind, so anyone can get cast as any character.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And on one hand, that's good because then anyone can get cast as any character. On the other hand, though, will that really work? Because if they're faced with a white person and a Black person who both do a good job – like, listen, we come from a racist country.
KAYLA: I don't know what you're getting at. Why do you feel guilty about this?
SARAH: We're getting there.
KAYLA: God, this is a lot.
SARAH: Okay. So, I don't remember who it was, I think it was Sterling K. Brown maybe, who was saying how he's benefited a lot in his life from colorblind casting, because he's been able to get parts, not necessarily because he's Black, but in spite of the fact that he's Black, he gets it because they didn't have a race in mind when writing the character.
KAYLA: Shonda Rhimes apparently, casts colorblind, which is great, I guess, because a lot of her shows have a lot of diversity. But it's also like, it's one thing to cast colorblind, where it's another thing to purposely cast people of color.
SARAH: Well, yeah, this was the next part of what I was saying.
KAYLA: If you cast colorblind then you're not putting anyone's culture into it. You're just like, there's a Black person in there, but they won't have any Black backstory.
SARAH: Exactly, and that can be added.
KAYLA: But will it?
SARAH: And so, then he was saying, there's more benefit in having roles that are written for a Black man, because then that person gets put into that as a Black person, not just as any generic person. And so, I feel guilty because in the screenplay I'm writing, I don't specify the races of anyone. I will be fine with any of those characters being of any race, although maybe not – so here's the thing, I always feel like all my villains have to be white. Because I'm afraid that in a story where not all of my characters are of minority races, I'm afraid that if I make the bad guy not white, it'll be racist.
KAYLA: From what I know about your villain, he does sound like an old white guy to me.
SARAH: Oh, yeah, he's totally an old white guy.
KAYLA: A Black man wouldn't do such. a thing.
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: Yeah, I don’t mean that. Just don’t listen to me.
SARAH: But also, when I think about it, I'm like hmm, I think maybe the best friend character - If I were to be like, alright, if only one of these characters is not white, who would it be? And I know who it would be. But that's stupid because then it's like, then why didn't you write this character in a way that makes them not white.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And then I feel guilty because I'm like, well, maybe I should have written this in a way that race is a thing, but also –
KAYLA: Also, you're white. Could you effectively write someone's culture and background and ethnicity into the script, when you're so white?
SARAH: It's also science fiction and takes place in the future. So, who the fuck knows?
KAYLA: In the future there won't – If you go far enough in the future, we're all going to be mixed by that point.
SARAH: True. It's not that far in the future, though. It's a couple generations in the future. But also, listen, I don't know and I just feel guilty about –
KAYLA: But listen, I don't know.
SARAH: These are my 11:30 at night ramblings about how I feel guilty.
KAYLA: These are my ramblings about my hair’s really –
SARAH: These are my 11:30 at night ramblings about white guilt.
KAYLA: I was going to say my hair's really frizzy because it rained. And you know –
SARAH: This is a quality podcast.
KAYLA: Why does anyone listen to this?
SARAH: Once again, I'm sorry.
KAYLA: They wrote us nice emails last week and this is how we repay them.
SARAH: This is what they get.
KAYLA: This is what they get for their troubles?
SARAH: I hope we've been entertaining you this week.
KAYLA: I'm hungry. Oh, no.
SARAH: Okay, I think maybe we need to call it quits.
KAYLA: I'm crying because I'm so tired right now. Like there's water coming out my eyes.
SARAH: The moral of the story is representation is important.
KAYLA: Watch our live stream.
SARAH: I'm sorry about colorblind casting.
KAYLA: Moral of the story, we want representation, but we aren't good at giving it when it's not about us –
SARAH: Everything’s about us.
KAYLA: Because we're only human, and we're white and we're just 20. I want to start crying.
SARAH: Yeah, but wait, it is funny because in our show, I couldn't specify anyone's race because we have very limited people to work with.
KAYLA: Yeah, there's people that are related that are not the same race.
SARAH: Well, it's like Hamilton, that's I was looking at.
KAYLA: That's true.
SARAH: So, there is a brother and sister, and the sister is Indian, and the brother is white and their aunt is white too.
KAYLA: The aunt and the brother look like they could be related, and the sister is out there being not of the same race.
SARAH: Out there being Indian. I was looking at it, I was like, Hamilton, is that you? Because if you look at the Schuyler sisters in Hamilton, they're just doing what they want.
KAYLA: We out here.
SARAH: We out here. Oh, one more thing.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: In Agents of SHIELD –
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: The character of Melinda May was originally supposed to have the last name of Rice.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: But then they cast Ming-Na Wen and they were like, that's racist and they changed it.
KAYLA: You can't do that.
SARAH: But I think it's also good because in terms of Marvel TV, okay, yeah, it's headed by a bunch of white guys. But this showrunners on the show, it's Jed Whedon, who is a white guy and Maurissa Tancharoen, she's Asian American, I don't remember exactly where her family is from. So, there's an Asian American woman, who’s an executive producer, who's a showrunner on the show. And that's, I think, very important and the fact that it's part of the reason why this show has such good representation.
KAYLA: So, I recently binged a Netflix documentary about a girl's prison/reform facility. Basically, they put girls in there, and then they have them go to school, and do therapy and like, programs or whatever to actually get better, not just throw them in prison and leave them there. It's actually a good part of our legal system.
SARAH: Yay.
KAYLA: It's about an all-girls prison, though. So, it deals with some girls’ issues and whatever. But then when I was looking at the credits and the lead executive producers were all men. And then you got later and some of the executive producers are women and I was like; what?
SARAH: Yeah, and that's part of the thing about being a film major. For me, it's like, I look at my classes and it’s mostly white people.
KAYLA: That just like also our university.
SARAH: It’s also – I mean, our university is good.
KAYLA: It's diverse, but I never see people that aren't white.
SARAH: It's our majors.
KAYLA: Yeah, if you look at our statistics overall at the university, it's diverse-ish.
SARAH: Except there are no Black people at the school. It's like 4%, Black people.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true.
SARAH: Which statistically, the ratio is wildly off.
KAYLA: But in my majors, it's just a bunch of white girls.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I hate them.
SARAH: Yeah, I mean, it also depends on your major because a lot of –
KAYLA: Where are they all? What majors?
SARAH: A lot of non-white people, especially people that are of Asian, be that East Asian or Indian descent come from families who value careers that are guaranteed to make you succeed. So like, engineering –
KAYLA: I guess we do know a few of them.
SARAH: Like STEM stuff.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true.
SARAH: Like if you think about our friend is in the biomedical engineering program, and all her all of her friends are not white, that are in the program.
KAYLA: That's true. That's where they all were hiding, away from me in the sciences and the maths.
SARAH: So, as people who are in the liberal arts, we have a lot more white people. That's also partially, I believe because we've got that white privilege, which means that we come from families who basically, we can afford to go – Okay, I'm going to Los Angeles this summer to do an internship, I'm not getting paid squat, I'm going to have to pay for rent in Los Angeles. I'm subletting my room here, but I will not get full rent. So, I'll be paying one and a half rents, and I'm not going to be getting paid at all in Los Angeles.
The reason I can do that is because I come from a background of privilege, and my family can pay for that. We wouldn't be able to pay for that for the rest of my life, but for short term, my family can pay for that. And of other people, some other people also just within my major who I've talked to, they can't. If they can't get an internship that pays, or if they can't figure out something that pays, they can't go to Los Angeles.
KAYLA: And then that means they're not going to get ahead in their career.
SARAH: Exactly, and so part of it, I believe at least part of the reason there are so many white people in my major is that, it is a career path that has a lot of risk. And so, you have to come from a position of privilege or just be really brave and really passionate to go into this, with the knowledge that it may be a long time before you see any money.
(40:00)
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true. It’s like my career path isn't as risky, but I do know that if I can't get a job right out of college, I can go live with my parents for a while. My sister did that, and I can do whatever and my parents will financially back me for a while. But if I didn't know that, I don't know.
SARAH: Yeah, so my classes are mostly white people. I’m not in any classes that don't have any non-white people. But it's usually two or three, it's not that many. To be fair, my classes are smaller, they're not big classes.
KAYLA: I just can imagine – There was a campaign years ago, Being Black at Michigan.
SARAH: Did you see that thing that was called Being Not-Rich at Michigan?
KAYLA: Yeah, that was really good.
SARAH: It's this this huge document that people can contribute to where it's basically how to survive at our university if you're not rich, and resources. Because there are a lot – I don't remember where I saw this statistic but at our university, 10% of the students are in the top 1% of the country.
KAYLA: Yeah, I believe it.
SARAH: So, that's woo-hoo, and sometimes you meet people and you can just tell you're like, wow, they're rich.
KAYLA: Well yeah, because we've met people here, their parents have like, written Mrs. Doubtfire, or invented this really famous candy, so you meet people – Or Madonna's daughter or Steve Carell's daughter.
SARAH: She doesn't go here, she toured here.
KAYLA: She's accepted though, she might go here.
SARAH: True
KAYLA: But yeah, I think that's a thing with internships too is you need internships to get ahead at this point. But if you can't afford an unpaid one, then you're already two steps behind everyone else.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: It's not even your fault, it's just because you're not that well off.
SARAH: It's stupid, but also because this school is so fucking expensive.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's just you're being put at a disadvantage for something that's not your fault. And it's going to keep you disadvantaged. So, it's like the American Dream doesn't even exist anymore, because you can't move up.
SARAH: I was also watching a video about –
KAYLA: Where is this going?
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: I thought this was going to be shorter than most of them and now it's probably going to be longer.
KAYLA: It's going to be long.
SARAH: We've gotten so off topic. I was watching a video semi-recently about basically the pipeline of colleges. If you go to a really expensive college, even if you're from a poor background, you're more likely to move up. But if you went to a less expensive college, you're less likely to move up. And if you're rich and you went to a less expensive college, you're still more likely to move up. So, even if you went to the same college as someone, your background really determines where you end up.
KAYLA: It sucks.
SARAH: Yeah, it's stupid.
KAYLA: It isn't your fault because you could be 10 times smarter than them, and have way more talent and just like – It sucks, dude.
SARAH: Yeah, it's just kind of fucked. Also, this is what I was trying to get at when we got really distracted. So, my major is mostly white people and I always thought, I feel like it's a pretty even split gender-wise. But then, I'm in a production class this semester and we're in groups of 7 for our productions. I'm the only girl in my group.
KAYLA: That's the thing too, there might be an even split but I'd be willing to bet most of the women are on the creative side, not the leadership side.
SARAH: They're not in production. Because even shows like Agents of SHIELD that have really diverse casts, if you look at the crew, it's a bunch of white guys. Because there's just nobody in Hollywood who isn't a white guy. (laughs)
It’s exclusively white guys in Hollywood.
KAYLA: It's not like, I don't know, the biggest deal ever but our production team for our musical, it's all women or non-binary people except for one.
SARAH: Yeah, which is weird because theater is seen as this feminine thing, but then also – Sorry, my brain is everywhere. Okay, because in my class, I'm in a group where I'm the only girl and there's one group that has no girls at all. And then the other two, it's a roughly even split. But also, if you look at movies from the past, even more "feminine positions" - I might have said this before, whatever, I'm saying it again, like, in a previous episode. But even the "more feminine positions" like hair and makeup and costumes –
KAYLA: It’s always dudes.
SARAH: It might be women primarily doing the work, but it's often a man who's the head.
KAYLA: Yeah, every time I watch a video and they're like; we brought in this celebrity hairstylist or celebrity makeup artist, it's always a dude and I'm like, why?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Obviously, it's nothing wrong with it but, you know –
SARAH: But also like, why?
KAYLA: We did this thing in my psych class today, where we were given a scenario. We were given this one fake country, would you rather a male president be elected or a female one? And it is basically supposed to be, with different scenarios you are more likely to pick a male or a female.
SARAH: Oh man, I hate it.
KAYLA: But I was like, here's the tea, I trust females way more in any situation, I don't care if this country is in war or just having an internal conflict, that’s the conditions. I was like, just women for both.
SARAH: Well, it's like the head of my film department brings in people who are Hollywood people, and then they bring them in and they have talks and stuff, whatever. A couple of weeks ago there was a guy who came, and he was a straight white guy and he works on late-night shows. And someone asked him about the Time's Up and the Me Too movement because he said something about – Have I said this before? I don't know, I lose track of who I said to what.
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: (laughs) What I said to who. But he was basically saying that a lot of the things that comedian writers, comedy writers find funny, is stuff that is really offensive.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so, stuff that’s said, in the writer’s room is stuff that you wouldn't say outside of the writer’s room. And so, someone was basically like; do you think that [with] the Time's Up and the Me Too movement and all that stuff, what's okay to say in the writer’s room is going to change? And he was like; probably. But he also was like; well, they're still going to find things that are offensive funny, it just depends on who you are about, whether or not you find it offensive.
And I was like, that doesn't mean you should say them but anyway – And so, he was like, I mean, different writers’ rooms will have a different idea of what offensive is, and that that often depends on the makeup of that writer writers’ room, what they find funny will depend on who's in there. And he was saying that on one thing he did, the writer’s room was him and a bunch of gay guys, and he was the only straight guy in the room. And so he said, that experience was interesting for him because the norm and the standard was the gay guys, and so he felt like the outsider in that situation.
But also, I was thinking, because basically what this girl asking the question was trying to get at was, she was like; the people who run the show are the people who decide what's offensive, and that's straight white guys. So, is that going to change because maybe straight white guys shouldn't be running the show anymore? And he sort of didn't – His answer was sort of good but also sort of problematic.
KAYLA: But also, he probably didn't even know what she's talking about, because to him, that’s who he, whatever. You know?
SARAH: Yeah. I don't know, we've gone on for a really long time and also, we got so off-topic. Kayla, what's our poll?
KAYLA: When thinking about the media you consume, how many canon ace characters can you think of; 0,1-3 –
SARAH: No, 0, 1, 2-3, 4 or more. Hell yeah, nice. Okay.
KAYLA: Tight.
SARAH: We’re really sorry for the content of this.
KAYLA: I’m not.
SARAH: I’m sorry.
KAYLA: I deserve a break.
SARAH: But you know why I think I’m sorry? It’s because I’m a woman and I’m conditioned to apologize for everything.
KAYLA: I think I’m not sorry because I deserve self-love. (laughs)
SARAH: Speaking of things we deserve –
KAYLA: (yells) Money! (laughs)
SARAH: No, that wasn’t it. (laughs)
KAYLA: Your money. (laughs)
SARAH: That is not where I was going to go. I was – Kayla, calm down.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: I was going to jump to the fact that we’re very sorry this week’s [episode] is super late, we won’t be having an episode next week –
KAYLA: Fuck you’re right.
SARAH: Partially because you know, hell, because of the show this weekend, and also because Sunday is Easter –
KAYLA: We’re sorry.
SARAH: And we are white people who are –
Kc: Post-Catholic –
SARAH: That’s so accurate.
KAYLA: That we’re post-Catholic?
SARAH: We’re post-Catholic.
KAYLA: We are some post-Catholic ladies.
SARAH: (laughs) Anyway –
KAYLA: Ew. I want to die.
SARAH: We’re not getting into this.
KAYLA: (laughs) Another time –
SARAH: Basically, our families celebrate Easter, so we will be –
KAYLA: I just want some Cadbury eggs, that’s my Easter. Jesus came back from the dead to bring us Cadbury eggs. Came out of that tomb and he was like, ayyy, just started throwing them.
SARAH: Came out of the womb, came out of the tomb.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: Anyway, we won’t be having an episode next week, sorry.
KAYLA: I will be having a Cadbury egg.
SARAH: Shhh. Hopefully before next week or before the next episode, I’ll figure out the audio deal. I’m sorry, I don’t understand. I was listening to last week’s episode and I was like yeah, the quality of my phone really is worse.
KAYLA: Oops.
SARAH: But there’s only so much we can do. Anyway, that was our poll, whatever. You can find that poll –
BOTH: (laugh)
KAYLA: Who the fuck?
SARAH: On our Twitter @soundsfakepod. You can also find us on Tumblr, soundsfakepod.gmail – Nooo.
KAYLA: What?
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: I’m so sorry, we’re delirious. soundsfakepod.tumblr.com, you can email us at soundsfakepod@gmail.com. Oh my God. Kayla, where can they listen?
KAYLA: You can find us on SoundCloud, iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Castbox, play doodle, whatever. Wherever you’re listening right now, that’s where.
SARAH: That’s where.
KAYLA: Also, check in the descriptions, I’ll put a link to our theater group’s Facebook page so you can see when we go live.
SARAH: If you’re interested in watching the live stream, fucking go for it.
KAYLA: It will be this Saturday the 31st at around 7pm.
SARAH: We’re doing the last show. So 7pm Eastern Time, which is 4pm for y’all on the west coast.
KAYLA: And the livestream will live even after it’s over, so you can go back and watch it.
SARAH: True. This is true.
KAYLA: That’s all.
SARAH: We also have Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod.
KAYLA: Because we deserve your money.
SARAH: We have patrons who pay for this bullshit.
KAYLA: And we’re sorry.
SARAH: $5 patrons, we have Jennifer Smart, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Lehen Productions, woo that was fast. Then we have Asritha, who by the way is playing one of the main characters in our show. She’s the one who is the Indian person who is the –
KAYLA: Alright, we have to wake up.
SARAH: Anyway, you can find her on Instagram @asritha_v. We also have Austin Le. Austin, is he still promoting our own thing?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Cool. youcaring.com/michiganquidditch2018. Throw us your dollars. We’re just self-promoting all over the place. Then we have Drew Finney, he gave us a thing to shoutout, his Twitter is @midwest_drew. I too am a Midwest human. Nice to see you, Drew.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: We have another patron, Emma. You can find her on YouTube by looking up Emma T Fink. She was one of the founders of the theatre group that we’re in.
KAYLA: She was yes, that.
SARAH: Cool shit. Thanks for listening to this absolute shitshow. Again, I’m sorry Kayla’s not, um –
KAYLA: I deserve this.
SARAH: I hope you enjoyed it anyway, even though we got wildly off-topic because sometimes hearing people just talk to each other randomly is entertaining.
KAYLA: That’s almost the podcasts I like most are the people who are just sitting talking.
SARAH: Just people who talk to each other.
KAYLA: I feel like I have friends that way.
BOTH: (laugh)
SARAH: Alright, so if you want to feel like you have friends, tune in in two Sundays, or maybe on a Monday, I don’t know. Maybe on a Wednesday.
KAYLA: Maybe never. Maybe we’re done after this.
SARAH: We’re not. For more of us in your ears. Kayla, go. Kayla.
KAYLA: Uhh –
SARAH: Cows.
KAYLA: Take care of them, take care of your cows. Better than we’ve been taking care of ourselves.
SARAH: Drew Finney sent us a picture of a cow; it was nice.
KAYLA: It was gorgeous.
SARAH: Okay, bye.
KAYLA: Bye.